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18:04
@HopelessN00b Ohio might, we have a pretty good beer culture here. North Carolina? Probably wouldn't understand.
@ScottPack As his brother you should bring him drinkable beer...
If only that's all it took, I somehow doubt Budweiser and Coors and the other assorted piss-water beers would be America's best selling.
18:20
iPhone 5?
So, I try not to be a Fanboi one way or the other, but the iPhone 5 looks completely uninspiring to me
@ewwhite Nice, but not nice enough to make me upgrade before next may when I'm eligible.
The people at this company are all droid users.
@Chloe ANR earpiece is a nice feature, New connector is good for driving (orientation-independent), battery life is better.
beyond that nothing earth-shattering
Where do I post to ask why my "99% accept rate" doesn't say 100%. I'm anal and wanted to get it fixed. I've accepted answers for all questions.
18:22
@TheCleaner You need to accept an answer on someone elses question now
2
Q: Tool for automating Windows tasks that require input on a server?

TheCleanerCan you recommend software that records what you are doing and then plays back the commands as well as allowing you to save that recording and set it up as an automatic task? The reason I ask is because I'm struggling with automating a manual task because I don't have a way to pass the inputs to...

@TheCleaner Meta, but don't obsess :-P
Do closed questions count? I'd hope not
Chloe, that's probably it...it was probably a closed question that did it to me
@TheCleaner That one I linked doesn't have an answer, either
Gah! good find that was it. Odd that my profile never said "Have you considered accepting an answer for this question?"
Thank you...back to normal.
@TheCleaner Haha
Well, it's official.
@GeorgeEdison Excellent. Now the next bad migration they make you unplug them, yes?
@voretaq7 It gets better:
@GeorgeEdison Damn straight
@GeorgeEdison :D
I've heard of VPS hosting and shared hosting - but never recursive hosting.
@GeorgeEdison that's not better :((
@GeorgeEdison it's fine -- just bill each other and it cancels out
@GeorgeEdison they are probably just confused by self hosting ... who in thier right mind would do THAT
18:37
It still gave me a chuckle.
I was expecting it to say Peer 1.
@GeorgeEdison they are probably doing soemthing stupid like just doing a lookup for DNS servers, and if DNS servers are the domain, then doing a reverse on the IP (which we have set to edge.stackoverrflow.com or something like that)
@GeorgeEdison Howdy! You should stop by and visit us more often.
@Zypher Probably.
Hey, quick query for the Linux admins in the house... Is configuration management of ESX hosts with Puppet or Chef a good idea, or does them running ESX bork that horribly somehow?

I ask because I'm not looking forward to manually configuring a few hundred ESX hosts over PuTTY, for some reason...
@HopelessN00b Silly.. not necessary.
There are better tools for mass management of ESXi hosts.
what are you planning to do?
As for other things, I just got a note from a customer...
"An employee was upset about being transferred to another department. As a result, she deleted a bunch of files from the shared drive and her My Documents folder."
18:48
Just standardize and manage a lot of configurations across all our ESX hosts... things like LDAP auth, creating local service accounts, logging levels and locations, and some level of version control on the damn things, all of which are different depending on when they were put in. I'm tired of digging through a 127 row spreadsheet to find the u/p to SSH onto the damn things, for starters, and everything connects to them as root (like our monitoring system), for finishers.
The client tells me today, 6 days after it happened.
@ewwhite Fire employee, pay me $250 an hour to attempt software data recovery on Windows..
@ewwhite I hate to sound like Topper from Dilbert, but that's not all that bad.
@HopelessN00b I do so much data recovery for this site.
So, frequent customer discount... $200/hr?
18:49
I have daily tape backups, but the customer hasn't changed the tape in a few weeks.
So you have "a day tape backups"
@chriss Yes. It's supposed to be a 14-tape rotation.
But I can't force the customer to rotate them.
@ewwhite Sounds to me like they cheaped out and got rid of the IT staff they had but don't want to deal with IT stuff either?
@Adrian Just people being busy.
@ewwhite Get 'em to spring for a D2D backup system, like an Avamar? Only ~$100k for a single node system, with high retention and worth every penny.
18:53
@HopelessN00b ESX or ESXi?
@HopelessN00b Shouldn't that number of hosts be on ESXi by now?
