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2:11 PM
A cryptic clue consists of a definition part, which needs to be something that at least kinda-defines the actual answer, and a wordplay part, which constructs the answer according to a fairly strict set of rules. Sometimes there's something like "is" or "yields" between the two.
So far as I can see, there is no part of the clue that defines SEASHELLS.
And so far as I can see, you haven't given any explanation for the part of the clue that says "An algorithm to cut off", nor why SHELLS would come after the "underwater stuff".
Also, the sea isn't underwater. The sea is the water.
 
user478740
How 'bout you, Gareth? What do you think?
 
If you mean what do I think the answer is, I don't know yet. There's a famous sorting algorithm called SHELLSORT but I don't see any way to make the wordplay yield that and it would be a bit inelegant to have SHELLS right there in the clue if that's the answer.
 
user478740
I'm good at making CC's, but bad at answering them :(
 
I wonder whether somehow we're taking SHELLSORT and "cutting off" SHELLS to leave ORT, but there doesn't then seem to be enough clue left over to fit in the remaining wordplay and a definition.
 
@GarethMcCaughan I'll dispute that last point (but agree with the rest). When we refer to something as being "underwater" we mean it's beneath the surface of the water. So — only when needed in a word puzzle and never in real conversation — I think it'd be fair to refer to the water itself as "underwater".
 
user478740
2:15 PM
I even made 3 different CC's myself if I was next in the CCCC
 
@msh210 Maybe. But you also thought it was fair to define TRASH as "An old saw ends like this", so ... :-)
 
:-D
 
user478740
Guess there's no chance of me giving out my CCs, hmmmm :(
 
@Anonymus25 Might I recommend that, the first time, you get someone to test-solve it before you use it?
 
Very good idea.
 
user478740
2:16 PM
That works!
 
user478740
But how?
 
1
Q: A simple puzzle with a bit of thinking

AnonymousHere is a simple puzzle, can be challenging as well. How can you divide the board into exactly $2$ equal-shaped pieces such that it fits the hole? Bonus: Can you do the same problem in $3$ pieces, such that one of the pieces of the board has the sides of a square? If no, then what is the minimu...

-1
Q: Is there any triangles named with three letters?

GabbieMy name is Gabbie and I have a question today. Can any triangles be named with three letters?

 
@Anonymus25 I wouldn't say that. Read the guide linked to above; read other clues and their solutions; and you'll get better at solving.
@Anonymus25 Don't worry. There are ways. When the time comes, you and your solver can figure it out.
 
2:36 PM
If you just want to know whether your clues are legal, you can post one with its intended wordplay so we can check it
 
But of course you can't then use it for a C4.
 
Some help me figure out what to do: is this question Needs More Focus because it asks two related questions that will have quite different solutions?
 
SHELLSORT is not the answer, but you're on the right track (to some extent).
 
I'm trying to learn how to use my new close-vote abilities properly
 
2:51 PM
@bobble a good idea. is it just me or is the text in here a bit bigger?
 
I'm not good at spotting that kind of stuff
 
nvm
 
I'm going to bed now, and I'm rarely online on weekends. I'll try to come and see how it goes as often as possible though
 
okay! see you!
 
@bobble Yeah, I'm not sure if this question needed a close vote. I don't know what you voted but I'm not sure why it was voted to be closed
Why are they saying it's speculative? The correct answer was already found, no?
 
2:54 PM
I didn't closevote that, and I usually don't pay much attention to riddles
 
I'm usually pretty I guess "strict" in regards to what I close-vote (I close vote frequently) but even that was just random
 
The other answers don't fit the riddle as well (my opinion). Yeah, I wouldn't have voted there.
 
Was it a bad riddle? I thought so. Did it deserve to be closed? Not really
 
To be honest, I think most of the riddles here are low-quality, simply because people think "ooh, I'm smart with my misdirection" and then it just goes off the rails
Some are great, however
 
One thing I do have to say about Riley Riddles in all their annoying crap is that they are straightforward
Like great riddle design
Just way too overused
 
2:57 PM
sometimes the affixes are clued too indirectly, though
 
To be honest I don't care for Riley Riddles, if only because they're so overused and they're so vague and hard to approach.
 
I've ignored and have my settings so that I don't see anything tagged with it.
 
True. I think the concept behind Rileys are pretty great though
 
3:21 PM
@Ankoganit heh
 
@bobble Didn't even think about that, now I have it set to "ignore" as well
Good idea
 
4:04 PM
i just made a glucose molecule out of glucose molecules
 
I can do that too. In fact, I only need one.
 
no i mean like one of those ball-and-stick models
 
(I know -- I was just making a joke.)
 
