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Adi
3:04 PM
@TerryChia thomas.xxx is taken
 
3:15 PM
@Ohnana Are you stuck on the password?
 
jrg
@Adi the entire iframe thingy is just a bad concept in general
@Adi The other thing is that unless the other site allows cross-origin framing, it won't work. ibiblio.org/theeuro/InformationWebsite.htm?https://google.com (look at JS console)
 
Adi
@jrg Which is expected for frames
@jrg My issue is someone linking to a fake page with the same style including it in the original page with users logging in there
 
jrg
@Adi Oh, yeah. That's a good way to get some usernames & passwords.
 
@Xander i gave up. if you figured it out i'd love to hear your answer\
 
Adi
Mmmm.. I really want some white Russian
 
3:28 PM
that's racist
 
Adi
I dislike black Russian
It's very heavy
 
raz
Black Russians are icky
 
:o
 
Adi
I like to put cream in it
It actually makes it more fresh
 
Black Russians are for 11:30pm. White Russians are for 3:30am
mmmmmmm
 
Adi
3:31 PM
@RoryAlsop I've never had a black Russian
Do you think I should try?
 
raz
They're kinda meh
It's just a white russian without the cream.
 
Adi
I think I'll go grab coffee liqueur after work
 
@raz That's racist.
 
raz
it's not racist if it's true!
 
Adi
@raz You raise a very important philosophical point
I think a racist claim can be either true or false without affecting its racist status.
 
raz
3:36 PM
It's only racist if I assume you act a certain way or hate you because of your skin. If you proceed to act that way, or I just learn that I hate you. it's not racist.
 
Adi
@raz Nope, the first thing you're describing is prejudice, not racism
 
@raz the second one is subject to selection bias
 
raz
@Ohnana Selection bias?
 
Adi
@Ohnana I don't think so.
 
"i hate x people, all the x people i've met are Y."
 
Adi
3:38 PM
@Ohnana Nooope
He said he'd hate that person
not all people
and not all people who look like him
 
i see, so judgement based on actions not assumptions
 
raz
@Ohnana Right
 
Adi
No sane person would call that racism
Some do, but let's not sink there
 
i see, i misunderstood
 
raz
Are we sane in here?
 
3:39 PM
I didn't mean to start this, I'm sorry.
 
Adi
My issue is @raz's claim
 
BAD @SIMON NO COOKIE
 
I SAID I'M SORRY
 
Adi
Racist statements can still be racist even if they were true
 
SORRY SORRY SORRY SORRY SORRY
 
3:40 PM
suddenly canadian simon appears
 
SOWIE
 
Adi
"I think white people are better at football than black people" is a racist statement
If science later proves it
 
raz
Well that's completely false.
 
Adi
it's still racist
 
raz
Science can't erase racism?
 
3:42 PM
@Adi I'd say that, by definition, a statement whose veracity is in scope of Science cannot be racist.
 
Adi
@raz Proving that black people are actually empirically worse than white people at football changes nothing to the racism status of that claim
 
Racism is in the moral judgement
There is no moral in Science
 
Science cant be racist?
 
Adi
I don't know, I don't think racism is bad
Prejudice is bad
but not racism
 
raz
@Adi I'm not sure I agree the statement is racist though. I think implies opinion.
"I think carrots are better than tomatoes."
 
3:43 PM
@raz is racism ever anything but opinion?
 
@Adi uhhhh I'm pretty sure you can never actually prove stuff like that\
 
Adi
@Ohnana If it's provable, then you probably can prove it
 
raz
Well carrots are always better than tomatoes.
 
@AviD A statement about whether (on average) white people are better or worse at football than black people is a statement that can be confirmed or disproved with a scientific experiment.
That's just a statement.
 
@ThomasPornin "on average" or "inherently"
 
raz
3:44 PM
"You're a dumbass because you're <insert skin color>" Is racist.
 
