does anyone have any suggestions for aviation-related shows worth watching? Other than Air Crash Investigation/Mayday, Aircrash Confidential, Mighty Planes, and Seconds From Disaster? @voretaq7 @egid @BretCopeland @Inafziger

I don't really have any suggestions :)

aside from "avoid Mythbusters"

yeah, no... lol

I have a folder full of aviation shows on my laptop... can't get enough of them

this was sickening, but very interesting:

!!youtube September 11th Audio Tapes

I had no idea before watching that, that the military got clearance to shoot down any planes not responding to their direction. Could have easily ended even worse. Fucking sick anyway. I can only imagine how it must have been for you in NY @voretaq7

hooooooly shit :| vine.co/v/h9PBY0Z2DIz

Kottke found this horrifying six second video by Paglo, a Vine user from Cholula, in Mexico. It looks like a bunch of hairs, some ridiculous abandoned mustache on a plastic container, but wait until he touches it with his finger and try no to recoil and/or scream with what happens next

back on to aviation-related:

!!youtube DC3 low and fast.MOV

@DannyBeckett I'm not a fan of "Seconds From Disaster" -- too melodramatic for my taste :)

@voretaq7 I agree, but I'm running low on aviation things to watch

watching the TWA 800 episode atm

@DannyBeckett ugh - DO NOT watch the ridiculous movie the conspiracy nutters made about TWA 800

I don't plan to

seriously, you'll wind up throwing your shoes through your TV to make the stupid stop

yeah sounds about right

"I know! The NTSB is secretly out to get us and cover everything up!" - go to bed, will you please!

@DannyBeckett If you're into disaster porn: aviationsafetymagazine.com

IDK if they offer UK subscriptions, and the content is VERY US-Centric, but a subscription and a read through their archives is TOTALLY worth it

that looks interesting

thanks :)

especially the accident probes - they basically pick apart one NTSB investigation/report every month (and do a whole bunch short summaries of prelims in what I like to call the "Stupid Pilot Tricks" section

also I added it to the feeds here, but uncontrolledairspace.com (one of the guys on that podcast is the EIC for Aviation Safety. It's not a "safety podcast" but they talk a lot about safety and operations/procedures)

thanks for the tips Mike :)

will definitely look at them both soon... just having "dinner" (12:45am, lol)

this is also very interesting @voretaq7 liveatc.net/forums/atcaviation-audio-clips

if you register, then click on each of the topics on that page, the "NEW" will disappear, and each day after that you'll see 2 or 3 new ATC recordings marked "NEW"

been busy today... 6 new

there's a lot of conspiracy theory speculation in this Seconds from Disaster episode too @voretaq7

Sailnger: "we are totally sure that there's been a cover up"

supposed radar data of a missile

...maybe I should've just watched a "normal" episode

actually this is pretty interesting - i.e. the explosive material found, but that was due to the police training bomb sniffer dogs on the plane

no way. it was the air conditioning unit heating the fuel up?

looks like it was

...I'm gonna stop talking to myself now

@voretaq7 Nice, that answer put you over 2k ;)

:-) Writing up one for the ATC tours bit too.

ah nice, looking forward to that one!

curious to know how it works in the UK as well - might look it up

Did you guys hear about the Challenger accident in Aspen?

today

@voretaq7 have you ever toured the NY Tracon? That's what I would like to do.

@BretCopeland no - I ALMOST got in on the last Operation Raincheck tour

(like it filled up 10 minutes before I saw the notice in my inbox. I was NOT a happy person)

You know where N90 is right? :-)

@voretaq7 It's like Westbury isn't it?

@BretCopeland mmhmm

you know that scene in Pushing Tin where they're standing in the parking lot looking at the pretty beach?

never seen it.

