TRPG General Chat

Shalvenay

01:00

hey there @linksassin, how're things going? still busy as?

linksassin

@Shalvenay Things are starting to calm down. I hope to be able to get to your thing today.

Shalvenay

@linksassin cool

BESW

01:40

Daniel Kwan started a twitter thread for people to "share the work of a designer you really respect."

Amr Ammourazz wrote a twitter thread for #TabletopChopShop "about intentionality in design."

"The Outer Whorls - Designer Commentary 01," a devlog entry by ehronlime.

Craig Campbell wants to know (twitter link) "the coolest thing about the indie RPG you designed in one sentence."

Melancholy Trip by ThatAceGal is a oneshot RPG game about being trans, superpowered teens on the run from their shitty superhero mentors. As it's inspired by sad and angsty trans fanfics, please read the content warnings before playing.

Adeptus

02:04

@Ash Interesting. My wife gets migraines & sometimes has a blue light in the corner of her vision when they are starting (visual artefacts are common with migraines apparently). It's progressed over the years to the point that blue LEDs can bring on a migraine. Also flashing lights (of any colour).

user15026

@Adeptus This is completely separate from my migraine stuff - it's not that it causes a migraine or headache, it's like literally nauseating stabbing pain.

Shalvenay

02:54

@Adeptus I briefly considered swapping the blue LED in my bench USB hub to a red LED, but decided I couldn't be arsed to have it there and just snipped it out instead

Hot RPG Questions

06:31

7

Q: What mechanic would be used for taking an opponent's weapon from its sheath on his belt in combat?

Here is the scenario. I am attacking a fighter with a crossbow. I run out of bolts and am unarmed as he charges at me with a spear. My opponent has a short sword on his belt. He misses with his initial spear attack and it's my turn. I want to take his sword from its sheath and if possible atta...

Thomas Markov

12:03

<ITAG>, everyone!

BESW

[wave]

AncientSwordRage

\oo//

NautArch

12:22

howdy howdy

weird, i just got 6 (andcounting?) upvotes to different answers.

Someone_Evil

Ah, it's you this time. Are they all accepted and (now) on a score of 10?

NautArch

all but one!

BESW

Speak the Sky has dropped the price of Twilight Song as an experiment. It's a pastoral sci-fi map-and-story game where you play an immortal narrator living in a time of quiet wonder and strange transformation as the world becomes something new.

Someone_Evil

Yeah, that matches what happened to me and @Medix2.

NautArch

@Someone_Evil is this a thing?

Someone_Evil

12:33

Looking at the recent badgers it might be happening to @Rubiksmoose too

BESW

Every now and then somebody goes around using their upvotes to nudge people over into getting deserved-but-not-quite-achieved badgers.

Hmmm. Between the TTRPG Book Club talking about the art of gapping and closure games, and that Twitter thing for "one interesting thing about your indie game," I've been thinking about how Goblin Court has a "hidden" play option that to the best of my knowledge no one has yet actually played.

Someone_Evil

Yeah, it's probably not something to worry about, but it's a bit freaky to have a day where you earned 60 rep and 10 badgers

NautArch

also feels like one of those things that theuser will leave the site and that rep will disappear :P

Someone_Evil

You'd keep the badgers though

Carcer

badger, badger, badger, badger

NautArch

12:44

badgers? I don't need no stinking badgers!

BESW

12:56

@Carcer mushroom! mushroom!

(I see you, fellow 2003 Internet Person.)

Medix2

@Someone_Evil I was debating running statistics on the likelihood of it being chance but the timing means it's almost certainly not, suppose it's just somebody going "and you get a badge and you get a badge..."

Carcer

@BESW (it is still bizarre to me when people don't immediately recognise that meme)

Medix2

Also greetings fellow humans!

Huh, apparently not all edits ping you for followed posts

BESW

@Carcer To quote a fashy royalist who didn't know how to talk to women, "I grow old, I grow old."

Carcer

heh. I feel old on the regular

Someone_Evil

13:03

@Medix2 Edits which are too small don't notify the author (thus not followers either)

AncientSwordRage

@BESW ah, it's a snake

Carcer

advanced rolling technique for cat owners: place die on a raised surface, and wait

3

BESW

[takes notes]

Thomas Markov

And for dog/toddler owners: place in food bowl, and wait.