The racism is in the mind of whoever enunciates that statement and tries to use it as some sort of justification for a moral stance.
 
Adi
Thinking one race is superior or inferior in certain areas in life is racist, but I see no reason to make it immoral
 
@raz What if there is an experiment that proves this is true?
 
yaaaaaay ubuntu boots after i forcefully shut it down in the middle of system updates~!
 
raz
@Adi So Hitler was right he just shouldn't have acted on it?
 
3:45 PM
shoutout to chroot and dpkg --configure
 
@raz Godwins Law FTW!
 
HITLER DID NOTHING WRONG?!
 
jrg
sigh
 
sorry i had to
 
Adi
@raz Hitler thought that Aryans are better. Period.
 
3:45 PM
Godwin's Law (or Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies) is an Internet adage asserting that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1"—​ that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism. Despite being described as universal regarding the subject of the discussion, Godwin's law is more likely to be applicable to social topics (including politics, law, religion, etc.). Promulgated by American attorney and author Mike Godwin...
 
Adi
In all areas in life
Better than all races
So, really, bringing Hitler up makes no sense
 
raz
@RоryMcCune Ahahahaha, I learned something today!
 
look, you can't create thought crimes. but at the same time, some ideas are poisonous, and they'll leak into your daily life
 
raz
@Adi Right, but thinking you're better than all other races still makes you racist. With your logic.
@Ohnana Operation Mindcrime!
 
Adi
@raz Yes
 
3:47 PM
if i were a neo-nazi skinhead fuck, i'd consider mixed race people to be "race traitors"
and that would lead to me being a dick to them even if I tried not to
 
Adi
I'm talking about scientifically proving that there are certain characteristics linked directly to one's race and associating that with advantage or disadvantage in certain areas in life.
I don't think it's a bad thing
 
raz
@Adi I see your point, although I don't entirely agree.
 
@Adi within social context
 
raz
@Adi It's only a bad thing if you act out on it?
 
taking scientific studies out of context is a one-way ticket to crazytown
 
3:49 PM
It's only gay if the tips touch.
 
Adi
@raz Act on it as in: "Let's kill all of them", yes
 
raz
@Adi Or verbally abuse another.
 
Adi
@raz Also that
 
raz
Or skip them over in a job.
 
Adi
@raz No. Allow me to explain
 
raz
3:50 PM
I think being objectively racist is kind of hard.
 
Adi
Let's imagine a hypothetical situation where the football thing was proven (actual science, not SQL stats.. don't get me started)
 
raz
ok
 
Adi
Intentionally dropping black players and hiring white players shouldn't be wrong
 
raz
Ah
 
Adi
It's still racist
but I don't think it's wrong
 
raz
3:51 PM
Yes I see what you're saying.
 
@Adi I think it's delicious
 
@Adi you know, you're talking about peoples' livelihoods there
 
Adi
Same thing if science proves that black people are better at programming because of characteristics that are associated with race-related genes. I don't think it would be wrong to only hire black people for programming jobs
 
my employers shouldn't be able to skip me over for irrelevant characteristics, because outliers can and do happen
 
@Adi That would, however, fail on the notion of average.
 
Adi
3:53 PM
@Ohnana Are you reading what I'm writiing?
 
Let's take a true example: swimming.
 
@Adi yes i am, and I disagree with it
 
@Adi The fact that you're using black people as an example in your racism explanation is racist.
 
Having a higher muscle density is a problem for swimming, because for fast swimming you need to float well.
 
Adi
@Ohnana I 100% agree with the "irrelevant characteristics" thing. 100%
But I'm talking about relevant characteristics
@Simon and I'm using white people as well. Your point?
 
3:54 PM
@Adi RACIST BASTARD
 
On average, black people have higher muscle density than white people, so they need to spend more energy keeping afloat, and thus they swim slower.
 
@LucasKauffman Exactly.
 
