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12:15 AM
I just made it onto the hat leaderboard for Worldbuilding. I think I just need to take down @kingledion, although he has a four-hat lead.
 
12:29 AM
hey there @Green and @HDE226868
 
12:44 AM
@Shalvenay? How long before the abandoned cities become completely buried by nature?
 
@FutureHistorian decades to centuries depending on what part of the city you're dealing with
 
@Shalvenay hi!
 
@Green how're things going?
 
I am referring to major cities that humanity had completely abandoned since the Invasion.
And places like Seattle, Shanghai, New Delhi, New Orleans and Hong Kong that got nuked during the Invasion.
 
@FutureHistorian a downtown is going to take longer to crumble (esp. re: reinforced masonry hi-rise buildings) than a pile of McMansions made of cheap was-wood
 
12:48 AM
So, by 2034, how much of the world’s still-ruined cities are covered in jungle/desert/whatever?
By “cities”, I mean cities proper + urban areas.
Aka: the metropolitan areas.
So, for example, Seattle.
How much of it would still be recognisable by 2034, especially if the city is a nuclear wasteland?
 
most of the heavy masonry structures (downtown stuff, institutional buildings) would still be recognizable
most of the suburbs would be pretty gonzo
or at least decrepit
 
So, is the Space Needle still sort of there?
Even with the fighting from the Invasion and nuclear strikes following the loss of Seattle?
 
@Shalvenay I got my idea of a person's dark side incorporated into the Story-Go-Round. Only now a person's dark side gives them super powers.
 
@FutureHistorian if it didn't get nuked, yeah, it'd probably stay around for a while
 
That makes sense.
Then again, it was nukes by a Trident II SLBM.
So.......
 
12:53 AM
@Green ah. things are alright here. hoping @James swings around sometime or the other :) want to bounce some of my thoughts re: what elves would do for a blademetal if they couldn't use iron off of him
 
@Shalvenay he'd be a good one to ask.
@James you are wanted in chat.
 
Basically, a Trident II SLBM can carry 8 to 12 W88 (475 kt) or W76 (100 kt) warheads.
For the former, that is the equivalent of 5.7 Mt of combined TNT equivalent for all the MIRVs at once.
1.2 Mt if you want the latter warhead design and the estimates assume 12 MIRVs.
So, @Shalvenay? Can the Space Needle survive 12 475 kt nukes to the city?
Or not really?
 
@FutureHistorian I'd say not so much if they were aimed anywhere near the city center
 
Well, they were spread out over the city, and two of them landed near the Space Needle, though (thankfully) not ON it.
 
@FutureHistorian "close only counts with horseshoes, hand grenades, and H-bombs" xD
 
12:58 AM
However, I do want to know: if the fireballs will not destroy the Space Needle, would the thermal blast or shockwave do it?
 
@FutureHistorian shockwave
 
Because I just want to know if by 2034, Seattle would still be recognisable to someone from before the Invasion.
Say.....both of us.
So, other than robotic wrecks, dead bodies, tank leftovers or radioactive fallout, could a 2017 person recognise this Seattle in 2034?
 
...somewhat? the big slabs of pavement might be a clue?
 
What about any destroyed buildings?
 
(aka what's left of the Boeing factories)
 
1:02 AM
Could someone recognise the wreck of the Space Needle or not?
 
...maybe
I'd lean towards no though
 
Oh. :(
@Shalvenay? How long would it take for the GPI to clear the radiation from ALL of China's nuked coastline?
Or from Seattle? Or New Orleans? Or Boston? Or Manchester? Or New Delhi?
Anyone have any ideas on how long it would take to artificially clean up radioactive fallout?
And I mean like: try to use HazMat teams to clear entire cities of radioactive fallout somehow.
@FerretCivilization? Since @Shalvenay is taking forever, any ideas on how long it would take for the GPI to clean up the cities that got nuked from radioactive fallout?
 
