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9:00 PM
vote early vote often
 
@Iain Welcome to Chicago, where the dead vote early, and often!
 
Dan
voted!
 
@voretaq7 I'm in Chicago :)
 
@SpacemanSpiff But are you a zombie? :-)
 
it's a pity we didn't get a primary
 
9:03 PM
@Iain We didn't need one, really.
 
I know but it would have been nice to see the voting patterns
 
I'm not really a fan of primaries TBH
 
we don't have them over here
 
There. Now it's all over but for the waiting.
3
 
I'm more of a "Give everyone a long list of people running for office and let them vote"
 
9:06 PM
@Iain done/voted
 
ditto
 
I have a fair idea where my votes are going, but I'm not casting them until after I read the chat transcript from tonight :-)
 
@voretaq7 I have a sneaky suspicious it's going to be a quick read...
 
It probably wont be a book
 
Ben
I knew who I was voting for about 3 days ago really
 
9:08 PM
@ChrisS so do I - unfortunately I can't attend
 
Ben
I don't really think the chat will swing somebodies(somebody's?) vote
 
@Ben same here
 
I knew days ago too @ben
 
My #1 and #2 were set pretty early. #3 has been swinging like a swinging thing.
 
but I'm steadfast in my resolve to read everything available before making a decision, especially since this is a lifetime appointment :)
 
9:09 PM
@Ben I had 3 people in mind when I saw that there would be 3 spots open (now 2), and those three people nominated themselves, so I've followed through. No promises or "explanations" offered in the last few days or tonight would make me change my mind.
 
#3 is still a swing for me
 
@sysadmin1138 ditto and what was the link you gave me to the site with all the SF access data ?
 
Sam
yeah, my 1 and 2 were easy, the third swung a bit
 
Ben
I read over the speeches, but I voted according to what I've seen over my time here over the last year. A speech or chat session really wouldn't change much to be honest
 
9:10 PM
@Iain Ah... quantcast.com/serverfault.com I believe.
 
Sam
it does still say 3 winners on the site, someone should prob change that
 
@sysadmin1138 thats the one - cheers
 
You can really see when we lost our google indexing last August.
 
oh site stats? that's pretty cool @sysadmin1138
kinda interesting tho that it didn't take long to recover back to that level
 
The big drop at the backend of August ?
 
9:13 PM
That's the one. Right after we got slashdotted.
 
the interesting stats for me are the global traffic frequency
 
Indeed, more than half of our traffic doesn't originate in the US.
 
and 62% of visits (84% of users) are transient
whereas SO has many more people who are regulars
 
Seems correct given that many of our questions are non-SAs who have been momentarily drafted into "fixing the computer". Whereas almost nobody is ever momentarily drafted into refactoring C#.
2
 
@ChrisS great point well made
 
9:21 PM
@ChrisS yup. For every deep technical question we get there are at least 5-10 "OMG Help they locked me in the datacenter and won't let me out until I fix X" questions
 
Sam
That doesn't surprise me, we've been getting more and more 1 rep users asking single questions lately. As you say they have probably been drafted in to fix an issue, but it would be nice if we could encourage them to stay.
 
@Sam following my previous logic, they wouldn't have much to contribute to the site.
 
Sam
@Chriss Well that's true in some cases, but we do get a number of transient users who do seem reasonably knowledgeable.
 
this is an interesting query data.stackexchange.com/serverfault/s/229/…
 
What's also interesting is this query: data.stackexchange.com/superuser/q/65891/… Got that from M.SU.
 
9:26 PM
@Sam some people land play for a while and then just dissapear
 
Sam
@Iain also true
I think SF has a threshold where you have got enough answers, answered enough questions and feel part of the community that you stay, it's getting that threshold low enough that more people cross it.
 
@Sam Early rep-gains are the best way to keep people hooked. A couple of the mod-candidates have mentioned 'upvote more' as part of the discussion process, and that's part of why.
 
@Sam It's a two-sided threshold: you have to have enough questions and be inquisitive enough to learn more (member of the community on the learning side), have enough experience to be able to throw out helpful answers relatively often (member on the answering/teaching side), or enough of both for the balance to make sense :)
@sysadmin1138 Getting past that first 100 rep seems to be the critical threshold
 
Sam
@sysadmin1138 it's a good idea, at least for people who are motivated by rep.
 
I think some of the barrier comes from brand new 1-rep users not being able to do much more than ask questions and post answers. There are good reasons for that, but I've seen frustration because of it.
 
