TRPG General Chat

KorvinStarmast

6:00 PM

@NautArch I am gonna offer that I think that was part of the XY problem. Maybe I am over selling that.

@G.Moylan +10 no replacement for actually playing Amen.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast I think the question is unclear enough that we don't actually know what a good answer is.

at this point. We're all guessing to figure out how to answer.

KorvinStarmast

6:29 PM

still? OK, close it again?

Medix2

Is this the digging question? If so, we do have plenty of open questions asking "How can I do X?"

RevanantBacon

@Medix2 It is the digging question again

I don't see why a magical solution is a must. The asker already stated that time isn't really a huge constraint, they guessed at roughly a month or two of available time to get it done

Someone_Evil

We have some variations of that which works well, but where things land between restrainst, goals, priorities is non-trivial and I don't think they're very clear here

Medix2

Yeah I don't think it would be either, I'm moreso saying that either way, we do have really open questions that are, nonetheless, open

NautArch

@RevanantBacon I don't know if it's "Magical is a must", but they have a clear constraint on the use of mundane digging.

RevanantBacon

6:44 PM

Although, they also haven't stated why they need to expand the room in the first place (yes, they said something about a lab, but they didn't say why the lab needed to be as big as they want the room to be)

NautArch

^I think that's unnecessary. This question is really about the excavation.

RevanantBacon

Sure, but they why behind the excavation can usually be relevant. Like, if this whole thing is just for fluff, and is just so they can say "I have a lab of X size" then it will be looked at differently than "I need a lab of X size so I can do Y thing"

Like, if it's the former, then the how kind of becomes less important, because it's a fluff piece

Or if time is an actual constraint, then that might changes things

Upper_Case

Even still... labor, magical or mundane, is easily available in the setting which can accomplish this, and rough pricing guidance is given for both types in core rulebooks. What's less clear with a mundane approach is how quickly the work can be done

Medix2

There's also a lot of ways to get that much space that don't involve excavation at all; but those are probably more frame challenges, in a way

Upper_Case

But this seems like a pure fluff question. I don't know of any mechanics that would weigh on it, or consequences of one approach over another. The operative question is more around how the DM will structure the whole endeavour

RevanantBacon

6:50 PM

@Medix2 I was thinking about the Mansion spell

@Upper_Case That's basically what I was reading from it too

NautArch

@Upper_Case True, but if you have no money you're not buying any labor.

I probably just ask my player if they want to make building this a quote thing unquote, or if they just want it.

Someone_Evil

I'm not sure they actually have a limitation of not spending money though. "Right now, I'm broke, but I'm pretty sure that it'll change in the near future." I would assume their future money is assignable to this project

NautArch

I don't know. Maybe? But they need to give us their constraints. If that's one of the ones they gave us, then we should use it. Money isn't the constraint, you need to tell us that too.

Upper_Case

@NautArch That's fair. But I'm not sure it changes the situation much. With a rock hammer and the Mold Earth cantrip getting the space excavated is a foregone conclusion, though making that a safe excavation may be a different story

NautArch

Safety? Pshhh

Upper_Case

6:58 PM

If the DM is going to lean into it, labor could be the reward of a minor quest or something. "It costs [X]" is, at most, a timing constraint

RevanantBacon

@Upper_Case Mold Earth probably won't really help though

Upper_Case

@RevanantBacon Eh, depends on your approach. If the rock hammer is enough to loosen the stone (which would have to be the DM's call) then you can immediately excavate it. But you can also cause shaping to the stone that makes it easier to remove (like extending protrusions that are easier to break off through leverage). Fabricate would probably be better for this purpose, though, and should also be accessible

RevanantBacon

@Upper_Case It doesn't allow shaping the stone, it allows shapes to appear on the surface of the stone. I read this as "something that looks like it was drawn on" as opposed to "something that was engraved/embossed"

Also: Fabricate would be a pretty solid way to do this I think. Just Fabricate a bunch of the stone into bricks and cart them out. Would be the same as using Shape Stone except it'll hit a 10' cube per casting rather than a 5' cube.

And they're both level 4

Upper_Case

@RevanantBacon A perfectly fair interpretation, though not the only one (I've always allowed, and been allowed, bas reliefs and similar)

I presume the querent is after a specific approach to excavation that will persuade the DM that the task should be easy, quick, and inexpensive. That's often a backwards approach, since the DM has to weigh the time and resource constraints that are relevant for something that seems unlikely to mechanically impact the game

I, personally, am very likely to just let that kind of thing slide; there isn't enough detail in the game to do much beyond that (at least as I read this situation)

NautArch

7:14 PM

@G.Moylan STartech for the win!