@ewwhite A risk one takes, I guess. One of our bosses has a needle-point "picture" on his office wall that says "Some things are so important, they're worth doing badly".
@HopelessN00b If not, treat it like a RHEL4 system and script it.
@ewwhite One battle at a time. But there's better mass-management utils for ESXi, that might help me fight that battle better.
18:55
@HopelessN00b who has that many ESX hosts? in one location?
Enh, sadly, no experience with RHEL4, beyond generic "applies to any Debian-based distro" stuff.
@ewwhite Not all in one location, but lotta blade servers in HP blade centers.
@HopelessN00b Oh, any Linux setup would apply
@ewwhite Alright, thanks... I might go that route then... on the other hand, maybe rolling out Puppet or Chef in this environment would be a relatively easy way to boost my enterprise Linux skills and have something to add to the ol' resume...

Anyway, off to the weekly time-wasting, bullshit change review board meeting.
@ewwhite shadow copies on the file server..
@HopelessN00b I have a great suggestion.. vCenter! It's actually made for managing esx/esxi! :-)
anyone having any EBS issues in us-east-1a?
19:06
so, iPhone 5, huh
not a single ounce of anything we havent already seen
"doubling down on secrecy"...?
@HopelessN00b Could be worse. The Change Review could be a closed process that exists only in your boss' head.
2
Q: Can splitting an access database cause printer and reporting issues?

leeand00We have a setup in which our users log into an access database using MS Access 2003 over an RDP connection. The backend database (.mdb) is accessed by our users with their frontend database (.mde) and secured through a security database (*.mdw). The user's login to their own machines first usin...

I stopped reading at "We have a setup in which our users log into an access database"
@pauska It was a Samba server
@ewwhite ugh :<
Fireable offense? Deleting files en masse...
19:15
@ewwhite Yeah. On the other hand, some states don't allow forcibly moving someone from one job description to another, and most unions take significant umbrage to that as well.
all droid fanboys in here?!
There's several iOS fanboi's in here too
nobody that wants to talk about it with me :(
I'm not one of them. I like my phone hacked. =]
*cough* Blackberry *cough*
19:23
Apple sucks. More so today than usual.
@Greg You better cover that up before someone spots you and throws you out with the rest of the lepers.
Punks... all of you!
hahaha
All phones suck.
AAPL's at $660 when I looked just now... I should have bought when they crossed $400.
19:25
should have bought 10 years ago
@ChrisS You'd still have paid way more than it's worth.
People buy that stock because it makes a product they understand and like.
At any price
The C-Levels here all have the 4S. One had a problem the other day and mentioned the Genius bar at the local mall. I laughed out loud at him. I told him he'd need to make an appointment and they'll be booked about 36h+, so I hope he wasn't in a hurry to get his phone fixed.
@Basil AAPL P/E 15.50 Assuming they've got any sustainability that stock is underpriced.
I was at the SoHo apple store last night, hence the photo...
I hate how effective apple is at convincing barely-computer literate people that they're really good at this stuff. When they aren't.
and the Genius Bar line was nutty
19:28
Also; didn't like the size of the memory card in my android; just popped a 32GB card in there the other day. Much more breathing room.
so maybe I'm the sucker.
@ewwhite amazon.com/DisplayPort-Female-Adapter-Macbook-Laptop/dp/… <-- Holy page hog batman! Point is, it's $5.
@ChrisS No, that's a single-link DVI...
I need DUAL-link... to drive a 30-inch Apple monitor at 2560x1600
Well you could run it off single-link if 17Hz is acceptable to you. =]
Why the heck doesn't the display have DisplayPort or HDMI?? Or is this an old monitor?
@ChrisS Mac Cinema Display...
30"
most 30" monitors seem to need dual-link
19:40
I don't know about the Cinema Display...
The HP monitors we've been getting have DP, though no daisy-link DP yet.
sooooooooooo how about that local sports team eh?
I suppose DVI-DL wins over HDMI depending on what frequency you're running:
DVI DL maxes at 3840 × 2400 @ 33 Hz and 2560 x 1600 @ 60 Hz
HDMI maxes at 4096 x 2160 @ 24 Hz and 1920x1200 @ 60 Hz
DP maxes at 3840 x 2160 @ 60 Hz
@DJPon3 Ug, the Lions looked ugly, really ugly in their opener.
oh dear
Not as bad as that Raiders long-snap center though.