1:29 AM
hey there @Vylix
 
hi @Shalvenay
 
how're things going?
 
great! Tried a DnD session with my friends and I'm glad they like it.
I'm gonna DM-ing them for the next month :D
 
cool! which edition, and are you running published material or homebrewed stuff?
 
my campaign will be using Phandelver's maps, but with my own stories
going to create personal quests for my PCs
 
1:32 AM
5th ed?
 
yep
 
coolio
 
and I'm really shocked when things are not the same with my experience with Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter :o
especially the prepared spell Wizard thingy
 
going to be running something for a new guy over here as soon as I can get a few divots on their character sheet straightened out
 
nice!
the only thing I need to work on is my in-character voicing and rules
 
1:42 AM
@Vylix if you want to try your hand at playing D&D via the Internet, I'd be more than happy to let you have a shot at something sometime :)
 
@Shalvenay sure! What platform you use? We use roll20 here :)
 
@Vylix I'm on roll20 as well as doing play by chat via Discord
 
Nice! Might be able to join after I finished my campaign preparation :)
 
@Vylix just let me know when, I have a pretty quiet holiday season this year :)
do you have any thoughts on what you'd want to see/play btw?
 
ol' fantasy theme
forgotten realms or any similar
I know you can use 5e to create sci-fi adventure, but I'm not into it, although I do think it's cool!
 
1:47 AM
that's not a problem :) one more thing: are you at all an arachnophobe?
 
naaaaah
squashing them every now and then
I played Dota, and I never hear/see dota player complaints about Broodmother, the spider hero XD
 
@Vylix hehehe :) that actually sounds like a cool inclusion
also, do you prefer text or voice?
 
well, actually there are some with arachnophobia (after a quick google), but glad they're not making any complaint
text
please
I'm not sure if you can understand my speaking english :(
 
@Vylix accent/dialect issue?
 
might be, but I tend to address it as "brain shutdown" and confidence issue
 
1:53 AM
@Vylix ah.
 
non-native english user :(
 
@Vylix yeah, even native English speakers sometimes have trouble understanding each other :P get someone from the far north of Scotland and the middle of rural Tennessee together :P
 
lol
 
and maybe add an Aussie in the mix too
 
@Shalvenay? How long can you say that it would take to clear radioactive fallout from the nuked cities?
 
1:54 AM
@FutureHistorian the major debris will take months to years. it's going to be far more nightmarish to get all of it though
some of the radioisotopes in fallout are rather...environmentally mobile
and you also have neutron activated things to worry about
 
@Shalvenay that's why I love learning sign language :)
I feel more confident when I can get the other party acknowledge my message without my voice :P
 
By 2034, is that process done or still not even close?
 
@Shalvenay can I add you in Discord?
 
@FutureHistorian probably not even close
@Vylix yeah. I shouldn't be too hard to find there :)
 
2:10 AM
your digit tags?
ok
send :)
 
got it :)
 
are you part of any DnD community in Discord?
 
@Vylix a couple of minor ones ;) the largest one I'm in is the unofficial RPG.SE Discord actually haha. (feel free to hang out in RPG.SE chat btw)
 
ah sure! I'm lurking there for the few past days trying to confirm rules anyway
 
@Vylix just sent you an invite :)
 
2:48 AM
0
Q: Is this Santa question on-topic?

VylixSanta's broke. How much does it cost for someone else to be Santa? I fail to understand what's worldbuilding in it. There could be some worldbuilding, but I just can't understand. It seems like a question that we regularly close as "story-based" or "off-topic". (I think this is relevant) The au...

 
3:00 AM
@HDE226868 I can't be overtaken
Now that I know you can get a hat for answering your own question.....bwahahaha
 
hey there @kingledion and @HDE226868
 
hello
 
how're things going?
 
@kingledion I got something like 9 hats this past UTC day. My pace is good.
 
