The Hangar

What do you fly?

I don't. I've always meant to learn, but haven't quite gotten around to it yet. I work in aviation though, so that's my connection.

@egid I've basically indoctrinated all the instructors I fly with into the FAA "Lights On" program, and the whole "Light goes on when you're moving, off when you're stopping" bit. I usually get a LOT of strange looks when I fly with someone new 'cuz I'm constantly hitting the landing light switch :)

@chatty Cool, what do you do?

@voretaq7 Aeronautical Information Services

4:05 AM

Charts and paper end, or the part that's equivalent to "flight service stations" down here?

(or are there other corners of the system in Canada that I'm not familiar with?)

Charts and Paper.

VNCs, LO/HI charts, etc.

cool. I have only a vague concept of how all the obstacle data gets onto the charts (around here "it doesn't" pretty well covers it)

Hehe. At least you folks have FARs that force people to tell the FAA about new obstacles in certain areas. We've got dinkus...

@chatty BWAHAHAHAHA obeying the law? You MUST be new here :-)

@voretaq7 Are you a flight instructor?

4:13 AM

I forget how long it took for our local crane to go from "Crane, 400 feet AGL, unlighted" to "Crane, 400 feet AGL, flagged and lighted" but I think it took about that long for someone to scream at them and get them to properly report they were operating cranes 4 miles from the airport :P

@chatty naw, perpetual student (half-working on my instrument rating. I put it on hold for winter)

@voretaq7 I wouldn't mind getting into flying, but the price of rentals around here is scary. I doubt I could afford to fly more than two or three hours a month.

@chatty: If you do decide to learn to fly, make sure that you save up your money so that you can do more than that.

Every time I gag about prices here I remember you guys have to pay for your ATC services, and that the aussies have to pay for every pass when they want to shoot practice approaches

You will just keep flying the same 3-4 hours a month every month because you will forget most of what you learned last time...

@chatty I don't know what the conversion process is for FAA PPLs to Canadian PPLs but it might be worth it to do your training here. Just take a month or two and do an intensive course.

4:24 AM

Yeah. I wouldn't consider doing the PPL unless I had the resources to complete it pretty much all at once. I just mean after that.

@voretaq7 Interesting idea with doing it down there and then converting. I might have to look into that

@chatty There's some pain-in-the-ass TSA shit you have to deal with (basically they want to make sure you're not a flippy-headed Canadian terrorist out to subvert us with your revolutionary ideas about free healthcare), but the cost savings may almost justify dealing with our ridiculous government.

quick bit of help please guys

does this show elevation?

!!metar kjfk

............sloooooooooow

remove the delay code LOL

No, metar's don't show elevation. :)

oh, I broke something

undefined is not an object

lol

4:28 AM

Well, technically it is.

ok thanks @Inafziger

I have the data, that's all

not sure whether to include it in the translated !!weather command

e.g.

@voretaq7 Well DHS gave me a NEXUS card, so hopefully I can't be that bad... :D

You can even compare for equality with the undefined object, right?

!!weather eggp

@DannyBeckett EGGP: Pressure (altimeter): 29.41" Hg/996mb • Dewpoint: 2.0°C

4:30 AM

should I add there... Elevation: 9m

?

@chatty The "alien flight training program" is typical TSA red tape: aopa.org/Pilot-Resources/Flight-Instructor-Resources/…

@DannyBeckett: It really isn't relevant for weather reports.

@DannyBeckett nah, people can look up the field elevation if the need to

ok thanks guys!!

@DannyBeckett: If you want to include a new command, you could do something like !!info EGGP and show that along with other info.

(city name, GPS coordinates, runway length(s), links to charts, etc.)

But not for weather.

4:32 AM

Was planning an !!airport one actually

to translate ICAO -> "real"

could add them things too

haha, ICAO-FAA?

no, EGGP -> "Liverpool, UK"

Ahh, gotcha

that would be nice!

yeah

so I can add runway info etc to that too

just about got my head around writing commands for this bot

Cool, along with the elevation then.

4:33 AM

it bitches and complains at every turn

ok cool, thanks!

haha, fun fun!

np

Javascript

:)

I'm off to bed. Gn all!

night mate

night!

@DannyBeckett Where are you planning to get the aerodrome data for the script to use?

4:35 AM

not sure yet, still working on the weather data

open to suggestions!

you guys are the experts

airnav would be my choice if they have a useful data interface

I fixed the !!metar problem

!!metar kjfk

@DannyBeckett KJFK: 050351Z 24010KT 10SM FEW260 M02/M08 A3034 RMK AO2 SLP273 T10221078 $

worldaerodata.com

?