I suppose that's all gibberish to someone who doesn't follow American Football.
i think our HR team may be mostly devils.
yes pretty much. Anyone for Cricket? ;-)
19:50
Cricket?!? How about Rugby?
probably more rugby weather than cricket weather right now to be fair
@ChrisS newest HP thin client line is now without DP.. 2xDVI..
At least I know most of the rules for Rugby, even if I don't care for watching it all that much, unless nothing else is on.
hello again folks
@pauska When did the thin clients ever have DP?
19:51
true. at least it's vaguely watchable.
if I find the answer I seek, may I award myself my own bounty?
thin clients with DP?
@ChrisS t5740/t5740e has them
hello
yes
though i'm not sure what that does
thanks @DJPon3... I asked earlier what happens when a bounty expires with no acceptable answers
(according to what an acceptable answer is)
(which is defined)
19:53
its probably the same thing.
and I heard I lose it :P
and I wanted to in turn award more bounty after this bounty expired
@mbrownnyc "No. This used to be possible, but it has been disabled. The user would not get the reputation back, and the bounty will be displayed as +0, “this answer has been awarded bounty worth 0 reputation”."
^ I stand corrected then
@pauska Humf... Well the new one you can put a PCI card with 4x mini-DP ports in it. Close enough.
@ChrisS still.. DP was supposed to be next great thing, with the daisy chain stuff..
19:55
@pauska Yep... Still would be if someone would flipping make a monitor that supported it.
the trouble with the next great thing is that it's frequently superceded by the next great thing
Also, USB over DP would be nice for the ports on the monitor....
@ChrisS and redesign the connectors.. regular DP breaks way too easy
we've had atleast 5 different people who flipped their monitors 90 degrees and broke off the plug
@pauska I've not had any problems; I unplug a DP cord from my laptop nearly everyday too.
@pauska Interesting... Is that the cord that's breaking?
@ChrisS no, the actual plug
it breaks off from the metal connector
20:01
So the connector in the monitor breaks off?
@ChrisS I think that'd be the socket. Mayhaps the plug breaks off in the socket?
That's what I thought I was asking, but I guess I'm confused.
@ChrisS Doesn't Microsoft make a DisplayPort Manager?
@MikeyB Yep, correct. Have to use tools to get it out etc.
@pauska Is it the mini-DP cables breaking?
20:06
:(
@MikeyB I don't know of MS making any DP hardware at all. Maybe I missed something
@ChrisS I was trolling - They do make MSDPM (Microsoft Double-Penetration Manager).
That's MS SC DPM
So I had to wipe my BB and thus lost the Blizzard Authenticator data and had to upload govt photo ID to Blizzard to remove it from my account (not like I've logged into it in a few months). I was tempted to include in the picture a penis beside the photo ID.
@ChrisS Tomatoes, Tomatoes.
@MikeyB While that would be humorous on some level, the poor support worker who got to stare at it doesn't make policy decisions, and the decision makers certainly wouldn't see or even hear of it.
20:13
@ChrisS Yeah, the thought was just enough to make me grin and think "I could dickslap Blizzard."
20:26
@MikeyB Problem is, the support worker would just click the 'denied' button.
@derobert That's the other thing :) Don't piss off the people in a position to help you.
Email the dickslap pics right to the product manager.
@MikeyB Or equally importantly, "in a position to hurt you".
... which is of course why you be nice to your sysadmin :-P
Groundhog Day. I think it's Groundhog Day.
DBA asked me what it meant when they couldn't get through to the database service on a system socket.
@Adrian Same as it was yesterday.
@84104 Exactly.
20:33
Is @Chopper3 around?
This guy is spouting, what I believe to be, nonsense about vSphere
"In a server that does not suffer from resource contention, this reservation should do absolutely nothing" - theoretically it is correct, but practically, small CPU reservation helps and I do not know why. Also, it is a quick thing to try and does not hurt anything :) In my current setup, I do not do any CPU reservations per VM, but on resource pool level. — Serhiy 23 mins ago
He's saying that there is a performance boost by giving VMs a 1MHz CPU reservation, even on servers that have absolutely no resource contention
That makes absolutely no sense to me.