G. Moylan

@NautArch Wooo!

Upper_Case

7:29 PM

@RevanantBacon Fabricate would be my preferred solution if I were doing the work myself. Not only does it excavate the area, but you can also make the spoil into stoneware goods that you could sell for an easy profit. Waterdeep is about to experience a booming fad in granite countertops!

G. Moylan

The Stonecutters' Guild hated that

2

RevanantBacon

@Upper_Case Forget the countertops, you can make granite sculptures and fountains, which would probably fetch quite a nice price

Depending on level of detail, of course

Upper_Case

@RevanantBacon Not if I were making them... I don't think I have the artistry. Even countertops might be a tough goal for me to meet

Maybe I could get a fad going though, like pet rocks. I'd say they're all animals from islands in the Trackless Sea. Prove to me that there aren't lumpy, misshapen animals there!

RevanantBacon

All you need for countertops is for it to be flat LMAO

Upper_Case

That's how much of a stonemason I'm not!

Cat of doom2

8:04 PM

@KorvinStarmast are you in here?

KorvinStarmast

8:34 PM

@Catofdoom2 I am now, was working a project and had reschedule an appointment.

Cat of doom2

@KorvinStarmast so you can't play?

KorvinStarmast

@Catofdoom2 i am in the room now

NautArch

8:49 PM

Did this need to be migrated? We have questions like this on the mainsite around publishing.

Someone_Evil

It's about the site's licencing and not really anything RPG though, isn't it?

NautArch

Yeah, i guess so. We've got questions about licensing other material, but not our own.

I guess when it's our own, it's meta.

Hot RPG Questions

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Q: When do individual ability checks become group ability checks?

In the section Working Together, the basic rules state: Sometimes two or more characters team up to attempt a task. The character who's leading the effort — or the one with the highest ability modifier — can make an ability check with advantage, reflecting the help provided by the other characte...

NautArch

TiL, I am not a lawyer.

The Oracle

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Q: If I posted a homebrew feature on this site and I plan to publish it, what credits do I need to give?

I have not found any information about this on the website, but if I missed something blatant, please tell me. I have posted numerous homebrew features on this website (like this Druid subclass: Is this "Circle of the Sun" Druid Circle balanced?), and I have used advice gotten from this site to b...

support copyright

Someone_Evil

9:03 PM

The question is about using material from answers recieved, is it not?

NautArch

oh, hmm

I guess that's an issue where it's not theirs anymore

It's not an answer, but a question that was asked and the community helped develop.

Yeah, I still don't know :P

4 mins ago, by NautArch

TiL, I am not a lawyer.

bobble

statistically, few people are lawyers

Someone_Evil

And we can't mark a question as a duplicate cross site. We'd usually make it an answer on our site which mainly pointed to the main source, with the key of the answer in it

Yeah, I have no idea what the copyright situation is around advice, I would have thought it doesn't really apply, but IANAL either

bobble

oh - here's a fun cross-site dupe event that was brought to my attention today. Someone asked a question on SF&F, got an answer there, then years later asked the same question on Lit (though they said the SF&F answer worked once they were pointed there)

NautArch

@Someone_Evil My non-lawyer hunch is that any content suggested, and then modified, by OP has to be attributed.

If you're on the up and up.

Someone_Evil

9:13 PM

I would too, but then I'm coming from academic training, not law

kviiri

@NautArch Depends. (not a lawyer either but relatively well-versed in copyright). Anything that's by the OP is theirs and doesn't need separate attribution, licensing something to SE does not in any way restrict their rights to use their own content (though it will restrict their right to tell SE to not use their content)

NautArch

@kviiri Sure, but if content has been modified/provided by another user and that was incorporated, I think that's an issue?

kviiri

@NautArch That depends – not everything committed to writing is under copyright. Works have to have a degree of novelty, so many of the smaller alterations would not incur copyright

This message I'm just writing would not be subject to copyright because it doesn't have anything in it that would establish it as a creative work.

Edits like fixed typos and improved formatting are, barring exceptional circumstances, not subject to copyright.

