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01:08
@Undo Would this work: Call me a banana?
 
3 hours later…
04:17
that's 100% real
 
3 hours later…
07:35
Morning :)
 
9 hours later…
16:37
ATP offers to become an airline pilot for ~$75,000 (including housing). They are Part 141. — Farhan yesterday
@casey that's not a bad deal
@Farhan are they part 141? I instructed for them back in 2004/05 and they were part 61 back then
I assume that's not inclusive of the college degree most airlines want to see though
@voretaq7 no, that is just zero to hero, no degree included
@casey I think they've got a Part 141 program now, they do Part 61 instructing too though.
16:38
@casey ATC? I was surprised too but they mentioned that on their website.
and wow has that inflated. When I instructed there they were only charging $35k for the whole deal
Avgas ain't cheap! :P
(Instructors is cheap. They don't need to eat, right?)
To be honest, I am not sure what they mean by this sentence:
ATP’s fixed cost pricing includes flight training in excess of FAA Part 141 minimums...
@voretaq7 the instructor pay was terrible when I was there, but all you needed to do was buy food and pay phone/car/gas. housing was provided and if you weren't sleeping or eating, you were at the airport
@casey Instructor pay seems to be uniformly terrible everywhere, except maybe at Flight Safety International
16:42
@Farhan no idea. The program in 04/05 was 200 hours TT in airplanes (40ish single, 160ish multi) and 50 hours in an ATD.
and 40ish of those multi hours are the dual pilot ops where you have a safety pilot and both log PIC.
Presumably now they have to train you up to 1500 (or whatever the restricted ATP is - 1250?) hours
@voretaq7 you could do that in 12-18 months pretty easily instructing there
and it would almost entirely be multi time
yeah intensive instructing is about the only way to do it if you don't join the military.That's a LOT of avgas (especially since you want a lot of it to be multi time).
Their fast paced program gives you TT of 1500, CFI job and a guaranteed airline interview.
plus, the low pay prepares you to help lower the bar at whatever regional you end up at!
16:46
... all for $70,000 from scratch
@voretaq7 a slow location would get you ~50 hrs/month and the busy locations you could max out your flying every day if you wanted to.
at least in 04/05
no idea what its like there now
@casey idunno man, I hear American Eagle pays you in peanuts (literally - you can eat what you find in the galleys!) :P
@voretaq7 You mean the leftovers?
@voretaq7 wouldn't surprise me. My first hand knowledge is severely dated at this point
@Farhan Well I meant the wrappers, but if there's a peanut in there I guess the FO can have it.
16:49
I was at ExpressJet and as regionals go, that was one of the best places to be, for a time anyway
If I were going to try to make a profitable run at this aviation thing I'd be inclined to look at a corporate flight department (or a university instructing job where you might actually make enough to eat and have a roof over your head)
(note that the expressjet of today is not the expressjet I was part of)
@voretaq7 puppy mill instructing is a lot of work. burnout is a real problem
I'd go for corp if you can find it
@casey I guess that's what @Lnafziger is doing.
@casey Seems to be a big "if" these days, most of them are quite happy with their expensive pilots and don't want to buy - er, hire - any more.
@voretaq7 yep, getting into one of those flight departments is difficult. Have to be in the right place at the right time and know the right person.
16:52
@casey Farmingdale State seems to treat their instructors pretty well. And I think they only lit two Cherokees on fire this year which is pretty good for them...
but if you found your way in...
@voretaq7 hah
@casey It's permissible to smack the student's hand if they use the throttle to prime the engine, right? :)
ATP had a great record for the number of seminoles they operated. Through 05 (haven't kept up) the only incidents involved examiners, not instructors :)
rbp
rbp
@falstro was it you who was asking the other day about two RNAV approaches to the same runway?
@voretaq7 my friend who worked as an ERJ FO at Ameican Eagle said that when she was on "ready reserve," she couldn't even buy a cup of coffee in the airport and not lose money for that hour
@rbp that is terrible. airport reserve at XJT just meant you had to be inside security in the terminal, but nothing more than that. 4 hours max, then released to rest if not used.
rbp
rbp
17:08
@falstro " The
designation of two area navigation (RNAV) procedures
to the same runway can occur when it is desirable to
accommodate panel mounted GPS receivers and flight
management systems (FMSs), both with and without
vertical navigation (VNAV)."
@rbp . . . which airport? A cup of coffee at JFK is like $32.50, I know some senior managers who might lose money on that deal :P
rbp
rbp
@voretaq7 KORD
they even charge "street" prices if you swipe your crew ID, and she STILL lost money
i think they paid her less than $3 / hr
@rbp ...that might cost more than JFK if you don't have a Chicago accent. (Also they might break your legs and throw you in the foundation pit for the new terminal)
rbp
rbp
oh hush. new yorkers are great
@rbp they didn't pay soft pay for airport reserve? That is really terrible.
17:10
Yes we are. Now move aside or we'll trample your ass to get to our destination!
At XJT you got per-diem and your normal pay rate, though it wouldn't make a different unless you went over guarantee for the month (75 hours for us)
rbp
rbp
@casey she didn't get into the exact details. she just said she lost money every time she bought coffee at the airport
and she lived in a 2br flop house with 3 bunk beds / br when she was on reserve
@rbp thats normal :)
When I was a reserve captain I stayed in a house in Elizabeth, NJ with probably 10 other people
assigned bunk though, so it was OK
rbp
rbp
yes, assigned bunk, not 'hot bunks'
on the bad side, it wasn't just pilots, but also flight attendents and mechanics and no one had the same schedule
crashpads are the life of reserve and commuters
always sucked when you had to fly in a day early because there is no way to commute same day for a 6AM show :(
rbp
rbp
17:16
yeah, she commuted from the SFO
rbp
rbp
17:55
@CGCampbell i rejected that ATC edit because he changed all the quotes from " and ' to “ and ’
the NBD -> NDB should definitely be edited, but I don't think changing the kinds of quotation marks helps
 