At 9 hats per day, I won't last long
I got that gold badge one though, I was lucky, Green asked the T.Rex question two weeks ago but I got the gold badge like an hour after winterbash started
 
3:04 AM
@kingledion I managed to get the goldbadger one this year even though my blockbuster answer missed it by a day or two
(got it the hard way: First Posts Steward off on EE.SE)
 
First Posts? Holy smokes!
Does anyone even have that on WB? Lemme check
Oh wow, Hohmannfan and Bowlturner both do
 
@kingledion it's my 2nd Steward badge on that site and I've only been an intermittently active reviewer there
the Close Vote queue on EE.SE is absurd
like SO levels
 
They must get a lot of desperate homework questions
You know, I'm a statistician so I figured I'd go contribute to CrossValidated
Turns out I'm an idiot or something, because I can't answer anything
 
@kingledion no kidding, and they also get a lot of "clueless noob" questions outside the homework space
 
Thats why I post here where my opinion is worth something
 
3:07 AM
@kingledion hahaha, all the low hanging fruit's already been plucked and all that's left are the real brain-busters? :P
 
Yeah, exactly
 
I figure reviewers don't get enough attention for reviewing. . . It's not the most glamorous or public activity.
 
that's my 3rd Steward, and I'm getting close to #s 4 and 5 actually
(although not close enough for another hat)
 
I still don't even have the one for close votes here on WB
I better step up my game
 
so, what sorts of worlds do you build if I may ask @kingledion?
 
3:16 AM
Well, I've had a couple ideas floating around for a long time. I have a standard fare Joseph Cambell heroic seeker fantasy story that I really aught to have published by now; I have a bronze age meets jungle civilization story that reeks of Conan; and I have a post singularity humans in space story.
 
@kingledion ah. I tend to do fantasy stuff myself, although I'll often play around with little thought experiments too, often of the worlds-collide variety
 
I've been working the space story the most recently, see the introduction to this question here: worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/100613/…
 
had to set my most-fleshed-out campaign world so far aside though due to issues with worldbuilding legal systems
that's hard stuff to deal with, expecially if stuff like that ties into the storyline in a way that's not entirely closed-ended
and doubly hard if you are working from a common-law mindset as us US folk are prone to do
considering how many interlocking bits our legal system has in it
 
Woof, I don't worry about that at all
 
imagine having to file something that's a cross between a Daubert motion in limine and a Brady discovery request because you have evidence the prosecutor is hiding evidence that not only exculpates the defendant, but impeaches the testimony of one of their "scientific experts"
and that's just talking "core due process type stuff"
you can really get into the weeds with tricky appellate-level legal interpretation stuff
look at Cyan v. Beaver County Employee Retirement Fund before SCOTUS for instance
where Congress' sloppy patch jobs left two justices (Alito and Gorsuch) using the term "gibberish" in oral argument to describe the codified results
"You had ONE JOB, Congress. ONE! FREAKING! JOB!"
 
3:25 AM
@Shalvenay depends. Are the people the customers or the product?
 
@JourneymanGeek in response to? xD
 
Congress having one job ;p
 
posted on December 22, 2017 by Secespitus

“Dead trees in the Dark Forest” by Joan SorollaI have been running in these fields for a few hours at this point already. I cannot do this much longer. My legs will not last for long. It is night already and this means the real danger awakes while I am running around, following a damn bird. I am doomed if I do not find my way out of here. And I have to do it fast. My mind is still fuzzy. I am

3
 
@JourneymanGeek :P
 
cause american politics - or any other feels like its rarely about the will of the people
 
3:27 AM
@JourneymanGeek this isn't even politics at hand. this is basic statutory drafting they failed at.
 
we've got corporations buying members of representitive bodies, nearly feudalistic dynasties, ...
@Shalvenay sadly the ability to ELIF what they sign is not a prerequisite for being a politician
and that would be a good thing
 
they were trying to do what basically amounts to a relatively uncontroversial bugfix to a long-standing piece of securities law, and made a total hash of the job.
 
Typical
 
introduced as many bugs as they fixed, as SCOTUS' frustration in the oral arguments for Cyan shows
 
maybe someone should write a system of laws by version control system....
and whoever writes something bad can be blamed properly
 
3:31 AM
@JourneymanGeek YES!
heck, just using diff and patch properly would be a massive improvement
never mind having a VCS and some code review tools to go with it
 
and you could basically suggest improvements...
Government by Git!
3
 
it stuns me that we have a better workflow at work for code review than what goes on in Congress when they mark up bills :P
 
well...
modern government kinda grew organically
like foot mould
 
that is very true
 
and programmes and techie types are often people who solve problems
Even if the solution is copying chunks of code off SO :p
now the problem is you'd invariably have people trying to spam your VCS...
like that FCC debacle
 
3:35 AM
@JourneymanGeek yeah. we know how to deal with robots though :P and I'm not even talking about public pull requests here, just internal-to-Congress stuff
writing patches out longhand in the year 2017 AD when diff and patch have been part of POSIX for how long?!
 