Added content might be, assuming the alterations are not somehow very trivial

KorvinStarmast

there are a bunch of posts about this on meta SE.

kviiri

Copyright also, as occasionally discussed here too, does not apply to ideas, only concrete works. That is, while the specific suggestion to change a mechanic might be under copyright, the idea it expresses is not. I'm totally free to write a seven book series about Larry Claywright who gets accepted into horrible in-group separated wizard school, as long as it is in my own words.

NautArch

9:23 PM

Dammit Jim, I'm a stackizen - not a lawyer!

Oh boy.

kviiri

Similarly, I don't think there's any copyright reason the OP would have to attribute the feedback they received... assuming they didn't copy elements of said feedback (eg. suggested wordings) verbatim

(ethics-wise, I would attribute if the feedback feels like it had a significant impact on getting the desired result)

Anyway, this is just my n cents on the topic. Feel free to use and quote but remember, I am not a lawyer either x)

@NautArch Hm, what am I missing, looking at that?

NautArch

"targeting"

G. Moylan

We need to summon some lawyer devils from the nine hells to discuss the topic, methinks

kviiri

Ah x)

G. Moylan

@NautArch greeeeeat

INB4 that awful podcast where JC talks about targeting again

Upper_Case

9:30 PM

We should probably try to avoid consulting with Glasya, though. Just given the subject matter

NautArch

I keep all my 5e books closed in an attempt to keep JC inside.

G. Moylan

@NautArch The only times I let him outside between games are when I need to consult the SAC

NautArch

@G.Moylan SAC? Never heard of it.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch they say JC will find you wherever you go, but if he'll come looking for you we don't know, in the meanwhile keep your profile low, NautArch you are a desperado

NautArch

:P

KorvinStarmast

9:32 PM

WIth apologies to Warren Zevon

G. Moylan

@NautArch Some wiseguy on a mountain talking about rules and stuff, or something

NautArch

@G.Moylan Wiseguy, eh?

Upper_Case

That's what SAC stands for: Sage Atop the Crag

NautArch

I thought it was Seldomly Applicable Content

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch (the original song is called Gorilla You're a Desperado from the album Bad Luck Streak in Dancing School

G. Moylan

9:34 PM

@NautArch Supposedly Accurate Clarifications

Upper_Case

That's what it used to be. Then it was Sometimes Always Correct, but that confused people so they changed it to the crag one. Which isn't really less confusing, but people don't expect sages to be too clear

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast How have i not heard this?!

Someone_Evil

TBF, the SAC is sometimes useful because it contains some of the stuff they forgot to include in the actual books

G. Moylan

@NautArch So, he'll roll to attack, see? That'll be a hit, see!? That's 19 slashing damage, and BAM you're gabbagool!

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch Not sure; I got "excitable boy" when it came out, but missed Bad Luck Streak until I borrowed it from my cousin and taped it. Still have the tape, though it's stretched a bit

@Someone_Evil or to clear up how some of the published stuff interacts...

G. Moylan

9:37 PM

I thought it existed to retcon all his awful, off-the-cuff twitter rulings

NautArch

I know, I know. The Divine Smite one just grinds my gears.

bobble

@Someone_Evil okay, so what does TBF stand for? :P

To Be Fair

@bobble Tiny Bespectacled Frogs

2

user15026

9:38 PM

@NautArch I am highly amused that I just saw "To Be Fair" in the sidebar and I could hear this.

NautArch

@Ash <takes a bow>

Glad to be of service!

G. Moylan

@NautArch Cha, you did it, brah! FERDA

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch the gwf one?

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Yeah.

grumble grumble

Akixkisu

10:20 PM

@Medix2 they are the same, except the digging question has better defined limitations.

BESW

based on the upvotes I'm getting, somebody's searching "evil" questions.

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Hot RPG Questions

10:36 PM

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Q: Glyphs of warding size

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dnd-5e spells

BESW

There's still a few days left to sign up for the second playtest packet of Tales from the Low Cantrefs by Wild Wood Games. A game filled with petty village politics, childhood superstitions, adults who just don't understand, strange magics, wild and ruined landscapes, monsters out of old folktales, and the terrible responsibility of growing up. Inspired by Sabriel & Chronicles of Prydain.

"Orun: Post-Apotheosis Afro-Centric Space Opera Review" by Jared Rascher for Gnome Stew.

bobble

@BESW what does it mean, exactly, to sign up for a playtest packet?

BESW

Are you familiar with the concept of playtesting?

bobble

Some not-quite-finished rules are used as the basis for a trial game, in order to test if they work as desired

BESW

Yeah.