@MDMarra Sounds like a bug to me if it's true.
Judging by his other comments on that Q, he's clueless
And/or goes by his "gut" and doesn't have measurements to back anything up.
@MDMarra It's one thing to go with your gut. It's another to assert that you're right simply because your belly is rumbling after your lunch and having a conference bridge with the voices in your head...
Yep. He also says that VMs are faster than physical on the same hardware.
The performance hit for being virtual is minimal, but there is one. Things don't run faster just because they're VMs. Virtualization isn't a magical unicorn of serverland.
@MDMarra It makes sense if and only if the reservation keeps you on the same CPU (avoiding cache invalidation)
but VMWare resource reservations don't guarantee that.
20:42
Even if that were the case, would it be measurable?
Seems like it would be the difference between a fraction of a second and a fraction of a fraction of a second
@MDMarra Running faster in a VM than on physical hardware IS possible though -- it's totally a corner case and usually involves lots of network I/O that happens to be faster in the VM, but it's vaguely possible.
@MDMarra Depends on the frequency of cache invalidation and how CPU-intensive the VMs are. I doubt it'd be appreciable in the general case.
@voretaq7 If two VMs are on the same box, then yeah network IO will be faster between them, but not regular network IO
@MDMarra @voretaq7 "my personal experience is that, in most cases, VMs are faster and more responsive then physical machines"
@ChrisS That dude sounds like he's basically just making it up as he goes along, right?
If we had a wall of shame, that would deserve to go on it.
20:44
@ChrisS yeah that's mostly bunk. I have seen better disk I/O speeds though
e.g. takes less time (wall clock) to install Win7 in a VM than it does to a physical box.
@Serhiy As a community of professional systems admins, we value empirical data, not gut feeling. There is an overhead to a machine being a VM. Because of this, most VMs take between a 2-5% performance hit (depending on hypervisor and configuration) vs being run directly on the same physical hardware. If you're going to go against the grain with your comments, you need to back them up with data. We're all open to alternative views, but in something as cut-and-dry as performance, you're going to have to supply reliable data to back up claims like that otherwise you wont be taken seriously. — MDMarra 10 secs ago
@voretaq7 That can be explained by the install enumerating less devices and not having to search for a bunch of devices
A VM is going to have a known set of mostly compatible virtual hardware out of the "box"
Whereas when you do a physical windows install, it has to enumerate all of those unknown devices and hunt through the driver store for each one before marking it as an unknown device
@MDMarra I see the same performance jump on BSD and Linux installs too - can't say for certainwith Linux but I know BSD device enumeration isn't that much of a difference. It's actually measurable at the copying-crap-to-disk stage
I've always chalked it up to disk-to-disk I/O speed rather than CD-to-disk with a physical install
@MDMarra I'm a mod, why the heck can't I do more than one +1?!
@ChrisS NEED MOAR SOX!
It could also be explained by more compatible out-of-the-box storage controller drivers in a VM vs. oddball storage controllers on a physical box?
20:51
I'm a mistyper too... Oy.
@MDMarra I will say I see the same spin-down on my VMs where if they're idle for days and I log in they're slow. It's possible having a CPU reservation keeps them "hot" in VMWare
but that's not documented anywhere AFAIK
@voretaq7 What version of ESXi?
I don't think I've ever seen that on 4.1 or 5.0
@MDMarra ::checks::
@MDMarra In order to answer your RIDICULOUS query I first have to start up a virtual machine running windows so I can connect to the hypervisor running the virtual machine running Windows to ask its version number.
(or install the VMWare perl API on my mac, but that's HARD.)
@voretaq7 heh
I think there was a ruby interface written for *nix a while ago
Not sure what the status of it ever was
@MDMarra vmware.dev is ESXi 5.0.0, 768111
20:56
Hm
@MDMarra "unofficial" I think, same as the perl API
Yeah
hmm?
Actually, the VMWare perl scripts are officially supported, I believe
Earlier 5.0 builds were worse about it and 4.0 was ABYSMAL
20:56
But there's a GUI client written in Ruby floating around
VMWare questions?
@MDMarra they might be but they're definitely third-class citizens
What did I miss?
Some guy saying VMs perform better than physical on the same box
@ewwhite we've decided to virtualize you. Now strip naked and get on the VConverter.