:)
 
Nooooooooo I failed my math test
 
4:06 PM
how badly?
 
@matt I think either 6/9 or 5/9
And the thing is, it's not that I didn't know, I was just tired and I wasn't really awake
The stuff I missed wasn't stuff I didn't know, I just didn't process
Like one of them was like "least number of imaginary numbers"
And I made like the chart for Descarte Rule of Signs
And then I put 2
Even though I literally wrote zero in one of the columns
 
not good
 
Another one, I forgot that imaginary numbers come in conjugate pairs so I put down the least number of roots as 3
 
:(
 
4:09 PM
I think the answer was 4 or 5 I'm not sure
The pinnacle of my failiure is demonstrated in one of the answers where I put (rad2)^2 as 4
 
what is rad2
 
√2, I assume
mistakes like that happen - no need to beat yourself up over it
 
square root of 2?
@Deusovi I have a C- in that class though
 
the best way to get better is practice
 
I really needed this quiz to boost my grade, but it's going to drop me back down to probably a D+ again
cries
 
4:11 PM
@Deusovi i second this
@NorthLæraðr my dog's internal monologue: "everything'll be fine, hooman"
 
what
 
I'm just not awake today
 
doggo-speak: "then take a snooze"
 
you need some more sunlight! got to get that photosynthesis started
 
4:14 PM
indeed
here, North.. teleports my meta-glucose to you
 
The worst part is I knew how to do it
But I don't get any partial credit for that kind of stuff
Last year, my teacher gave partial credit if he at least saw your work and where you messed up
Getting the answer was only one portion
 
Screaming religious excrement! (4, 4)
 
coughs I gave partial credit
 
This is multiple choice though :(....
 
well that sucks (no i won't post this on r/wellthatsucks)
 
4:19 PM
These errors were just so
sigh
 
would you like some bobblies to do a bobble-dance just for you?
 
Whatever, I'll stop ranting on this chat
@bobble That would actually be adorable XD
 
they bobble up and down and say "baa-boow, baa-boow"
 
Hahaha
 
and they go in little circles and jump all over each other
 
4:21 PM
oh btw what was the cccc solution?
i missed it
 
T+RAIN
No
T+RASH
 
HOW
 
Precipitate means RASH
part of "T"he I think?
 
Avi
@msh210 omae wa mou... shindeiru
 
4:22 PM
the definition is the really tragic part
 
Yeah
How were we supposed get TRASH as "An old saw ends like this"
 
by figuring out the wordplay
 
> You already. .. .. Squeezed
 
@Deusovi idk. Msh kinda sus
 
what does "sus" mean here?
 
Avi
4:26 PM
@matt ????
 
@Avi google translate
@bobble suspicious
 
Avi
It means "you are already... dead"
 
not according to google translate
 
Avi
google translate is wrong then
this is a well known phrase
or wait
it means "do you want to die"
apparently idk
or possibly, "how do you want to die."
implied
idk
I have 0 knowledge of japanese
 
why are all those lines really short?
 
Avi
4:29 PM
ask me to do Spanish translations and I might have some guesses and intuitions (with google translate's help lol)
@bobble which lines
 
the chat messages
each on its own line
like this
 
Avi
their length indictates the maximum extent of my knowledge of japanese
5 hours ago, by Ankoganit
Maybe the real C4 solution is the friends we make along the way
@bobble :(
I didn't like this clue because I thought the definition didn't work at all, and sacrificed Sciborg's hair for the pun
 
@bobble i recommend reading seximal.net/punctuation
 
4:48 PM
@bobble Sus means suspicious. It's like a meme reference
 
me not good with da memes
 
Me neither, except I play games so
 
It's an among us thing, I think?
 
Yea yea
 
Avi
"Orange sus - he ran out of medbay and we found dead bodies in there shortly after"
 
4:51 PM
Msh is imposter he sus
 
Avi
Msh's clue was the imposter
 
@north liked your conlang puzzle!
 
Thanks!
 
@Avi and we are the dead bodies
 
Avi, that's enough.
 
Avi
4:52 PM
@matt yeahhh
 
@Deusovi w- ?
 
