The Sphinx's Lair

rand al'thor

00:00

what are whitespace-only edits? I don't understand the debate here. Does this mean editing a question just to add lots of paragraph breaks?

@d'alar'cop Hi! :-)

d'alar'cop

hi rand :D

rand al'thor

long time no see...

(I can't get the other damn site to work)

d'alar'cop

yes, they spotted some white-space only edits and "asked" me to stop

they made some major updates recently

try going there... and go CTRL+F5

rand al'thor

what kind of updates?

d'alar'cop

to the chat and other things

it's better and better

rand al'thor

00:03

oh ... I thought you meant negative changes :-p

d'alar'cop

noe

*nope

rand al'thor

(I'm used to 'updates' of phones or software or whatever always meaning making it worse)

d'alar'cop

so you wanna to join the mystery of the white-space only edits?

lol.. indeed

Doorknob 冰

@d'alar'cop "some"? I'm honestly confused as to why half of your revisions page is "added 2 characters in body," not changing the post at all.

rand al'thor

Ctrl+F5 has no effect for me at the other site

d'alar'cop

00:05

what browser do you use?

interesting, what is this strange mystery...

any ideas rand?

rand al'thor

in Opera, I get an 'update your browser' message when I try to log in; in Internet Explorer, I just get 'cannot display webpage'

d'alar'cop

have you tried chrome?

rand al'thor

haven't got it

just tried Firefox and got 'problem loading page'

d'alar'cop

you just tried it just now?

rand al'thor

yep

d'alar'cop

00:07

@Doorknob冰 I just checked my revisions page... it is in no way half

and not chrome?

rand al'thor

re. whitespace edit mystery, I have some ideas which I feel I shouldn't air here...

no, haven't got chrome

d'alar'cop

lol... these guys also feared the worst it seems

well you shouldn't need to download chrome just for something like that

firefox really should work

rand al'thor

@d'alar'cop - split infinitive alert! puzzling.stackexchange.com/questions/5190/… :-)

d'alar'cop

lol

Doorknob 冰

@d'alar'cop Yes, "half" is an exaggeration, but why so many edits that have no purpose? Note that every edit bumps the post back to the front page; please avoid making very minor edits for this reason.

d'alar'cop

00:09

I was once asked how I feel about them

it worked for Star Trek :p

rand al'thor

is this the reason for your edits - because it bumps the post back to the front page?

d'alar'cop

oh I see...

that's a good theory

but even that... which does make sense... is not the reason

rand al'thor

you sound like avi now

d'alar'cop

(I will stop.. since it seems like a problem... but I just want to sort this out)

Doorknob 冰

@d'alar'cop So what is the reason?

rand al'thor

00:11

@d'alar'cop Be careful with that; if they think it's subversive, they might suspend your account

take it from one who knows :-p

d'alar'cop

let's call the edits... "a minimal edit that does not modify the content or display of the post"... so why would one do this, which seems a token edit, when it's not just to bump the post?

well we're just having a conversation.. I don't see the issue

heavy-handedness is the word of day again :O

@randal'thor I'll raise a ticket about your browser issues

rand al'thor

@d'alar'cop - You're not ... ahem ... putting in hidden content in your edits, are you? Far be it from me to suggest anything ... ahem ... naughty - you know that sort of thing can get people ... ahem ... told off.

d'alar'cop

:p

nope, not possible if it's literally 1 or 2 chats

*chars

rand al'thor

thanks for raising a ticket :-)

I might be OK on Monday, since my work computer will probably have newer browsers

d'alar'cop

no worries.. done

hey rand, your "Murder on SE" is going to be the 4th most viewed question on P.SE :D

and 2 of the 3 above would be "Closed" :p

so, 2nd most viewed legitimate question

rand al'thor

00:20

wow

I knew that would get lots of attention

d'alar'cop

seems like no one.. even these SE experts can't figure out this white-space thing

* face palm *

rand al'thor

hmmm...

d'alar'cop

I wonder if the reasonable and friendly Jon Ericson could figure it out...

the new de facto mod around here

or let's say at least.. "the mature and even-headed enough"

BY THE WAY, I will actually not stop doing it.. (contrary to what I just said).. because I just found a META.SE post supporting me

I feel bad that I ruined the fun of playing the villain against the trigger-happy amongst us

@Emrakul @Kevin <opinion request>

I guess since I've ruined the fun already (of being presumed guilty in such a rude manner in a hilariously heavy-handed way): meta.stackexchange.com/questions/24544/…

rand al'thor

I don't think I understand what's going on here

d'alar'cop

well I was feeling quite accused about the white-space thing... it came up not as a question..

it came up as a "you are doing something weird and we command you to stop"

i.e. not from a place of respect and trust.. as though amongst friends and community members

rand al'thor

00:33

well, that's what they're like, right?

d'alar'cop

well I always hope for the best you know

rand al'thor

ever the optimist :-)

d'alar'cop

:(

rand al'thor

the last two emails from avi were hilarious!

d'alar'cop

it becomes clear and clearer to me that I'm not amongst equals and friends..