Medix2

@Someone_Evil Yeah I didn't know edits were allowed to be too small, for some reason I thought there was a five-character minimum

Carcer

13:06

hah!

I was about to make that next joke for dogs

I'm sure there was an edit minimum at some point but I've seen someone make a single character edit to fix a typo in one of my answers recently

Thomas Markov

I had to include toddlers. My daughter ate an entire crayon yesterday.

Medix2

@Carcer I will test his with my d3 and d120 and all others XD

Thomas Markov

6 little blue teeth grinning back at me.

Carcer

oh dear

nontoxic crayons, hopefully

Thomas Markov

of course lol

didnt tell my wife, so she'll get a blue surprise sometime this morning while im at work.

KorvinStarmast

13:08

Trudging through a few of Lovecraft's stories, I had an epihpany (supported by a thought I had when I finished about three dozen non Sherlock Holmes AC Doyle stories) ... that bloated prose style (downright painful for me to read) strikes me as the kind of writing that informed Gygax's ponderous prose style in the AD&D books.

Someone_Evil

22

A: No notification was received for an edit to a post

In order to reduce noise sent to users, we only notify when "substantive" changes are happening on their posts. There are a few rules in how "substantive" is defined, but typically one of the following should be enough to trigger a message: edit to a question title the edit in the post body sh...

KorvinStarmast

But then I remember a point that IIRC L Ron Hubbard once made: if you are being paid by the word, you need to write a lot of words ...

AncientSwordRage

I really enjoy bloated prose, at least in a certain style

Medix2

@Someone_Evil Yup found that as well, thanks!

KorvinStarmast

And then I had a thought related to a Great Old One warlock: what if what the nameless ones had, and where they lived, were a version of dark matter and dark energy that sometimes crosses the boundaries to our usually experienced matter and energy ... which made me realize that I don't understand dark matter very well so I need to read up on it.

Medix2

13:13

I just kinda enjoy all writing... Never really felt that something was wrong just meant it might take longer. Some of this is probably because I cannot imagine books as a I read them so description just kinda falls flat on me

KorvinStarmast

Good description doesn't have to be long winded; well, that's my taste/take on it.

AncientSwordRage

@Medix2 Anaphantasia?

@KorvinStarmast No but it can become part of the description

Medix2

@KorvinStarmast Dark Matter (hot and cold), Anti Matter, Dark Energy... A few things we don't know a lot about

KorvinStarmast

(Medix, are you a linguist, or work on constructed languages?)

I seem to recall some points you made in that direction ...

Medix2

@AncientSwordRage Not really since I can picture a beach (though it has to be a beach I've actually seen which I can then modify) but with books there's just kinda nothing there. I just gain information

@KorvinStarmast I majored in linguistics and did some undergraduate research, though I'm not going into the field

KorvinStarmast

13:17

@AncientSwordRage Robin Hobb does good description, and while she can get long winded, I find her descriptive style very easy to digest.

@Medix2 ah, got it, thanks.

Medix2

@KorvinStarmast It's unsurprising that my favorite books are things like Hopscotch, If on a Winter's Night a Traveler, and We Need to Talk About Kevin

KorvinStarmast

Patrician McKilip has a more economical style, I think, and yet I find that she paints a picture beautifully

AncientSwordRage

@KorvinStarmast My go too purple prose is early Koontz

Thomas Markov

i want to float a question to you guys here before i make apost

tell me if its too crazy

or even worth asking

Can you cast rope trick inside of rope trick?

Medix2

I was gonna say "float away" which sounds weird but I can't think of anything else so float away

Thomas Markov

13:21

rope trick

Medix2

Why would you?

Someone_Evil

Alice going up the rope tricks

Medix2

That also definitely gets into weirdness of "is the second extradimensional space inside the first?" as well as "What can you see from inside the second space?" Hmmm

BESW

I had a GM once who decided that extradimensional spaces described with indefinite articles were actually all cells in an infinite honeycomb of pockets that all indefinite extradimensional spaces led to.

Thomas Markov

(1) Cast first rope trick
(2) Bait BBEG into first rope trick room
(3) Cast second rope trick
(4) Bait BBEG into second rope trick room
(5) Spam paralyzing spells and abilities till BBEG is paralyzed

Medix2

13:25

You'd need two ropes and the first would fall to the ground when the first spell ended, but who would suspect a random rope?