20:57
and saying that giving all VMs a 1Mhz reservation increases performance on a box with no contention
Use @chloe for that..
Also, disregard @voretaq7 and keep your clothes on.
@MDMarra you're next. Don't MAKE me get the probulator!
@MDMarra looking at it now
If VM's were faster, you'd see the financial industry all over it...
20:58
What have I walked into here?
That's my stance... with the amount of tuning and research we did... VM's were definitely excluded as not being responsive enough in realtime environments.
@ewwhite If VMs were faster we'd be putting VMs, in VMs, in VMs, in VMs... Inception style.
@ChrisS Like all of the questions about virtualizing ESXi?
@ChrisS I'm pretty certain that's what the cloud is
21:00
I did like that movie, maybe I'll watch it again tonight.
@MDMarra asked him for refs, he's talking shite
@ChrisS It was that very sort of logic that bothered me through most of the film.
@Chopper3 I thought so too. I figured if anyone would know whether that was a super-secrect VMWare god trick, it would be you.
@MDMarra Where is this?
I linked to comments from it earlier
2
Q: Best Practice - SQL 2012 & IIS in VMWare

Dan RibarWe are pretty new to VMWare and looking for some thoughts on our environment. We have a VMWare cluster that has on one host: VM#1: MS Windows 2008 R2 Enterprise & SQL Server 2012 VM#2: MS Windows 2008 R2 Standard & IIS The IIS asp.net app talks directly to the SQL Server. We had this s...

21:05
@MDMarra Man, I'
am busy here. Can't scroll up
I'm trying to be a productive member of society..
instead of leeching off of hard-working Ammmmurican taxpayers...
@84104 That each dept of dream occurs faster than the last? Yeah, it was a thorn in my mind; but I could get past it... Sort of like suspension of disbelief for magic in movies.
@ChrisS Likewise.
@MDMarra you need to log in on the hypervisor console and type iddqd :)
Let me go try that...
@voretaq7 A code that will forever be etched in my memory. Like idfa
21:20
xyzzy
We should have a "Give game cheat codes out as genuine answers" day
2
@Chloe idKfa :-)
@ChrisS plugh
Dongled...
@ewwhite ...what's that one from? :)
@ewwhite . . . wow - ah the game of life!
That's me, marveling at the cable snake coming from the left side of my MacBook.
All just to run this monitor.
21:26
security.stackexchange outs a coming SSL exploit: http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/19911/crime-how-to-beat-the-beast-successor/19914#19914
@ewwhite Hey now! Leaching off the taxpayers is a time-honored tradition!
@voretaq7 Holy shit
@Chloe yah
FYsI - httpd (Apache) 2.4 has `SSLCompression Off` as a configuration directive.
I see no equivalent for 2.2.22
Um, nobody is running 2.4 yet because it's not compatible with anything....
This may be a problem.
@ChrisS Yup. This hole is a Big Fucking Deal (Cooke IDs and the like are short enough that this attack IS practical)
there are some other annoyances around it, but trouble can be made from this.
21:35
How hard/expensive would it be to get a Smart Card and sart card reader for logon to my personal Windows 7 computer?
is it do-able for cheap?
Or does one have to buy like 100/1000 cards at once
@David I'm sure it's all built in
Right, time to get a brew from the bar and get to bed at a reasonable time for a change
@Chloe G'nite!
Sadly, we're still 2-3 hours from Miller Time here on the US West Coast.
Timezones!
@84104 werd
@David Readers are definitely cheap as chips, and I don't think the cards are expensive either
21:39
@David Yeah real cheap. You can get Dell keyboards with smart-card readers built in for basically shipping costs on ebay
You can get NFC smartcard readers for about $80 if you want something a bit fancier
(log on with your Android phone maybe?)
Cards seem hard to come by on eBay but when you do find them they're cheap: ebay.com.au/itm/…
21:54
Even there, 10 @ once
can I write with a reader?
or do I need a fancy ass expensive writer
Would like to store Windows credentials and a digital signature as well
similar to a CAC card the US Govt/Military uses
NFC can send and receive arbitrary data. So no problem there.
usually come in packs of 10.