I need a JSON source, ideally

4:37 AM

hmmm

XML's good too, since I've written the wrapper for that now

will check into it when this is done in the next 30 mins ;)

btw... is there a particular order these weather details should be in?

they're supplied in an arbitrary order on the XML feed I have

@DannyBeckett hmmm

You mean the METAR?

no the METAR is fine

they usually some in a standard order

4:39 AM

the English one

!!weather EGGP

@DannyBeckett EGGP: Pressure (altimeter): 29.41" Hg/996mb • Dewpoint: 2.0°C

obviously still need to add a few there

just not sure which order

I would think the same order as the METAR would work. Just written in plan english

this is what I have

altim_in_hg: "30.339567"
dewpoint_c: "-7.8"
elevation_m: "9.0"
flight_category: "VFR"
latitude: "40.63"
longitude: "-73.77"
metar_type: "METAR"
observation_time: "2014-01-05T03:51:00Z"
quality_control_flags: Object
raw_text: "KJFK 050351Z 24010KT 10SM FEW260 M02/M08 A3034 RMK AO2 SLP273 T10221078 $"
sea_level_pressure_mb: "1027.3"
sky_condition: Object
station_id: "KJFK"
temp_c: "-2.2"
visibility_statute_mi: "10.0"
wind_dir_degrees: "240"
wind_speed_kt: "10"

Station, Time, Wind, Visibility, Sky Cover, Temperature, Dew Point, Altimeter, "Remarks"

4:40 AM

@chatty that'd be good if I could understand METAR ;p

I guess it's METAR, Station, etc..... technically (if you want to encode METAR vs SPECI)

sky_condition: Object
@attributes: Object
cloud_base_ft_agl: "26000"
sky_cover: "FEW"

I'm going to assume "Sky Condition: Object" is a Javascript thing and not "There's a goddamn bird sitting on the laser."

@voretaq7 thanks for that.. will use that for now

lmao, yes!

back in a bit...

Sky conditions are either "clear" or "cover, altitude" (Scattered 5000, broken 7000, overcast 12000) etc.

4:43 AM

ok, will get back to you soon :)

it's coming along...

!!weather kjfk

@DannyBeckett KJFK: • Observed at: 2014-01-05T03:51:00Z • Wind: 240° @ 10kts • Visibility: 10.0mi • Pressure (altimeter): 30.34" Hg/1,027mb • Dewpoint: -7.8°C

is the "WSW" part of 240° customary?

I guess I need to calculate that

Most folks can read a compass (we hope) :)

can somebody confirm this is correct/looks correct?

var dir;

if(wd >= 0 && wd <= 11.25)
{
	dir = 'N';
}

if(wd > 348.75 && wd <= 360)
{
	dir = 'N';
}

if(wd > 11.25 && wd <= 33.75)
{
	dir = 'NNE';
}

if(wd > 33.75 && wd <= 56.25)
{
	dir = 'NE';
}

if(wd > 56.25 && wd <= 78.75)
{
	dir = 'ENE';
}

if(wd > 78.75 && wd <= 101.25)
{
	dir = 'E';
}

if(wd > 101.25 && wd <= 123.75)
{
	dir = 'ESE';
}

if(wd > 123.75 && wd <= 146.25)
{
	dir = 'SE';
}

if(wd > 146.25 && wd <= 168.75)
{
	dir = 'SSE';
}

if(wd > 168.75 && wd <= 191.25)
{
	dir = 'S';
}

if(wd > 191.25 && wd <= 213.75)

(found on the internet)

4:59 AM

seems reasonable

Yeah

cool, just reloading the bot

!!weather eggp

@DannyBeckett EGGP: • Observed at: 2014-01-05T03:20:00Z • Wind: 250° (WSW) @ 8kts • Visibility: 6.21mi • Pressure (altimeter): 29.41" Hg/996mb • Dewpoint: 2.0°C

is there any need for decimal places on the visibility @voretaq7?

if so, how many...

