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Anonymous
4:00 PM
The weirdest part about that was that they went off the site for a really long time...
 
Anonymous
And one day appeared and started asking about me...
 
Anonymous
And ever since I deemed them quite odd. Given I've never interacted with them.
 
Anonymous
@nobody I wonder if that is still up.
 
@Jis12yearsold. That's not nice :(
She is quite unpredictable any mysterious :D
 
Anonymous
Well, it might not be nice. But stalking me isn't nice either.
 
Anonymous
4:09 PM
So, I think my evaluation is justified.
 
Anonymous
I can pull the logs if I must, it is odd.
 
Oh, the oddness I grok
 
Anonymous
You understand her oddness or understand it to be odd that she was stalking me?
 
Anonymous
I don't quite get that sentence.
 
Oh, I understand that its odd.
Grok is a neologism coined by American writer Robert A. Heinlein for his 1961 science fiction novel Stranger in a Strange Land. While the Oxford English Dictionary summarizes the meaning of grok as "to understand intuitively or by empathy, to establish rapport with" and "to empathize or communicate sympathetically (with); also, to experience enjoyment", Heinlein's concept is far more nuanced, with critic Istvan Csicsery-Ronay Jr. observing that "the book's major theme can be seen as an extended definition of the term." The concept of grok garnered significant critical scrutiny in the years after...
 
Anonymous
4:12 PM
Oh right, yeah.
 
Anonymous
The most strange part for me was that: I wasn't active at the time, that meant she read logs.
 
Anonymous
She also read enough logs to know I spoke with forest a lot, hence why she directed her questions towards him.
 
Dosen't sound inconsistant
 
Anonymous
I'd never interacted with her before that, didn't even know who she was at all.
 
Anonymous
And suddenly she was asking about me - I will always find that weird. And deem you a weirdo if you behave like that.
 
Anonymous
4:14 PM
To this day, I still don't know why she was interested. Or even bothered to ask about me at all. I likely will never know.
 
Anonymous
Although I do have some guesses to who they might be...
 
Oh
Kalina is... Kalina...
Can't imagine her being anyone else
 
Anonymous
Well, what I mean is.
 
Anonymous
I think she might know me from another community.
 
Anonymous
4:17 PM
Which is possibly one reason she asked those questions. But I cannot confirm it.
 
Anonymous
But, if she does know me from anothjer commuinity
 
Anonymous
that means she did extensive searching to get the suspicion i was that same person#
 
Anonymous
which makes thbe whole thing even more bizarre
 
Anonymous
With any luck one day she'll come back and explain it :DDD
 
I doubt it :D
 
Anonymous
4:18 PM
ME too, lol.
 
Anonymous
think ive only seen her here once
 
Anonymous
as in, in chat
 
Anonymous
oh my heres rory
 
it's probably been a while, I'd guess :)
 
Anonymous
what is happening
 
4:19 PM
I haven't seen her here in ages
 
Anonymous
this is like a highschool reunion or something
 
Anonymous
:D
 
Anonymous
I can only assume the trashed messages were REALLY bad :D
 
Anonymous
Everyone is appearing >.<
 
I don't think I can see anything like that, am not a mod :)
 
Anonymous
4:21 PM
I believe this is the rory that knows one of my old colleagues quite well or is familiar with them :think:
 
@Jis12yearsold. there's an elder rory, and the other rory and then the international roryhood of rorys.
 
Anonymous
yeah now we need the other rory!
 
Anonymous
MOAR CONFUSION!
 
Rory all the Rories!
 
Anonymous
Yes :D
 
Anonymous
4:29 PM
hah
 
Anonymous
> @J.J So it depends. If your goal is to get CREST qualified, you're probably just easier taking the CRT and don't bother with either CPSA or OSCP
 
Anonymous
That was a while ago..
 
@Jis12yearsold. Man if reading logs is odd... I don't know what I am. A creep?
 
Anonymous
No, the issue isn't so much reading logs.
 
Anonymous
4:35 PM
If that's how that sounded, then forgive me, that isn't a problem at all.
 
