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5:00 PM
@Jacob Ignore me
 
sandy crack, more like it.
 
@TomOConnor $900 - $2000 for decent low-end stuff.
...and up from there as you add features (real hardware RAID, etc.)
 
@SmallClanger had a lot of pre-release xeons/G8 kit but not great experiences yet
 
@voretaq7 Eh. wasn't that far out then.. I generally figure that with servers you can change the currency symbol between $ and £ and not get any price difference
 
5:04 PM
@voretaq7 The fever is on, for moar cowbell
 
@TomOConnor pretty much. Our front-end servers here are about $1100-1300 depending on how much disk/RAM I put in them (SATA, software RAID, 1 PSU)
 
@TomOConnor - Blimey. That's a pretty big hit.
 
@SmallClanger Apple are the famous ones.. a Mac Mini is £699 ,or $699
or was.
and now they price fix
 
@TomOConnor As an Apple stockholder I would like to thank my friends across the pond for contributing mightily to the company's margins :)
 
@voretaq7 Heh. Better than being an Intel shareholder today.. Although i wish i'd bought some shares in AMD.
Woo. 80 points
 
5:08 PM
@TomOConnor Intel never seemed to be a value investment for me. Back when Apple was under 100/share it was totally worth scooping up.
 
@voretaq7 me too, since 98
 
I see you all had a nice conversation about me after I left... :)
 
bored(
 
@Jacob yeah, do you accept grooming as a teaching method? :)
 
@lynxman hahaha
 
5:15 PM
@lynxman I don't understand what you mean by grooming, someone forcing me to do as they wish?
 
@Jacob not really, we were just talking if grooming was a word someone would use in the US for teaching someone
 
in the UK the term means a paedophile talking to a minor online in attempting to abuse them - just a UK/US term difference
 
@Chopper3 Like pants/trousers :D always hilarious
 
@Chopper3 if thats the Uk term... I live in the States... Rather what definition applies here?
 
@Jacob don't worry about it - just a bunch of older geeks talking to a minor - easy jokes basically
 
5:19 PM
Actually I think "grooming" can be used in that sense in the US as well.
 
@Jacob basic training - ingraining a proper loathing of the users, showing you where the non-lethal LARTS are kept, that sort of thing :-)
 
I feel so old, and yet i'm only 9 years older than @Jacob
 
Where people will get friendly with a youngster to slowly indoctrinate them into abuse...you're grooming them to get close to them and gain their trust. It's not just a UK term.
 
@TomOConnor You youngling!
 
For geek training as a mentor, they're Padawans.
 
5:20 PM
Me shouts @TomOConnor to get off his lawn while shaking his fist in the air
 
@BartSilverstrim I call 'em "cable pullers"
 
@BartSilverstrim - Does that mean enforced rat's tail haircuts? shudder
 
I was assuming you liked the ones you're mentoring.
 
(What? we all had to do it! it's like medical residency! :-)
I usually do. I just dislike pulling cable more.
 
@BartSilverstrim look at what happens to all the padawans in the end though Bart ;)
 
5:21 PM
I'm benificent -- I usually take them out to lunch after they take a shower :)
bene* yeah I can spell today...
 
@lynxman Tsk.
 
that china guy's starting to piss me off - anyone else?
 
and speaking of abuse: Time to go badger my QA department.
 
Linux stole my ram!
 
Just close the question as [MENTALLY UNSTABLE WITH POSSIBLE FUTURE TERRORIST PROFILE]
 
5:23 PM
@Chopper3 I think the Ideas quite stupid...
 
I think he'll get the message
 
@voretaq7 do you get badgers in the US
 
@Chopper3 I'm surprised you didn't expound the virtues of a DL980 ;)
 
@KyleBrandt It's clearly Linux ate my RAM... :P
 
@Chopper3 if i VTC, do i lose my shiny shiny rep gained?
 
5:24 PM
(And I mean, this time it really did eat my ram, free -m only show 8Gs but there are 16 gigs in the machine according to dmidecode)
 
@Jacob Linux murdered my wife.
 
@KyleBrandt what's happened (secretly hopes this is a 32-bit/AWE/PAE question so I can scoff at Kyle)
 
@Chopper3 they're not common by me, but they're around in north america
 
@TomOConnor They are so sweet - and no
 
@TomOConnor Were you running ReiserFS on your Linux by any chance?
 