1 hour later…
19:01
@rbp I agree with that.
@rbp FUCK SMARTQUOTES.
rbp
rbp
well, i should have left in the NDB change, and removed all the rest of them. as it is, i can't change it myself anymore. @voretaq7 i'm sure you can
@rbp eh you should still be able to edit it no?
or do you mean a comment?
@rbp If you had clicked Approve and Edit, you could have done it
rbp
rbp
@Farhan yes, i didn't click approve and edit. i clicked EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE
sorry, wrong chat
19:04
@rbp I was just feeling lazy :(
rbp
rbp
@voretaq7 @farhan ok, the edit must have gotten sufficiently rejected, and I was able to make the change aviation.stackexchange.com/posts/11506/revisions
19:29
@rbp sufficiently rejected? Did you mean sufficiently edited?
rbp
rbp
@Farhan after I rejected it, i thought maybe I should just make the NDB edit, and then it wouldn't let me edit it. but when i went back 20 minutes ago, I could edit it again because the edit had been rejected.
@rbp Oh that. I think and edit requires to be approved/rejected by 2 our of 3. After you rejected, it had one accepted and one rejected vote/flag. Once I did the noble act of rejecting it too, then you were able to edit it, as it was not longer pending a change.
But below 1000 rep, you cannot edit a post unless you make a several characters' change. Probably that's why that person changed the quotation marks too since simply correcting NBD -> NDB wasn't letting him save the edit.
rbp
rbp
19:57
Makes sense.
 
2 hours later…
21:53
From the "Jeez guys, have you actually read the regs?!" department -- FlyteNow sues the FAA
22:42
5
Q: Can a pilot with an ICAO Multi-Crew Pilot License fly an airliner into the U.S.?

reirabIn the question How do non-US pilots get the hours necessary for an ATP?, the question was raised of whether we have 250 or 500 hour foreign pilots flying airliners into major U.S. airports. DeltaLima's answer mentioned the ICAO Multi-Crew Pilot License (MPL), which allows a pilot to exercise...

^^ I'm 90% sure the answer is yes but can't find anything good to back that up
rbp
rbp
@voretaq7 i'm glad someone asked this
my understanding is that as long as the countries involved are ICAO states & the registry of the ship matches the issuing country of the pilot license it's kosher
(I know we talked about this when operating N-registed aircraft in Europe came up too)
@voretaq7 I recall there was a question similar to that, non-US pilot flying a plane in the US.
@Farhan yeah but IIRC that dealt with N-registered aircraft (my assumption is if we're talking ATP+MPL crew it's an airline operating something registered in their country of origin).
@voretaq7 It could be in the question (which you mentioned above).
rbp
rbp
23:11
i have this theory that the problem with Malaysia, AF447, and Asiana is that their FOs don't really know how to fly
when the s**t hits the fan
so this guy rolled by my change of NBD to NDB !? aviation.stackexchange.com/posts/11506/revisions
i changed it back, hoping to trigger the automatic rollback war bot
@voretaq7 ugh, i screwed up the rollback. can you help please? aviation.stackexchange.com/posts/11506/revisions

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