Ok thanks, that's a weight off my chest :D
 
Anonymous
What is odd, is reading so many logs that you find someone who I associate with enough that you feel you can ask that person about me and they'd know the answers you're looking for.
 
What happens when I @Rory ?
Who gets the ping?
 
Anonymous
When you throw on the fact that I'd never interacted with Kalina it makes the above statement go from odd to just extremely weird.
 
@Jis12yearsold. the really funny thing is... I don't think any one of us knows anything about her.
 
Anonymous
4:37 PM
Well that adds to the strangeness IMO.
 
Hey I might, I've read enough logs ;)
 
Anyone is entitle to their privacy
 
Anonymous
Right...
 
Anonymous
They are. So am I.
 
@nobody fun fact, although I think it broke at some point, for a while I had a UTF-8 o character to avoid getting mis-pinged for people looking for @RoryAlsop
 
Anonymous
4:37 PM
She went out of her way to ask another user about me. That is also a violation of my privacy.
 
Anonymous
I mean, forest (cleverly) didn't say a lot. But whatever way you spin it, the whole scenario is strange.
 
@Jis12yearsold. in the process, kinda poked a hole in her really good mysteriousness :D
 
Anonymous
@JourneymanGeek Heh, I guess so.
 
Anonymous
I mean, if I read enough of the logs, I can probably come up with some legitimate reasons for her asking. But I have read a few days either side of the multiple times she quizzed forest and I cannot make sense of it.
 
@Jis12yearsold. Sometimes people are just bored.
 
Anonymous
4:40 PM
I don't buy that as being a reason to ask particular questions about people.
 
Well, you can give her the benefit of doubt
 
Anonymous
Especially if you read her other messages...
 
Anonymous
As Journeyman said, she is quite mysterious.
 
Anonymous
I don't put it down to "boredom".
 
Anonymous
I should note: this was all a very long time ago. But I recalled it earlier when you linked a message from her.
 
4:41 PM
Heh, well maybe. I never read the logs with the view of analyzing anyone's behavior so I can't tell
In fact, I think at some point I also read the logs where she asked forest about you, but I don't remember much now
 
@Jis12yearsold. I totally put it down to boredom
 
Anonymous
Who knows :D
 
Anonymous
Doesn't much matter anymore. Still weird though :d
 
Anonymous
im tired
 
Anonymous
and this custom shellcode writing is making my head hurt
 
Anonymous
5:50 PM
Oh man, this is an entire rabbit hole for real.
 
Anonymous
7:14 PM
@EvanCarroll Yes you are awesome.
 
Anonymous
Nice profile picture.
 
Anonymous
Also, don't think I've seen you here before so welcome.
 
Can you believe that whole conversation was removed. Who would have ever thought StackExchange would have a problem with a stand against apartheid.
Anyway. I'm reporting the removal to team@stackexchange.com.
 
Anonymous
Um.
 
Anonymous
Are you talking about the 200 messages from earlier?
 
Anonymous
7:17 PM
Were you involved in that conversation?
 
Yes.
 
Anonymous
Well, I don't know the content so I cannot speak for why it was removed. But, what I will say is that. Palestine is something which sits very close to me and so I am almost always going to suggest that the conversation should not have been not removed. But, I have heard that some of the messages probably were needing a removal. However, all is not something I can support.
 
@EvanCarroll Which one?
 
Anonymous
@forest There's a whole drama about 600 messages or so above, forest. :D
 
@forest the entire conversation from last night was removed, chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/58015074#58015074
 
Anonymous
7:22 PM
:58018454 Oh, now it makes sense...
 
@Jis12yearsold please consider signing the BDS support pledge on GitHub github.com/EvanCarroll/…
 
Oh, AviD wanted it removed?
Anyway, I agree that antisemitism is not on-topic here. However, speaking out against racism and genocide perpetrated by a controversial nation-state is most certainly not antisemitism.
2
 
Anonymous
@EvanCarroll "Consider"? :D
 
Anonymous
I don't think it is something which needs to be considered...
 
