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6:00 PM
The fact that directory creation doesn't have an option to create parent directories with puppet triggered some nerd rage in me yesterday
The abstractions generally seem weak as well
appleinsider.com/articles/12/08/21/… <-- Ever wonder if Apple intentionally breaks shit in the .0 release so people will be happy when it's "fixed" a month later in .1?
@KyleBrandt FWIF radmind loses its shit over that too
If it can't find a path to where it needs to be it bails
think the primary problem with DevOps tools is that they're written by DevOps Devs.
Would probably work better if they smoked less weed.
Lotsa questions...
Ivan, Prague, Czech Republic
522 3 23
Yes, in all fairness though, there probably are not many people with Ops skills that are also experience language designers
@KyleBrandt in all unfairness, THEY USED FUCKING RUBY - all they had to do was get the model right :)
6:09 PM
@Adrian Also, I am writing a pretty involved module, up until now I have never really felt pain with puppet
@KyleBrandt Now you know...
@KyleBrandt The rate of change in Puppet annoys me a bit too. Very little of the documentation I find is of much use since it's obsolete just weeks after it's posted.
@Adrian It's not that bad... but it's moving
@ewwhite @Adrian That's a Linux-world problem -- we feel entitled to make broad, sweeping, compatibility-breaking changes
@Adrian To use Puppet effectively, use it to manage one thing. When you figure that out, use it to manage another. It's one of the few things you really can bite off in little chunks.
6:14 PM
And you have to keep practicing...
my Puppet knowledge dried up
(from not using it for a couple of months)
Yeah, @ewwhite and I both tackled learning puppet back-to-back. I'd be lost without being able to look back on my older configs.
@JeffFerland My problem is I don't have "little things" - I have "The underlying OS", "The DBI subsystem", "the webapps", . . .
@voretaq7 Manage your ntp.conf... and step up from there.
@ewwhite cant - that's one step above where it has to start
@voretaq7 Everybody has little things. Houses are made of boards and nails.
6:16 PM
step zero is "Make the core OS the same on every machine" - until that's done I can't think about config files :-/
@voretaq7 Looking at it the wrong way.
@JeffFerland What's the right way? If I don't have base OS consistency nothing else matters.
I think you can approach config management from the "this is my pristine new environment" way, and the more common, "I need to get what's already in place under control".
@voretaq7 It should be that way. It's not. Adapt! You have a powerful set of tools that can get you there, but it's too much of a learning curve to get there all at once.
... yeah, @ewwhite said it better. That thing.
@JeffFerland to which I have only 4 words to respond with: "I can't break production"
6:19 PM
with the latter, i literally start with ntp.conf and resolv.conf...
Right now you've got the Perfectionist Procrastinator's problem. I won't touch it because I can't make it right.
@voretaq7 That's why we make dev environments :)
@JeffFerland No, right now I have a suboptimal system that gives me base OS consistency at the expense of not being able to do rule-based configuration and all the other cool shit I can do with puppet :-)
@voretaq7 what's the goal?
@voretaq7 Grab a couple machines, grab a copy of software from nimbula.com, setup your own little cloud to test on.
@ewwhite in my environment, ultimately? Probably radmind for software distribution/patching, driven by puppet (which will also handle configuration)
@JeffFerland I have a dev environment. Now all I need is copious spare time to learn a new technology that keeps changing under my feet :-)
6:24 PM
@voretaq7 Indeed. All of that would be doable for me if I were able to devote 100% of my time to technical items. The 50% that goes to supervising the padawans makes that a right pain in the ass.
If I had padawans I'd direct them to do it.
@voretaq7 Have you ever had padawans?
@voretaq7 My padawans aren't that skilled. None of them know any programming. At least none newer than the 1970s.
in the grand tradition of "This sucks. You fix it"
@JeffFerland yes. The ones that can't be handed a problem and left to do at least 80% of the work to solve it don't last long around me :)
@Iain about a week or so after we do our SQL 2012 migration (this weekend) SEDE will read off of RO replicas and be live
6:34 PM
Haven't you been saying "this weekend" for a few weeks now?
@ScottPack @Zypher has been tempting the fates a lot lately, I imagine that has pushed back some projects :)
Pardon me while I gripe a bit:
Every time I have to use DD-WRT for a client, a part of me dies inside. (I'm dying right now.)
