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9:00 PM
@MDMarra MAD HATTERY. :-)
... Why no, no I don't Mr. Jackson.
 
I see @Alnitak's
 
@voretaq7 Did you copy your SF profile to all other SE profiles?
The hat needs to be on your SE network profile, not SF
 
@MDMarra yeah. Hang on, let me kick it again.
 
Fractured login systems = slow hat updates
 
BRB. Kicking chat in the balls.
nope that doesn't seem to have done it either.
well it'll fix itself eventually.
CHAT IS BROKEN!
(probably also by design, just like ***GOD DAMNIT MARKDOWN***)
 
9:03 PM
@voretaq7 First you say, "You're wrong, it works for me." Then you reboot everything, then you say it'll fix it self later. Must be a Windows admin.
2
 
@ScottPack I've made a career from that
Don't make jokes
 
Having trouble installing a printer? No problem. REIMAGE ALL THE MACHINES!
 
@KyleBrandt is here, nobody make any sudden movements.
 
@WesleyDavid What, he's like a T-Rex? His vision is based on movement?
 
@ScottPack Clever girl.
 
9:06 PM
Maybe @KyleBrandt can fix @voretaq7's hat inadequacy problem
 
Aww, now I want to play in the hat dance.
 
@84104 Go to meta and grab the source images
If you end up with a treeface like me, we'll battle to the death
 
@MDMarra Did, now struggling with lack of editing tools.
 
There can be but one treeface
@84104 I used paint
But then again, my face is a tree, so take that for what it's worth
 
@84104 apt-get install gimp =)
 
9:07 PM
I've been letting The Gimp do all the heavy lifting.
 
@AdrianK sudo or die!
 
@84104 uh yeah. we pretty much just SSh in as root since we don't have approval for rolling out config management yet.
 
^winner
 
@AdrianK What a ginormous pate you have.
 
@AdrianK You have elected the way of pain(ful auditing).
 
9:10 PM
For anyone in here earlier, I think my struggles with the PA Department of Transportation and their toll transponders are coming to an end. Though, I will continue to receive toll violation notices for as much as a month after this.
And I have to call each time I get one
And fax the same form over and over
 
@MDMarra RFID went bad?
 
but I just filled all my info in and left the date blank so I can just make more photocopies each day
@84104 ya
And PennDOT takes up to a month to send violations
and my transponder is from MA
So it's a royal clusterfuck
 
@84104 Not I. The boss. It's only my list of to-do's after I get about 12 other things done, including moving this place from NIS to LDAP.
 
@AdrianK O_O and I thought things were bad here.
 
Basically, I've had a dead transponder for a month and have thousands of dollars in fines (that will all be dismissed) that are percolating through their system
 
9:11 PM
 
@ScottPack DAMN RIGHT!
@Jacob REIMAGE THE PRINTER!
 
@Jacob I think that's a Scumbag Steve, more than a X all the Y. =)
 
@MDMarra Fax?! wtf is this, 1995?
 
@MarkHenderson It was that or snail mail
 
@WesleyDavid Standby
 
9:12 PM
@84104 We're just an under-resourced non-profit IT dept. Our non-salary annual budget is about $30k, but everything except our servers is 2nd-hand or paid from other department's budgets.
 
@MDMarra Snail mail? wtf is this, 1935?
 
Beat you.
 
While on the phone with the customer service person I was informed that my sheet came out blank on their end. I assured them that if a fax machine was any kind of important technology I would know which way to orient the paper. Since it is unimportant technology, they were going to have to wait another minute while I sent it again.
3
 
@AdrianK I feel your pain. I donate some time to a charity and I had to fight tooth and nail to spend $6,000 on a new server for them (second hand of course) even though their network was going down at least 3 times a week and they were missing a lot of emails
 
I got an 8-way pSeries blade system last week for just over 500 quid :)
 
9:14 PM
 
@Alnitak 8-way meaning 8 sockets, or 8 blades?
 
