The DMZ

Anonymous

9:00 AM

Its a shame they changed it from "why am i not dead" lol.

forest

Never read it.

Journeyman Geek

Its good fun

forest

@JoshuaJones I think it was "why iam not dead?"

[sic]

Anonymous

lol.

Anonymous

It's more scientific now - "Why am I not dead after repeatedly touching a high-voltage source?"

Anonymous

9:00 AM

Although it still sounds ridiculous.

Journeyman Geek

"Why am I not dead after flooding myself with electricity?"

Anonymous

^

Journeyman Geek

I've touched mains... once

Anonymous

I should suggest that edit..

Journeyman Geek

it hurt like jeepers.

Anonymous

9:01 AM

I might get banned from that Stack though

Anonymous

Unfortunately.

Journeyman Geek

I unplugged said device, and throw it in the trash

forest

I got zapped once as well.

When I was younger.

It was... a jolting experience.

Anonymous

lol.

Anonymous

I've had a static shock does that count? (Joke)

forest

9:02 AM

Hey static shocks can be very dangerous!

Set up a few leyden jars and see how you like it.

Anonymous

It's the weirdest feeling ever actually.

forest

Or stick your hand in a dusty CRT monitor!

Anonymous

Eww

Anonymous

NO.

Anonymous

I've done that.

forest

9:03 AM

Ouch

Anonymous

It feels so strange lol.

forest

Yeah it can kill you.

Anonymous

I didn't know that...

Anonymous

Maybe I should ask why I am not dead lol

forest

CRT monitors, microwave magnetrons, disposable camera flash bulbs, etc...

They can store insane amounts of power. A CRT monitor (especially if it's dusty, which indicates a high static charge) can contain insane voltages in the cathode tubes and flyback transformer. Even decade old ones can be dangerous.

Anonymous

9:05 AM

I'm so young that I never actually ever owned a single CRT...

Anonymous

Is that bad?

Anonymous

I never even experienced the pain of dial-up.

forest

You'll never know the pleasurable high-pitched "sssSSSS" sound as you turn on the TV on a Saturday morning to watch cartoons...

(To be fair, I haven't used dial-up either)

Anonymous

Really? That surprises me a little.

forest

At least, I don't think. Might have when I was really young but too young to know it.

My early computer days didn't involve much of the internet. It was mostly disc games and staring at that creepy map screen saver or wondering if the stars screen saver will ever actually get somewhere. And playing bugatron or whatever it's called.

Kepotx

9:08 AM

flooded with static electricity

Anonymous

My early computer days were scratch lol.

Kepotx

well, I don't know if it's specific to my copuntry but early internet subscription where limited in time

Journeyman Geek

didn't have the internet till my 486

Kepotx

like you get 12 hours of connection by month

Anonymous

And when I was like 10 I discovered Counter-Strike and played it nonstop for a few years lol.

forest

9:09 AM

ouch

Journeyman Geek

and spent a little time with text only internet, and per usage billing, so we'd obviously not sit on the internet all day

Cable was... magic

Anonymous

12 hours of connection a month?

Anonymous

Oh no..

Kepotx

oh, and that stupid AOL disc to have internet...

Anonymous

All I've ever known is the Internet I couldn't live with such a little amount.

forest

9:10 AM

@Kepotx AOL discs, early spam :P

Anonymous

I don't know what those are :'(

forest

@JoshuaJones AOL used to be like Google. They did everything (IM, search engines, news, etc). They would give out software discs everywhere.

Anonymous

Wow.

forest

And by everywhere I mean everywhere. Every household would have one or more.

Anonymous

lol.

Kepotx

9:12 AM

they where literaly giving lot of them free.

forest

engadget.com/2017/07/11/aol-cd-internet-archive

Anonymous

The funny/sad thing is.

Anonymous

I'm so young I never needed disks.

Kepotx

we used them on our garden to make birds go away

Anonymous

Or a disk drive.

forest

9:13 AM

I only really started using computers in the early 2000s, I don't know if I did in the 90s.

@JoshuaJones I still remember using floppy drives.

Kepotx

techcrunch.com/2010/12/27/aol-discs-90s/?guccounter=1

Anonymous

Floppy Drives? lol.

Anonymous

I've only ever seen one come out of a very, very old machine.

forest

Yeah, the drives that now days could only store a single large image from Wikipedia.

