The Sphinx's Lair

They have indicated that the definition half is "wordier than I would normally" and "slightly less exactly matching," which does make me think there are some unnecessary words

matt

hello gentlepeople

@Sciborg i see you have upped the profanity level

Deusovi

unnecessary, maybe, but there should be a parsing that includes them (even if it's just a wordier indicator)

Sciborg

Fair, yeah.

I'm still clinging to my conspiracy theory that the colon is important somehow

matt

i also see you have had several cccc theories

Sciborg

I'm in a mood to attack it even if all my guesses are completely off base lol. Still fun to try

matt

1:49 AM

if you o end up getting it, remember to scream HOLY SHIT :P

Sciborg

I do really love Deus's idea from earlier that "like this" could be "e.g."

matt

seems plausible

Sciborg

But according to my puzzling tool, the only five letter words that end in "eg" are "Repeg" "Squeg" and "Unpeg"

user478740

@Sciborg Maybe oxygen or hydrogen? The four gases conain them

Sciborg

@Anonymus25 Not five letters though.

user478740

1:52 AM

Hmmmm

Bubbler

Someone mentioned "sic" too

Sciborg

@Bubbler "sic"??? Oooh, what about "BASIC" then? As in acids and bases

user478740

HOLY MOLY

user478740

HOLY SHIT YOU SOLVED IT, MAYBE

Sciborg

No no Anonymus25 I have to solve the wordplay, this is just an idea.

matt

1:54 AM

hey @north!

Bubbler

Yeah, I was also thinking of BASIC

North Læraðr

@matt Hi

Sciborg

If we consider BASIC, then we'd have to figure out where the BA- part comes from

Bubbler

Again, time to find what it has to do with an old saw...

user478740

Scissors that cut?

Bubbler

1:55 AM

Ba is barium, which is an ion

Sciborg

@Anonymus25 sorry what?

I also thought of barium yeah

user478740

wait, ion?

Sciborg

But I don't know how "an old saw" hints at that

user478740

Maybe salt?

Bubbler

Then an old saw must be definition part

Sciborg

1:57 AM

@Anonymus25 I don't know what on earth you are talking about

user478740

Salt is salty on the "cutting edge", and it comes from old times

matt

salt = NaCl but idk how that is relevant

@Anonymus25 what

Sciborg

Yeah I don't know what the f*ck they're on about either

user478740

Get it? An IDIOM!

matt

no we do not get it

user478740

1:58 AM

Like one of the options earlier!

matt

honestly, you are making no sense

user478740

CUTTING EDGE, THE IDIOM

Sciborg

........????????

user478740

Whatever

matt

"on the cutting edge" -- meaning "almost"

Sciborg

1:59 AM

I always took "on the cutting edge" to mean being on par with new technology.

I have no goddamn clue how that connects to salt

user478740

Oh, thought it means really, or greatly

matt

nope

Sciborg

Anyway... @Bubbler if "an old saw" really is the definition then I'm back to square one

user478740

If it did, I could have said HOLY SHIT I SOLVED IT

matt

unfortunately now is not the time

user478740

2:01 AM

Maxim? I googled an old saw and as a crossword clue, it meant MAXIM

Sciborg

I do like the idea of Barium because that is always found in compounds in nature, hence why it could be part of a precipitate

But I can't see any clues for that in the puzzle

matt

hmm

@Anonymus25 mm idk bout that one

Sciborg

Like if it was BA + SIC, but where would the BA be hinted

user478740

It could be the phrase "As the story goes"

Sciborg

@Anonymus25 but where is the wordplay and how is it five letters?

I guess MAXIM actually could be an option but again I don't see any way that fits

user478740

2:05 AM

OMG I googled it and it said BANAL meaning in a crossword clue "Like an old saw"

user478740

BA+NAL

matt

sometimes googling leads you down nonexistent rabbit holes

Sciborg

@Anonymus25 ??????

Deusovi

cryptics follow a very specific set of rules. it's not just "any word of the right length that can be associated with something in the clue"

user478740

NAL AS IN CANAL

Sciborg

2:06 AM

@Anonymus25 Please reference puzzling.stackexchange.com/questions/45984/cryptic-clue-guide to understand how these work

matt

wtf does canal have to do with anything!

Deusovi

that's not how cryptics work at all

I'd recommend reading through my guide and trying some easier ones (maybe Kegler's?)

matt

you can't just reference any damn word

user478740

Whatever, back to the drawing board

user478740

What are the current possible choices?

Sciborg

2:07 AM

I appreciate that you're trying but it's not helpful to anyone if you just spam the chat with random words and don't make an effort to genuinely understand the puzzle.