@Alnitak You got an 8-way for only 500 quid? Jeebus. That would be way more expensive over here.
 
or 8 cores
 
8 blades, 2 dual core Xeons on each
 
wow
 
9:15 PM
@AdrianK 30K budget I want that!
 
eBay special :)
 
@Jacob No you dont
:)
 
I feel the need to scream. A senior manager just filed a ticket asking us to rescind a staff termination request for someone they requested be removed by COB last Friday.
 
@Alnitak Our first blades was a Dell 1855 chassis from eBay. Ahhhh the fun of finding it had 6 15-amp power supplies and we had no 15-amp outlets. It cost us more in electrician fees that it did for the entire chassis
 
@MDMarra Compared to what I have, yes I really do.
 
9:16 PM
@AdrianK I tell em to talk to HR
 
@ScottPack Sadly, we deal with all account setup and termination stuff. Getting that set up for HR to deal with is project #6 on the list.
 
I had a load of BL25p Opteron blades but they all started failing (bad VRMs). Getting the second hand BL20p blades was a great way to get the system working again at negligible cost.
 
@AdrianK "I'm sorry, new account creations take a minimum of 5 business days. Next time be more careful who you fire."
 
@AdrianK Man I get that every day. We made accounts billing so efficient that admin staff submit invoices, and then accounts send the invoices out to the clients, and then two or thee days after the clinet has paid the invoice they inform accounts they've made a mistake - because their old billing process had at least a 2-week delay while invoices were processed by hand
 
@AdrianK Perhaps he meant confirm that it's a valid request?
 
9:17 PM
@AdrianK Right, so do I. However, HR is the only department we accept termination notices from.
 
@AdrianK What the fuck? You don't have approval to do something that adds better accountability?
 
@ScottPack I wish it were that simple. EVERYTHING goes through out in-house agency management web-app, which means a copy goes to HR and a copy goes to us and is processed in parallel.
 
Hat fixed BTW (had to change chat parent user to something else and then back to SF)
(even though it showed up on every other site)
 
@JeffFerland Correct. It only benefits the IT team not the whole agency, so it gets prioritized lower.
 
@AdrianK Oh, wow. That's a fucktacular business process that needs changing if I've ever heard of one.
 
9:19 PM
((and in my SE profile))
 
@voretaq7 I'm pretty sure I made you a hat pic the other day, no effort required on your behalf except to log into gravatar.com, forget your password, do a password reset, and THEn change it
 
nice hat
 
@MarkHenderson That would require me to FIND said hat pic in the chat logs :P
 
@ScottPack Uh, yeah. Agency has grown 3x since that was put in place and it's become entrenched. But, I might be able to get it fixed if I can get terminations, new staff setups, and password changes completely automated.
 
@MDMarra And why has your christmas tree not a hat? :)
 
9:20 PM
yesterday, by Mark Henderson
user image
 
@AdrianK So you building your own IdM?
 
@voretaq7 I have a christmas tree for a face
 
@voretaq7 Good point, there's enough balls in that pic
 
I was born this way
Thanks for being a dick about it
 
@MDMarra oh you're welcome :-D
 
9:21 PM
@MDMarra Stop trying to show us your dick in your pic then
 
Seriously, @MDMarra. I'm tired of looking at your junk.
 
@MarkHenderson he can put a hat over that too. Like a chippendales dancer.
 
Now I'm never changing it
 
@MarkHenderson At least he put the tree on his head instead of on the chair.
 
@MDMarra WE DEMAND HATPORN!.... er.... wait... nevermind forget it.
 
9:22 PM
@voretaq7 bahaha my wife went to one of those shows, she said watching oily short italian men grind on her was gross... so how do you know about the chippendales?
 
@ScottPack Yeah. We kind of have to since most of our users do EVERYTHING through our web-app.
 
@voretaq7 Rule 34...
 