Sam
9:38 PM
True. If you came here because you wanted to take part in SF then it's pretty easy to get over that hurdle quite quickly, but if you just came here to get an answer to a question, the inclination to build the rep up and get to a point where you can do things isn't there.
 
I'm almost at the bottom of the users list in this room. I should be paying more attention and saying more! :-)
@Sam and @sysadmin1138, what do you think of the new "anyone can edit" system that's under development?
 
I'm not Sam or sysadmin1138, but I'm not too keen on it personally
 
37
Q: Is everyone in favor of the new "everyone can edit" idea? Is this really such a good idea?

JoshAs originally requested here and described in Diff is Hard, Let's Go Shopping!: [The team is] planning to open the floodgates and allow everybody to submit content edits on posts Am I the only one who sees this undesirable? In fact, the more I think about it the more I think it has the pos...

I clearly have my own reservations
 
@Josh I caught some of that on MSO recently. It requires an approval-queue of some kind I haven't investigated.
 
But, I think @Sam makes a good point, on a site like ServerFault it could be helpful in gaining more new users
@sysadmin1138 this is one of my major beefs with it
7
Q: Why are users with edit privileges being blocked by users without edit privileges?

Mark ElliotSo it's great that our whole community is now able to provide edit suggestions, but the decision to limit one-click approval status to moderators is causing me some heartburn. Much to my surprise, today I encountered a nearly-good edit, one that I was about to make, and rather than be able to ...

Jeff closed that question. I think we need to discuss that as I believe, as is a user with 1 rep could block* users with 2k+ rep from editing!
Which is bad
 
Sam
9:44 PM
@josh i'm not to sure, I can see that it may be a good thing in principal, and it might help some of those initial users get the incentive to stay, but in practice it may just be work work for everyone else.
 
@Sam my fear exactly!
 
I am still leery of it. Spam-edits will creep in, but that's what the approval process is for.
The down-side, at least for SF, is that some of our questions aren't trafficed enough for proposed-edits to garner enough approvals.
 
> But I think that this potentially doubles the work for people (like myself) who like to edit. Now, instead of just doing the edits ourselves, we have to review someone else's edits and it now takes two users to approve the edit another user made, so what could previously have been done with one user now takes three.
 
@Sam I'm OK with the work, I kinda agree with the other post -- once you earn Edit privs you should be able to approve anyone's edit one-click.
 
@sysadmin1138 this is an excellent concern I hadn't even thought of
 
9:46 PM
but I don't think I'll spend much time trolling the edit bin personally
 
I personally love editing
 
if I think a question needs editing I edit it
 
> we are starting out with requiring 2 approvers ... we may relax it ... we may introduce a single click approve for 20k users ... we may allow single click approval for content owners ... I don't know ... still to early to tell – waffles
 
If I think a question is nonsensical and I can't figure out what they're saying
shrug
 
Sam
@Josh I think the biggest problem is going to spam edits as sysadmin mentioned, not bad edits by real users.
 
9:47 PM
We dfinitely need a 10K tool to list pending-edits.
 
Sam
@sysadmin1138 definately
 
@Sam Agreed. FWIW, Waffles said that when he started requiring a comment on edit, the bad edits dropped right off
 
Honestly, we've reached a point feature-wise where we do need some kind of 3K-tools list.
 
in The Tavern (General) on Meta Stack Overflow Chat, yesterday, by waffles
I have not got bad edits ever since I introduced a "required" comment for all edit suggestions
That eases my concerns some
 
Sam
and that brings up one of the possible benefits, that with anyone able to edit, it will flag more posts that need an edit to the higher users, especially if there is a tool for it. Meaning better questions.
 
9:50 PM
Yeah. I need to spend more time editing on SF now that I have the ability
So far my attempt at the 10k challenge isn't going so well, damn work getting in the way! :-)
 
Sam
I think it's something that is worth a try, I've no problem at all with approving good edits that make thinks better, and if what waffles says is correct and the spam issue is not such a concern, then it may work well.
 
Dan
I wish i could hang out in the town hall, but I have medic training tonight, so i'm off!
 
@Dan Catch you later
 
Ben
Later @Dan
 
Anything you want us to ask for you @Dan?
 
Dan
9:52 PM
Nope, i've already voted, but thanks.
 
Hi everyone
 
Ben
Evening @RobertMoir
 
@RobertMoir Hey there
 
tuesday was much better than monday i have to say
no 80 degree server rooms this morning
 
Ben
Yeah, that sounded quite a day you had yesterday!
 