Nobody buys servers anymore - wired.com/wiredenterprise/2012/09/29853
you can google smart card writer and get a bunch of USB reader/writers for like $20-75 :-)
22:07
@ewwhite Above a certain number of servers it seems more appropriate to build them yourself and support them in-house rather than rely on vendor support contracts.
But the CLOUD is taking over.
This new job is all about CLOUD...
But you can have YOUR OWN cloud instead of someone else's!
so after seeing the client list... it's nutty. Companies see no reason to deal with sysadmins anymore.
Nope, all those servers will just build and run themselves. All you need is somebody to wander through the data center sprinkling pixie dust on any misbehaving servers...
This firm has a lot of clients... many of which are happy to outsource their infra
A customer just called... "We need 7TB of [additional] SAN storage... quick!"
2
22:14
@ewwhite "Quick"
Hey, I outsource all my infrastructure.
@MichaelHampton You do?
@ewwhite It works out much better than trying to run servers in my house.
I jumped on EC2 almost the moment it was first released.
22:18
@MichaelHampton Early adopter
It solved a problem, what can I say. I did run servers in my house before EC2.
Today I'm mostly off EC2 and mostly on a nice VMware provider.
@ewwhite Time to go get that forklift operator certification, eh?
@Adrian Mayybe... This place is hiring... so if any of you fools want to come to NY
Also had a bunch of boxes colocated in various parts of the country. Virtualization (and later the "cloud") saved me a lot of cash. I still have to deal with running the virtual machines, though...
@ewwhite Yeah, except that the pay would have to 3x what it is in Seattle.
22:25
(although, they seem to allow remote work)
I'm only in NY for a couple of weeks. I'll work out of Chicago.
Seriously though @ewwhite, everytime you talk about this I'm more inclined to stay here for a few more years and go back to school for something more hands-on and low-tech.
They can't out-source electricians yet.
@Adrian I seriously can't tell... I can give an overview of this company.
I saw myself as needing to be on one side of the cloud... either as a consumer or as a provider.
and from what I can see, the companies who use MY firm have talented systems people... who simply don't deal with hardware.
It's all applications and database stuff... leaving the hardware to us.
it also removes the requirement for good networking folks on staff... since many small firms can't keep the interest of the best networking peoples
but there's a team here stationed in the data centers.
@ewwhite I'm thinking a lot about focusing more on the networking side. Should've listened to one of the guys I rode the bus with back in the mid-2000s who was pushing me to go Cisco.
Probably be making 2x the cash now.
@Adrian I don't think so... The key here seems to be application and DB knowledge
@ewwhite Yeah, that's what I used to do. App and DB knowledge was always a dead-end niche at all the places I've worked and interviewed with though.
22:32
But as a managed provider...
different story
We'll see. I'm still learning what's up here.
@ewwhite True. Just need to find an MSP to work for
That's what I'm doing, apparently.
@ewwhite I'm not overly surprised that the industry is going there though. That's pretty much what William Gibson was describing in some of his CyPunk books from the 90s.
Things may take longer to get where the visionaries are going than people expect, but it gets there.
Crazy, though?
@ewwhite Gibson wasn't crazy. Strange, but not crazy.
Dammit. This project is going to turn me into a Wordpress Plugin Dev before I'm done with it.
22:43
@Adrian Run for your life!@
@MichaelHampton Yeah. Essentially the technical understanding of our staff is so low that I have to build the internal site in Wordpress. But that means I need to write a bunch of stuff for WP to do things like SSO into our decripit old NIS.
Of course, I'd LOVE to get rid of NIS, but this project bumped all the prerequisite infrastructure projects that would've made the WP project easier.
@Adrian Fortunately it's not terribly hard to do SSO with WordPress. Usually.
So, just out of curiosity... who would you feel sorrier for?

A "sysadmin" with 15 years experience working for ~50k/yr (USD), or the shop that hires a guy with 15 years experience at that rate (and has no idea why it's going to be a disaster)?
@HopelessN00b Are you kidding? 50k is the going rate for sysadmin work outside of the large cities.
You're not getting 'DevOps' admins with programming ability out in the sticks, of course, but that's a decent IT wage out beyond the suburbs.
I think the theme park up in Northern Idaho is paying about that to their Director of IT.
fuck.me.bandy. serverfault.com/q/426899/1435 clueless twat
22:54
I'm out of close votes.

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