5:25 PM
@TomOConnor Windows would have raped her first....
 
@voretaq7 we have loads around here, nasty bastards when provoked
 
@TomOConnor I didn't know you were a filesystem developer!
 
@lynxman Reiser was the first FS i played with, back on Slack 6
 
@Chopper3 We have opossums and mangy raccoons
 
@Chopper3: Well I am curious if it happened at a reboot or while it was live. It happened quite a while ago and RRD shows the drop before the reboot. But I wonder if just looks like that due to RRD consolidation
 
5:25 PM
@TomOConnor I always think of it as "ReaperFS" in my mind
 
I've never been a filesystem developer.. and never been heterosexual, either. There's a moral in there somewhere..
 
Running a dell report now to make sure memory mirroring didn't get turned on
 
@KyleBrandt ask a question!
 
@TomOConnor I'm pretty sure that's related somehow
 
@TomOConnor hahaha
 
5:27 PM
@TomOConnor That's true: McKusick hasn't killed Allman. And Allman gave us sendmail!
 
@voretaq7 I met Allman once, he smells nice
 
@lynxman Like, properly smells nice, or compared to Stallman?
 
@packs Compared to stallman even London in August smells nice, but he properly smells nice
 
@lynxman GNU/London?
 
rofl
 
5:32 PM
@lynxman Venice in August is far, far worse :)
 
@Chopper3 In a measure of how many Stallmans would you describe the smell in Venice in August?
 
If any one remembers from before, what do you think I should include to the email to ARIN to see if they'll assign me a v6 block?
 
@Jacob what do you want? a /32? if so just ask, they'll give you one - they'll give you 100 if you want - they've got 4B
 
@Chopper3 I'd also need an AS
 
for a /32 you don't even need justification
 
5:36 PM
0
Q: Can we come up with a consensus opinion on Purchasing Suggestions?

Tom O'ConnorIn reference to 2U rack hardware, budget but stable, what to buy? Plus many other similar questions, it has been noted that there's actually nothing in the SF FAQ about asking really localized questions like "What hardware should I buy", or "Which server software should i buy, and which vendor d...

 
you can always try to find someone who has an AS already to do the paperwork for you and "groom" your IP range ;)
 
first post on Meta !
 
@lynxman anyone want to lend me their AS?
 
@TomOConnor: Ya, they should be closed in general -- that just isn't in the faq I guess
 
great Q tom
 
5:37 PM
@Jacob ARIN will happily give you all the v6 space you want -- it's even free if you have (ARIN-allocated) v4 space already (otherwise you have to pony up some cash). Getting transit from providers will be a bigger challenge though :)
 
@Jacob I'm not in ARIN and the AS isn't even mine :)
 
@KyleBrandt Fine, then perhaps the meta will produce it being put in the FAQ :P
 
@voretaq7 Verizon will BGP if I have my own space
 
@Jacob what router do you have?
 
@Chopper3 none at this second, PFsense or Vyatta. I haven't decided which
 
5:40 PM
@Jacob Really? How much do they want for that? :)
Also re: an ASN, ARIN should be able to assign you one -- let them know you're setting up an AS and they'll help you through the process. They're generally good people (unless you're asking for IPv4 space - then I suggest wearing full-contact gear)
 
@voretaq7 The T2 guy told me nothing if I had my own space whether thats true...
 
This one looks interesting although a bit mental
0
Q: What's new in Puppet since 2007?

BCSI've got a copy of the Pulling Strings with Puppet book (written in 2007) but given that it has a bunch of equivocal language, I'm wonder how much has changed since then? I've found this Release Notes page but it doesn't have dates so I don't know where to start (and make for rather dry reading)....

 
@voretaq7 You have to remember the budget; I hope they'll do it; possibly so they can say like " this 15yr did it... so can you or along the lines of that
 
@lynxman At first blush I imagine the answer would be either a "No, it should just work" or a book in and of itself.
 
@packs that's the thing, this one is so open ended you can pretty much just say anything
 
5:47 PM
now to find the ARIN contact Email, I don't think they'd want me to call...
 
@Jacob arin.net/fees/fee_schedule.html don't forget these guys in the budgeting
 
@lynxman About 6 months ago I used the book to help me get a better understanding of the basics, and it worked pretty well. You're right, feels way too broad.
 