Thomas Markov

(6) Drop out of both rooms

(7) dispel the first rope trick.

Where is the BBEG?

Medix2

Either in the second rope trick or on the floor outside

Thomas Markov

If the first, where does he go when it ends?

Medix2

That seems similar to banishing them

NautArch

I'd say you can't create the second extra dimensional space "Attacks and spells can't cross through the entrance into or out of the extradimensional space"

Medix2

13:27

Make a rope trick, get somebody to enter, banish them, end the rope trick before they return

BESW

Intradimensional space?

Medix2

@NautArch Would the second casting be going through the entrance?

NautArch

@Medix2 Ah, that's a good point.

i was reading that as the space itself, but that's wrong. It's just the entrance.

BESW

Once had a botched plane-shifting spell result in the party winding up 2/3 of the way between two planes, and then somebody tried to put something from one of those planes into their 2/3-shifted bag of holding, then shifted fully into a third plane before pulling the thing out of the bag.

Thomas Markov

So is this good enough for its own post?

yall seem engaged enough :p

NautArch

13:29

definitely

Medix2

It's certainly confusing XD

NautArch

i mean, i'm someone that generally prefers actual problems, but there are a lot (some may say majority) who like the theoretical ones.

Medix2

I swear we have questions on banishing from extradimensional spaces which feels related to me

Thomas Markov

@Medix2 ill do some digging first

BESW

All this is one reason I was so happy to move into systems where the answer was always "whatever's the best thing for the table at the moment."

NautArch

13:31

Yeah, i'm realizing that the 'problem' with 5e is that the rules are semi-codified. It makes hard for it to just be "let's come up with something cool!" when there are rules that kinda/sorta apply. The vast majority of questions are here on that edge, and a huge amount of general table play is on that edge.

Thomas Markov

I might wait till this evening to post it...i nearly hit daily rep cap while I was asleep :p

NautArch

Which is also why I think we have so many questions on 5e.

BESW

@NautArch And 4e, and 3.5e, and Pathfinder, and 13th Age, and... that "rules as half-baked laws of physics" approach to game-making is Deeply Ingrained and Rather Fraught.

One of the great things about many of the games I've played recently is that the rules are clearly story rules, not world rules.

So even when they're kinda wonky, you know where you stand with them.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW Blind Eternities

@ThomasMarkov please share when you find them

BESW

@AncientSwordRage Dunno what that is.

AncientSwordRage

13:39

@BESW I don't know how to figure that out all the time, but I can reason with rules, even if semi-applied

@BESW it's the MTG term for spaces between spaces

BESW

@AncientSwordRage Well, that's what rules are for! But they don't have to be physics-based.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW where its Elder Beings equivalent are from

@BESW but it can be a good jumping off point

BESW

A game can tell me what theme the outcome should touch, whether there's a triumph or crisis, which factions are involved, if someone has to give up something important, if something important is gained...

Physics engines don't care about whether stuff's important or triumphant or revelatory or any of those things that make stories actually interesting.

Medix2

@AncientSwordRage I at least found nothing. Similar questions but nothing about the place you're supposed to end up no longer existing

BESW

@Medix2 I think in 3.5 the default was that either the spell would fail and you wouldn't move at all, or you'd get shunted to the astral plane. But don't quote me, it's been nearly ten years.

Thomas Markov

13:44

BESW

(When in doubt, 3.x's answer to planar shenanigans was fizzle, astral plane, or random plane.)

Thomas Markov

Related: Can I escape from a bag of holding with Banishment?

BESW

I had a player in 3.5 who banished his character straight out of the game that way.

Thomas Markov

@Medix2 Ill artiuclate the question that way and use double rope trick and banishment rope trick as examples.

Ive got another wild question

Medix2

If it's about Wild Shape or Wild Magic Surges....

Thomas Markov

13:49

Its not

its about a pegasus holding a sword

Could a pegasus wield a sword (like with its mouth) if it was proficient with swords?

GcL

No.

NautArch

@BESW 13th age so far seems a bit more on the path away from that. A stepping stone, if you will.

Medix2

That's just up to the GM I believe explicitly as well

Thomas Markov

Is there any simple or martial melee weapon a pegasus could conceivably wield?

Medix2

I'm fairly certain that is explicitly left to the GM

GcL

13:51

Unlikely. They require hands or gripping appendages.