@Nonapeptide I don't see any difference between that and [Windows,Cisco,Netgear,Dell,HP] support... and at least DD-WRT works right.
@WesleyDavid 9 lives. Suffer.
He could mean Linksys
They're branded "Linksys by Cisco" now
@voretaq7 Pussy.
6:38 PM
Really? DD-WRT and its documentation and "support" is no different than Windows, Cisco, Netgear, Dell and HP?
@WesleyDavid well if you don't read it...
HP's community forums are better than the best I've seen of DD-WRT. Even among FOSS projects, DD-WRT's community support and documentation is legendary for being bullshit.
I've never seen something more full of lore and legend than the DD-WRT wiki which cross references with the forum which cross references with the wiki.
DD-WRT's documentation is a self-refuting prophecy.
@ScottPack nope i think the first time i mentioned it was late last week (next weekend is what i said i believe)
@Zypher Lies.
6:40 PM
@WesleyDavid I'm getting to the point where I don't have the patience for digging through Google results and whatnot for documentation on F/OSS projects anymore. The shit I implement just needs to work and be supportable in a sane manner.
@Zypher You too ^^ The wrath of the whatever from high atop the thing!
I'm always appalled at the defenders of DD-WRT. I don't think any of them have done more with it than putting it on their basement router and then thinking "ZOMG I'M SO L33T!"
@Zypher thanks for the update
@Iain no problem
@voretaq7 fuck you and the lizard you rode in on - i'm going back to fixing my network :)
@Zypher See, now that's how you do it -- "fixing" the network. It's never fixed, it's never done, and the fates are happy :-)
6:42 PM
@voretaq7 Thank you for that. All that talk of swallowing and spitting...
@ScottPack . . . so if yelling_bird is having sex with a swallow and it doesn't, is it still a swallow? . . .
YELLING_BIRD -- It's DELIGHTFULLY inappropriate!
I am an angry, angry kitteh
I want to see just one person using the community DD-WRT in a business deployment with more than one access point that's not struggling with urges to self mutilate.
@WesleyDavid :squirt gun:
@voretaq7 You're not helping matters any. =(
Now I'm angry and wet.
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6:47 PM
@WesleyDavid ::brandish gun::
@voretaq7 Hey, that's a good point. Take hostages until someone agrees to pay for Aerohive equipment!
(am I the only one who uses pine/alpine?)
@ewwhite You and RMS.
@ewwhite (WWII is over, grandpa)
Not for my main mail! Just for server messages.
or something like that.
6:51 PM
@ewwhite I definitely CLI it for server messages
We had a dev who had the main web server send all errors into a gmail mailbox
That's fun to, you know, aggregate.
@JoelESalas Gnome Shell and Evolution
@JoelESalas I don't find that particularly offensive.
@WesleyDavid It wasn't but it spoke to the DEVOPS where DEVS ARE OPS
But I'm also furiously embittered because of my morning with DD-WRT, so all rational thought has been disabled for a while.
eats broken glass
@WesleyDavid ::squirt gun::
That always slays me when I forget to go to the new MVLS site.
6:57 PM
@WesleyDavid That's hot.
@WesleyDavid I tweeted that like 3 months ago you lamer ;-)
Oh, in case any of you care. Mod elections are on-going over at sec.se.
@WesleyDavid See Also: licensing.microsoft.com
@KyleBrandt I'm still telling Mitch Hedelberg jokes though, so there's that.
In a Windows domain environment, is it customary to have user accounts that are not tied to a person? Like having a user account that exists for the sole purpose to access some file share, which is then only used by a certain application to fetch some data?
6:58 PM
@ScottPack I made sure to vote for everyone that wasn't you.
Or are problems like that approached differently altogether?
@WesleyDavid Yess...I see you voted 15 hours ago.
@OliverSalzburg Possibly. There's also now Managed Service Accounts which make it even easier.
@OliverSalzburg Very common for resources / applications to have user accounts.
@jscott I'll look that up. Thanks
6:59 PM
@OliverSalzburg We call those "Service Accounts" and yes.
http://licensing.microsoft.com/ ... because a 301 redirect is too hard?
@KyleBrandt Soooo. depraved minds think alike?