@voretaq7 eh lets see
 
@Jacob don't think pfsense supports ipv6 btw
 
@Chopper3 2.0 does but not well, I might switch to vaytta more like cisco.
@voretaq7 I doubt chopper3 paid for his v4 block...
 
5:50 PM
@Jacob Or you could just drop your own Free/OpenBSD box in there
 
@Chopper3 when did you "return" the IP space?
 
@Jacob I didn't, I just transferred it to my employer at the time
which would have been late 98 I guess
 
@voretaq7 Email out... :)
 
Home time! :D
 
Any equallogic gurus in the house today?
 
5:57 PM
Hmmm
 
@SpacemanSpiff, in interactive chat, it is frequently better to just ask your question instead of polling for the availability of experts.
 
@Zoredache: So this is a UDP chat, not TCP?
 
@SmallClanger, huh?
 
Sorry, cheesy gag: Better to simply send your packet out rather than trying to establish a session.
 
@SmallClanger UDP with its own application-layer reliability (the stars & transcripts) :)
 
6:01 PM
@Zoredache don't want to waste anyone's time, this might be a mouthful :)
In any case, has anyone ever worked with iSCSI traversing NAT?
 
@SpacemanSpiff ::shrieks and recoils in horror::
 
@SpacemanSpiff: What the hell are you doing son?
 
No, but that smells of wrongness.
 
;-)
 
haha
 
6:03 PM
iSCSI over NAT, sounds like you need to take good hard look at where you are in life and how you got there.
 
Well... trying to host an array to be a replication target for multiple customers
customers might have conflicting addresses
the array replication is done via iscsi
 
@SpacemanSpiff I'd set up a VPN and assign your customers non-conflicting IPs
 
Well. I do have a VPN to each customer, it's THEIR array's iSCSI network that might conflict
 
and that use-case is the best reason for ever buying NetApp boxes - hate them but they do multi-tenancy
 
@SpacemanSpiff mmh - that can be problematic... you can't ensure unique tunnel networks huh?
 
6:08 PM
i can definitely ensure unique tunnels, thats not an issue
the issue is the other side of the tunnel
 
Alright now we wait to see what ARIN says
 
if every customer happened to pick 192.168.2.0/24 for their iSCSI networks, then I have a problem for any return traffic
hell i'm pretty sure sending traffic will be an issue :)
i mean.. i suppose if there is a conflict i can tell them to subnet that network some
that leaves with a finite number of conflicts because they might need a ton of addresses in that network already
 
Senior Linux Administrator looking for remote work ... Help, I'm tired to work in tech support(
 
I was thinking you'd give your array a foot in each tunnel network and they'd do the same -- if those are unique (and assuming your array & theirs can handle >1 networks) you'd be OK.
 
@alvosu did you send me your resume?
 
6:13 PM
@AntoniusBloch Hey shall I get on Skype?
 
@voretaq7 that makes sense to me, but I think the equallogic gorup IP redirection will complicate it...
 
@SpacemanSpiff quite possible - not an equallogic guru, I've only ever dealt with ghetto iSCSI SANs :)
 
yes this is the source of my sad face pastebin.com/2XNjSUzM
 
@AntoniusBloch no, i send resume right now
 
More on that Intel chipset bug, if anyone's interested: anandtech.com/show/4142/…
 
6:16 PM
@alvosu talk to me on skype: sherman.boyd
@jacob you too
 
6:29 PM
In interactive chat, no one can hear you scream. But they might see you bash your head on the home row.
4
 
@BartSilverstrim Deserves a star ....
 
Plug: don't forget to check out careers.stackoverflow.com when looking for work -- includes SA jobs
 
Alright I just sent the email requesting v6 space and an AS... Please let there be someone at ARIN who will do it...
I just got the auto mail, anyone deal with ARIN?
BRB for anyone whose still in here
 
@SmallClanger that's a desktop chipset, therefore I personally have no concern at all - edit of course I do get paid by intel to do PR for them so I would say that :)
 
True, the matching Xeon chipsets haven't shipped yet, have they. Though no doubt they'll be delayed by this.
It'll also delay the new macbooks by a month or more (waits for screams).
 