Anonymous
@forest +1
 
Anonymous
7:25 PM
@EvanCarroll By the way, I am going to suggest GitHub is not the best place to host this. Given you know, Microsoft.
 
Can someone tl;dr what happened? Did any policy change, or was it merely some messages getting removed?
 
Anonymous
Wouldn't be surprised if this got removed..
 
Anonymous
I would host it elsewhere :)
 
Who said anything whatsoever that was antisemitic? I'm a Jew. I certainly didn't feel like those comments were an attack on me.
@forest we had a great conversation last night, everything was friendly. I got back to my computer about 30 minutes ago and all comments were removed.
 
Anonymous
@forest It seems that Evan is the only person here now who was there last night. Or this morning for me, whatever.
 
7:26 PM
Now I'm writing StackExchange to request an investigation and explanation.
 
Anonymous
But yes, messages were removed from the chat, 200 of them.
 
@EvanCarroll Be careful that it doesn't make them think "wow the DMZ is racist! We gotta close it all down!"
 
@forest Journeyman moved comments to private room, I asked for access thinking he just wanted us to have the conversation in a private room. Turned out it was removed for moderation along with a sec.se mod which turned out be AviD
 
@Jis12yearsold. Forest was also a member to those conversations.
 
Anonymous
@forest Yes, I agree with forest. Please ensure you phrase your email correctly.
 
Anonymous
7:27 PM
@EvanCarroll I see.
 
Yeah I saw that, and he denied access. Usually when comments are moved, they are moved into a read-only room, often called the trashcan. The fact that it's private now as well makes me think that they're going to "investigate it" to see if there's any excuse they can use to ban someone.
That's odd, since I haven't seen AviD active for ages here.
 
Anonymous
I think thats a sticking point...
 
@forest Surprised me too, he didn't give a clear reason for his sudden return
 
Anonymous
He came back precisely because of some of those messages, supposedly.
 
Anonymous
That's what we were told earlier.
 
7:28 PM
> Zionism is by definition the idea that it should be safe for Jews to exist, and in particular in Israel where we have continuously existed for hundreds (thousands) of years.
OK I see where he stands.
 
Anonymous
It'd be really useful if someone scraped the messages huh
 
He just has a personal beef in this.
 
Anonymous
or logged them...
 
@forest Yeah, sucks that instead of logging them, I'd started modifying chat script to prevent deletion
Turns out I hadn't dealt with the case where they were moved to another room
 
I remember the conversation pretty well.
 
Anonymous
7:29 PM
If someone could run a logger and provide access to those logs, I'd be eternally grateful...
 
Anonymous
Perhaps something you can do @nobody :)
 
Anonymous
(in future)
 
Anonymous
I see this happening many times in the future....
 
Anonymous
@forest For the record, did anyone make any sweeping statements about "exterminating" israel
 
No, unless it happened after I left.
 
7:30 PM
I only do some makeshift logging :) Log network requests in developer pane.
 
Nothing we said was antisemitic, but if AviD thinks that Zionism is "the right of Jews to exist", then I can see why he'd be upset at someone wanting to "normalize antizionism", but many people see Zionism as a far-right nationalist movement.
 
Anonymous
@forest Well, that's interesting because that is not what I was led to believe earlier...
 
Anonymous
And this is my problem with the logs going...
 
Anonymous
Because I am now being told to either trust a mod or trust a user.
 
Anonymous
I don't like that...
 
7:32 PM
@AviD if you're going to argue the conversation is not on topic, can you move it to a public channel where we can continue the conversation?
 
7 hours ago, by AviD
as I said, perhaps best to steer clear of calling for extermination of a people (yes that was actually mentioned here).
Who said that?
 
Anonymous
Well, that's my point.
 
Anonymous
WHO said that.
 
Anonymous
This is what I'm so annoyed by.
 
If anyone said that, please let it be known that none of us currently here agree with that.
 
7:32 PM
And there was absolutely no call for an "extermination of a people" that's a total fabrication.
 
@EvanCarroll I think he didn't say that it wasn't on-topic, just that some specific messages needed to go. He said something like "I'm not going to throw out the banhammer. Do what you want".
 