Deusovi

what do you mean by "possible choices"? there are many different words that it could be, not a fixed set we're looking at

matt

agreed, @Sciborg and @Deusovi

user478740

I mean, the ones we know so far

Deusovi

people have had lots of theories, but none of them could be made with the wordplay (as far as we can tell)

matt

it could be any one of those or none of them at all

Deusovi

2:08 AM

and cryptic wordplay has a very specific set of rules that I'd recommend you learn

matt

the point is we don't know what the choices are

user478740

ANODE, BASIC, IDIOM, ANION, COLON, BORON

matt

or maybe it's something else we have not considered yet!

Deusovi

BASIC seems unlikely to me - I don't see any definition that could fit that. ditto for ANODE

and of course it could be another option, as matt said

it definitely can't be COLON. please, read about how how cryptics work

user478740

Ok, erasing

Sciborg

2:10 AM

COLON only came from me jokingly asking if the punctuation was important, it's not the actual answer.

BASIC did also seem unlikely to me but it was interesting if "like this" meant "sic"

Deusovi

hm, that's a possibility!

a very interesting one

matt

indeed

[sic] does mean "this is not a typo or anything"

Deusovi

I don't see any way it can fit BASIC unfortunately, but "like this" = SIC is definitely something we should keep in mind

(the literal meaning in latin is very close to "like this", iirc)

user478740

SIC means JUST AS

Sciborg

@Anonymus25 As Deus said earlier, two layers of synonyism are not usually required.

matt

2:13 AM

@Deusovi sic means "thus", "just as". in full it is sic erat scriptum meaning "thus was it written"

:)

user478740

Hmmmm, well, at least we have a possibility to keep in mind

Bubbler

5-letter words ending in -sic: basic, mesic, music

matt

power of wolfram alpha right there

Sciborg

MUSIC would be interesting if the MUS- part is maybe MUS(-E), but that's a big stretch

matt

hmm

Sciborg

2:16 AM

And it doesn't seem to relate at all to the precipitate part

Bubbler

Or a wild thought: If "like this" is "e.g.", it might be that the dots are to be substituted with a letter, so it's _e_g_

Sciborg

@Bubbler That's WILD and I love it, but maybe too stretchy.

Deusovi

that seems very unlikely to me

matt

_e_g_ matches 33 words according to wolfram alpha

Bubbler

Agreed, just a random idea

Sciborg

2:17 AM

Now you have me wondering if the ... part is important

But again, unlikely

matt

all three letter words (large post, beware):

oh, yep, it is too long

Sciborg

uhhh

Deusovi

yeah uh no need

Sciborg

lmao "here's all three letter wordS"

"warning: might be 5 GB"

matt

ooooookay then

user478740

2:19 AM

@Sciborg lol

matt

anyway

Sciborg

@matt didn't mean to sound so snarky, sorry :p

matt

:|

Sciborg

aww no come on, you know i love you <3

user478740

Ok, while back in square one, is there anything else to talk about?

Deusovi

2:23 AM

uh, not particularly

Sciborg

We're just brainstorming mostly, we're not discussing specific things in particular

@matt Will you forgive me if I tell you I started making the bobblie today

matt

@Sciborg you do? th-thanks

@Sciborg YESSSSS

Sciborg

I can only hope they don't multiply and overtake my apartment

matt

the smaller your apartment the quicker it will happen

Bubbler

If they can multiply, they can overtake the universe in no time

matt

2:30 AM

oh shit

Sciborg

oh lord

matt

that is not good

@Sciborg fortunately i can assure you they will not multiply

however they do encourage you to make as many as possible

Sciborg

My apartment is doomed

matt

and i won't ask how big your apartment is -- that's just weird

Sciborg

I mean I'm a millennial so it's absolutely tiny lol

Also I have a really crazy idea: What if "precipitate" refers not to the chemistry precipitate, but rain?

matt

2:35 AM

@Sciborg how did we not think of that?! let's see what we get

Deusovi

it's possible! I also proposed that it could mean "steep" or "fast", which are two other meanings of the word

(the former is more commonly "precipitous")

matt

the anonymous penguin triplet has returned

Sciborg

In which case, "part of the precipitate" = "part of the rain"... so maybe WATER?

matt

YESS

get ready for this.......

Sciborg

Or DROPS?

user478740

2:36 AM

Didn't I say that when I thought of BRAIN?

matt

@Sciborg argh i was just about to say HOLY SHIT

user478740

Blank+rain

Sciborg

@Anonymus25 ...????

matt

you are confusing as ever, @Anonymus25

(no offense but you know what i'm saying)

user478740

@Sciborg It's way up in the chat, stacked by other chats

Sciborg

2:37 AM

If it's WATER, then we still have "An old saw"

hmm

user478740

WAT IS AN OLD SAW? (WHAT)

Sciborg

@Anonymus25 Please don't take this the wrong way, but stop and read how these work

Bubbler

2 days ago, by msh210

CCCC: An old saw ends like this: "… part of the precipitate." (5)

user478740

OK, sorry

Bubbler

This is the clue, and every word in this clue must make sense

Sciborg

2:39 AM

Are there other five letter words that could work if we assume "precipitate" means rain?