6:45 PM
@SmallClanger my laptop upgrade is next year anyway :)
 
nope, not yet - not ready yet - and they won't be delayed as they don't have any sata components, they'll be delayed because they go bloody pop within minutes of booting!
 
I'm back
 
that's nice
 
@Chopper3 It is really, what would you people do without me :)
0
Q: How to automatically announce Linux server resources to clients with arbitrary OSes?

jstarekI have a Linux server that needs to offer some services to an intranet. There will often be users that are not too familiar with using their laptops in a network environment, and so I'd like to announce the services they can use in an intuitive way. Ideally, when they connect their machines to th...

no replies eh?
 
@Jacob It's one of those "And I would like an icecream on top thank you"
 
6:51 PM
Loudspeaker/Big neon sign?
 
@lynxman I know that was the point :)
 
@SmallClanger At a university I would use undergrad students. Work damn near free and this doesn't really require any talents.
 
@lynxman Thats kinda what I asked ARIN; I'd like this and this oh yeah can I get it free please...
 
@packs also known as modern slaves
@Jacob let's see what comedic reply they get back to you ;)
 
@packs Why only undergrads? :)
 
6:53 PM
@Jacob Send out an email announcing what services are available and where. Follow up with a dead-tree memo. Anyone who can't follow that shouldn't be allowed to connect to the network.
@Jacob Grad students tend to be useful for other things.
 
@voretaq7 but I bet I am better than some(most) under grads...
 
@voretaq7 Like run around to get you pot for free?
 
@lynxman I'd never trust a student with such an important task!
 
@voretaq7 wasn't my question, but I'll use that as a reply :)
 
(besides, the stoners around here? I'd expect to get seeds & stems and all the good stuff be up in smoke!)
 
6:56 PM
I really want to suggest "I'm wondering if we need a "SEEK. PROFESSIONAL. HELP." close option. Good for both the crazies and the clueless" on meta
 
@Jacob Like @voretaq7 said. Grad students will actually work cheaper, but the work needs to be somehow related to their research.
 
@packs and usually you can delegate actual work to a grad student :)
 
@packs I am programming at minimum wage...
 
@voretaq7 Now let's not get crazy here!
 
e.g. "You're researching parallel computing algorithms? Cool. Build me a nice HPC cluster."
(that's how my alma mater got their first cluster environment actually... then I came along and they had to redo it all)
 
7:01 PM
Some of my favorite incidents to respond to have been systems that, when asked who administered it, "Oh, a grad student set it up 7 years ago and it's just kept running." That rather colors my opinion, unfortunately.
 
Parallel computing was my focus for my CompSci degree. Came in very handy when I started working with distributed databases.
@packs Slave-labor does have its downsides.
 
@sysadmin1138 My first advisor tried his damnedest to get me into real time computing. Overwhelming lack of interest on my part rather killed it.
 
@packs That's an area you really need an interest in to do well. It's hard. Not as hard these days as it was back in '95 when I was playing with it, but still.
I decided to go into the private sector instead of staying in academia to work towards a CSci Masters in Parallel-thingies because I was strictly a C-student in the maths. Parallel computing is very math heavy.
 
why does it say (for me anyway) 31.3k next to your IP 1138?
 
@sysadmin1138 I was dealing on the networks side, he wanted me to build out a kernel module for doing PSS. In concept it seems really cool, but I'm neither theoretical nor enjoy coding. That made it rather hard to get past the notion that it seems really cool in concept...and that's about it.
 
7:08 PM
@Chopper3 Because I'm semi-nifty on SU and that counts here.
 
ah - I see, but why just you?
 
I
Just
Make
Big
Posts.
@packs Kernel coding? Eeek.
 
ughh
My first task at TwoCell is to rewrite icky client code :(
 
@sysadmin1138 Yeah, pretty much. It's pretty nasty. I got my stub written, but didn't make it much further.
VERY different paradigm than the straight functional stuff I was used to.
 
@packs functional programming to kernel coding? Baptism by nuclear blast much?
 
7:14 PM
@voretaq7 Yeah... I wouldn't recommend it :)
 
"Writing Operating Systems" was one of the 3000-level classes I could have taken. I opted for parallel computing instead.
 
@sysadmin1138: You are still not ahead of me ... ;-)
 
@KyleBrandt shakes tiny fist I was last night! Curses!
 