@forest I asked him, he said something like "nobody said it in plain words, but that was their underlying motivation"
 
Anonymous
For the record, I already had the whole debate with Avid on off-topic vs on-topic.
 
Anonymous
We agreed that it was down to the users of the room to dictate what is spoken about (with limits of course).
 
Anonymous
So, he was not restricting the topic of the room... We already went over that in length.
 
7:34 PM
That's absolutely not true. As a Jew. No one said any such thing about Jews. There was a criticism of Israel and that was all.
 
@nobody Who did he say said that? If it was me, I would like to clear my name.
 
Anonymous
They wouldn't say who...
 
Anonymous
Just someone.
 
As I very explicitly do not believe in the extermination of anyone.
Except maybe spooks. I will say that. Fuck spooks.
FBI, DEA, DoD... Feds can rot.
 
Anonymous
^ +1 :D
 
7:37 PM
7 hours ago, by AviD
@nobody literally calling for abolishing Israel, Jews living here is Nazism, Jews getting killed aint no thang, and it is justified anyway. More like that.
Does he think that abolishing Israel as a country implies killing everyone in it?
That's horrific. Many believe that Israel should not exist, but not that Israelis should be killed.
 
Anonymous
It's easy to think that when his country are doing that though, right? :D
 
Anonymous
I mean, makes sense. Israel are doing that to Palestine.
 
Anonymous
So uh... It kinda' aligns with his countries actions.
 
Does he live in Israel?
 
An investigation has been opened internally at StackExchange. It's tracked on their board as COGRO-21707.
 
Anonymous
7:39 PM
I thought so.
 
@EvanCarroll I really hope this doesn't backfire and cause some mod to step in and say "no more politics for you!". If that happens I'll slap you with a wet SATA cable.
 
Anonymous
I would like to make it clear that I don't particularly have anything wrong with the messages being moved to the bin, I more have an issue that they are not accessible at all.
 
Anonymous
@forest I will never come back here if that happens.
 
Anonymous
I think I made it pretty clear to the mods earlier I do not agree with them dictating what we can discuss.
 
@Jis12yearsold. It's better to come back anyway and defy, if some stupid rule is made. Not by coming back and simply spouting politics, but by coming back and talking about tech stuff. And politics only sometimes seeps in naturally.
 
Anonymous
7:41 PM
Especially when they come here less than once every 3 months...
 
@Jis12yearsold. I think Journey invited him to get a second opinion?
 
Anonymous
I believe so.
 
It's not like he's scanning the room for anything he disagrees with then joining.
 
Anonymous
But I think he even said a third and fourth opinion.
 
But regardless, they did say that it's up to us to dictate what we discuss.
 
Anonymous
7:42 PM
Yes, they did.
 
Anonymous
For now.
 
And my guess is they're opening an internal investigation to see if what was posted violated the CoC. Hopefully they'll realize that this ongoing conflict in the Middle East is polarizing.
 
Anonymous
I really wish the logs were accessible, sigh.
 
@Jis12yearsold. I mean, you could probably get it from your browser if you didn't close it? I'm not too sure how browser garbage collection works, but it might be in unallocated memory in the DOM.
 
Anonymous
I closed it unfortunately.
 
7:45 PM
I mean, in theory it might still exist in memory since the kernel only zeros pages after reallocating them and a page fault causes CoW behavior. But that would be a stretch. :P
(Assuming your kernel doesn't init-on-free)
 
Anonymous
> and have multiple people say/prefix a few "This"/That"/"It" keywords for greater psychological and linguistic superiority and maturity, seemingly always necessitating moderators starting their grammatical sentences with instant and immediate variations of "I will not vote for you because..."?
 
Anonymous
what the fuck did I just read...
 
??
 
Anonymous
What in the world does that sentence even mean.
 
Anonymous
StackEx drama is bizarre.
 
Anonymous
7:47 PM
Drama, if you can even call it that.
 
@Jis12yearsold. yoo, just fyi too the avatar is free use. ;) have at it.
 
Anonymous
What avatar?
 