yes, he's great.. I sent one too

oh wait.. different thread.. avi was at it in both threads

rand al'thor

00:36

you will be amongst equals and friends in the new place :-)

d'alar'cop

:D

anyway, since they aren't interested enough in the community to sort this out.. I'll be off I suppose

rand al'thor

have you seen my last email (just now)?

d'alar'cop

use my other email address

rand al'thor

hang on a sec

d'alar'cop

yep, just by luck - I check that one rarely

:)

rand al'thor

00:40

funny thing with this whitespace mystery

so what are the most viewed qns on P.SE? I've lost all my privileges, and I'm not sure if I can see those stats any more

d'alar'cop

what does that have to do with the white-space thing? :p

35

Q: A man pushes his car

A man pushes his car. When he arrives at a hotel, he knows he is bankrupt. What happened? There is one answer I am looking for (hence the brainteaser) (and in an unconventional way, hence the lateral-thinking). Please put your answers in spoilers.

25

Q: Mysterious Murder Mystery

Last year, December 21, 2013, you were awarded the "#1 Detective in the World" for solving more than 50 murders. Your boss gave you a promotion, contingent upon your moving to Chicago. You agreed and took your new position. Your boss told you that you would be taking a plane to Chicago, the ticke...

logic-puzzle brainteaser word-problem riddle mystery

rand al'thor

nothing, I just scrolled up and remembered you'd mentioned it

d'alar'cop

21

Q: Nobody knows me. Nobody wants me

You are going through the belongings of your recently deceased uncle and come upon a small wooden box with the following inscription, presumably describing its contents. Those who take me, won't know me. Those who know me, won't want me. Those who want me, will make me. Those who make me, will g...

brainteaser riddle

47

Q: How to get to an island with a tree in the middle if all you have is rope?

There is a small island in the center of a lake. The island has a tree on it. You have an unlimited length of rope. You can't swim or touch the water but you have to go to this island. How will you get there? This was a Google interview question a while ago. I answered that I'd tie the rope to s...

lateral-thinking

I spoiled the mystery already.. did you see the meta link?

Something along the lines of this: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/24544/…

rand al'thor

are you doing whitespace edits on your own posts or other people's?

d'alar'cop

other people's mostly

I have yet another reason for editing my own like that... which I can stop (not a naughty or selfish reason)

rand al'thor

00:44

@Doorknob冰 - He's not being naughty or selfish, you don't have to worry!

so you're editing people's posts ... so that other people (or you?) can undo upvotes/downvotes?

I didn't realise there was a time limit on undoing votes

d'alar'cop

:D

this little charade was to illustrate the the time-limit is a stupid aspect of it

because if you have over 2000 rep it's nullified

and it adds the ridiculous sideeffect that it must be edited somehow

so this would merit a main meta psot

rand al'thor

ah right, I've just read random's answer to that meta qn

d'alar'cop

but I'm not going to do that :p

rand al'thor

no, life's too short

d'alar'cop

indeed

rand al'thor

00:46

we have better things to do

d'alar'cop

we have better things to do

ah :D

rand al'thor

GMTA? :-)

d'alar'cop

:D

I guess I'll just tell you why I edit a few of my own like that..

rand al'thor

(me and the lurking mods)

go on

d'alar'cop

for a period recently.. certain people.. were complaining about how everything is crap..

especially on the front page

rand al'thor

00:48

I noticed :-p

d'alar'cop

so, I selected a few questions which were technical precise and good.. and bumped them

the ones of was most familiar with were a few of my own (for obvious reasons)

rand al'thor

dear halo?

d'alar'cop

hmm.. not sure

because the complainer was involved in CS.. I pushed more algorithmic ones

rand al'thor

I put the dear halo riddle on that new page in Area 51 :-)

d'alar'cop

I noticed :0

:)

rand al'thor

00:51

and at least two of avi's, I think

d'alar'cop

:D

rand al'thor

I haven't used up my 5 yet

d'alar'cop

you're awesome

rand al'thor

I really liked Victor's strategic plan

maybe he's a general IRL? :-p

d'alar'cop

I haven't put any yet... but I've used all my votes

he's South American... severe strategies like that are a first resort

rand al'thor

00:53

Chavez was some sort of military genius

user61230

@d'alar'cop Please keep edits substantial. Thank you!

d'alar'cop

hey @Emrakul , would you like to ask that question on meta on our behalf?

main.meta.. since you are involved there

sure mate.. I hope you read all my reasons for doing so

it's a stupid charade I know... but it's due to shortcoming in the system I'm sure you understand

rand al'thor

@Emrakul - It would be nice if you addressed the issues that led to d'alar'cop making whitespace edits, instead of just issuing a decree

d'alar'cop

@randal'thor what a wise comment. PS: I'm sure Emrak is already in the process of thinking about that

wisdom and fairness has most always been his calling card after all

rand al'thor

and he's even been known to have a laugh with some riddlers!

d'alar'cop

00:57

he even indulged in a laugh at the fiasco the other day :D what a champ - doesn't take himself so seriously

rand al'thor

really?