@matt Hehe lol as soon as you said that I got a downvote. The irony
 
Avi
@matt basically, I didn't like the clue at all, to the extent of directly insulting it
too far, but it was suspicious, for sure
 
@NorthLæraðr hmm
 
Hm, I feel like I did something wrong with the puzzle in order for Gareth and his algorithm to be stumped
 
4:55 PM
<leaves to take a test>
 
Avi
good luck
 
meanwhile my ridiculous conlang still hasn't a complete phonology
 
don't you generally make the phonology first?
 
that is what i am doing
 
Avi
do you need a phonology?
 
4:56 PM
...yes?
 
Avi
I would just make a bunch of verbs
and some rules for conjugation
 
unless your conlang happens to only be written
the phonology is literally the set of sounds you can make
some languages have different sounds than others
 
Avi
@Deusovi isn't that the intent?
 
in this case i don't need a phonology except to read my words
 
Avi
unless you actually want people to speak your language outside the puzzle
 
4:57 PM
which i do not, at least not yet
 
well, grammatical rules are generally based off of sound rather than spelling
 
so i do need a phonology
 
and you should have a consistent allowed syllable structure to even begin to form words
 
Avi
I see, I'll stick to grid deduction then
 
(e.g. spanish has "busco"→"busqué" because it's based off of sound rather than spelling - it's not "busce")
 
Avi
4:58 PM
mmm, makes sense
so exceptions in spelling match consistencies in language
 
if you do have exceptional spelling, yes
even if your spelling is perfectly regular though, there's still a lot of important things to do with a phonology -- it allows you to define phonotactics, the rules for how syllables should be laid out
for instance, in english, we have the rule that /h/ can never be at the end of the word, and /ŋ/ (the "ng" sound) can never be at the beginning of one
 
So many stuff to consider
 
so like codas and nuclei and stuff?
 
that's why "hing" sounds like it could be an english word (even though it doesn't mean anything), but "ngihh" doesn't
 
@NorthLæraðr exactly, which is why i have enever tried making a conlang before
 
5:00 PM
@matt exactly
 
@Deusovi Ah
 
@Deusovi my favorite example is "ngarf" (thanks, jan misali)
 
That's kind of cool, actually
 
other languages do allow words starting with /ŋ/ - to them, it might not seem out of the ordinary. and of course some languages have different sounds altogether - my favorite is the welsh lateral fricatives.
(put your tongue in the position like you're making an "l" sound, but instead breathe out like you're making an "h". the air will flow around your tongue and it'll give a weird hissing sound that kinda sounds like "sh")
@matt (jan misali's great!)
 
@Deusovi Oooooh, that's fun
 
5:03 PM
there's one language with [ŋmkpɾ]
@Deusovi YESSS
 
(been watching his stuff for a few years now, big fan)
 
i've been watching his stuff for like 2 months, love "w"
 
@NorthLæraðr it is! that's the ll in welsh, which you might know from the name "lloyd" (which is sometimes transliterated to english as "floyd" -- hopefully you can see why!), or as the first sound of "llanfair pg", the really long welsh town name
 
ah yes, llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch
 
@Deusovi hhhyyoid?
 
5:05 PM
@NorthLæraðr that's how it's pronounced in welsh!
(assuming "hhhyyy" is an approximation of the voiceless lateral fricative sound)
 
That's really really fun to do
@Deusovi Yeah, I can't really described it in English
 
in the ipa it's a "belted" l
 
ɬ
but yeah this syllable structure difference is one thing that makes different languages sound different! some languages are a lot more restrictive - spanish, for instance, doesn't allow /sk/ at the start of syllables, which is why "school" (from latin "schola") becomes "escuela". they can't start syllables that way - it's not a natural thing
 
ngarf
also how did you type that fast
@Deusovi interesting!
 
spanish has also loanworded the english "snob", and it's loaned as "esnob" for the same reason
 
5:08 PM
@Deusovi Wait is it "i" as in "ee" sound right?
 
@NorthLæraðr huh? /i/ is the vowel in "beet", but i didn't mention that anywhere
 
@NorthLæraðr spanish <e> is [e]
 
in spanish that is indeed the /e/ vowel, written "e"
 
> (put your tongue in the position like you're making an "l" sound, but instead breathe out like you're making an "h". the air will flow around your tongue and it'll give a weird hissing sound that kinda sounds like "sh")
Oh "L"
 
ah that's a lowercase l, not an uppercase I
 
5:10 PM
Do you pronounce the l and then do the hissy hissy at the same time?
 
uppercase I in here has serifs unless on mobile
 
you don't actually pronounce the L sound
you put your mouth in the position to do that, but instead you make a hissing sound
 