However, this is only an average.
Rejecting a black swimmer based on that average would be scientifically wrong (since the scientific fact only talks about averages), and since it is wrong it will soon turn into a moral issue (i.e. wrong -> unjust).
 
@ThomasPornin it's also the shape of the musclefilaments
 
You are justified not to hire a swimmer that does not float well, not because he is black, but because he does not float well.
 
3:57 PM
@ThomasPornin exactly
 
Adi
@ThomasPornin I also agree with that
 
I hate anyone who capitalize tags, e.g.: <Table></Table>.
 
capitalizing html tags is a crime
 
Adi
I mean definitive direct link between race and a certain characteristic. Not just average
 
A large part of racism feeds on the (very unscientific) confusion between the particular and the general.
 
3:58 PM
@LucasKauffman Oh yes.
 
@Ohnana It isn't a trick. Try rearranging the missing letters.
 
@Simon <TaBlE>
 
Adi
and I want to go back to my main point. Even if something is true, it can still be racist
 
@Adi If I direct a movie retracing the life of Nelson Mandela then I will choose a black man as lead actor, and this is not racist, indeed.
 
@TerryChia If I knew the person would have to maintain my code, I'd totally write that.
 
4:00 PM
And nobody would actually call it racist, either.
That's the problem with obvious extremes: they are obvious, hence not subject to debate.
 
@Adi For instance in general bears are murderous animals feeding on salmon, fighting with other bears over female bears, eating male cubs and then sleeping all winter 'cause there lazy as fuck. And then there is Thomas, a bear who has superhuman characteristics, speaks several languages and is a crypto expert. I think it would be wrong saying bears shouldn't be implementing crypto. Just like Thomas says, bears who have all of characteristics I first listed, especially the 'murder' part.
 
Adi
I think you mean @Thomas
 
@LucasKauffman Technically this would be speciest, not racist, though.
 
@ThomasPornin It's because you're a black bear
if you were a polar, there wouldn't be a problem
 
@LucasKauffman Yeah, but "PolarSSL" is already taken.
 
4:02 PM
Hence GrizzlySSL?
 
@ThomasPornin and they're not allowing you to work on it because you're a black bear?
racist bastards
 
@Xander god fucking damn it
 
@LucasKauffman Not me, @Thomas!
 
LeekSSL
 
I thought it was going to be BareSSL for the pun value
 
4:03 PM
┻━┻ ︵ヽ(`Д´)ノ︵ ┻━┻
 
@LucasKauffman ...
 
so it's bare (in the sense of stripped down to act as a comparison to OpenSSL) and made by a bear
 
Ah sure we'll totes trust that. I'm calling my email crypto tool pretty good rot13.
 
@Gone I use ROT26
and write that it's an encoded message in the message to confuse htem
while the message was in front of them all along
 
@LucasKauffman I put in all my emails "look for the microdot, it's where the hidden stuff is!". Bound to confuse the spooks!
 
raz
4:05 PM
@Ohnana Come on now!
 
@Ohnana lololol
 
@RоryMcCune If the DMZ collaboratively wrote a tls implementation I can well imagine it might get called that.
For pun value.
 
raz
@LucasKauffman ROT8 is where it's at.
 
Russian computer: "Enter password" Me: "Beef stew" Russian computer: "Password not stroganoff"
5
 
4:23 PM
@raz i feel like a dumbass now
 
Adi
Sooo.. yeah, what else is new?
Other than me, apparently, being a racist.
 
Adi
@Ohnana :O
 
@Adi unreleased version. probably similar to the steam bug
 
Adi
But but but.. how?
Like actually, how does it do it?
How does it delete all files?
 