@sysadmin1138 This was allegedly for a MS thesis, so while not defined as a class, it was equally high numbered.
 
Neato.
 
 
1 hour later…
8:23 PM
Hm. puppet-server 2.6 + puppet-dashboard == no timing statistics since the report parser hasn't been updated to read times yet. How rude.
 
Our network-guys just suggested putting our F5 BigIP (network load-balancer) in front of MS-SQL. I'm not sure how whack-ass that is. If it is.
 
I wonder if we're doing that here. Let me consult the maps.
 
8:37 PM
SysAdmin1138 Expounds
The growth of StackExchange
SysAdmin1138
http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Sysadmin1138/~3/kOiLUPpyBss/the-growth-of-stackexchange.shtml
 
8:49 PM
Load balancing a VIP with readonly databases makes plenty of sense.
For writes, you need something more intelligent like a middleware layer or proxy.
 
This would be a production database doing reads and writes. I'm not sure what they're thinking they'd gain by putting it behind a load-balancer. Maybe that just means the Load-balancer admin has to write ACLs not the Firewall admin.
 
@sysadmin1138 I'd rather my firewall admin be handling such things personally...
 
@voretaq7 Me to. I'm going to have to button-hole them and ask what their reasoning is.
0
Q: E-Mail Hosting for Small-Businesses

LerikunHello, we are a small business company with 5.000 employees. Every day we send and receive about 10.000 e-mails. We want to set up our own Linux-mail-server (Postfix+Cyrus). What is recommended hardware for such needs?

Whaa? I'd consider a 5K-employee business not a small one.
 
@sysadmin1138 yeah, I think they added a zero there... also at 5000 people shouldn't they have someone with enough IT skill to spec a server?
I smell fish.
 
9:06 PM
That post is mad.
As is the one below it suggesting outsourcing without asking any further questions
 
Are you sure it's 5,000 and not 5.000
perhaps they've got someone with only one leg, and they're really 4.85, but they rounded up
 
I'm sure that post makes no sense as written. Or is disguising a long and painful backstory that I'm frankly happier not knowing.
2
 
indeed
 
i do look at some posts and just think "I'll just put that over there with the rest of the disasters waiting to happen... and then just walk away"
2
 
@RobertMoir I'm doing that more and more frequently these days
 
9:12 PM
yeah
 
Like the "what does it take to host a website" or sommat from this morning
 
Especially questions like that one voretaq7, I think sometimes an answer of "If you have to ask how then you don't" is the best one
but i think that would be considered unhelpful
 
or "i wanna send my serverz coach"
 
yes
 
@RobertMoir i voted to close NRQ
 
9:14 PM
I decided I wasn't touching that one either
Fair enough, I want to see if it gets re-written to make sense first, myself.
 
@RobertMoir eh. yeah.. kinda. I doubt it'll get rewritten much better...
 
I reckon you're right, but I figure give 'em a chance
 
I did actually once took a second hand server in one of my bags from NYC to LON just because I had the baggage allowance :)
it was for free and second hand anyway :)
 
I once took a motherboard from the UK to canada. Got away with it but that was before 9/11 and even then I didn't really think it was a good idea
 
@RobertMoir yeah... I think i'm gonna give voting a rest for tonight.. Surreal day today.
Do we have the moderator election results yet?
 
9:17 PM
@RobertMoir a motherboard should be okay to carry
 
i didn't think the results were today
Have to wait for either tomorrow or wednesday to find how much i lost by
 
:(
i think you should wiiiiin
we need a british mod
 
thank you!
 
to even up the tz problems
and other stuff, like being fair and just!
 
I totally voted for myself but even so I don't think I was the 1st or 2nd best candidate
 
9:19 PM
rm -rf /tmp/*
 
its pretty much a "can't lose" election anyway, all good people in it
 
arse.
yeah..
 
rm -rf
ahhh the greats
 
ok, now that's strange
that was actually the wrong window. but +1 to whoever wrote that one in
 
rm -rf ~
 
9:20 PM
Why can't focus follow eyes... rather than mouse
 
its great
 
very clever
are there any other EEgs?
 
i don't know about any others
 
evening
 
Hi Iain
 
9:22 PM
mr luggage server is back, with further comments.. 12 comments on my answer.. surely that's some kinda record? serverfault.com/questions/229207/…
 
I'd like to see good ${time_of_day} or similar converted into a time zone appropriate greeting
5
 
@Iain - great idea. @Tom I sympathise with him, I think he's got a problem there and is just trying to solve it best he can
 
@Iain g'day!
 