Harness with a lance attached perhaps?

Carcer

"gauntlets", aka horseshoes

Medix2

Also depends how fantastical your setting is. Can you throw a dart with your mouth, well, I'm not a Pegasus so I don't know

GcL

@Carcer Good one.

Medix2

Oh yeah there is a horseshoe item

Thomas Markov

I ask because some day I will be a 14th level Bard with Tenser's Transformation and Find Greater Steed.

GcL

13:52

You want something above and beyond a magical flying horse?

A pegasus just isn't good enough? You need one that can wield a sword?

I like this bard.

Raising the bar-d

Thomas Markov

He would have proficiency if I cast tenser's while riding him...:P

GcL

You can't cast tensor's transformation on the steed.

Thomas Markov

Are you sure?

Medix2

Oh Tenser's no advantage on unarmed strikes :(

Thomas Markov

Range of self

GcL

13:54

@ThomasMarkov Yes.

Thomas Markov

"you can make any spell you cast that targets only you also target the mount."

GcL

"You endow yourself with endurance and martial prowess fueled by magic"

Even with the targeting mucking, that statement is clearly about the caster.

Medix2

@GcL So "you" would refer to the caster in one time and the horse in the other

@GcL Is there any spell that targets only yourself that doesn't have that logic mean it can't apply to the mount?

GcL

Good point.

Thomas Markov

Theres the question, Ill post. "Does the mount from FGS benefit from Tenser's"

Unless youre conceding @GcL

Medix2

13:56

@ThomasMarkov I'll grab related questions including "what's a target"

Thomas Markov

@Medix2 oh god not this again

i take it back, i cant go through this again

Medix2

We've got the weird questions of "aura of vitality + steed" and "wish + steed" and both talk about what counts as a target

Someone_Evil

@Medix2 I was about to link to those two

GcL

@Medix2 Doesn't appear to be. They all appear to use the term "you".

Thomas Markov

eh, its a worthwhile question, ill post it if yall agree.

GcL

13:58

So you give a creature proficiency in an weapon it has no ability to use.

Thomas Markov

unless you think its dupe enough of one of those others

Someone_Evil

I will anyway: aura of vitality, and wish

Thomas Markov

@Someone_Evil These questions - is asking about Tenser's a dupe of either of these?

in your estimation

Medix2

We also have one on find familiar and, surprising me, tiny hut

Someone_Evil

Ugh... I remember the find familiar one

Medix2

14:03

@Someone_Evil Yup, same; it was why I asked and answered this question

But also there is this question where the answer suggests doing exactly what you're asking. Having a steed so you can use tenser's transformation @ThomasMarkov

Thomas Markov

Fair, I'll cite @NautArch when I ask if I can strap a glaive to my rhinoceros's face.

Though that is a question assuming an answer to my question in order to answer a different question.

k what if you cast clone on the steed.

NautArch

3

Q: How long would it take for me to train my animal companion to use a shortsword?

I am using the UA Revised Ranger in one of our D&D games. I am currently 2nd level and have had my Ranger animal companion from the start instead of summoning him at 3rd level (the wolf doesn't gain the conclave features until 3rd level, as ruled by my DM). He is a normal wolf. I am training him...

dnd-5e weapons homebrew animal-companions training

Thomas Markov

(this spell is just ripe for shenanigans, isnt it)

Medix2

FWIW the DMG does state: "A weapon must be held in hand."

@ThomasMarkov I'm still upset it doesn't boost unarmed strikes but I have a whole list of "types of attacks" and why there are too many so...

Thomas Markov

counter example: A monk's feet.

Medix2

14:09

@ThomasMarkov Huh? What Monk can do that?

Thomas Markov

kick? most of them probably

:p

Medix2

@ThomasMarkov Kicks are not weapons

Thomas Markov

Are they not considered monk weapons?

i may be misremembering

Medix2

@ThomasMarkov Are you a small race then?

Someone_Evil

I think there might be room for a question specifically about a self-spells affected/extended with FGS. The current ones seem to have other concerns, say action economy or whatever wish is

Medix2

14:11

@ThomasMarkov Nah they're actually deliberately separate for things like Kensei and whatnot and sentences like "You can roll a d4 in place of the normal damage of your unarmed strike or monk weapon."