Okay cool. Thanks :) @ScottPack @WesleyDavid @jscott
@OliverSalzburg I taught @scott everything he knows.
@OliverSalzburg They're also recommended because, in a perfect world, you can limit down privileges to that account to exactly what it needs.
I've seen too many cases where someone writes an app that uses their own account to do things, then they leave. Disabling accounts in that situation is a freaking nightmare.
7:03 PM
httpcats.herokuapp.com <-- There's a thingy to retrieve them now.
@voretaq7 Oh, that should be my away response :-)
Going to have a very pointed discussion with the padawans. 4 days after I did a workstation install for a new staff member, the summarily pulled the workstation without communication to customer staff, communication to other IT, or network re-configuration.
Just got a very nasty note from the staff member's supervisor asking what the fsck is going on with it since it's been gone for over a week.
^ I like that one.
@Adrian . . . beat them sensible?
@voretaq7 Don't stop until you see marrow.
time to migrate from rackspace!
7:09 PM
hmm, I didn't think I had enough rep to vote on security.SE
@OliverSalzburg Yep
In fact, if you want to do certain things like SQL Server replication, you need them.
(No one chime in about MSAs. If you've ever seen anyone get them to work properly, I'll FedEx you a cookie)
@MDMarra Oh, I assumed you're all referring to MSAs :D
@voretaq7 I'd like to. I can't seem to get through to them that the communication is more important than the actual work being done.
@voretaq7 Only takes 150.
@OliverSalzburg Managed Service Accounts look cool, but I've heard of people not being able to use them in SQL Server 2012 AlwaysOn configs and similar situations
I stick to regular domain users with limited privs when I need an account like that
7:14 PM
@MDMarra What do you put in the First Name/Last Name fields?
@voretaq7 Unfortunately that one of the problems I have with my boss. 99% of his time and brain bandwidth has eaten up dealing with Development issues for the in-house app's EHR certification effort for the past 8 months or so.
@MDMarra I didn't realize that was an option. Awesome
@voretaq7 We're friends, right? :)
The only two attributes that you need to create an account are SamAccountName and Name
7:15 PM
@lsiunsuex Weren't we just talking about using a cell phone for high-availability email?
@MDMarra Ah, good to know. Thanks
I think if you're creating the account via the GUI, you need to put a display name in too
@ScottPack's getting out the vote... Dammit :P
@ewwhite yes we were - and hosting websites
But if you create it from the command line you only need SamAccountName and Name. If you only specify one, most tools will use the same for both
7:15 PM
@MDMarra Yeah, I'm still very much tied to the GUI.
@JeffFerland Some of these people are interested, if not active. I thought it worth announcing. :)
@JeffFerland $5!
I'm slowly starting to realize that the CLI seems to have become more of a first-class citizen than I initially assumed.
I've decided to start selling my vote in the upcoming US elections
@voretaq7 total voter fraud!
7:18 PM
President/VP: $500.
Member of the senate: $250.
Member of the House: $225
NY Judgeships: $175
NY Senate or Assembly: $150
Town Supervisor or County Executive: $125
Misc. County and Town offices: $100
@ewwhite not at all - It's my vote you're buying
those prices are for one vote, only one of each available per election cycle.
I'm thinking of putting them on etsy - "Artisanal hand-crafted vote"
@voretaq7 Put a bird on it...
@ewwhite I like bird-watching...
Especially in the summer with all the pretty dresses. Though the leggings and skirt thing in the winter is nice too.
@ewwhite a yelling_bird?
@Adrian... you're not from Portland... you don't know what's up :)
Okay, so nobody watched Portlandia...
@ewwhite I don't have a TV either. Or time to watch it. I think I've seen a couple Youtube shorts, and that's about it.
FFS. Whichever padawan pulled the terminal out of service stuck it under one of the desks with no paperwork or note. Which means they were doing work without a ticket again.
7:28 PM
@Adrian ya ever just wanna ::shifty eyes:: KillPeople?
@voretaq7 Not particularly. But I frequently desire to ask them what the fsck their problem is.
@Adrian they haven't been killed. It's a common issue.
The problem is where they can't quite grasp that the interesting technical parts aren't the most important parts. Haven't quite figure out that without the communication regarding deliverables, they haven't actually done anything at all.