@Shalvenay though it makes sense to have the repos public
 
@JourneymanGeek aye
of course :)
 
People need to see the laws as they're drafted, and it allows for a certain amount of visibility and data
 
@JourneymanGeek aye
even without public PRs, it'd be cool to see Congress @ work in near-real-time
 
"work"
;p
 
3:39 AM
and none of this is far-fetched or futuristic
 
nope
problem is really process + things work fine for the congresscritters and lobbyists
might actually work in smaller countries with less effort
 
Git (or Hg for that matter) + Markdown or reStructuredText for the actual syntax they're using + a good CR tool (such as Atlassian FishEye/Crucible)
 
yup
didn't they have handwritten changes on that tax bill?
 
@JourneymanGeek yah
 
 
7 hours later…
11:12 AM
@JoeBloggs My story involving the bonegrass is published if you are interested in reading it.
 
 
1 hour later…
12:13 PM
Gentlemen?
I just realised something.
Has anyone ever played Warhammer 40k?
Because I am starting to feel that the Imperium of Man may be on its last legs.
Especially since, the Imperium is struggling to maintain control, and the only reason it still stands is inertia, millennia of cultural evolution and brutal means of repression.
So, is the Imperium of Man doomed to fail?
Or can it restore control over the slowly decaying interstellar empire it gave birth to?
 
@FutureHistorian if you are talking about the W40K imperium of man then you are right
 
I am talking about the Warhammer 40k Imperium of Man.
@dot_Sp0T? How long before the Imperium of Man finally collapses anyway?
Either internally or externally?
 
Be like for however long the creators want to keep milking money out of them.
 
Pretty much what Ferret said. The W40K universes' humans are on the brink of collapse for millenia now, by design and lore. That's why we've got so many different space-marines, as well as the Imperial Troups, etc.
@kingledion do you think I could use Americum instead or in addition to Radium? e.g. creating different heatet units of the same size so we have different energy outputs
 
12:31 PM
@FerretCivilization? Are you telling me they should have collapsed by now (realistically)?
Hmmmmm.
I have an idea.
 
Probably would not have gotten that big in the first place realistically.
 
What would happen to humanity once the Imperium of Man RIPed out?
Also, is there a way to make an interstellar “empire” without relying on FTL-anything?
@FerretCivilization? Remember how I said that the Visitors have the capacity to use genetic engineering to change their own genome, as well as use cybernetics and make whole brain emulations?
Well, what if the Visitors could also use radical life extension as well?
As in: there are probably a few multi-system interstellar nations in their species, in addition to the various independent planets, systems and self-sustaining military spacecraft.
 
First part, whatever the creators want to happen if they do RIP. Second part, probably be more conservative, ha.
 
@FerretCivilization? Would radical life extension help as a stabilising factor?
Or being post-biological altogether?
 
Maybe as a stepping stone yeah.
 
 
1 hour later…
1:44 PM
@dot_Sp0T Americium has a higher elemental number than Uranium. You can't make americium except in a nuclear reactor. The reason I picked the elements I did was because they are natural products of the Uranium or Thorium decay chains, that is, you can find them in nature.
 
@FerretCivilization? Any ideas on how the EXNET could be different from its pre-Invasion equivalent?
Aka: the DPRK/North Korean Internet?
 
Don't know, could go in any direction.
 
2:10 PM
Actually, no.
EXNET = MILNET on steroids.
But how would the propaganda work?
North Korean Internet on steroids or back to radio and tellies we go?
 
All of it would be used, posters too.
 
I know.
Wait, what?!
Global version of North Korean Internet is a thing by 2034?
 
If you want, ha.
 