4:33 PM
@Adi rm -rf $foo/
 
@Ohnana Holy crap
 
foo is unset, so the command is rm -rf /
 
Adi
@Ohnana Makes sense
 
and then your box gets skullfucked
2
 
It's nice of them to thank the dude because he did save them a ton of trouble.
 
raz
5:12 PM
@Ohnana s/dumbass/@Simon
Low hanging fruit, couldn't resist.
 
pls
 
people really like the word skullfuck in here
 
5:36 PM
what is it with french people and being good at Crypto méric.fr/blog/blackjack.html
 
Since when are accents invading domain names?
 
perhaps it's a biased sample but there seems to me to be a higher percentage of crypto types who are french than you would expect...
 
@Simon actual domain name is xn--mric-bpa.fr/blog/blackjack.html
idk wtf cyrillic rory posted
 
lolwat
 
@Ohnana that was CTRL-C CTRL-V from the address bar in firefox
 
5:38 PM
@RоryMcCune intriguing
 
and the link I clicked to get there came from twitter
 
@RоryMcCune There is a high concentration of cryptographers in France for several reasons, one of them being a longstanding tradition of teaching crypto at high academic level (academically speaking, talent breeds talent). Another reason is smart cards: French patent (now expired), provides lots of jobs for non-academic cryptographers.
 
@ThomasPornin ahh I guessed there would be an academic basis for it, but interesting point on the smart cards
@ThomasPornin perhaps also a desire to use home grown rather than imported tech?
 
@RоryMcCune World leader in Smart Cards is French (Gemalto). World leader in payment terminals (that read smart cards) is also French (Ingenico).
@RоryMcCune It is better not to import technology; otherwise one could get accidentally infected with britishness.
 
5:44 PM
@ThomasPornin well look at britain, let a lot of it's tech/engineering companies get taken over by companies from other countries, this did not really end well
 
@ThomasPornin The world leading snobs are probably French too.
 
@ThomasPornin we have more of a formal methods heritage here. Mainly stemming from Praxis Altran.
(And, obviously, academia)
Hell, even our govt. demands assurance cases for defence purchases. Although it doesn't always work so well (See also, Nimrod XV230).
 
@Simon Yes, quite logically. "Snob" means sine nobilitate, i.e. "without nobility". In France we kind of broke most of our nobles a couple of centuries ago, so now we must make do with what we have left.
 
@ThomasPornin How do you do that? HOW DO YOU ALWAYS MANAGE TO TWIST UP REALITY TO MAKE ME LOOK DUMB?
7
 
@Simon REKT
also you're part french so stfu
 
5:55 PM
le fu-
 
6:12 PM
some days i know why assault is illegal
some people would just permanently walk around with black eyes
 
@Ohnana They are called pandas.
 
@Ohnana Don't miss your opportunity to reply something great. For once, he has spoken to you for real.
 
DERP
but seriously, I think I'll code name the annoying people in my life "panda" now
 
Clever.
 
vessel.com/careers <-- interesting careers page on the vessel site
they have one of those coding puzzles for prospective devs
 
6:26 PM
wow they actually ask you to pipe curl to an interpreter
note to self -- do not trust vector devs
 
@Ohnana ah no that's the amusing bit
 
> Do you always run code without checking it first? devnull@vessel.com
 
try decoding it first
 
LAWL
oh god my vi is lagging out
stay with me buddy
holy shit what is this program
i removed the eval and printed it and it said "you're doing quite well"
 
and then some binary stuff
 
6:32 PM
this is neat
it's like a rubix but my hands don't hurt
> A bug in the code is worth two in the documentation
oh shi --
 
they REALLY love base64 encoding things don't they
 
6:53 PM
@RоryMcCune Umm, yes. Wow.
 
i feel like i should script this...
 