Yuuki

Does it specify that unarmed strikes must be made with your hands/fists?

Thomas Markov

@Medix2 youre right

Medix2

@Someone_Evil "or whatever wish is" Never a more accurate statement

@Yuuki Or head I believe

@Yuuki "You can use an unarmed strike: a punch, kick, head-butt, or similar forceful blow (none of which count as weapons)"

Thomas Markov

@Someone_Evil maybe a community answer to the question "what range self or touch spell dont work with FGS?"

Medix2

@ThomasMarkov I think that gets into a problem of having people have to justify 50 different answers at once

Thomas Markov

14:13

Yeah. thought of that right after i said it

Medix2

We've also got this one: "Do spells with a range of “Self” target the caster?", so it's... complicated. Maybe self-area spells don't target the caster??

LizWeir

I actually think the best answer to this is case-by-case GM/group judgement by whether doubling up the spell makes sense, but I recognise that's not how a lot of people play.

Bardic Wizard

Why, oh why, is spell targeting so complicated??!???!????!?????

Medix2

@LizWeir Agreed, I gave up on defining targets in fifth edition XD

LizWeir

it's a bit of a weird position for me here, because I feel like my actual advice doesn't necessarily fit into how the questions are framed

Medix2

14:18

@BardicWizard Natural Language, the lack of keywords, and people wanting to follow the actual rules and not what Crawford would suggest be done

KorvinStarmast

@LizWeir yep., I had an earlier question on find steed and paladin smite spells that had three cases, each of the sensible.

LizWeir

though I did get away with that one about how there's a clear RAW interpretation that I'd often ignore for the Enemies Abound/War Caster interaction ;-)

AncientSwordRage

@BardicWizard We need a range, target and area of effect, but that got dropped in an earlier edition

Medix2

Targets and the various types of attacks are two things where I scream "you could've done much better"

Someone_Evil

@Medix2 Pretty sure the notion of make a ruling as logical/fitting the table/story is actually codified in the game, but probably in a bit no-one reads

KorvinStarmast

14:20

@LizWeir this one

Medix2

@Someone_Evil But that's not a "satisfying" answer :( (it is, but many will say it isn't)

Thomas Markov

@Someone_Evil Id like to see a poll of players who have never DM'd - how many have read the DMG?

NautArch

@Someone_Evil It's in there, but it gets the problem of "well, in most cases, I will rule as X, but for story reasons, let's go with Y" Which makes it unclear the next time if it will be X or Y.

And that lack of clarity in turn makes it hard for players to make decisions based on expected response.

LizWeir

yeah, I do think clarity in the ruling process is important - that expected response thing is hugely important for player experience

and when it comes down to it, player experience is what I care about, far more than adherence to rules or narrative

4

Thomas Markov

the inconsistency of 5e on some of these things throws a monkey wrench in the attitude I espouse in this answer

"The rules are the primary tool a player has for aligning their expectations with realistic outcomes." -and some times its like pulling rivets with a screw driver.

Medix2

14:24

@ThomasMarkov Nah, it just means not all the rules do that as well as they could/should

Thomas Markov

got another one about FGS

if the spell cast requires concentration, are you concentrating on the spell for both you and your mount, or does the mount concentrate for itself

wait nvm i figured it out

Bardic Wizard

Rereading Tenser’s Transformation, the second sentence says “Until the spell ends, you can’t cast spells...” (XGtE 168). Does the spell take effect a) after the action used to cast, or b) during the action in which case it would stop you from casting it?

@ThomasMarkov and the answer?

Medix2

@BardicWizard Definitely not during or it just wouldn't work in the first place

Someone_Evil

@ThomasMarkov That we do have a question on

Thomas Markov

@BardicWizard I have yet another case I could add to your flanking question lol

Medix2

14:30

@BardicWizard But also spell effects don't start until you finish casting the spell (which is why counterspell works in the first place) but also yeah... cast/cast/casted is definitely not a helpful thing

Bardic Wizard

Oy vey, this is complicated

@ThomasMarkov add it then!

Thomas Markov

@BardicWizard just one more diagram explaining that if the dragon flies up, you actually have to walk under it to get flanking

Bardic Wizard

@ThomasMarkov got it

Thomas Markov

@BardicWizard or alternatively, cast mold earth to dig a hole under the dragon and jump in.