Journeyman Geek

I have a USB one somewhere

"in case"

forest

9:14 AM

It's where you put all your documents.

Kepotx

"At one point, 50% of the CD’s produced worldwide had an AOL logo on it. We were logging in new subscribers at the rate of one every six seconds"

forest

Yep, spam before the spam.

Anonymous

What is the actual age range for this site?

Anonymous

Like 23~ - 40~ ?

forest

No idea. I imagine 20-40?

Anonymous

9:15 AM

I said 23 because I feel like when you're 20, 21, 22 you're less interested in life.

Kepotx

@JoshuaJones see the save icon ? That's a floppy drive. lot of document we used today would be to heavy to be stored in this anymore...

Anonymous

Then 23 hits.

Anonymous

But thats just my imagination to be honest

Anonymous

Yeah I know what they look like @Kepotx

forest

I wonder if people now days don't even know that the save icon is a floppy...

Anonymous

9:16 AM

I may be young I am not a moron lol

Anonymous

And I can safely say Forest, not many.

forest

Thank god.

You know in a way, floppy drives were better than what we have now.

Anonymous

Really?

forest

You actually owned them. They wouldn't get deleted from "the cloud".

Kepotx

the thing is, would young people know what is a floppy drive if it didn't become a famous icon ?

Anonymous

9:17 AM

Oh I see.

Anonymous

@Kepotx No.

Anonymous

From a young person, no we wouldn't lol.

forest

Once you put something on a drive, it stayed there. There were no subscription fees, there was no stickly terms of service.

Anonymous

I can't really speak for my generation.

Journeyman Geek

"Look! Someone 3d printer a save symbol!"

Anonymous

9:18 AM

I am nothing like "them"

forest

And it was fast. You didn't have to wait for transfers to complete.

Journeyman Geek

now the fun is when you hand em a 5 1/4

Anonymous

I don't use cloud storage Forest.

forest

@JourneymanGeek That just gave me cancer.

Journeyman Geek

@forest naw, it was slow, and loud.

Anonymous

9:18 AM

So it doesn't affect me :D

forest

@JourneymanGeek The later ones weren't. You could save a document on them almost instantly.

Journeyman Geek

but you could tell if stuff broke from the noise

forest

(I'm not talking about C64 era)

Anonymous

Physical Storage > Cloud Storage

forest

@JourneymanGeek And back then, the "try again" button actually did something!

Journeyman Geek

9:19 AM

I miss being able to know if a dial-up modem was working from the sound

and I could recognise the tones for our dial in number... 3211951

forest

That was before my time.

Anonymous

Believe it or not.

Anonymous

Sometimes I still have to do that Journemany.

forest

Do what?

Journeyman Geek

I think our first peoper internetty modem was a 14400?

Anonymous

9:20 AM

We've had a few customers that have been on legacy kit.

Journeyman Geek

@forest diagnose a modem by listening

Anonymous

And you have to listen to the dial tone.

forest

@JoshuaJones Yeah some people still use it today.

Journeyman Geek

@JoshuaJones after a while, you knew the whole dialup handshake by heart

Anonymous

Yeah.

forest

9:21 AM

Especially in parts of the world without internet infrastructure.

Anonymous

I never forget seeing my first PBX.

Anonymous

In a customers site.

Anonymous

I went there and saw it on the wall and was just like... the fuck is that? It had no cover on or anything.

Anonymous

People still use them though >.>

Journeyman Geek

If it works, it keeps working ;)

forest

9:22 AM

It's not a bad thing. It works.

Yep.

Kepotx

@JoshuaJones the funny thing is that we have not that much age diference, but I still had used object you never seen in real life. this really show how things go fast in IT

Anonymous

How old are you? @Kepotx

forest

In a country or area where there is no real internet, the beauty of dial-up is that you can re-use the telephone infrastructure to get internet.

Kepotx

22

Journeyman Geek

@Kepotx my dad was an early adopter, but didn't like upgrading things

Anonymous

9:23 AM

Anonymous

^ Thats it.

Anonymous

@Kepotx How old do you think I am?

Anonymous

lol.