@DannyBeckett sometimes it may report half or quarter mile

5:03 AM

ok cool, will keep it as is

well. i'm out for the night

cya folks

seeya

....gonna need to add farenheit here too, I just realised

;)

°C x 9/5 + 32 = °F

cold in new york

!!weather kjfk

@DannyBeckett KJFK: • Observed at: 2014-01-05T04:51:00Z • Wind: 240°/WSW @ 9kts • Visibility: 10.0mi • Pressure (altimeter): 30.33" Hg/1,027mb • Temperature: -2.8°C • Dewpoint: -7.8°C

5:08 AM

thanks for that @chatty

lol... and km too

!!weather kjfk

@DannyBeckett KJFK: • Observed at: 2014-01-05T04:51:00Z • Wind: 240°/WSW @ 9kts • Visibility: 10.0mi • Pressure (altimeter): 30.33" Hg/1,027mb • Temperature: -2.8°C/27°F • Dewpoint: -7.8°C/18°F

aaaand kilometres there now too

!!weather kjfk

@DannyBeckett KJFK: • Observed at: 2014-01-05T04:51:00Z • Wind: 240°/WSW @ 9kts • Visibility: 10.0mi/16.09km • Pressure (altimeter): 30.33" Hg/1,027mb • Temperature: -2.8°C/27°F • Dewpoint: -7.8°C/18°F

5:25 AM

@voretaq7 do you know what an "auto station" might be?

it's in the "quality control flags"

along with the $ maintenance indicator

maybe "SOME DATA ABOVE MAY BE INACCURATE!!!" ?

AUTO as a remark?

quality_control_flags: Object
auto_station: "TRUE"
maintenance_indicator_on: "TRUE"

that's what I see

the 2nd one is the $

for JFK?

yeah

I can punch in another airport?

see what it says

hmm

ah its probably decoding A02

Jimmy Hoffa

5:27 AM

How am I in this room?

I don't even know what this room is about

(automated station w/ precip discriminator(

EGGP (Liverpool) comes up with neither of them 2 QC flags

@JimmyHoffa Chaos monkey? :)

@DannyBeckett does it have any remarks coded? non-us stations often dont

it has CAVOK

under Sky Cover

btw I think auto_station is the DATA MAY BE INACCURATE!!! warning on the normal page you'd look at

@DannyBeckett "ceiling & visability ok"

5:33 AM

because for KTVL I have:

@DannyBeckett no thats the $

auto: "TRUE"
auto_station: "TRUE"

or should be the $ (maintenance)

which comes up as: automated observation with no human augmentation;
there may or may not be significant weather present at this time

yeah the $ is maintanence_something

@voretaq7 ah, that makes sense (CAVOK)

I saw a list of what each of these items meant earlier

can't find it now

ah I found it :D aviationweather.gov/adds/dataserver/metars/…

but the fucking 'QC flags' part is dead @voretaq7

another question.. is Flight category: VFR|MVFR|IFR|LIFR worth adding?

!!weather kjfk

@DannyBeckett KJFK: • Observed at: 2014-01-05T04:51:00Z • Wind: 240°/WSW @ 9kts • Visibility: 10.0mi/16.09km • Temperature: -2.8°C/27°F • Dewpoint: -7.8°C/18°F • Pressure (altimeter): 30.33" Hg/1,027mb

5:38 AM

@DannyBeckett aviationweather.gov/adds/dataserver/metars/…

thats where it should take you

wahey!

nice job

they're all decoded from RMK codes though

like republic is an auto_station (A02); right now its also "auto" (AUTO) because the tower closes at 2300 local & there's nobody to code anything the station misses

ah ok!

is Flight category: VFR|MVFR|IFR|LIFR worth adding?

at 0700 local the AUTO tag clears but auto_station should stay

ah that's actually pretty cool

5:44 AM

@DannyBeckett probably - you can infer it from ceiling & visibility but if you're translating it you may as well say that too :)

Should I display it like that?

or like Flight rules: Visual

I guess VFR makes more sense

the abbreviations should be fine

but "Flight Category" or what?

"Conditions"?

conditions makes sense to me. so does "KJFK: VFR ....."

even better

5:48 AM

By the by, interesting random fact: There's (usually) a phone number you can call to listen to the AWOS weather at bigger airports

Kinda useless for you since it would be an international call though

there was a guy here earlier who was giving info of how to listen to it online

he was suggesting to make a command out of it

VOLMET (is that the same thing?)

Republic's is (+1) 631-752-8129

e.g. go to websdr.ewi.utwente.nl:8901 (either allow Java or switch both of the buttons to HTML5 instead) and then type frequency 5505 for Shannon

@DannyBeckett those are repeater stations, I don't think we have many here.

ah I see ok!