So, a playtest packet is a bundle of files/resources that will let somebody test the game and give useful feedback without having the creator right there to guide the process.

If you give Wild Wood Games your email, they'll put you on the list of people who want to get the next playtest packet they make for that particular game.

I've been fantastizing about a Chronicles of Prydain TRPG for ages, so I'm excited.

Does that explain what you're asking, or have I missed something?

bobble

10:46 PM

Would the creators ask for or require feedback (general or specific) from the playtest groups?

BESW

Yes, there's not much point in having someone playtest without getting some kind of feedback from them.

But generally speaking they aren't going to be the Feedback Police about it. I've signed up for playtests that I just couldn't do because of local circumstances and nobody got mad at me.

bobble

thanks for tolerating my newbie questions :)

BESW

No problem at all! Everybody's new to something all the time, and helping people understand something is a great way to think about it from a new perspective.

Upcoming Kickstarter: Tide Breaker RPG: Cinematic Tabletop RPG system by Nick Butler. We're making Tide Breaker RPG, a cinematic tabletop RPG focused on collaborative worldbuilding and quick to pick up tactical fights.

(also, like, playtesting? Not something the vast majority of TRPG players have personal experience with.)

I suspect there are several people in this room whose first playtest was one of my games.

bobble

Are you going to be playtesting it, since you said you were excited?

BESW

11:01 PM

I've signed up but I don't know if I'll be able to get together a group. A lot will depend on what shape the game takes.

eg, if it needs more than three people, assumes physical interactions at the table, or expects sessions long than an hour or two, I'll probably be unable to meet those needs.

bobble

If you ran it here I might have time :) school permitting. It looks fun!

BESW

I'll keep that in mind, thanks!

I've always wanted Prydain to get more respect and attention. It had a much bigger impact on me as a kid than Those Other Epic Fantasy Novels From The Isles, in emotional investment, engaging worldbuilding, and moral content. And the Disney film is... fine, on its own, but it's just barely more than an in-name-only adaptation.

Ben

@AncientSwordRage it hepls me to wake up, but not much more haha'

Morning all

bobble

afternoon, upside-down man

BESW

Does that make me almost-perfectly-sideways man?

Ben

11:13 PM

Well, without a universal plane to determine who's up and who down, maybe we're all upside-the-right-way-around?

Unfortunately I will have to leave that philosophical excavation there. I've had about 3 hours sleep and the caffeine is yet to reach my brain

AncientSwordRage

@Ben maybe because it's the middle of the night right now 😜

@TheOracle dale m has a lot of rep on Law.SE

bobble

@BESW horizontal man?

BESW

11:31 PM

If I disappear for a while, it's 'cause one of our power plants caught fire yesterday and we may have to go into load-shedding.

bobble

that sounds very not-good

Ben

@BESW eek

On a better note however, my Corruption System may actually be getting a proper playtest?

BESW

Updated with layout by Diwata ng Manila: Microvania by Zargo Games. Tell a story and make a map in this hack of Microscope.

@Ben Yey!

@bobble It's been twenty-plus years since load shedding was common, and everybody's a lot more dependent on constantly electricity than we used to be, so yeah.

But I'll happily endure some discomfort and inconvenience if it means keeping the hospitals powered.

Ben

There's only so much you can do to generate power in "confined" area

BESW

It'd be nice to get tidal power working here.

Ben

11:39 PM

That would definitely be a boon

BESW

Our winds are only reliable for part of the year, fuel-burning requires shipping in fuel (we had months without full power when a typhoon set fire to our fuel reserves), and thermal gradients are less useful outside of temperate climates, but we're surrounded by the ocean.

Ben

Reminds me when I used to play modded minecraft

I had wind farms, solar farms, and hydro mills providing power for my machines. But since solar was the only one that was upgradeable, that's the one I went with

AncientSwordRage

@BESW that would be good...

Shalvenay

@BESW yeah, fuel on fuel is no fun (or equivalently, the rocket equation is a harsh mistress)

AncientSwordRage

@bobble I only recognise particle man, triangle man and universe man. Oh and person man.

@Ben cool!

Ben

11:55 PM

@AncientSwordRage @BESW am keen to see how it goes :)

On a separate note, how viable do you think it'd be to create a "vaati"-type lore channel for diablo?

Cos I have a lot of speculative theories about the timeline that might explain some of the more mysterious things in the lore

bobble

@AncientSwordRage how about ferret man?

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