Journeyman Geek

so we had an XT for years and years, and tended to skip a ton of generations of stuff

went XT, 486, PII PIV...

now we're at a 5-6 year cycle but I've got a lot more machines ;p

Kepotx

@JoshuaJones aren't you 18 or something like that?

Journeyman Geek

9:24 AM

My dad's current laptop's 11 years old

Anonymous

17.

forest

I don't even remember what I had. I just remember it ran... 95 or 98 or something.

Anonymous

Yeah I guess 5 years isn't that much.

Journeyman Geek

@forest PII/III I think

forest

Could have been.

Journeyman Geek

9:25 AM

our 486 did win 95 tho

forest

Shame I was too young to have heard about f00f or I would have had a lot more fun.

Journeyman Geek

also ME wasn't totally crap if you upgraded from 98

so I was baffled for years why people hated it

Anonymous

I remember port forwarding my router when I was young thinking I was a next level network engineer lol.

Anonymous

And now I sit on routers and I just want to crry.

Anonymous

Cry*

Journeyman Geek

9:26 AM

hah

at some point I want to 'build' my own router

forest

Well to be fair, back then all of Windows was crap.

I liked XP and 7 though.

Barely used 7, but used XP a lot.

Journeyman Geek

not sure if I'll go linux (more fun) or pfsense (more sensible) though

forest

@JourneymanGeek There are lots of cheap 1U servers you can use for that.

Go opnsense.

Don't do pfsense.

Journeyman Geek

@forest oh, there's cheap chinese industrial PCs with 2-4 ethernet ports

200-300 dollars all in on the low end

@forest basically some premade thing ;p

Anonymous

I liked Windows 7.

Journeyman Geek

9:27 AM

I have enough network hardware that I can afford to spend some time setting it up

Kepotx

have you heard of "minitel" or is it only famous in France?

Journeyman Geek

the latter, but heard of it

Anonymous

Hmm - I'm sure I've heard it.

Journeyman Geek

Lots of countires had their own PC/Telectext systems

forest

Was FidoNet for a specific country?

Journeyman Geek

9:29 AM

can't remember

ours was called teleview

didn't last long tho

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_Teleview we used a later varient with a PC client

Kepotx

never use it but maybe it's because im too young

Anonymous

Jesus I really have never heard of any of this.

Journeyman Geek

@JoshuaJones I'd be surprised if you heard of teleview

if you did, I'd ask you about zone phones

Anonymous

never

Journeyman Geek

So... short lived experiment

Anonymous

9:33 AM

lol.

Anonymous

Anything pre-2005 I've most likely never heard of lol.

Journeyman Geek

You had phones that could call out if you were in line of sight of a transmitter that was usually on the ground floor of a building.

Only in singapore I think

forest

You know the one thing that amazes me? After all this time, remote controls for television still use IR.

Kepotx

wonder how the same conversation in 10/15 years from now would be

Anonymous

O.o

Kepotx

9:34 AM

"facebook and windows 10? never heard of it"

Anonymous

That's deep kepotx.

Anonymous

I hope we're saying that in 10/15 years.

Anonymous

I hate Facebook and I hate Windows 10.l

Journeyman Geek

And here's the joke

Anonymous

Both should be killed with fire.

forest

9:34 AM

@Kepotx Probably rather similar. Back then, there wasn't much of an incentive to keep things the way they are. It's a lot easier to switch from gopher to http back when people unironically used gopher than it would be now.

Journeyman Geek

they would always be next to payphones.

@forest it works ;p

and is simple

and cheap

forest

In 10 years, there will probably still be people using IPv4.

What is, gopher?

Kepotx

I mean, when we see a 15 years old car, we know it's a car and how it work. and some are still driving. funny how it's that diferent for IT

Journeyman Geek

IR

forest

Ah

Anonymous

9:35 AM

Yeah I would say people will still be using IPv4 in 10 years.

forest

Yeah but RF is also dirt cheap.

Journeyman Geek

or 20

forest

And you don't have to point your remote.

Anonymous

Ipv6 is horrible though.

Anonymous

Okay, IPv6 isn't horrible.

Journeyman Geek

9:36 AM

eh

forest

Eh, IPv6 is nice in some ways, but on a protocol level I find it gross.

Journeyman Geek

its awesome

Anonymous

It just makes simple concepts more unsimple.

Journeyman Geek

if you didn't want to remember it like a peasant

forest

Yeah, like integrating MAC addresses and doing DHCP stuff.