Bardic Wizard

@ThomasMarkov I don’t know how earth-while that’d be, but as a DM I’d mine it for all I could... sorry I couldn’t help it

Thomas Markov

14:36

do spell effects persist on a creature that was polymorphed at time of casting who then is unpolymorphed?

Medix2

@ThomasMarkov We definitely have a question on that... uh... somewhere(?)

Thomas Markov

i need it

cuz i might have an answer to the find familiar question :))))

Medix2

Wait, why would polymorph just end spells?

Thomas Markov

Ill throw it out there anyway

nvm ring of spell storing is lame.

Bardic Wizard

@Medix2 I think it just prevents you from casting spells, not being affected by them

Medix2

14:38

@ThomasMarkov Not sure if these are what you'd want but we have a question on polymorphing into an invalid target and one on invalid targets in general

Thomas Markov

i was gonna say, polymorph your familiar to a humanoid, let him attune to ring of spell storing with tensers, cast tensers, then unpolymorph.

but the ring only goes to 5th level

Medix2

@ThomasMarkov I don't think they'd have to be polymorphed at all?

Thomas Markov

can the familiar attune to a ring?

I guess if he has proper anatomy.

Medix2

"Can an animal attune to a magic item?" and more specifically "Can a familiar attune and wear or use a magic item?"

Someone_Evil

25

Q: Can a familiar attune and wear or use a magic item?

Is it possible for a familiar to attune to and then wear or wield a magic item?

dnd-5e magic-items familiars attunement

The Oracle

14:45

0

Q: Why shouldn't I edit a question that has been closed?

I made some edits to tidy up a closed question, the sorts of edits that are commonplace around on RPG.SE, such as spelling mistakes, formatting, retagging, etc. However, I was told that I should not edit closed questions unless the edit is related to the reason it was closed (i.e. editing in info...

discussion closed-questions editing review

LizWeir

maaaan "does Tenser's Transformation prevent you casting itself" is reminding me of my least favourite argument I've ever seen apparently put forward sincerely, which was "the capstone of Dark Messiah Style in Exalted 2nd Edition isn't actually broken because the Instantaneous duration means that instead of being horribly OP, it just does absolutely nothing"

Bardic Wizard

@LizWeir sorry, I’m a literalist and a rule lawyer (it’s a survival skill in my d&d club)

Someone_Evil

It's not broken if you squint hard enough that the rules don't make sense?

Thomas Markov

@LizWeir reminds me of this question of mine.

Bardic Wizard

It’s official: D&D5E is really, really broken

Thomas Markov

14:51

i figured out how to get tenser's onto your familiar.

Bardic Wizard

How?

Someone_Evil

Ehh... I think a lot of this comes from looking too closely at words

Thomas Markov

Give it the ability to cast wish

Rubiksmoose

@BardicWizard I guess it depends on what you mean by "broken" and what you are comparing it to. I'm definitely not the biggest fan, but I'd rather play it than Pathfinder which is explicitly broken is a lot of ways. At least 5e is broken (rules-wise) in many ways that you have to look closely to find.

LizWeir

yeah, recognise how useful developing that kind of skill if your context tends to treat games that way - the Exalted thing I mentioned was very much a symptom of the wider culture of the White Wolf forum

Rubiksmoose

14:54

At it's core though, 5e is, IMO, a bad compromise between explicit rules and "just wing it" so that might be a broken premise. But if you mean broken power-wise, it's probably not so much.

LizWeir

it's just I've realised I have a much happier time if I treat signs that people are taking that kind of approach as a signal that the way the games are being played here are incompatible with the way I have fun, and I should look elsewhere

Rubiksmoose

^

Though I've definitely been that guy.

Bardic Wizard

@Rubiksmoose that’s fair. I’m probably a little biased because my groups usually boldly go into the parts of the premise that d&d doesn’t cover much.

LizWeir

I'm very good at rules-lawyering but I've realised that for me the winning move is not to play. ;-)

Rubiksmoose

@LizWeir hah! Same, more or less.

LizWeir

14:55

and, hm, may well be less good at rules-lawyering now that I've got "that's absurd so let's take another read" integrated quite deeply into my decision-making ;-)

Rubiksmoose

Or more, I'm just too tired to get together and argue about things like rules anymore. I just want to have fun.

That probably means I'm old :P

Bardic Wizard

^^ I like arguing about rules but I realize many people don’t. So I argue online instead.