@MarkHenderson Everyone's seen the Full Monty, right?
 
@MarkHenderson they're the epitome of lousy strippers.
 
@TomOConnor Vaguely... Jamie Durie was a stripper, I think he was a chippendale or something
 
9:23 PM
Funny. An old friend of mine is an ex-Chippendale.
 
Now he's on Oprah and has gardening and variety shows
 
@MarkHenderson Don't dis Oprah.
 
@voretaq7 Orpah?
 
Seriously. Just don't do it. Her fans are MEAN, and they have spies everywhere.
 
Ugh. Going into a meeting. Calling in artillery, fire for effect.
 
9:24 PM
@voretaq7 I'm not, the point was that Jamie Durie was a stripper, not that he was on Oprah
 
@MarkHenderson Oprah was probably a bigger point in his career -- I mean it's OPRAH -- If Howard Stern is the king of all media then she's the queen.
 
^^ If anyone is interested in SOPA, would appreciate any grammar errors or typos :-)
 
@KyleBrandt wh.gov/DfY <- Go sign the petition so we can be ignored like everyone else.
 
@KyleBrandt I'm not sure I have the stomach for anything more on SOPA, but I can't look away because it's that important (and that wrong).
 
9:25 PM
You know what would be really cool? If we could get 25,000 signatures within 2 days.
 
I'm gonna boil it down further.
SOPA. Don't be a cunt.
5
 
@KyleBrandt How is your own blog not in the room feed
 
@MDMarra He normally only blogs about anime porn. Not our typical reading material.
 
Adding it yourself seems like way less of an abuse of power than that time you banned @pauska from chat for a whole day just to see if it would work.
 
:-)
 
9:27 PM
@MDMarra: Its my 4th post in two years, going to write there a little more I think to get it up to speed
 
got ya
I think that every time you post a new article, you should ban pauska from chat to celebrate
 
@MDMarra Poor viking.
 
That wasn't my fault, all his animated GIFs disoriented me -- like a fun house or something
2
 
haha
on that note, im going home
 
Where's @KyleBrandt's hat????
 
9:33 PM
I made a hat image, but I gravatar/SE is smarter than me.
 
@84104 Change your chat-site parent user and then change it back? 'tis what worked for my hat.
 
@voretaq7 I'm not sure how to do that.
 
@voretaq7 I just changed my gravatar and waited 5-10 minutes.
 
@ScottPack I'm not patient.
and apparently changing the user causes the SE cache of your gravatar to refresh.
 
Everything but chat seems happy.
 
9:48 PM
@TomOConnor I think the one thing that SOPA has going for it is its name. "If you're against the "Stop Online Piracy Act", you support online piracy!" and of course, everyone who has ever downloaded anything dodgey from the internet deserves to rot in prison for eternity
 
@MarkHenderson I think the only thing Congress has going for it is their ability to name acts something diametrically opposed to their actual effect, and still get paid.
 
@voretaq7 So they're in Marketing
 
@ScottPack no.
Marketing serves a purpose.
Congress just wastes my money.
 
10:06 PM
@voretaq7 I should become a politician. I have no idea how much they earn in the US but even a low-level back-bencher shadow minister in Australia gets a minimum paycheque of $253,000/year
And I don't think they really have to do much work
And they get a car + driver
The downside is you have to live in a place called Canberra, which is a big minus
 
would someone please up tick (my) comment #5 on this answer serverfault.com/a/342287/216 so it gets included in the default list of comments? The other two upvoted comments don't make so much sense without it.
ta muchly
 
@Alnitak On that question, the crazy thing about Windows DNS is that it DOES allow records with underscores, but an underscore is not part of the DNS spec and it breaks virtually every browser
 
that's the point of my answer - the DNS spec does allow an underscore, except when the domain name is also a host name
 
@MarkHenderson 175k/yr for rank and file congresscritters IIRC
 
@Alnitak Yes, you can use them in zone names that's true
 
10:10 PM
WDYM "zone name"?
A "zone" is a complete domain including an SOA record, per master file format.
 