@Ohnana yeah I'm getting to that point too
 
WAIT WHAT
 
@RоryMcCune This is ridiculous. It's at least double encoded, and I wouldn't be surprised to keep decoding and find out it's the Russian Nesting Dolls of Base64 all the way down.
 
i got to the end and it's disappointing ;_;
 
6:57 PM
@Ohnana aww how many levels were there in the end?
I got to like 9
 
i got the the 15th iteration
and the payload is this:
30 mins ago, by Ohnana
> Do you always run code without checking it first? devnull@vessel.com
that was a lame puzzle
 
so perhaps there is something else in there
not acquirable by just decoding it...
 
the email address does exist...
 
the comments are quite funny tho'
 
wait a minute. the 13th iteration says "you're not even going the right way"
i forgot to check that one
 
6:59 PM
a little Portal 2 humor
 
omg it's the line breaks
wtf my brain is broke
 
@Ohnana mm?
 
@RоryMcCune if you take out the line breaks in the 13th iteration, you get completely different code with the comment "the experiment is nearing it's completeion
(and decode it ofc)
 
@Ohnana at the end of my one I get a different email address in the comments
from the devnull one
 
weird
 
7:04 PM
along with a message about +1 for checking the source -1 for not trusting us
and hoping I didn't solve it manually
and a post to some google tracking code
 
we'll have to compare methods after I finish up
 
mine was super lame :op
irb + 4 commands +copy/paste. but as I was reading the comments in each step it kind of made sense
but if it had gone on much longer I would have need to have automated the bit that pulled out the next string
I do like the pun in the e-mail address that they give
but then I'm a sucker for good puns!
 
i found it!
 
ahahaha that is a good pun
i did solve it manually tho
pastebin?
 
7:07 PM
@Ohnana well I was keeping the mail address off googleable sources
 
your commands i mean
i have the solution in front of me
 
BITCOIN EXCHANGE HOSTED ON SAME SERVER WITH WORDPRESS BLOG MAKES HEAD EXPLODY.
 
@Ohnana my commands were basically "open a file called inputfile" split it on newline to create an array, decode each element of the array and write back to a new file
I'm not a very good developer :)
 
@RоryMcCune breathtakingly simple
 
@Xander oh .. dear.. lord
@Ohnana yeah like I said, remember my degree is accountancy :)
so this whole computers thing is self-taught..
 
7:09 PM
it worked so i think you can declare a victory
 
@Ohnana for stubbornness over sense sure :)
 
i wonder why removing the line breaks in iteration 13 made such a difference...
 
@Ohnana that is weird...
@Ohnana amusingly given that the puzzle is ruby, none of the little language icons are ruby, it's all JS/python stuff
 
7:30 PM
@Ohnana Why isn't reording folders a stock feature of TB?
That's just dumb.
 
@Simon reordering?
 
@Ohnana -.-
Sometimes, English is hard.
 
nah it's cool
there's an extension for it
although i have to say I've never felt the urge to reorder my folders
 
Yeah I did use the extension to do it. I have some search folders for stuff like "To do" and "Later", but "Later" was before "To do" which is kind of dumb.
 
whatever makes you happy
 
7:34 PM
pls
 
holy shit
10.5 euro for a glass of Oban
 
@LucasKauffman where are you? London?
 
Adi
@LucasKauffman 30ml?
 
@RоryMcCune Amsterdam
 
@LucasKauffman yikes, so whisky is off the menu at AppSecEU then!
 
7:49 PM
@RоryMcCune yea, if you can and if they have it, try LaChouffe, it's generally available all across amsterdam and not that expensive
@RоryMcCune one of my favourite beers
 
@LucasKauffman well belgian beer is generally a fav. of mine so that'll be a plan for the visit..
 
@RоryMcCune depending on work I might be around not sure yet tho :(
 
@LucasKauffman need to see closer to the time I guess... @Adi did you ever hear from them about volunteering? I got .... nothing back
 
8:33 PM
Looking for a secure platform to host your Bitcoin exchange? @SecureTips recommends WordPress! https://www.allcrypt.com/blog/2015/03/what-happened-and-whats-going-on/
And from a month ago on their own Twitter account....
AllCrypt: Too small and insignificant to be a target of the hacks this week. Your coins are safe here because no one cares to hack us 😭
 
jrg
hahahaaaaaaaaa.... nope!
 