Medix2

@Someone_Evil +1

GcL

I was just about to say, arguing about rules is fun for some people

Medix2

@ThomasMarkov I was writing up the same thing, darn XD

Rubiksmoose

14:57

@GcL oh for sure, and if that's your group's cup of tea, go for it!

I certainly used to enjoy it.

GcL

It's not, but if you don't reign in the edge case people, they'll walk all over the other classes.

Someone_Evil

@GcL I mean, we have a stack full of it

GcL

F'ing kung-fu panda druid/monk... never again!

Medix2

@LizWeir zugzwang

Thomas Markov

Me and my DM are both pretty new to dnd, and hes very much a "the rules are guidelines, im here for the story" and im more like "the rules are the law of the universe", so we talk a lot out of game about how to balance our two approaches.

Rubiksmoose

14:58

@BardicWizard Well you're in the right place for that! lol

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@LizWeir The traditions of Exalted Rules-Lawyery have a property that to this day I'm not sure how to describe concisely. The only word I've seen used for it has unflattering religious connotations, so it would be nice to have a more neutral word for it. The property being: rules-lawyering in favour of the same section of a text being read one way in one situation, and a very different way in a different situation.

GcL

@ThomasMarkov There are better games for stories than D&D.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

(It's been a while since I participated in those discussions so it's hard to recall all the details and examples, but the general characterisation is what stuck in my memory.)

GcL

I think the rules of D&D are part of the enjoyment. Otherwise you'd play something with fewer rules.

LizWeir

yeah, I've blessedly forgotten most of those details

Medix2

15:00

@GcL 100% If you wanted to play a 1-page game, you would.

GcL

Honey Heist was like 3 pages!

LizWeir

I think that undersells the impact of D&D's position as Dominant Industry Standard

Rubiksmoose

@Medix2 Assuming you knew such things existed

Which a lot of people don't

@GcL You gotta have some room for the funny hat table though!

GcL

If you like more rules and more esoteric stuff about wizards than D&D, I suggest Ars Magica.... you only need an associates degree in medieval history.

4

@Rubiksmoose The hat modifiers are key. Bear dressed up as a cosplay bear wearing a cowboy hat.

Wouldn't have sold it without the cowboy hat.

Rubiksmoose

@GcL Oh that's brilliant. I'm totally using that the next time I play HH. (bear dressed up as a cosplay bear)

LizWeir

15:04

@GcL gotta love those tables that tell you the bonuses for every imaginable kind of wood or gemstone to different kinds of magic <3

GcL

@Rubiksmoose You have a clever 8 year old to thank for that plan.

Rubiksmoose

@GcL How'd the game go BTW?

Thomas Markov

Id like to see DND 5.5e be a hallmark card with the definition of "target" on the inside.

4

Rubiksmoose

hahahaha

Bardic Wizard

^^^ that’s actually something some people I know would find hilarious

GcL

15:06

@LizWeir Then you've got to look up ... wtf is red coral and why is it so expensive... how was this even obtained in the Mediterranean circa 1225?! Rabbit holes abound.

Medix2

@ThomasMarkov Toss in removing/clarifying the 12 types of attacks please XD

GcL

@Rubiksmoose Pretty well. Bears pretending to be people are pretty entertaining.

Thomas Markov

If there were a 9th level spell called Find Greatest Steed, what steeds would it have? So far Ive got Unicorn. Gonna do a homebrew review question.

GcL

People playing at being bears pretending to be people.

Rubiksmoose

@ThomasMarkov I thought unicorn was already a standard option for greater steed?

GcL

15:08

@ThomasMarkov Likely a motorcycle-helicopter-boat-rocket named "iron horse"... the less evil brother of "bad horse"

Thomas Markov

Noooooo that would be totally btoken

GcL

Who still can't wield a sword /S

Thomas Markov

If unicorn were on that list you would never not pick it, and Bard's would never not take FGS.

Medix2

@ThomasMarkov You may find this helpful and also looking at all the summoning/conjuring spells since they mostly have a formula

Thomas Markov

@GcL Dont need a sword when you have a rapier on your face.

GcL

15:09

@ThomasMarkov Like those cats that have two of them?

Thomas Markov

@Rubiksmoose FGS has CR 2 mounts, Unicorn is CR 5 with legendary actions.