5:51 AM

usually there's an ATIS at larger fields, or if you click your mic a few times on the CTAF/UNICOM frequency the weather station talks to you and repeats what you can get on the phone

!!weather kmia

@DannyBeckett KMIA: VFR • Observed at: 2014-01-05T04:53:00Z • Wind: 100°/E @ 10kts • Visibility: 10.0mi/16.09km • Temperature: 23.9°C/75°F • Dewpoint: 20.0°C/68°F • Pressure (altimeter): 30.09" Hg/1,019mb

The FAA lists the stations (and frequencies/phone numbers for ones that have them)

that's cool

I'm gonna make a little list of these suggestions

that'd make a good command too

(probably a lot easier than decoding this weather data too, since there are only a couple of fields)

I don't know anybody but me that uses the phone numbers. The one at republic used to be useful because they had it set to one-minute weather but whoever configures the station keeps switching it to only trigger hourly.

5:55 AM

lol

started the list now: github.com/dannybeckett/SO-ChatBot/blob/master/README.md

JFK is still set up as one-minute weather :)

what's that mean exactly?

if you call the number for Kennedy you get the current weather (within the last 60 seconds)

and it updates every minute?

the voice just repeats the observations a couple of times and then hangs up on you

yeah

5:59 AM

I see

There was one out in california I used to have in my phone because they never installed the laser for cloud detection so it would always say "Sky condition: MISSING."

(which is INFINITELY more fun when you're drunk at parties with a bunch of other people from the airport)

lol!

on the subject of sky conditions, could you give me a quick run down of these please?

SKC|CLR|CAVOK|FEW|SCT|BKN|OVC|OVX

you told me CAVOK already

SKC = "Sky Clear", CLR = "Clear", CAVOK = "Ceiling & Visibility OK", Few = "few clouds", SCT = "scattered clouds", BKN = "broken clouds" (ceiling), OVC = "Overcast" (ceiling), and OVX.... I have to look up

> OVX present when vert_vis_ft is reported.

> vert_vis_ft Vertical Visibility integer ft

does that help?

Ah OVX is "obscured"

6:03 AM

thanks a lot btw

(it's not a standard code)

is there a difference between SKC and CLR then?

and yeah it shows up when there's a VV value and the station isn't reporting clouds (like if you're fogged in)

ah right

hahaha the page I had to look that up on also has a link to the cave drawings

(which are utterly useless IMHO, but yet we spent money developing those cave drawings!)

6:07 AM

w...t...f

yeah I can't really see when they'd be used

in a war, perhaps

to secretly communicate the weather in Germany or something :p

you'll find them on some of the FAA's weather maps

lol, odd

Personally I think they try to make aviation weather as difficult and inaccessible as possible.

how come

well they still expect you to learn to read raw METARs

6:11 AM

ah right... ok, now I know what you mean ;) haha

and OH GOD THE MAPS

those have actually gotten less terrible

can you show me one maybe?

lets see if I can find one suitably terrible...

also... is there a difference between SKC and CLR?

here we go - airmet/sigmet maps: aviationweather.gov/products/gairmet/displaygairmet

6:16 AM

lol, apparently I did something wrong:

@DannyBeckett not for any practical purposes :-)

!!weather kmia

@DannyBeckett KMIA: VFR • Observed at: 2014-01-05T05:53:00Z • Wind: 100°/E @ 10kts • Visibility: 10.0mi/16.09km • Sky: undefined • Temperature: 23.3°C/74°F • Dewpoint: 20.0°C/68°F • Pressure (altimeter): 30.06" Hg/1,018mb

"Sky: undefined"

@voretaq7 thanks

CLR = "Sky clear below 12,000 feet" (usually means an automated report in the US). SKC = "Sky clear" (the international code. Means a human looked out the window in the US)

6:17 AM

@voretaq7 yeah I don't think I even want to know how to interpret them maps

haha nice, "a human looked outside"

@DannyBeckett "More cave drawings"

lol ;p

oh shit there can be more than 1 sky condition, I just noticed

most of the weather products we use date back to the 60s/70s

should've guessed that tbh

yeah if there are clouds you'll get a code for each letter

6:19 AM

0:
@attributes: Object
cloud_base_ft_agl: "2500"
sky_cover: "FEW"
1:
@attributes: Object
cloud_base_ft_agl: "4200"
sky_cover: "SCT"
2:
@attributes: Object
cloud_base_ft_agl: "13000"
sky_cover: "OVC"

yup

brb

lol

I did live in Amsterdam ;)

lol

yeah I'll probably head to bed in about 20-30 minutes

6:23 AM

ah ok no worries man

try the !!weather command tomorrow

good talking

likewise :)