Oh oka, so I have been doing it right
 
I also like /ç/: it's like /i/ but hissing kind of
hue
 
oh yeah, was just about to mention that "hue" has it
 
5:14 PM
0
Q: Mystery of the two hearts

risky mysteriesThere was this popular girl in Facebook who had many followers. One day, she posted this post in her Facebook for fun and engagement: It's lazy facts day! Comment one lazy fact down below! So the lazy facts started pouring in. There were "The sky is not always blue", "Chocolates are sweet", "I...

 
resists urge to go down the linguistics rabbit hole
although i am a bit confused about palatals: how is /c/ different from /tj/?
 
put your tongue in the position to make a /j/ sound, but just make a /t~k/-ish sound instead
 
t~k meaning either one, or?
 
you're looking to make a sound "in between" them, so either one probably works as an approximation
 
my tongue lacks the necessary maneuverability
yeah i'm just saying /t/
 
5:21 PM
i think it's very similar to /t/ but your tongue should be touching further back in your mouth, instead of on/near your teeth
 
hmm
 
(but i have trouble with palatals too)
 
Avi
it's like shloyd
:(
and very difficult to do
 
@Deusovi these darn palatals
 
@Avi I'd say it's more like hhhhyyoyld
 
5:22 PM
labializations are like the easiest for me
 
Avi
@NorthLæraðr if your tongue is lower
 
21 mins ago, by matt
there's one language with [ŋmkpɾ]
 
5:44 PM
I ran out of time! Never happened to me before
One of the questions required writing down a lot of equations, and I spent >10 minutes trying to write down the (obscenely long) notation
 
:(
 
Avi
The Art of Uncertainty, a book by Kood B. Wright
Escape Artistry, a book by Ron A. Way
The Nature of Fate, a book by Dustin E.
Finding the Unfindable, a book by Still C. King
 
6:04 PM
what is the limit of your puns?
 
Avi
On Religion, a book by D. Vout
I'm looking for 26 puns, one for each letter of the alphabet
want to help?
 
I have a "mandatory" pep rally right now, so sure
Small-Time Fines, a book by J. Walker
hehe skipped ahead
 
Avi
Virtues of Voodoo, a book by F. E. Gee
hmmm I would like a clearer F one
 
Can't Keep a Date, a book by Anne X.
 
Avi
Pure Productivity, a book by F. E. Shent
 
6:13 PM
Half the Universe, a book by O. Snap
not sure about that one
and "mandatory" pep rally is over, so bye!
 
Avi
ok, see you :)
Avoiding War, a book by Rey Few G.
 
Avi
6:28 PM
Growing a Nest Egg, a book by H. E. Ken
this one isn't valid, but it's punny
Revenge, a book by I. Í.
(i foreign i, or "eye for an eye")
 
i keep getting timed out :(
 
Avi
it's probably lag that would do something like that - check internet connection?
 
also i like bobble's can't keep a date
 
Avi
that one is good - it's in the list
same with the jaywalker one
 
what other letters do you need?
 
Avi
6:38 PM
i, k-w, y-z
H was a toughie
 
Agreement, by O. Kay
idk
 
Avi
Anger Management, a book by I. Rate
Cluelessness, a book by Nu I. Dea
False Charges, a book by I. Awn
which one do you think is best?
 
i kinda don't get any of them tbh
why even are you doing this?
(says the one making the worst conlang ever)
 
Avi
irate = angry
not quite the person to be writing a book on anger management
cluelessness embodies somebody who has "no idea"
Charges, ions
 
i see
 
Avi
6:49 PM
Arctic Expeditions, a book by I. Sickle
 
Vision, by I. See
there's one!
no that one'sdumb
gvh4btgt
 
Avi
it's not dumb, it's just more straightforward
I'm aiming for a little bit more obscurity, but not so much that nobody can figure out what I'm doing
(which is why I scrapped the "Revenge, a book by I. Í." one)
Atlantis, a book by Sunk I. Land
I like this one
 
yeah
I.C. could also work for Canada
 
Avi
7 mins ago, by Avi
Arctic Expeditions, a book by I. Sickle
Icicle
 
Procrastination, a book by Lay Z.
 
Avi
6:56 PM
nice!
The Open Door policy, a book by Y. Doe Pen
 
nice
:)
 
Back to the Start, a book by W. Tern
 
Avi
isn't that U. Tern
 
double-U turn
so you turn 180 twice
 
Avi
that means you keep going the same direction
 
6:59 PM
how about double u-turn
 
yeah, back to where you started when you started turning
 

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