@lnafziger there is an ATC tape of it on Live ATC.net: liveatc.net/forums/atcaviation-audio-clips/…

The audio clips section is a daily click for me

@BretCopeland well in the movie the TRACON parking lot looks out over a nice beach

In reality the TRACON parking lot looks out on a waste-to-energy incinerator

"dramatic license"

Aspen weather at the time:

@Inafziger - do you receive these pings? For some reason your name doesn't pop up when I type @I

Landing runway 15, that's almost a direct tailwind.... :-(

The first letter is L, not I

(Louis)

I drive past that building every day on my way to/from work. One day I'm just gonna go buzz the gate and give them by best forlorn puppydog expression and see if they let me in out of pity :-P

ah, that'd be why... sorry! </dumb>

@voretaq7 I've read about people getting a tour, but they all seemed to know someone who worked there.

Not sure there's an easy way to get in otherwise.

did you listen to the ATC tape @lnafziger?

Sounds like we need to make some connections.

I see the messages but don't see the audio

listening to it myself now

I think you need to register

(just a standard forum registration)

here's where the audio shows (where my cursor is):

@voretaq7 did anyone ask you if the Piper which laded on the highway in the Bronx yesterday was yours?

I had multiple friends check in with me to make sure it wasn't me.

@BretCopeland nope, but it's the same model (PA28-180 I don't know if 1966 is the last year of the C or first of the D

@lnafziger There are quite a few different forums on that site, but LiveATC Discussion Forums -> Air Traffic Monitoring -> Aviation Audio Clips is the one to check. There are a few ATC recordings of crashes/near-misses/interesting discussions posted daily

@BretCopeland @voretaq7 The tapes for the Piper are available there too: liveatc.net/forums/atcaviation-audio-clips/…

@BretCopeland they do occasionally run Raincheck seminars at N90 (like maybe once a year)

@DannyBeckett: I just had to register. Listening to it now.

@DannyBeckett tapes you say?

::rummage:

::rummage dig kick pile::

tapes/recordings/MP3's/whatever

:p

@voretaq7 I might ask around Nassau Flyers and see if anyone knows anyone.

@DannyBeckett Republic Tower has a REALLY Bad Day

@lnafziger just finished listening... sad.. "what's with all the smoke at our 5 o'clock"... "it happened right in front of us"

for anyone else listening through a laptop, if you open these recordings with VLC Media Player instead, you can hold Ctrl + Up Arrow to get the volume to 200%

@voretaq7 listening now

At least the Republic one has a happy ending -- well as happy as you can given the circumstances.

@voretaq7 when was that?

@BretCopeland 2007

> The Cessna had wing and windshield damage, while the Saratoga lost 8 to 12 inches from a wing, rupturing a fuel tank

some info here: vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=22813

There's a delightful NTSB report too

Not good....

@BretCopeland Did you get to the end yet?

@voretaq7 yeah, just did.

I've flown in and out of Aspen a bunch... I'm surprised they even tried to land with those winds. :-(

still listening myself: 05:30

@BretCopeland that poor student :-)

just finished... do a lot of foreigners come to the US to learn?

I hear a lot of foreign student pilots on ATC

@DannyBeckett At Republic not so much, but in general yeah - it's way cheaper to do training here

yeah I thought as much

Yeah, especially down here in Florida

And Arizona, and California.. Where they can fly year round

I gotta say though, Republic is an interesting place to do your training - you've got student pilots, student controllers, you're under the NY Class B, Islip's Class C is right to the east of you, and your first experience with TRACON or Center is New York's controllers. You either get very good on the radio very quickly, or you curl up in a little ball and roll away :)

haha that sounds thrilling tbh. I've listened to a lot of JFK's ATC tapes on YouTube; a lot are "interesting" indeed

It surprises me that FRG isn't a class C, even though the layout would have to be odd for a charlie. It just seems like a consistent approach for VFR and IFR would help with sequencing.

@DannyBeckett I've been using radios since I was like 11 so it's never really been an issue for me, I just had to learn new phraseology. Some of the new students (especially the shy ones or the ones where English isn't their first language) though - I feel REALLY bad for them

Christ, the Piper tape is interesting

@BretCopeland we have consistent approaches, we just don't tell anyone about them anymore

you want my Google Earth file? :)

gets clearance to land and repeats over and over "I'll never make it... where do I touch down?!"