@Adrian how old are they?
I didn't fully grasp that concept until my mid-20s
@voretaq7 To not wear skinny jeans?
7:33 PM
@Adrian You keep trying to turn this into a teachable moment when it really needs to be a stabby-stabby moment.
@voretaq7 Don't know for sure. Definitely 45+.
10 more days 'til I'm moved out of my apartment. Then I can start focusing on certs and other marketable stuff. =/
@ScottPack I never wore girl pants in my life. I have man parts...
@Adrian That's not good...
There are no fun technical moments in IT. Only searing bureaucratic pain occasionally punctuated by slightly less searing implementation pain.
and what's a 45-year-old doing as a padawan?!?
@MDMarra How do you manage passwords of those accounts?
7:36 PM
@OliverSalzburg notepad.exe
@voretaq7 Re-trained worker from Ma Bell layoffs.
@WesleyDavid I meant, at what intervals would they be changed, what about complexity?
@Adrian grumble grumble
@OliverSalzburg Oh, you want legit answers in here? Sorry. DaniWeb is ---> that way.
7:38 PM
@WesleyDavid I should call Dani I haven't spoken to her in a long-ass while
@OliverSalzburg and as for changing passwords for service accounts, that's painful and manual usually. Complexity is no different than other passwords. Focus on the bit entropy, not "complexity"
@WesleyDavid My mistake for not being clear ;)
twasbrilligandtheslithytoves is better than f2%gsd8i
@WesleyDavid Ah, painful, that's what I wanted to hear :D
Shoot, now I need to go change my bank password.
7:39 PM
@voretaq7 She was the best of the bunch. Of course, I've bitched about my boss' selection process before. I'm only allowed to weed out the 12 he selects down to 4. I'm not allowed to re-introduce promising candidates that he's weeded out based on their lack of knowledge/insight into our agency's social work mission.
@Adrian Boss, meet LART. LART, boss.
Does the fucking army care if you agree with what they're doing? NO. They expect you to be competent and follow your goddamn orders.
@voretaq7 The Management? They'd rather that the technical shit just barely work using caring staff that feel good about the work than spend money on equipment and staff that work well.
@Adrian Cool. Hire me - I can pretend to be incompetent for money.
I'll just create a reddit account...
@voretaq7 And there's the crux. This place is about as anti- as it gets. Status quo and protecting your position are the most important things here.
Quote literally, you have to be convicted of stealing from the agency or discovered to be having a sexual relationship with a client to get fired here.
7:42 PM
@adrian get out of there.
@Adrian It's happened before, hasn't it?
@ewwhite Working on it. More time I spend talking to you guys though, the more I discover I need to learn to fill in the gaps.
@Adrian Oh we're all hacks...
@ewwhite speak for yourself. I'm a crank!
@ewwhite Heh, yeah. 2 or 3 times. Once where his wife was also working for the agency as well.
@Adrian applause!
ok. There have to be at least a few Linux people in the room
How do I create a bootable USB thumbdrive in Ubuntu?
7:44 PM
@voretaq7 I think it's a mystery.
Resist the urge to use the answers Google provides as they don't seem to work :-)
Seriously, I use HP's USB creation utility.
@ewwhite . . . but I no has Windows
(and for some reason my virtualbox instance won't accept the USB stick... that's a Mac problem though)
@voretaq7 Yeah... that's one of those things I should know... but just can't force myself to learn.
I think I'll just cry for a few minutes
7:56 PM
@voretaq7 Crying won't format your USB thumbdrive...
@ewwhite neither will anything else I've tried!
The HR staff on the other hand have got this stuff DOWN. This is the 2nd time in 2 weeks that they've brought me cookies.
Anyone know much about contrast ratios?
@KyleBrandt In what context?
Photo? A/V?
So 4 years ago, I bought a SAMSUNG LN40A500T1FXZA
It was advertised as a 30,000:1 contast ratio
Best buy just replaced the screen under warranty, so I looked up the part number
The original panel contrast ratio, part is Model No.: V400H1 - L01, was 1800:1
8:01 PM
@voretaq7 So what OS are you trying to put on the USB stick?
The new one is V400H1 - L03 , 4000:1
@MichaelHampton Ubuntu, as built with remastersys
Either way, neither is 30,000:1, what gives?