9:55 PM
Yeah, you don't need too many of those
took most of today to recover all the servers and be back to 100% though
 
Ben
Eek
 
quite an interesting one - i had to do a system state restore on a windows server that had a corrupt DHCP database
 
Sam
sounds like a world of fun!
 
which meant that the secure channel to the domain was broken
it was also a certificate server
so you can't just leave and re-join the domain
 
Ben
Ick, certificate servers aren't fun
 
9:58 PM
so had to backup, and then remove the cert server and cert store
 
@RobertMoir Done that before..
 
then do the domain membership dance, re-install the cert service and restore the certificate store and keys
@sysadmin1138 a lot of work for something that should be a nice easy job normally huh
 
@RobertMoir Yeah. We had to do that as part of our upgrade-to-2008 dance. It worked, but tedious.
 
ugh
 
/me leans back and heaves a sigh of relief - No windows in this environment
 
10:02 PM
heh i think all systems have their oddities though, their 'here be dragons' part of the system
 
@RobertMoir ain't that the truth.... and now off to slay some dragons (meeting time, then day over!) -- later all
 
take care
 
Sam
cheerio
yaaawn, staying awake and alert until midnight for this townhall shouldn't be a challenge, it never was when I was younger!
 
we're all getting old!
 
passes out cups of coffee, despite thinking coffee is nasty.
 
10:09 PM
Mmmm, coffeee.
 
why thanks
 
Ben
Rebecca, that's an invitation to get mobbed if I ever did hear one
 
Sam
I hate the taste of cofee and tea, I have to resort to diet coke for my cafine fix, so i'll be awake but with rotting bones.
 
There's always a nice cup of tea
 
@Sam Ha. I'll be there with you. Eventually. 4pm for me right now. (:
 
10:11 PM
Mtn Dew FTW
 
diet coke and Tea for me. Er, not at the same time obviously
 
@RebeccaChernoff why thank you
 
s/Mtn Dew/Dr Pepper/ and we're good.
 
7-up and southern comfort is nice too but that scratches a different itch
dr pepper's good too
 
Ben
Now you're talking @RebeccaChernoff :-)
 
10:12 PM
not enough caffine ... but coffee always ftw
:-D
 
Sam
I think they banned Mtn Dew here, at least for a while.
 
blasphemy
although i had manage to kick the stuff till i started here and they had it just sitting in the fridge staring at me
 
Mtn Dew in the fridge? Staring at you? Creepy.
 
Sam
that's my worst problem, we get free soft drinks and biscuits (or cookies for you US folks) at work.
 
I get free water!
 
10:14 PM
not so good
 
Sam
and free fruit as well, but chocolate hob nobs are always more tempting
 
too tempting
 
@Zypher Does the SO office do lunch like the FogCreek office does?
 
ja we do lunch WITH the FC people
 
sounds good to me
 
10:21 PM
So I know you won't display the votes until the election is complete, but does anyone know if they are going to have any real-time indication of how many people have voted?
2
 
Going to try get home before the town hall.
Don't want to do it at work.
bbiaf.
 
@Zoredache I'm not seeing any "I Voted!" flash on my profile.
 
I am really curious if how many people are going to participate.
 
I'd like to know too
Watching SO's primary has been very intersting
 
I will be somewhat surprised if we actually see more then a few hundred people actually vote, and even that seems high.
 
10:25 PM
I will be sad if only a few hundred people vote
 
Sam
Yeah it would be nice to see a good represenation, but I fear we may only get those that a really involved in the site, and those that happen to be attracted to the big blue bar.
Was there talk of an email going out as well?
 
I haven't seen an email yet.
 
Sam
Me either
 
Ben
I thought Jeff and co hated email
 
Sam
I think they see it as a neccasery evil in some occasions, but i'm sure I read something about an email going out, but I may have made it up.
 
10:31 PM
I just know that wednesday at 1pm local I'll be hitting refresh avidly.
 
I think 172 users will vote, I tried to spoil my ballot paper like usual but ran out of care
 
Ben
Do you reckon between the 7 of us we could DDoS Server Fault? :-)
 
@Ben HAProxy would probably not let you :-)
 
Sam
That's the problem with these online elections, their much harder to rig and intimidate voters
 
@Chopper3 is that a random figure ?
 
10:34 PM
Educated
 
based on ... ?
 
Ben
Stuffâ„¢ ?
 
50% bullshit, 50% pattern analysis & 50% hyper accurate maths
 
Wow, that's really giving 110%!
 
Sam
oooh 150%, thats more than 100, therfore better
 
10:36 PM
I've got a 1Gb pipe here, just say the word
 
Precisely
 
Ben
@Chopper3 did you dream up ManBearPig for the folks at Comedy Central?
 