@RobertMoir Yeah... It does amuse me though
@RobertMoir perhaps we just take it for granted, buying from vendors, etc
 
Yeah... like I say... just leave it over there with the rest of the disaster and just walk away
 
9:25 PM
@lynxman no Fosters for me
 
I nearly had a rack of hardware shipped to Malta for a project
 
And yeah I think we probably do
 
transport was about 18k, inc insurance (but i do know the MD of the carrier)
 
yikes
 
we canned the project, because the hardware capex and opex for transit was enormous (like 250k capex, and 10k/mo opex)
 
9:26 PM
@TomOConnor Shipping anything to malta is crazy expensive, I have a couple of racks down there
 
why so much is the question?
i wanted to go sooooo much
 
heh
 
1 month out there dooing config
 
If only we could rack servers in Bali, by the beach...
 
oh yeah
 
9:28 PM
The closest I got was Jakarta, and man that was an experience
 
imnotjealousimnotjealousimnotjealous
 
believe me, that one is not to be a single bit jealous about
 
@RobertMoir my partner used to work for a Marine ISP.. setting up VSAT dishes on millionaires' super yachts
 
and now we're ALL jealous
 
the datacenter was in the city center, as a foreigner you can't go out unescorted, otherwise you can be stabbed just to get money and gadgets out of you
even the hotels have metal detectors in Jakarta :(
@TomOConnor that one is all to be jealous about
 
9:32 PM
ok I'm not jealous of lynxman, I AM jealous of Tom's partner.
 
madness.. and to think I thought Telehouse was in a rough bit of town.
 
Telehouse IS in a rough part of town, just not THAT rough....
;-)
 
Telehouse is a bit dodgy, but not much, just with a keyboard you can defend yourself
 
uh huh
 
hehe
i got attacked in telehouse.. by a rack.
 
9:37 PM
@RobertMoir like this
 
the door fell on me
 
sounds rough
 
@TomOConnor I hope that door got what it was looking for
it totally deserved it
 
@lynxman The second time I went up, I took my cordless drill and pop-riveter..
 
ok that was weird
 
9:39 PM
@TomOConnor oh, that bastard door *shakes fist
 
@RobertMoir Deja Vu? Was it a black cat?
 
no that video is weird
been playing uplink lately
 
Actually there's a good pub nearby Telehouse, it's called The Gun, has views to the O2
 
OMGYES
the Gun is fantastic.
 
@TomOConnor we should make serverfault meetup there maybe :)
I would totally be up for it, love The Gun
 
9:43 PM
@lynxman That's a pretty good idea...
There's a few brits about.. @Chopper3 @RobertMoir @Iain ... i'm sure there's more..
 
Ben
ahem you forgot the most important one.....
 
oh hai @Ben
 
That's gonna leave a bruise
 
ouch, pentium bug all over again
 
I'll be in the Postal Order in Worcester on Friday which is aboout as close to London as I get most of the time
 
9:46 PM
at least they're owning up to it this time
I've always said that it isn't IF you make mistakes but how you deal with them when you do that matters
 
seriously, that's a great graph
I'll be needing that time machine about now..
@Iain I haven't been to the Postal Order in YEARS
is it still reasonable?
 
It's a Wetherspoons now - great beer at great prices
 
heh
oh well
 
it got Weatherspoonised, wow
 
ntbcw weatherspoonerised.. breat geer at preat grices
 
9:50 PM
I've only ever known it as a Wetherspoons
 
i could've sworn it used to be indie
 
It may have been - we went several years when we didn't get into Worcs as all relies lived in Malvern - now one's moved to Worcs again
 
ok i'm out of here. Cya later :)
 
cya RobertMoir
 
laters
 
Ben
9:52 PM
Later RobertMoir
 
cya!
 
the Swan with 2 nicks and the (now closed) Jolley Roger were our regular places to drink
 
10:45 PM
I'll just leave this here in case anyone is interested or didn't hear... h-online.com/security/news/item/…
 
Wow.
If ever there was a candidate for an 'awesome question' badge...
 
@KyleBrandt So Close...
 

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