@voretaq7 Hm, strange.
(or hell even from their ISO still doesn't work)
8:02 PM
@voretaq7 What do you want to boot on it?
@Zoredache Ubuntu would be nice
@KyleBrandt So, in other words, Best Buy is a bunch of scumbags. This is not, in fact, new news. =)
But at this point I'd settle for DOS :P
But this TV was sold at all sorts of stores for black friday
Samsung claimed the contrast ratio was 30,000:1
So if you want to go about it the hard way, then you partition the disk, make sure one of hte partitions is primary. setup a MBR/install a bootloader, install an OS onto the partition.
8:04 PM
@KyleBrandt so... class action lawsuit?
@KyleBrandt 408 Request Timeout
They're notorious for refusing to comply with state law regarding cash-back on gift cards. You have to take them to small claims to get them to comply. Which they're more than willing to do once the judge tells them to pay, but you have to go to the hassle of going to court to get your money.
@Zoredache mmhmm, tried that :-)
@voretaq7 BTW, did you say you are trying to get the USB to boot within virtual box?
actually doing that now (for at least the 3rd time) as we speak :-)
@Zoredache no - i tried to get the USB to connect in vbox to use HP's utility that supposedly makes flash drives bootable with a high rate of success
8:05 PM
AFAIK, USB booting is simply not possible in any workstation hypervisor
the target machine is a Panasonic toughbook, which I know can boot off thumb drives because we've done it before
You say you want to put Ubuntu on it. Do you want a full live environment or just an installer?
@voretaq7 Wait, it's a VirtualBox guest? Why not just boot off the ISO image, then?!
@Zoredache I just want the damn thumb drive to boot -- once that works I can go from there LOL
@MichaelHampton because I need to distribute this to 150+ field units -- which are physical machines
Ah, well the quick way would be to download archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/precise/main/installer-amd64/… uncompress that, and then simply dd boot.img to /dev/thumbdrive.
8:07 PM
otherwise I have to send a tech out to each one of them
@Zoredache hmm... that's something I HAVEN'T tried yet... so when this fails to boot again I shall try it!
@voretaq7 Hm.
Oh wait no, I have it backwards
replace with i386 instead of amd64 if you don't want a 64 bit install.
The new panel has a worse contrast ratio
drumroll please for USB-Creator-GTK + Manual partition table fiddling
[sad womp-womp-womp sound goes here]
@Zoredache heh at this point all I want is a working boot block :-/
8:16 PM
Is there any point in partitioning a large storage area (say 30 TB) on a file server? I'm leaning to just creating a single volume and working with quotas if that's possible.
@voretaq7 At this point, I'd be happy with a beer.
I'm wondering if that would work with the weird limitations that Windows Backup imposes :\
@OliverSalzburg Makes your FS's consistency check a bit long in the tooth.
Namely not being able to write to storage areas larger than 2TB or something like that.
@WesleyDavid Good point.
Does that also mean creating such a large array might not have been the best choice in the first place?
@Adrian me too
8:19 PM
Q: KVM Hosting: How to efficiently replicate guests

javanoI have three KVM servers each with 1 guest VM, running directly on it's local storage, (so they are essentially getting a dedicated box worth of computing power each). In the event of a host failure I would like the guests replicated to at least one of the other hosts so I can spin it up there, u...

People talk about host failures often in questions... What are they talking about?
The server catching fire?
@OliverSalzburg do you have a single folder/share/dataset that could only fit on 30TB? If not, you might want to break things up.
A motherboard failure?
Dual power-supply failures?
@ewwhite The VM host machine crashes. It's Linux, it sometimes blows up.
Granted, Ubuntu does that a LOT more often than RHEL/CentOS
I flew without a safety net for years... At a certain class of hardware, it makes sense to assess the problem before going through a heavy DR/recovery scenario.
@Zoredache Also a good point. Thanks
8:23 PM
@ewwhite Being the only significantly technical person here, I want to produce failover so that the boss and padawans can just run a script to bring services back up on other hosts. And then figure out what broke when I get to the office.
In a metro area, a motherboard on server-class hardware isn't unreasonable to obtain. Servers can lose a power supply, recover from an OS crash, disk failure, fan failure..
@ewwhite all of the above.