8:54 PM
So I've responded to a 419er, just because. After exchanging several emails, they've now sent me to a fake bank website to inquire about the account in question. I'm trying to decide what the best next move is.
 
jrg
9:11 PM
@Xander Fill it out with a fake identity?
then give them access to a VM? Or just drop off the face of the earth?
 
Adi
@Xander I hate whoever wrote that
> I see you running an exchange successfully, I’ll take your advice. Wait, you don’t run an exchange? You’re unemployed? Thanks for the input.
Fuck you! How about that?
Why didn't their IDS/IPS send SMS alerts for repeated rule match?
That, alone, could have saved the majority of their shit from the alleged hack
 
> A: It was the marketing director’s account. Beings that he was constantly updating files, it was necessary for his account to have the ability to upload new files.
wow, nice to see they take security seriously
 
@Adi between us and them, we're closer to running an exchange successfully. I mean, we've lost less of our customers' money than they have.
@RоryMcCune oldie but goodie
 
@Gilles yeah it ran around on Twitter again and worth the repost..
 
9:23 PM
Is there a high-profile browser-side SSL-related vulnerability that isn't about the user interface and that can be explained (at least to some extent) to non-techies?
I'm preparing a broad-audience presentation on what kinds of things go wrong with security on the web
 
@Gilles does superfish count?
 
@AviD no, different category
I'm thinking of presenting a couple of coding vulns: heartbleed (because it's famous and relatively simple), and one browser-side
 
@Gilles well, it does highlight several kinds of things that go wrong on web....
 
then a protocol vuln (CRIME?), an organizational vuln (superfish was on my list), and a UI vuln (I thought IDN)
 
@Gilles @Adi seriously though, are there any exchanges that are even moderately secure?
 
9:27 PM
there's tons of CVEs for all the browsers out there, but not one that strikes me as a particularly good choice for a non-technical audience
 
and its things like this that reinforce my inclination to go with my gut - around a year ago one of those clueless noobs wanted me to help secure the exchange he was building (in PHP, of course). I refused, albeit would agree IF he agreed to my conditions - which included learning some basic crap. OF COURSE he didnt.
 
@AviD was he at least paying real money?
 
@Gilles I dont even remember. Didnt really get to that point, ofc I would have given him my premium rates, though I got the feeling he wanted to "do a deal"
and NO I would not have accepted payment in bitcoins ;-)
 
I heard that Just In Time compilers written in France are pretty Le JIT.
 
@RоryMcCune Can't be correct. What'd JIT stand for?
 
9:34 PM
@CodesInChaos Just in Time, it's a french/english cross, like @Simon
 
@CodesInChaos amazingly enough, if you translate the initialism, you don't get TIJ
 
@Gilles Go home French, you're drunk. Using the same acronym as the English? Unacceptable.
 
@CodesInChaos I'll go home when it's time by my clock in UTC
 
@Gilles Next you'll tell me you invented the SI units as well?
 
@CodesInChaos well, I won't go as far as pretend we have a word for entrepreneur
 
9:42 PM
@Gilles a while ago there were some business bloggers that were trying to change the usage of that word, since the word is totally contrary to the spirit of what it implies.
some were trying to change to yazam, you should use that
its the hebrew word for entrepreneur, short'n'sweet, feels powerful, and sounds like Shazam!
 
@Gilles But seriously, what French expression would map to JIT? Shouldn't it be something like "juste à temps" or "juste en temps"?
 
@CodesInChaos literally, juste à temps
but it isn't very idiomatic
I don't know how to translate “JIT compiler” in French
the idiomatic translation for the everyday meaning would be en temps réel (in real time), but in a computer context that would be very confusing
à la volée, maybe (lit. on the fly)
 
"Compilation à la volée" is the title of the wikipedia article
 
makes sense
 
wikipedia linking the same article in several languages is one of my favourite ways of translating technical jargon
 

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