Kepotx

9:36 AM

wouldn't we have to bury ipv4 because limited adress?

forest

Or PMTU.

Journeyman Geek

@forest heh, my ISP's setup using SLAAC just works...

if you know it exists

Kepotx

even more with IOT and multiplication of device per capita

forest

@Kepotx No? Just make all mobile devices IPv6.

Anonymous

@Kepotx NAT has incredibly extended the life of IPv4.

forest

9:37 AM

And all IoT IPv6.

Journeyman Geek

ironically the setup on my dedi is flaky is hell.

Anonymous

IPv6 has it's place.

Journeyman Geek

also everything being end to end is good and bad

Anonymous

I just don't think we should eradicate IPv4 and replace it with Ipv6

Journeyman Geek

its good for power users. But bad in that people need to be security aware

Anonymous

9:37 AM

Because as I said makes simple things not so simple.

forest

@JourneymanGeek Well NAT isn't supposed to be a security feature anyway.

Journeyman Geek

@JoshuaJones I'd be happy with universal ipv6, and settle for CGN on the user end

forest

Your firewall should block open services even if you use IPv6.

Journeyman Geek

@forest no, its not

@forest IPv6 firewalls on a lot of consumer equipment... are not a thing

Anonymous

We've got a customer who uses a lot of IPv6 and it's a shit show.

Anonymous

9:39 AM

I don't touch them because quite honestly past the CCNA material for IPv6.

Anonymous

I know very little.

forest

Ah, the ambiguity of "should".

Anonymous

And the CCNA material for IPv6 isn't massive.

forest

I meant that it is supposed to, not that it is common.

Honestly the two things that make me bitter about IPv6 are 1) It's more complex and implementations are less well-audited, and 2) it's hard to memorize addresses.

Journeyman Geek

@JoshuaJones heh, neither of my phone companies support ipv6. and that's annoying

Anonymous

9:40 AM

@forest Some would say almost impossible to memorize addresses.

Anonymous

I really dislike IPv6.

Journeyman Geek

@JoshuaJones I just stick a AAAA record on everything I need ;)

forest

The only IPv6 address I can memorize is ::1.

Anonymous

^ +1

Anonymous

IPv4 is still fine.

forest

9:42 AM

We can extend the life of IPv4 by moving mobile devices off of it (which we are doing to a good extent). They are the ones that are really taking up so much of the space.

Journeyman Geek

hah

I'm on CGN on mine

WHich works fine

Anonymous

Yeah agreed Forest.

Anonymous

I think that will happen.

Anonymous

But how about this? ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg99869.html

Anonymous

IPv10.

forest

9:43 AM

And NAT may be a hack, but it's an elegant hack.

omg

IPv10?

Anonymous

It seems like a joke at first but if you read it.

Anonymous

The authors are incredibly serious.

Anonymous

So it would seem.

Kepotx

@forest not only they are taking much space, but also they are not used in the same way. few mobile host websites for example

Anonymous

And agreed Forest. NAT is a very elegant hack.

forest

9:45 AM

Oh it actually looks kind of clever.

Anonymous

Yeah.

Kepotx

not all RFC are serious

Anonymous

tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1149

forest

Yeah but that one is November, not April :P

Anonymous

^ my favourite one.

forest

9:46 AM

1149, is that evil bit?

(I only remember because it's close to the JTEG IEEE standard)

Kepotx

tools.ietf.org/html/draft-omar-si-00

Anonymous

1149 - A Standard for the Transmission of IP Datagrams on Avian Carriers

forest

Ah yeah

I love how people actually implemented that.

Anonymous

Yeah so do I.

Anonymous

It's actually quite impressive..

forest

9:47 AM

I would have loved to be able to ping an address over an avian interface.

Kepotx

well, a university in south africa send data by pigeon, and by internet

forest

And actually get a response.

Anonymous

^

Kepotx

the bird was much more faster

Anonymous

Yeah that is true Kepotx.