I suspect he would be happy with something like Ganeti. code.google.com/p/ganeti
@Zoredache Oh, that poster's question is just solved by a virt cluster solution.
But there was the odd iSCSI ZFS sharenothing issue... and a few days ago, a guy who had mail server spread around his city for resiliency.
and I dunno, I've installed thousands of servers and seen some odd situations... but they rarely "just fail"
@ewwhite I suspect much of it is sheer imagination. Of non-technical people.
Yeah, there was the lightning strike, the rat and the power cable, the fire, and the Grand Rapids, MI Child Porn Ring (@ChrisS)...
(Sheriffs shut down and confiscated the shared hosting server that contained pr0n and my client's system)
8:28 PM
@ewwhite Occupational hazard of shared hosting.
@ewwhite Have you SEEN the rats we get here? OMFG.
@Adrian eww...
@MichaelHampton So it's overhyped, right?
@ewwhite I used to think those fsckers were mythical until I saw a 30" long rat down at the docks.
@ewwhite I'm up for the Anaheim gig, do you want to contact me directly?
@JoelESalas Do you think you need to see it first to assess, or are you okay going in cold?
8:32 PM
@ewwhite I'm okay just walking in, I'll stick with it either way.
I've found nobody likes Anaheim because of the distance. Can you handle that?
Stupid Dpkg. Installs the dependency package just fine. Won't install the dependent package claiming that the dependency isn't present. Try to do it via Aptitude, it suggest removing 62 packages to "resolve the conflict". WTF?
@ewwhite The distance is pretty crap, but I'm already sacrificing a day or two, right?
A: sync two huge filesystems

chriscowleyHow about GlusterFS? I have found that the traffic it develops is considerable less than DRBD. I have a howto for Centos on my website that (http://www.chriscowley.me.uk/2012/02/home-made-redundant-thin-provisioned-san/).

Seriously? A different file system? Have these people ever worked with actual skittish managers that would flip a shit if you suggested this
I think I got the USB subsystem in vbox working
@ewwhite Hardware fails, sure, but it's not like any given piece of kit is expected to last only a week or two.
8:48 PM
victory maybe
@Adrian Linux package management is sort of like a nuclear reactor. It works so well, so much of the time, that one is almost able to forget that it may occasionally cause the end of the world as we know it.
@MilesErickson Linux package management's new format: .FUK (The Fukushima Format)
So apparently when you start talking about the part numbers that make up a TV they just offer a replacement ;-)
8:52 PM
@JoelESalas Ah, figured it out. I'm kinda screwed since it appears they don't have a amd64 package for Acrobat Reader yet in Ubuntu 12.04.
If you try to install the i386 it either fails in dpkg or installed ALL THE 32-bit THINGS using aptitude and the repository
@Adrian That's because Adobe never published an amd64 package.
@Adrian I'd just do the multiplatform stuff, won't kill ya
@MichaelHampton Yep. Which makes me a very sad clown. Was finally hoping to ditch the PAE kernels.
@Adrian You can just let it install the 32-bit libraries.
@JoelESalas Is that a new kind of dance? Do the Multi-Platform?
8:54 PM
@SmallClanger 'That... That's not an IP address. That's a malformed MAC address with extra rivets
@Adrian DO THE MULTI-PLAT! (facepalm motion with hip thrusting)
@Adrian In Windows, it's called WOW64... which means in Linux, it's LOL64. And the LOLz are on you.
@KyleBrandt Smart people.
@voretaq7 The '255 shades of grey' made me snort into my beer.
LED vs LCD, any difference besides thickness?
8:57 PM
@SmallClanger Yes but of course the gin is what makes you love IPv6
@KyleBrandt . . . I assume you mean LED LCD versus CCFL LCD?
or are they making LED panels now?
Stop being fancy
cuz actual LED pixels would be made of weapons-grade awesome.
@KyleBrandt isn't there a av.se yet ?
@voretaq7 They'll get my /27 when they pry my cold, dead web servers off of it.
CCFL is pretty much guaranteed to be an even backlight, but degrades faster over time than LED.
Most people can't tell the difference with LED backlight spreaders these days, and the LEDs use less power (less waste heat), so I'd go with those.
@SmallClanger /27 you say? LUXURY

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