Why this question get no live?
8
Q: Replacing Hard Drives

GarfonzoI was wondering if it is a good idea to replace a hard drive in a (fairly) system-critical database server after a certain number of years of use, before it dies. For example, I was thinking of replacing a hard drive after 3 years of use. Since I have many hard drives across servers, I could stag...

Is good question. Deserves love. And kittens.
 
that's one of the things I was trying to get TomTom to fix - he talks about "DNS names" and "Zone names" but those aren't the correct terms of art.
 
@voretaq7 Its got more love than most
+8 and answer with +18
 
@MarkHenderson it has 4 close votes :(
poor question.
 
Ohhh, that sort of love
 
10:11 PM
nothing but hate it gets!
 
Why would they close that? It's a good question
 
I know!
 
I think its the last line that ruins it
Personally I think Miles' answer is better than the highest voted one
 
@MarkHenderson I think they're about equal - There are some cases (rare ones) where you may have server drives that aren't in RAID and the rebuild issue is less important.
 
@voretaq7 I've just been emailed about SMART errors in one of our servers yesterday and replaced it quick smart, but I'm shcoked again at the rebuild time, even for RAID1
 
10:14 PM
I think infant mortality is the real issue myself - I've had machines where literally every disk failed within the first year of operation, but once they spin for a year they tend to be fine for 5-to-N years after that...
@MarkHenderson yeah, disks are too big these days
 
So for me, the issue of rebuild time is wayy more important, especially if you have a hot spare, then there's nothing to be gained by replacing the disks before they fail
 
I had to rebuild a 1TB array, it was HOURS.
The hotspare thing is a mixed blessing these days
 
not just HDDs - those blade servers I mentioned earlier - they were to replace a batch of 5 year old (out of maintenance) blades that all failed with the same voltage regulator fault after a power cycling. Stressing old components just isn't good for them.
 
your rebuild starts automatically (great) but you still run the risk of tripping a drive offline with soft errors (well now I'm FUCKED...)
@MarkHenderson definitely similar - that does sound like a bad batch from the factory though
 
10:16 PM
@voretaq7 is the risk any less than if you didn't have a hot spare?
 
@MarkHenderson mmmmmaybe -- depends on if you can get a good backup before starting the rebuild. If you have a good backup system the risk is mitigated anyway though.
 
@voretaq7 True. Biggest frustration I have with arrays lately is that I've been forced to buy disks from other manufacturers (I'll get whatever I can with the shortage), but it just happens to be 2-3kb smaller than the other drives in the array, which makes them worse than useless
 
At $job[-1] the FreeBSD servers weren't in the normal backup rotation (ARCSERVE SUCKS!), so if we had to do a RAID rebuild we would run a manual tar of the important shit first. Saved us from at least 2 rebuild-induced calamaties.
 
$253k, hmm..
 
@MarkHenderson ugh I hate that
 
10:18 PM
@voretaq7 All future arrays (as of about two-three months ago) are now only generated to 95% of the disk capacity, to leave space for dispairty in different disk brands
 
I don't even have that luxury - with the exception of our DB servers all our stuff uses FreeBSD's geom_mirror provider
so the policy is if we can't get the same manufacturer's disk we buy a size up.
I tell ya though I've had GREAT luck with the new (3.5") SAS and SATA server drives - no failures in 3 years.
knocks on every wooden object in his office. twice.
I won't deploy 2.5" drives yet -- I keep hearing stories of high infant mortality and I don't think they're quite ready.
 
@voretaq7 Hah wood, that'd be nice. I have melamine (pastic coated MDF, and MDF isn't really wood, its sawdust and glue) and plastics
@voretaq7 We've got maybe 50 2.5" drives in production now, some in blades, some in normal rack chassis, some SAS, some SATA, no major issues to report
After all, laptops have had 2.5" drives for decades
 
@Alnitak I've upvoted everything of yours on there that I can.
 