Anonymous

9:48 AM

But the setup it requires is not worth it.

forest

IP over Avian Carriers

In computer networking, IP over Avian Carriers (IPoAC) is a humorously intended proposal to carry Internet Protocol (IP) traffic by birds such as homing pigeons. IP over Avian Carriers was initially described in RFC 1149, a Request for Comments (RFC) issued by the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) written by D. Waitzman and released on April 1, 1990. It is one of several April Fools' Day RFCs. Waitzman described an improvement of his protocol in RFC 2549, IP over Avian Carriers with Quality of Service (1 April 1999). Later, in RFC 6214 released on 1 April 2011, and 13 years after the i...

I love that command line.

Anonymous

It's also not at all sustainable or feasible in the long run

Anonymous

LOL

Anonymous

IP over Avian Carriers with Quality of Service

forest

> 9 packets transmitted, 4 packets received, 55% packet loss
> round-trip min/avg/max = 3211900.8/5222806.6/6388671.9 ms

Kepotx

9:48 AM

I also heard of an AWS project were instead of downloading content, they send it to you by drone

Anonymous

How does that work? Do they tell the bird to deliver X package first? lol

Anonymous

QoS with a bird..

Anonymous

I never thought I'd see the day.

forest

Sneakernet -> Wingnet?

tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2549

lmao, page 2

That diagram

Anonymous

Which one?

Anonymous

9:50 AM

                    _____/-----\   / o\
                             <____   _____\_/    >--
             +-----+              \ /    /______/
             | 10g |               /|:||/
             +-----+              /____/|
             | 10g |                    |
             +-----+          ..        X
           ===============================
                          ^
                          |
                      =========

Anonymous

That?

forest

Yeah

Anonymous

lmao.

forest

Though the ASCII got a bit mangled here.

> Round-robin queueing is not recommended. Robins make for well-tuned
> networks but do not support the necessary auto-homing feature.

Yeah I love funny RFCs.

Anonymous

Yeah it did :'(

forest

9:51 AM

There are some amazing ones.

Anonymous

HAHAHA

Anonymous

This diagram is better

Anonymous

Alt | Plot of Traffic Shaping showing carriers in flight
|
2k | ....................
| . .
| . .
1k | . .
| +---+ +---+
| | A | | B |
| +---+ +---+
|_____________________________________________

forest

That was even worse mangled.

Anonymous

Umm.

Anonymous

9:51 AM

Okay....

Anonymous

The second diagram the plot of the path lol

forest

We need to standardize Shift-JIS for Western audiences lol

Anonymous

One day I will ping someone over IPoac

forest

There are also some serious RFCs that are rather amusing. There was one explaining best practices for a network of internal servers' host names was great. It explained that a theme should be used, like colors or actors.

Anonymous

And they will reply over IPoac

forest

9:52 AM

One of the examples they gave was serial killers :D

Anonymous

A theme for hostnames?

Anonymous

Actors? I know what mine would be >.>

Anonymous

There is only one name good enough to be allowed as a hostname on my network!

forest

Log into root@bittaker or root@chikolito.

I need to change my hostnames to something like that.

Anonymous

root@keiraknightley -.-

forest

9:54 AM

Yeah but celebrities and actors stop being famous. Serial killers are always famous :P

Anonymous

True. But she'll always be famous to me :'(

forest

user@jacktheripper ~ $ john --wordlist=password.lst --rules mypasswd

Anonymous

^ +1

forest

John the Ripper on Jack the Ripper :D

Anonymous

Whos better?

Anonymous

9:55 AM

That is the REAL question.

forest

tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1178

> Some more suggestions are: mythical places (e.g., Midgard,
Styx, Paradise), mythical people (e.g., Procne, Tereus, Zeus),
killers (e.g., Cain, Burr, Boleyn), babies (e.g., colt, puppy,
tadpole, elver), collectives (e.g., passel, plague, bevy,
covey), elements (e.g., helium, argon, zinc), flowers (e.g.,
tulip, peony, lilac, arbutus). Get the idea?

But you know what my all time favorite RFC is? Routing Morality Section Requirements

That and the one for sending TCP over semaphore flags or whatever.

Anonymous

"Likelihood of misuse by depraved or sick individuals. This
subsection must fully address the possibility that the proposed
protocols or protocol extensions might be used for the
distribution of blue, smutty, or plain disgusting images."

forest

:P

Anonymous

"Care and concern for avian carriers. A duck may be somebody's
mother."

Anonymous

HAHAHAHAHA

Anonymous

9:59 AM

AHAHHAAHAHAH

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