Because I want to know: how long to fix the Internet (while keeping access limited)?
@FerretCivilization? How long to fix the Internet cables anyway?
Especially if they were damaged during the Invasion?
Speaking of which, by 2034, which cities that were left abandoned or were nuked could you say would still be recognisable?
 
Depends on the amount of damaged line. 3-4 weeks per a few hundred miles if they just want to lay new cables down.
 
2:17 PM
That makes sense.
What about the cities that were left to rot?
How recognisable would any of them be by 2034 (including the ones that were nuked)?
 
Depends on the area.
Though I would say that most cities would still be recognizable with only that amount of time passing.
 
Would Dubai still be recognisable, just as an example?
Because I wonder if it would still be recognisable and not buried under sand.
Well?
Which cities would be difficult to recognise if they were abandoned?
Ten years after the Invasion.
I mean.
 
The sand would not bury it, at most the street level would be covered, I'd be more worried about that ocean front property. Though that would vary if it was a bad storm year or not. Overall most their modern structures would be mostly okay.
 
So, the Burj Khalifa would still stand, assuming the building was not destroyed in the fighting during the Invasion?
 
Most the buildings would still be standing if they were not effected by fighting.
 
2:29 PM
That makes sense.
I wonder how the ruins of Dubai would look like from the Burj Khalifa if it was still standing.
 
Probably like the ruins of any of the other Middle Eastern cities destroyed today in fighting from helicopter.
 
So, like this:
Or like this:
@FerretCivilization? Which one of those is it?
 
Unless the entire desert manages to gain a few measurements in sand I doubt the dunes would get that high throughout the city.
 
@FerretCivilization? So, the second one is closer to reality?
 
Probably.
 
2:35 PM
That makes sense.
What about Seattle by comparison?
Plants growing everywhere, despite deadly radiation?
Or still no buildings having plants grow inside them?
@FerretCivilization? Would Seattle have any plants growing in those buildings yet or still no because radiation from the nuclear strike?
 
@kingledion yeah. But the train-world is an extrapolation of earth, thus elements created in a reactor are fine. I was mostly asking if my reasoning makes sense at all
 
Grasses would probably be thriving in the cracks of the concrete in lower levels. Though this is still a short time frame. Ocean front, hot cold seasons, snow. It would be starting to take a toll.
 
So, would a 2017 person recognise it?
And what about the radiation?
 
Well yeah a person would still be able to recognize it if they knew the place.
And radiation would really only mess up biological life. That nuclear explosion might take a chunk out of the city.
 
Correction: 8, per the Trident II SLBM.
So, how much of the city is gone from the nukes?
Remember: MIRVs.
 
2:43 PM
Does not change the fact that there will be a chunk taken out, so what was corrected.
And here is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolmanskop Kolmanskop,a real place abandoned for half a century to the desert.
 
It is a bigger chunk, though.
;)
 
Never said the size of the chunk, ha.
 
Oh.....
 
Not much of the city would be standing after that though.
 
So, ten years later.....
What does it mean?
 
2:51 PM
It means that not much of the city was standing ten years earlier ten years later.
 
@kingledion actually where did you get the 168W/kg for radium from?
 
So, even worse after that point, hmmmm?
Can you still recognise the city (or what is left of it) or not?
 
Not really worse no.
 
Or is it destroyed beyond recognition?
 
I don't think you are getting the picture of not much of the city is left standing in the... There you go.
 
2:54 PM
Oh.
So, are you saying that none of us would recognise post-apocalyptic Seattle at this point?
gulps
 
Tends to happen when you hit it with up to 96 warheads.
 
I hit it with eight warheads.
All W88 nukes.
Aka: 475 kt of TNT per warhead.
Why, would the USS Nebraska fire all of its SLBMs?
 
Trident-2s, they carry 8-12 warheads.
Now you say W88
 
I know that.
Maximum 12 warheads, 8 due to international treaties.
 
So basic math, 8x12 is 96.
 
2:59 PM
Well, the Trident IIs can carry W88 nukes.
sighs Just how many SLBMs are in a single Ohio-class submarine?
 
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