@voretaq7 I mean approach control. Not an arrival route.

@BretCopeland I think NY Approach is a sore subject with Republic Tower. Something something "dropped a jet on me inside of 3 miles" something something :)

trying to set up a charlie for republic would be fun though considering our "interesting" airspace geography

@voretaq7 exactly, but if there were a Charlie with a dedicated approach sector, you wouldn't have that problem.

Yes, it would be an odd layout, but I think it would be worth it.

Meh, they'd throw it on 118.0 along with Islip and Kennedy - what's one more airport for a... oh, oh dear, the controller just hanged himself with his headset cord... what's that make this week 5? 6?

At least Republic has the slaved radar from Islip. I can't imagine them trying to run that tower as a purely visual operation

Well, it'd only be worth it if they got a dedicated approach controller.

Yeah, but most of the aircraft are just squawking 1200

they should split Islip onto its own controller, then Islip and Republic could share

> "Mayday 09J, we're losing engines... Tower tower, 09J, we're losing engine power.... emergency, 09J...." ---- "09J roger would you like to land at La Guardia?" --- "can we make it?" --- "you're at 16, you can make a right-turn heading vectors [indistinguishable]" --- "which way? vector 12?.... where am I going?... I dunno if I can make it" --- "09J [indistinguishable]" --- "and where should I be?" --- "maintain [indistinguishable]" --- "and where should I land?" --- "cleared to land rwy 22"

I mean what does islip have, like 5 movements a day? :)

Islip and Republic sharing would make sense.

@BretCopeland aviation.stackexchange.com/users/334/fordson <- Go practice your "Destroy User" button pushing :-)

it's REMARKABLY SATISFYING :)

@BretCopeland Islip being the Class D and Republic being the Class C would make sense too, but oh god the disaster it would make with the NY Class B

@voretaq7 done

> "I, I... I don't see the... I don't see anything... which direction am I heading?" --- "you're currently on a 16deg right-turn" --- "I'm at like <1,000ft" --- "advise passing La Guardia" --- "I'll never make it, where do I touch down?" --- "La Guardia [indistinguishable] for descent" --- "I'll never make it, where do I touch down" --- "09J, I'm not sure where you can touch down if you're not gonna make it"

did anyone else listen to this?

the last time the FAA wanted to "reorganize" the airspace around here they got i-don't-remember-how-many comments, and I think the guy responsible had a nervous breakdown because they just stopped talking about it and left everything basically the way it was

@voretaq7 That sounds responsible.

lol the controller suggests the Hudson

@BretCopeland well to be fair the term "clusterfuck" is pretty generous for the airspace around here (I'm not sure there's a term severe enough for this mess) :)

@DannyBeckett Hey it's a low wing, if he's carrying standard fuel there's enough air in his tanks to float for a while :-)

5 miles in a PA-28 at 1000 feet? Yeah, that's a pipe dream buddy!

maybe I misheard it actually.. I can just make out "something river" when he asks where he could land

@DannyBeckett Harlem River - it's a little bit of water between the Hudson and the East River

ah yeah that'll be it

given his choices? I wouldda taken the Major Deegan too

the audio is terrible, can just about make it out

from the photos it looks like they collapsed the gear, wondering if that was from a (really) hard landing or just a Bronx pothole - both explanations are wholly plausible

@DannyBeckett whaddya want for AM radio man :-)

they definitely collapsed the gear

let me get you the video I watched...

cnn.com/2014/01/04/us/small-plane-new-york-highway/…

lol @ the pothole (they were working on the potholes at the time)

@DannyBeckett this is New York. They're ALWAYS working on potholes :)

I'd imagine it'd be from a hard landing though if they had no engine power

from all the photos I've seen though? Totally repairable airframe as long as NYPD/NYFD didn't do anything stupid to it

@DannyBeckett you can still make a decent dead-stick in a Cherokee (though maybe not dodging cars)

they were lucky there were roadworks going on - supposedly the workers saw the plane coming in and closed the road

and I've made some pretty awful landings - those gear will take a lot of shit :)