@voretaq7 My god, I've just surveyed the office, we don't have ANYTHING real wood. Melamine desks, plaster walls, glass conference table, stainless steel chairs, plastic everything else. Nobody even has any wooden trinkets on their desks. There's pewter buddahs and some indian god, fake christmas trees and tinsel... but no wood. Anywhere.
Ahah I found a photo frame that's made of wood (well, painted pine to look like oak) but I guess that counts
 
I want to make an array out of 1.8" PATA/ZIF iPod hard drives.
 
10:27 PM
@MarkHenderson seems legit.
Keep it in knocking distance.
 
@WesleyDavid I want to make Chopper3's RAID ONE MILLLLIIIOONNN from here: serverfault.com/a/339438/7709
@voretaq7 It has a picture of my wife and son in it. People might think I'm punching them in the photo
 
@MarkHenderson My laptop HDs have an incredibly high rate of attrition.
(putting them on top of my amp when I record might have something to do with that. Also carrying them around when they're spinning....)
 
@voretaq7 Well, you're nto going to be throwing your servers into a backpack and on the train every day for 3 years, are you?
 
@voretaq7 The HDD in my Acer is on it's way out.
 
@MarkHenderson mmmmmmmaybe....
With a battery to keep 'em running
1
Q: Best practice for automated Linux updates

Beaming Mel-BinWe are working on a way to perform automatic updates for our RHEL/RHEL-based servers. Initial idea: Using Puppet, we disable the default repositories and point to our own. Then, we use ensure => latest for the packages we want to automatically update. Problem: We are seeing that some service...

 
10:29 PM
It'll be too expensive to replace soon.
 
@voretaq7 Oh oh oh I've got this one!!!!
 
Anyone have linux/puppet specific advice for him? All I could do is generic ones.
 
INSTALL WINDOWS AND USE WSUS!
 
@MarkHenderson +1 ACCEPT!
 
@TomOConnor thx :)
 
10:29 PM
Because isn't "use Linux" the answer for every Windows question?
 
@MarkHenderson no.
Use OS/2 is the answer for every windows question.
 
Use QNX is the answer for all remaining questions.
 
@voretaq7 According to some people it is :P I make a habit of downvoting and shaming the people who tell users to switch to Linux for no reason than they're using Windows
And I see it a fair bit
 
My 7 year old daughter has a netbook running Fedora. No windows updates required :)
 
Is my blog in the rss feed here?
 
10:32 PM
@MarkHenderson that's stupid - you shouldn't change operating systems without good reason.
 
@TomOConnor yes
 
@Iain Good stuff.
 
@Iain Ah cool. Didn't know bout that page.
 
@voretaq7 This was the latest one: serverfault.com/questions/341416/…
 
10:37 PM
@MarkHenderson Whiskey Tango Foxtrot to that
seriously - his answer is OK except for the preaching.
Is he also a vegan? Is he going to say I can't have my chicken burrito with sour cream and cheese (a/o/s)?
 
There should be something badgey about having a massively upvoted answer on a massively downvoted question serverfault.com/questions/342317/…
 
@TomOConnor There is
You need 10 more votes to go
Only ONE person has it, so you might be #2!!
 
I need to make a data.SE SQL query that finds all accepted answers with no upvotes.
 
This just... it just.. it boggles the mind
Let's see if we can get it to the top of the multicollider
 
10:41 PM
@MarkHenderson Jesus Henrietta Christ. Downvoted and yelled at - that guy needs to be BEATEN with the manual.
 
@voretaq7 It made me giggle. I read, and re-read his question about 3 times to make sure I wasn't being thick.
 