user61230

@d'alar'cop No, I'm not going to ask about keeping edits substantial. The system is designed this way for a reason. However, if you have a question about why the system works the way it does, you are wholly free to ask it on the main Meta or on the Puzzling meta, or alternately would like to ask about a way to do what you're trying to do, you can absolutely ask that.

d'alar'cop

I think maybe you misunderstood..

user61230

Hm?

d'alar'cop

it's not about substantial edits.. it's about vote reversal

especially when you have more than a certain rep

meta.stackexchange.com/questions/24544/… - see the last answers (from a high rep user)

@randal'thor still, the trust and respect situation alone is enough to leave really

rand al'thor

01:02

yeah, the environment is really bad here

that was always the worst thing about SE for me

d'alar'cop

yes, I've walked away many times for the same kind of reason

3 I think...

when I come back I tend to come back to a totally different SE

same result in the end though

rand al'thor

yeah, the same s**t always happens in the end

I came to P.SE and really enjoyed myself here for a while (which is why I got over 2000 rep vs. about 300 elsewhere), but all good things must come to an end

d'alar'cop

yes, similar story for me I'm afraid

sad because, according to them, you should really be the kind of person they would want around here

a professional.. an expert etc

rand al'thor

maybe we should keep an eye out for new SE's and just join while they're young and healthy

d'alar'cop

that's what I though I had done here..

*thought

rand al'thor

01:04

before the [...]s take over

d'alar'cop

I got here when there were only a couple of hundred questions.. and few active users

rand al'thor

and you're still the top user? :-)

d'alar'cop

after only 3 or 4 months in beta

:D

so I thought... oh great.. I got in early for once..

I think I can summarise the issues with SE in one word: "heavy-handedness"

2

it's a common complaint really

rand al'thor

if things had turned out slightly differently, you might've been a mod! :-o

d'alar'cop

lol :)

I actually wanted it briefly.. I thought it might be good for us..

but forget it

it's over I think

plus I have other stuff to do :p

rand al'thor

01:06

I have some questions about mods that shouldn't be said here

d'alar'cop

no

we have an issue in an SE like this... something like.. who will police the police

we have no fair channels for talking about the middle management...

as is the norm in most things really

rand al'thor

Police police police police police police police police ;-)

d'alar'cop

lol

nice.. I'd never heard that one

what if a user in a position like yours were a respected academic... an expert let's say... the system failed completely.. and there's no accountability... and you are treated with disrespect by, let's face it.. a kid

a kid put in charge by god knows who

rand al'thor

seems that fiasco on Wednesday only failed because of police police in the form of Robert Cartaino ... what happens if Robert's off sick next time the P.SE mods get trigger-happy?

3

star that, will you? :-)

d'alar'cop

indeed.. the police police loool :D

rand al'thor

01:11

thanks :-)

d'alar'cop

looks like you and I are the only ones who care really..

since no one else is here :p

and we're precisely the ones who are leaving for good it seems

rand al'thor

yeah, but people might come later on

or might be lurking

d'alar'cop

:p

rand al'thor

you get the point anyway; I just said that for the benefit of others who might not

if the mods are actually benevolent and care about the community, that might help them to realise where our concerns lie and try to address them fairly

if not, they'll probably just delete our whole conversation about it

d'alar'cop

yes, and we only say it because we care

lol... indeed

rand al'thor

01:14

it's a test :-)

d'alar'cop

censorship is the name of a certain game I can remember

rand al'thor

we'll see

a lot of comments on The Mods' Big Meta Post, and on Robert's answer to it, got deleted without explanation

why do they want to cover up what happened?

what are they so afraid of???

d'alar'cop

yep

all the comments on my large-comment were redacted too

rand al'thor

do they really think we're so powerful? (Bertolt Brecht, I believe)

d'alar'cop

nice

yes, what is the reason.. .or the fear?

pity our other chat system is down... maybe its fate

rand al'thor

01:17

and nobody can fairly say I've been offensive in my last few chat posts here

d'alar'cop

nor mine (I don't think)

rand al'thor

TAKE HEED ALL! If they get deleted, think on why!

d'alar'cop

(of any of them ever really actually)

rand al'thor

(well, avi told us about some deleted posts where he actually was getting rude)

d'alar'cop

did he? I missed that

he's direct and honest..

rand al'thor

01:19

he was quarrelling with AeJey, I think

d'alar'cop

apparently that means "rude"...

to the censors

oh yeah.. right.. :p

that was pretty brutal

rand al'thor

yeah

d'alar'cop

avi was hurt

rand al'thor

I can't remember what his grievance was ... did AeJey VTC one of his qns?

d'alar'cop

and I respect it when people just deal with things

yes he did... after avi had suggested we invite him :(

and the VTC was totally illegitimate

d'alar'cop

01:31

well I guess we vote with our feet then

AeJey

07:24

Yes. I did VTC one of his posts. And I think it was the one which was confusing. I am not justifying what I did, because I don't think I did anything wrong. It was not clear and also he claimed that that will be his last post or something like that. So I VTC as not clear. Still I didn't down vote the post to affect his reputation.

It was truly unclear in its first format (unedited version). Later after edits, the question seems legitimate to me too.

A E

12:17

@randal'thor hello! time-zones, remember. :)

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