In the event you want to join the cool kids club.
<- BDS
 
BDS (Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions)
 
Anonymous
Umm.
 
7:48 PM
It's a growing movement to recognize Palestine through boycotting oppressors.
 
Anonymous
I will use the avatar. But I am not going to call it the cool kids club.
 
Anonymous
I think it is slightly more serious than that...
 
kool kidz klub
 
Anonymous
^ lul
 
Anonymous
@EvanCarroll Out of interest, are you affiliated with BDS directly or?
 
7:49 PM
BDS isn't a central organization.
 
Anonymous
Okay, well, let me rephrase.
 
Anonymous
To what extent are you involved in BDS, Evan?
 
Agreed, =) And cool with that too. Humane Kids Club Against Absurd Apartheid and Oppressive Nationalism. Marketing win.
 
Anonymous
Or is this just something you're promoting because its the right thing to do?
 
@Jis12yearsold. I'm one of the founders of BDS Houston. Helped get it off the ground. I also started the campaign on Github a few days ago.
 
Anonymous
7:51 PM
Awesome, thank you. I got that feeling hence why I asked.
 
@forest (Sorry to nag, but in case you've forgotten) I left you a ping earlier about something on-topic. When you find time could you please take a look at it? (I spent a good hour trying to figure out the answer myself, so I'm gonna feel bad if I never manage to resolve it :) )
 
@nobody Funny enough, I just started looking into that now.
 
Anonymous
That's better.
 
Anonymous
Wait, it didn't update yet.
 
So I'm actually not super familiar with 802.11i in general. A lot of my memory of how the PSK and PTK and PMK and blah blah related has faded over the years. I think the 4WH itself is not encrypted as a whole, but components of it are encrypted. I'll have to double check.
 
Anonymous
7:54 PM
It takes forever, I forgot.
 
Anonymous
@forest Yes this is what I also thought...
 
Anonymous
But I too have forgotten.
 
@nobody It's something like... a message in the 4WH is encrypted, and the client has to decrypt it to prove that they share the key. But the entire handshake itself is not truly encrypted.
 
I thought they had to send a message with a valid MIC to prove they know the shared key
 
@nobody yooo I like your logo a lot.... BUT.... I like antizionism moar, join us for a week? Solidarity?
 
7:56 PM
:P
 
@EvanCarroll Man, I can't afford getting on the terrorism watch lists (since I live with my family and don't want all of them blacklisted)
 
Anonymous
lol
 
@EvanCarroll Might be useful to specify what antizionism means, as clearly at least one person was under the impression that it meant calling for extermination (which is of course wrong).
 
Anonymous
^
 
@nobody I'm sure Cryptography has something explaining the 4WH well.
2
A: Why does WPA2-PSK use 4-way handshake instead of 2-way handshake

hakojaNo, two messages is not sufficient to achieve what the WPA2-PSK 4WHS is supposed to do: mutual authenticated key-exchange. The key term here is mutual authentication. Remember, at the start of the WPA2-PSK handshake we have two entities, the access point and the client, holding (hopefully) the ...

So it may not be truly encrypted. I might have to fix my answer. Damn WPA2 is convoluted.
 
Anonymous
7:58 PM
Yes it is...
 
Is convoluted or is encrypted?
 
Anonymous
Convoluted.
 
1
Q: WPA/WPA2 Handshake -- Why are Nonces not encrypted?

MinajDuring the WPA/WPA2 handshake, the client and AP compute a 256-bit Pre-shared Master Key (PMK) before exchanging Nonces that are used to compute the eventual key. Given that the hosts already have a shared key (the PMK); why dont they use it to encrypt the Nonces? The attacker exploits these nonc...

 
@nobody Also, a lot of people (artists, singers, speakers, etc.) are publicly aligning themselves with the BDS movement, including Richard Dawkins and Stephen Hawking. It's not some fringe Palestinian movement that would get you on a watchlist.
 
Anonymous
I was under the impression it is NOT encrypted.
 
Anonymous
7:59 PM
But that PMK was SOMEWHAT encrypted.
 
Anonymous
But I just can't remember anymore.
 

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