@TomOConnor no, as far as I can tell he's trying to write pl/pgsql to do SELECT * FROM foo;
 
@voretaq7 boggle
 
@voretaq7 And to make it even better, he's actualluy using very complicated SQL to do it!
So he can write a huge procedure, but can't do a select *
 
@MarkHenderson he's not using SQL at all, he's writing a proprietary-language stored procedure!
there may be SQL inside it, but 90% of that doesn't appear anywhere in the SQL standards
 
10:45 PM
@voretaq7 I didn't think SQL was a standard
Which is why we now have LINQ and different gateways to abstract data collection from writing queries
 
@MarkHenderson SQL92 & SQL99 are the most common dialects
I think we have SQL2008 now
 
But select * from foo works on prettymuch every SQL-compatible db system.
 
@voretaq7 I wonder how many RDBMS's actually obey them... I know that SQL Server 2008 R2 and 2012 can do some funky shit
 
it's an ANSI thing
Postgres strives to be very standard-conformant
They're mostly SQL92/SQL99 conformant, and have many aspects of 2008 (like TRUNCATE TABLE)
 
is it mssql server that uses TOP 10 not LIMIT 10?
 
10:47 PM
MSSQL supports top and limit I think
but LIMIT is the correct way to do it (LIMIT and IIRC OFFSET)
 
What is the rep cap?
 
@TomOConnor 200/day by upvotes
so you need 9 more.
 
@voretaq7 Potentially, then.
 
Accepted Answer bonus (+15) is immune to the rep cap. However, if it happens before you hit the cap, it does count towards the cap
 
I haven't hit repcap in ages.
 
10:52 PM
it will also give you Reversal
@KyleBrandt so are bounties, right?
 
@voretaq7: Right
 
@KyleBrandt Every time I hear about these little things, I get the feeling that SF is like a massive game. kinda
 
@TomOConnor it is.
 
@TomOConnor it's not kinda like a game it is
 
^^ "Life is the world’s biggest MMORPG."
 
10:53 PM
also I noticed about the accepts counting against you before 200 -- I think that keeps you from getting Mortarboard any time you get an accept
 
@TomOConnor they keep tweaking the rules and adding new levels all the time
 
@Iain BADGESbadgesBADGESbadgesBadgesBADGESbadgesBadgesBADGESbadges....
 
There's still quite a lot of unclaimed badges.
 
@voretaq7 yep new levels
 
@TomOConnor Unclaimed Badgers?
 
10:55 PM
@KyleBrandt You are seriously underdressed, sir
 
@Holocryptic he's not allowed to be festive. Court order.
 
Lies. Peter's joined in the festivities. Your argument is invalid
 
@TomOConnor I bumped your SELECT * post on Twitter. Expect some upboats. Kittehs gotta look out for eachother.
2
 
ok why does this search not work as expected votes:0 isaccepted:1
 
@Iain I know, I beat my head against that a few weeks ago. =/
 
10:57 PM
My hat as arrived. I feel special by being like everyone else.
 
@Iain Oh no, nevermind. I was in data.SE trying to get it to work, but sadly seemed to be missing the mark.
 
@WesleyDavid I was only looking cos you mentioned it above
 
@84104 Well played
@84104 Now you can upload your image to my meta post
 
@Holocryptic i said court order, not company policy :)
 
Everyone point and laugh at @Zypher until he caves to pressure.
 
10:58 PM
@WesleyDavid i see why it's because votes is a minimum
 
You dont want to know what happened the last time @KyleBrandt wore a santa hat. :P
 
@WesleyDavid who's in the what now?
 
@Zypher Hat. NAO
 
@voretaq7 Did we all get OS/2?
 
@Zypher Well, for one, you're not in a Santa hat. You are a loser. QED.
 
10:59 PM
@Zypher He wants you to wear a ridiculous hat in your gravatar.
 
yawn
 
@84104 CP/M
@Zypher COFFEE!
 
@Zypher BLACK MOLLIES!!
 
i've had all the fun i can have for one day with the meta.so freakout
 

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