I'm gonna bet they clipped a curb or something & sheared the gear that way, it'll be interesting when the NTSB prelim comes out

yeah

oh wow in that top video you can see the gear... I've never seen cherokee gear sheared THAT way before

yeah exactly

that was definitely a "hard" landing to snap the oleo strut like that - dayum

maybe I take back what I said about "wholly repairable" - that much impact may have damaged the spars...

though wings are just a few bolts... :)

both gears are bent outwards - see 00:38

yeah

it was a Meta question

it was the frontrunner on Meta, Bret did the honors :)

got changed earlier today

@DannyBeckett Look, all I know is if this turns out to be "fuel exhaustion" I WILL cut a bitch

Fuel exhaustion is my personal pet peeve. How in the hell do you RUN OUT OF GAS?! I've never run out of gas in my car!

@PatoSáinz chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/13005962#13005962

@voretaq7 we'll soon see! nothing for January yet in the NTSB's prelims

I recall reading that the NYFD was "removing fuel" from the plane but IDK how accurate that is. (and if it is accurate it rules out "exhaustion" but not "starvation" from forgetting to switch tanks or a bunch of other possibilities)

just having a look at Uncontrolled Airspace... are there are any episodes in particular you remember being worth a listen?

it's also possible the NTSB won't investigate (though usually for stuff like this they do)

@DannyBeckett All the Oshkosh & Sun-n-Fun episodes are worth listening to, just for show flavor

thanks :)

@DannyBeckett uncontrolledairspace.com/wiki/doku.php?id=ucap212 (Senator Inhofe landing on a closed runway) stands out in my mind :)

Have you guys gotten your RTOP?

cheers I'll give that a go

> When I grow up, I wanna be a US senator... so you can land anywhere?

lmao!

@lnafziger hmm?

@voretaq7 Radio Telephone Operators Permit?

@DannyBeckett "It's just a little yellow X - it's still good!"

It's required for international flights

lmao

I haven't heard about this incident before

"when he departed, he took off from a taxiway" :S

@lnafziger I have a general RTO permit that predates my airman certificate :)

but you can get the restricted permit by knocking on the FCC's door and asking nicely, so there's really no reason anyone shouldn't have it :)

@voretaq7: Nice!

@voretaq7: Well, if you haven't gotten it, you don't know just how complicated they make it, lol.

@lnafziger its generally useless (legally I can disassemble and adjust com radios, but practically if a com radio fails it's going back to the manufacturer or getting replaced :P)

@lnafziger it's not that bad - you register for your FCC ID, then you request the license, I think there's a stupid fee for it, and then you're done :P

it used to be worse before the FCC made everything electronic

uh-huh

I got mine electronically and just finding the right website was fun. Not to mention setting up the multiple accounts....

should just be one account... but whaddya want, it's the US government :P

You have to setup a different one just in order to pay the fee

Here's the real question: do you have a station license for the aircraft :-)

I think Canada still requires that

A lot of places do.

I only care about Canadia and their crazy Canadian rules - 's the only "international" flying I'm ever likely to do :P

and really, Canada doesn't count! They're like the 52nd state!

You should come South. Go to the Bahamas/Carribean.

(51: Puerto Rico ; 52: Canada ; 53: Mexico)

Especially this time of year, lol

@lnafziger meh, Orlando is a 2-day trip in my little cherokee. Hopping my way down the keys is unlikely to happen any time soon :)

Oh hey while we're on the subject of aircraft incidents....

@voretaq7: The low in Orlando on Tuesday is going to be 29F... You might want to go further South, lol.

The high is only 47....

uncontrolledairspace.com/wiki/doku.php?id=HC001 /cc @DannyBeckett

@lnafziger Fuck that noise, that's today's weather in New York and I didn't have to go anywhere.... except to the airport to shovel out the plane.