GcL

Maybe you get a monocorn? it's a CR2 mount like a unicorn, but definitely less legendary. Who has even heard of a monocorn?!

Thomas Markov

CR 3 Nightmare would be a good candidate

LizWeir

Greatest Steed should let you ride Modron Primus

GcL

2020 is already a CR15 nightmare.

Bardic Wizard

15:12

^^^ this.

LizWeir

this is extremely funny, but only if you follow the somewhat esoteric chain of thought I just took going Unicorn -> Unicron -> Primus ;-)

Medix2

@LizWeir I followed it!

Rubiksmoose

@GcL ♫ bad horse, bad horse, bad horse, he's bad ♫

@GcL What did they end up stealing?

Medix2

@Rubiksmoose I guess I can add "A moose scolding a horse" to the list of things I never thought I'd imagine

Rubiksmoose

hahahaha

Medix2

15:15

But also great reference!

LizWeir

@Medix2 I've left enough people going "whaaaaa?" when I make that sort of joke that I'm into the habit of sharing

you'll note that I haven't stopped making the jokes ;-P

GcL

@Rubiksmoose Gold.... in the shape of a honey comb or jar, it wasn't exactly clear and there was a lot of excited rapid chatter about it at the time. Anyway, it got chalked up to confusion about the term "golden honey" which is totally understandable when you're a bear.

Thomas Markov

@GcL * CR 19

GcL

@ThomasMarkov I'm leaving open the possible of even higher failed saves against stupidity later this year, so it remains to be seen.

Rubiksmoose

@GcL brilliant and very very bear-like

LizWeir

15:18

oh WOW ok so I looked up CR5 monsters for Greatest Steed and triceratops???

SOLD

Elementals, Bulettes and Giant Crocodiles on the list too

GcL

@LizWeir There might be Eberron dinosaurs from the Talenta Plains that would work. Some were designed as mounts in the original campaign setting.

Hot RPG Questions

4

Q: What is the impact of banishment on CR?

Disclaimer: I know that monster balance is never exact and I don't expect it to be, I'm looking for rough guidelines like they are given in the DMG for many traits. I like to flavor up my monsters with spells. One spell that seems particularly interesting is banishment. Monsters with that spell ...

dnd-5e spells cr-calculation monster-design

Xirema

15:36

@GcL I continue to not know how to write queries for the SE database. =P

Someone_Evil

@ThomasMarkov Still Paladin only presumably, so it can only be taken by Bards?

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@Xirema Oh well. It took 720 unprotections to teach a dozen rolestackers how to make database requests. Not a great efficiency, but at least it's above the implied negative efficiency!

Xirema

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica O_O

Someone_Evil

@Xirema I think you have some metas to read...

Thomas Markov

@Someone_Evil Im going to have to write it as a paladin class feature, methinks.

Xirema

15:46

At the risk of asking questions that have already been discussed, what motivated all those posts getting unprotected?

Thomas Markov

there are several metas discussing that

Someone_Evil

@Xirema Have you read this?

Thomas Markov

unless they didnt answer exactly what youre asking

Someone_Evil

@ThomasMarkov Hmm... that might be a very interesting hb rev. question then

(if you ask it as one)

Xirema

@Someone_Evil I have now!

Someone_Evil

15:50

@Xirema Cool, then the best answer to your question above is that we don't specifically know (they haven't told us)

Thomas Markov

Are there any spell slot consuming features that consume more than a single slot a time?

Someone_Evil

no...? Not that I can think of

There's arguably the spell mode of glyph of warding, but that isn't actually what you're going for

Or, can't one do multiple slots at the same time with Divine Smite?

Thomas Markov

still one slot at a time, but you can burn as many as you have attavks

the issue im having is find greatest steed should almost certainly be at least 6th level

and paladins only have two 5th level slots at level 19 and 20

So maybe I could make it a "5th level spell" but specify that it consumes two spell slots of 5th level or higher when it is cast

Which would be unique mechanically, but maybe it could work.

LizWeir

hm. if it's a top-level feature, I'd be tempted to just decouple it from the spell slots

Thomas Markov

@LizWeir but I want my Bard to be able to get it with magical secrets :P:P:P

LizWeir

15:59

ah

yeah legit ;-)

Thomas Markov

Tenser's Unicorn needs to happen.

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