6:53 AM

Info about the bot: github.com/dannybeckett/SO-ChatBot/blob/master/README.md

8:15 AM

clouds are working now. will add QC flags tomorrow:

!!weather KMIA

@DannyBeckett KMIA: VFR • Observed at: 2014-01-05T07:53:00Z • Wind: 130°/SE @ 3kts • Visibility: 10.0mi/16.09km • Sky: Overcast @ 13,000ft AGL • Temperature: 22.2°C/72°F • Dewpoint: 20.0°C/68°F • Pressure (altimeter): 30.03" Hg/1,017mb

!!weather KJFK

@DannyBeckett KJFK: VFR • Observed at: 2014-01-05T07:51:00Z • Wind: 270°/W @ 5kts • Visibility: 10.0mi/16.09km • Sky: Few clouds @ 3,500ft AGL; Scattered clouds @ 26,000ft AGL • Temperature: -2.2°C/28°F • Dewpoint: -6.1°C/21°F • Pressure (altimeter): 30.32" Hg/1,027mb

!!metar EGGP

@DannyBeckett EGGP: 050750Z 16007KT 130V200 CAVOK 03/01 Q0998

3:48 PM

!!metar KMIA

@lnafziger KMIA: 051453Z 14008KT 10SM FEW023 SCT040 SCT250 25/22 A3006 RMK AO2 SLP178 T02500217 51021

!!metar MIA

@lnafziger No METAR data could be found within the last 24 hours for MIA! Check you input the correct ICAO code.

@DannyBeckett: If you get a three letter code, and it doesn't have any data, you may want to try adding a "K" to the beginning of it and see if it is valid.

!!weather KMIA

@lnafziger KMIA: VFR • Observed at: 2014-01-05T14:53:00Z • Wind: 140°/SE @ 8kts • Visibility: 10.0mi/16.09km • Sky: Few clouds @ 2,300ft AGL; Scattered clouds @ 4,000ft AGL; Scattered clouds @ 25,000ft AGL • Temperature: 25.0°C/77°F • Dewpoint: 21.7°C/71°F • Pressure (altimeter): 30.06" Hg/1,018mb

Q: Should we use MathJaX to typeset some equations?

3:49 PM

@DannyBeckett: Also, we may want to decode that date/time string into something slightly more readable. :)

Stack Exchange

5:23 PM

0

I was writing an answer to this question and I needed to derive some relations to make it clearer and because I think that in some cases, it is better to use an equation than a lot of text. However, to typeset equations, it is quite tedious... Should we ask for and use MathJaX to simplify and get...

7:18 PM

@lnafziger my suggestion would be to just put Observed: 4 min ago instead of a UTC timestamp. cc @DannyBeckett

Also, I really don't think we need the cardinal direction in the wind, such as "SE"

I'd agree with that

@egid do you have feelings about the "AGL" after each cloud layer? That's already implied by the fact that it's a METAR, and every pilot should know that.

But maybe the fact that it's decoded means the implication isn't as strong.

8:11 PM

I forget what the decoded ADDS tool does but that should probably be the model

oh, right, that's what it links to :D yeah, I'd say stick with AGL when decoding

@BretCopeland: I had the same thought about AGL, but since it is decoded it can be used by non-pilots as well

@lnafziger How many non-pilots who would come here know what AGL stands for?

can you wrap it in an abbr tag? :)

nooop

The more I think about it, the more I'm in favor of getting rid of AGL, because you can click on the identifier link and see the entire thing decoded in a more verbose form.

i think you could s/Pressure (altimeter)/Pressure/

that would clean it up a lot more than the couple of AGLs you might see

:)

8:24 PM

No reason you can't do both.

Does it handle gusts correctly yet?

!!weather KHAF

@egid KHAF: VFR • Observed at: 2014-01-05T20:15:00Z • Wind: 70°/ENE @ 9kts • Visibility: 9.0mi/14.48km • Sky: Clear • Temperature: 20.0°C/68°F • Dewpoint: 0.0°C/32°F • Pressure (altimeter): 30.14" Hg/1,020mb

!!metar KHAF

@egid KHAF: 052015Z AUTO 07009G15KT 9SM CLR 20/00 A3014 RMK AO2

Looks like no!

8:28 PM

Another question, does anyone care about °F?

@DannyBeckett notice the missing gust that @egid pointed out above. 07009G15KT should be decoded as Wind: 70° @ 9kts gusting to 15 kts

I like having both F and C

(in the decoded form)

if people want compact they can always !!metar ;)