> If I can track down his N-numbers, I'm putting him in my Flight Aware, because I don't wanna be in the airspace over Oklahoma at the same time he is

:D

(Things I miss about renting: Someone else to clear the snow on the ramp)

(Things I don't miss about renting: "Yeah, you're not flying today - the hangar door is frozen shut and the planes are all stuck inside")

(I gotta tease the desk crew about that one)

@voretaq7 that sounds interesting, cheers, that'll be my next one

@DannyBeckett that one's short, it's just the ditching story

and it's Amy Laboda who is just awesome to listen to.

thanks!

@lnafziger @voretaq7 I renamed training to flight-training like we talked about. Anyone feel like updating the wiki?

@BretCopeland (apropos of nothing) whenever they get around to doing whatever they're going to do with the NFI and Museum hangars are you going to take a day off to watch the ensuing hilarity? :)

@voretaq7 I don't really know anything about that other than it looks like a mess.

Plane crash kills son of Oklahoma Sen. Inhofe - 11 Nov 2013

@BretCopeland: Sure, I'll update it.

that's some serious fucking karma, if it exists :|

@DannyBeckett I don't think karma is the right word. That implies his son deserved to die in a plane crash.

not sure what word you'd use; still.. freaky

@BretCopeland The current plan (the last time I was talking to Airport Ops and the airport manager, about a year ago) was they're going to pick up the museum, roll it onto runway 19, and drop it roughly where the SheltAir fuel farm is. Then they're going to pick up NFI's hangar, roll it down runway 19, and drop it roughly on top of my tiedown.

And this is TOTALLY worth taking a day off to hang out and watch

Wow, I had no idea.

(and NONE OF THIS solves the problem that the southeast corner of Dave & Busters is still about 6 feet into the RPZ)

Let me know if you find out when it's happening.

@BretCopeland I keep watching NOTAMS but this is gonna be a long term thing, might not even be this year

@BretCopeland: Updated

it's part of the grand plan to have our runways somewhere in the same neighborhood of FAA safety standards, and to stick SheltAir on the south end of the field (in that wooded area between the runways)

I would definitely be interested.

(and supposedly shifting 1/19 north, but every time we talk about fixing that displaced threshold people scream and cry and carry on like we're talking about slicing their babies up with propellers and cooking them on jet exhaust :-/)

@lnafziger I don't see it updated yet. Not sure if there's a cache involved.

@BretCopeland this is what you get for missing staff meetings those boring-ass annual operator meetings :)

@voretaq7 Test message..

@aTTozk C+, good effort :-)

good copy @aTTozk :p

For a higher grade include photos of airplanes, kittens, or kittens piloting airplanes

lol!

did you see the one of the dog in the other room?

I'll repost here

@DannyBeckett I used a dog image in one of my answers

I think it was the "should I tell ATC I'm a student pilot?" one

(especially with the crappy radio quality from that Piper clip!)

lol that's a good one too

Difficult existential questions: Do I post a new question now, or wait until (UTC)tomorrow? :)

what do you mean?

(it's well past midnight UTC)

@DannyBeckett Well if I post a question now it counts toward today's numbers. If I post it (UTC)tomorrow it counts toward tomorrow's numbers :)

I hadn't realised there was distinction between the numbers? I thought it was just an average

it really doesn't make a difference in the A51 Questions/Day calculation but it may make the site's graph cleaner :P

ah ok, gotcha ;)

I'm actually really happy with our numbers so far - I was a little worried by the sign-up stats

;)

we all need to recruit

I might prod some of the aviation podcasts to see if we can get a mention

@PatoSáinz more to the point, where's my ♦ and $5,000? :p

@PatoSáinz you already have your ♦, and that was 5k in cache, fool!:)

@DannyBeckett See above. You'll have to share the cache :-)

@voretaq7 you should absolutely do that

lol

@PatoSáinz it's right there in your message :)

ahahaha

Trust me the diamonds are overrated. You're just a glorified janitor with bling (and the ability to one-shot spammers)

...and apparently hats are over since my avatar has reverted....

@PatoSáinz it's more suspension....hmmm, string I guess? :)

do licenses have photos on them yet?

@DannyBeckett FAA licenses? No.