I was once part of a distributed hacking group that managed to 'rig' the uk entry for something called the eurovision song contest :)
Excelsior!!!
 
Sam
lol really, which talentless fop did you land us with?
 
Daz Sampson, remember everyones shock? Quits in :)
 
10:39 PM
So, n00b voter here. I have a question: Is there any final confirmation after I click my selections? I don't see a lever to commit my vote and open the curtain...
 
Sam
ha ha, that really was terrible!
 
Jacket, if we like your vote you get a confirmation email, if not we didn't ok
 
@jscott The commit lever slams down in 8 days. Until then you can move your 1,2,3 votes around as needed.
 
Sam
@Chopper3 was that the "What did you learn at school" song
 
@sysadmin1138 Thanks.
 
10:40 PM
Jacket=jscott
Yeah
 
@Chopper3 Got that Apple iOS auto-correct? :)
 
Yep, iPad
 
@SpacemanSpiff bah ... won't do you much good when the rate limiter smacks you
 
yeah, probably. :)
but those first 3 seconds will be vicious
 
hahaha you think you'd last 3 seconds?
 
10:50 PM
I have no idea, honestly.
 
i have no idea what your talking about :-D
 
So is there a weight on the votes? That is do x "First Choices" beat out x(weight) "Second Choices"?
 
Best of luck to nominees, i'm out! Take it easy
 
@jscott It's not well documented. And the answer is too long for chat.
 
10:54 PM
you too spacemanspiff
 
Ben
Catch you later @SpacemanSpiff
 
@jscott Or rather, it'd pedantically well documented, just not here.
 
@sysadmin1138 Understood.
 
Sam
later @SpacemanSpiff
 
night all
 
Sam
10:54 PM
night @Iain
 
night Iain
 
Ben
@jscott it says on the election page it's done using the Meek STV method
 
Goodnight to those departing
 
Ben
night Iain
(I haven't read the wikipedia article, so I couldn't tell you if it's any good)
 
This day was going okay... until I had to work on Joomla stuff. Seriously, saps the strenff right out of a body.
 
10:56 PM
Ah, comfort on the couch.
 
@Ben Thanks! Over looked that.
 
@Warner I'm just in my squeeky office-chair.
 
guess you made it home ok then Warner
 
haha.
Going to see the Big Lewbowski at the Movie Tavern after this.
Wanted to be home so I could leave with the wife.
The town hall thing is going to make us late.
 
Sam
awesome film
 
10:57 PM
Totally, one of my favorites.
 
That says it all @Chopper3 wins the debate
... oh wait ... nevermind :)
 
@Farseeker, you are mostly, known as Farseeker. meta.stackoverflow.com/users/131874/farseeker?tab=accounts I wonder which name is selected on stackexchange.com when a user has an account on multiple sites.
 
11:42 PM
need some quick help guys...I have some driver files that I need to present to my VM by giving it a floppy disk image. What is the easiest way in Windows XP to take some files such as .ini and .cat and wrap them up into an image file?
I know I'm exposing my ignorance...but I've never had to do this before. I have RawWrite and dd for Windows, but it seems they either read from a physical drive and write to an image file, or the other way around
 
hmmmm
 
Do you have another working VM? Why not attack a floppy image to a different VM, write the files, and then reattach the image to the VM you need the drivers on?
 
Could you make an empty file, assign it to the VM's floppy drive, format it inside the VM, and then somehow mount that on a real machine?
Ah, @Zoredache beat me to it
 
@Josh at least with 3.5 you could attach an img floppy image just like and iso cdrom image
 
@Zypher ah, OK, never tried this before
 
11:48 PM
What VM software are you using? Vmware ESXi, workstation, virtualbox, something else?
 
OK...not a bad thought. I only have one virtual machine running (Win2K8R2) on a VMWare ESXi 4.1 host right now.
I'll see if I can do something like that, ideally I don't want to install anything on that Windows Server VM though
 
What kind of driver do you need at boot time in ESXi?
 
I'm installing XP Pro 64 bit on a VM with the LSI Logic Parallel SCSI controller - the Buslogic one is not recommended for that guest OS, but XP doesn't recognize the LSI controller, so I'm trying to F6 and give it a floppy. I downloaded the driver files from LSI, but they are just zipped up, not in an image format
I know there is a vmware floppy image on ESXi, but I tried that and it's not working...don't think it has drivers for XP 64 bit
 
Something like winimage may work. winimage.com/winimage.htm But that is crippleware. I am not sure if you can make a floppy disk image without paying.
I know I used in the past for a few similar tasks, ant it was useful, but I haven't used it i a few years.
 

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