WATER and DROPS is all I have so far

Bubbler

Are there any non-5-letter synonyms to ADAGE or IDIOM? To check if any of them have a usable suffix

matt

thesaurus.com is really not helping today

bobble

@Sciborg CLOUD? SLEET?

Sciborg

@Bubbler Other options for that could be SAYING, PROVERB, STORY, TALE, YARN

user478740

MAXIM, like I said above

Sciborg

2:41 AM

@bobble I like those!

matt

@Anonymus25 this has no relation to rain

user478740

@matt Try oxford

Ankoganit

I am thinking 'saw' isn't supposed to be interpreted as 'adage', else they could have just used 'adage'

matt

interesting theory @ankoganit

Sciborg

@Ankoganit Potentially

Ankoganit

2:42 AM

@matt uh wrong ping?

Bubbler

rain, storm, acid rain...

matt

@Ankoganit sorry about that

Sciborg

But if we interpret "saw" as a tool, that doesn't seem to give me any insight

Or the verb "saw"

matt

yeah neither of those make sense

bobble

this CCCC is hard

Ankoganit

2:43 AM

@matt np

matt

special thanks to @msh210 for making another impossible fricking CCCC

Sciborg

@bobble Agreed, this one has maddened me for days now

bobble

maybe if you finish the bobblie, it will solve it!

matt

@Sciborg maddened all of us ... *angry HOLY SHIT*

@bobble good idea, however i doubt @Sciborg wants to be sewing at 7:44 pm

user478740

HOLY SHIT WHY IT'S SO HARDDDDDDDDDD
DD

Sciborg

2:45 AM

What I find super interesting is if we interpret "precipitate" as "rain" it suggests something found in rain, like maybe... a chemical? Which makes "precipitate" a really cool double meaning

Ankoganit

ooh

bobble

ACIDS?

user478740

WHOA

bobble

WATER, for obviousness

user478740

HAPPY HOLY SHIT

Sciborg

2:45 AM

@bobble ACIDS could work but what's the wordplay?

bobble

shrug

I'll stare at it for a bit

Bubbler

water... vapor? no, that's not part of precipitate

user478740

Hmmmm, wait, are ions contained in rain?

bobble

ions are in everything, but that's 4 letters

Deusovi

ions are contained in most things, but not to any extent that i would single them out

Sciborg

2:46 AM

@Bubbler Water vapor is an interesting thought

Deusovi

yeah, i was thinking along the lines of SLEET but got nowhere with that

user478740

So, ions are in WATER!

matt

> Rainwater is a mixed electrolyte that contains varying amounts of major and minor ions. Sodium, potassium, magnesium, calcium, chloride, bicarbonate, and sulfate ions are major constituents, together with ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, nitrogen, and other nitrogenous compounds

basically, yep there's ions in water

i doubt it is of any importance though

Bubbler

we already considered plenty of ions

Ankoganit

apparently VIRGA is a kind of precipitation

probably not useful

Sciborg

2:48 AM

@Ankoganit VIRGA is something I saw also, but I'm not sure of the wordplay there either

Ankoganit

yeah, same

Sciborg

I do love this train of thought, but I'm still so stuck on the intent of "saw". That seems to be our big hang-up

bobble

One problem here is that the definition is "slightly less exactly matching the answer" than usual, which makes more words possible :(

matt

some maybe brain-calming music for you, of course taken from Trek: youtube.com/watch?v=wc_0ii3SLp0

Bubbler

Inside a cloud, there are water droplets and tiny ice particles

user478740

2:50 AM

@msh210, you have succesfully maddened the whole PSE

user478740

At least, those in The Sphinx's Lair

matt

HOLY SHIT MSH STOP TORTURING US

Sciborg

I'm on the verge of tearing my hair out over what the goddamn heck "an old saw" means

matt

please don't do that

bobble

you'd have to take off that lovely hat

Sphinx

2:51 AM

1

Q: A worthless little puzzle

A quick puzzle to pass the time. Find the three word passphrase from the clues. You will know the answer when you see it. Clues: ale/ail/gale conal/vane Nero/sib oiler/piper rant/wallow

password

user478740

I just want to fu**ing rip my clothessss

Bubbler

dew, moisture/moist, fog, mist, ...

matt

to hell with the interrupting Sphinx

anyway

will be back tomorrow

looking forward to the bobblies, @sciborg!

Sciborg

@matt good night <3

matt

(:

Sciborg

2:57 AM

This is probably incredibly silly, but I need silly ideas at this point to shake me out of the mental rut I'm stuck in. What if we interpret "an old" as the slang meaning "an old person" (urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=An%20Old), thereby making "saw" the verb and "ends" a noun?

That's very likely the dumbest idea I've ever had but hey, it's a thought

bobble

wouldn't the tense be off?

Ankoganit

why?

bobble

I feel like it should be "saws"

can't explain why

Ankoganit

i think they mean "saw" as in "did see"