TRPG General Chat - 2020-07-10 (page 2 of 2)

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4:00 PM

Making it cost two spell slots of at least 5th level makes it a 19th level paladin feature

but only a 10th level Bard feature

so that doesnt quite work.

How about this:

Make it a 9th level Paladin spell, then associate it with a 19th level paladin class feature that allows you to have it always prepared and cast it with two 5th level slots.

Perfectly possible (by the rules) to have spells on a class list of higher level than the class gets slots (see Warlock). But normally design would say there's no point to include them, so they aren't

hm, the warlock thing's a good example

because those are precisely the ones that you get access to via a class feature saying you can cast them!

All class spells are that (Spellcasting is a class feature), but yes

So you add this 9th level spell to the paladin list, and give the paladin a 19th level class feature letting them cast it with two 5th level slots. I guess im just going to ask "Does adding this spell and class feature to the Paladin make the class overpowered" or some such. Any ideas on title/framing the question?

@ThomasMarkov That sounds like you should just put it on the Bard list ngl

@ThomasMarkov But isn't what you're interested in how this affects the Bard?

4:12 PM

@Medix2 fine print at the end of the spell description: "this spell is also a bard spell so thomas can save his 18th level magical secret pick for wish and meteor swarm."

@ThomasMarkov Hmm... you're thinking of giving it to the base Paladin, I assumed that would be a subclass feature (=20th level?)

@ThomasMarkov Wait... Does invulnerability work on a steed?

It would appear so.

@Medix2 It's a self-spell, so yes it should be copyable

New goal: Jump off infinitely high mountains with my mount because of invulnerability

4:14 PM

inb4 your pegasus gets power word killed out of the sky.

You would also be affected by invul so you'd be fine, it would just be less awesome

@ThomasMarkov Death ward? Wait... That wouldn't work, hmmmmm I guess counterspell or just having a lot of HP somehow

I was gonna add the catoblepas to the list.

@Medix2 that's not how mountaineering is supposed to work

but no: Any creature other than a catoblepas that starts its turn within 10 feet of the catoblepas must succeed on a DC 16 Constitution saving throw or be poisoned until the start of the creature’s next turn. On a successful saving throw, the creature is immune to the stench of any catoblepas for 1 hour.

4:16 PM

Hmmm how do things that require certain amount of hit points affect temporary hit points...

@ThomasMarkov You can get immunity to poisoned, surely

12

Q: Do temporary hit points count as part of the HP for resisting certain magical effects?

Temporary hit points in Dungeons & Dragons are a mechanic that allows "a buffer against damage" (PHB 198). There are a few spells of note that can affect a character based on how many hit points they currently have, most notably sleep, power word stun, and power word kill. Does temporary HP coun...

dnd-5e spells hit-points temporary-hit-points

@Someone_Evil I guess a corpse can have temporary hit points, neat

So many of the good candidates for greatest steed are from other source books

Ravnica and Theros in parituclar

for homebrew you're using, surely you having the books suffices?

You could use them anyhow, especially since it's your homebrew

4:23 PM

do you think simply adding it to the paladin's class features would be to OP? Do you guys think I should replace some particular class feature?

@ThomasMarkov It just seems weird to me? Like if it's just a class feature then the other two steed spells get worse in a way and it directly incentivizes taking self target spells. Not bad things, but worth thinking about imo

hmmm

Also, if it's just a class feature, all paladins automatically know that spell

paladins know spells automatically anyway, it's a preparation question

hmmmmmm

4:27 PM

I don't know that the other steed spells get worse, either; they stop being relevant when you get that one, but they're just as good for most of the level range

@Someone_Evil this is what ive got to think through, thanks

@LizWeir I guess that's just similar to me. I never really liked switching spell X for direct upgrade spell Y

@Medix2 i figure since find steed and find greater steed already did that, it wouldnt be so bad to do it more to them.

@ThomasMarkov Well they did now XD

Since before FGS got invented FS could have the same effects. Actually hmmm, I'd probably just change FGS to scale with spell slot by CR somehow

@Medix2 id thought of that, but paladins only go up to 5th level slots

4:32 PM

@ThomasMarkov Oh right... And scaling by Paladin level might be unusual and wouldn't help your Bard...

@Medix2 MAKE IT A CANTRIP

so it scales with character level

not op at all.

or just ignore paladins entirely and make it a 9th level bard spell

That's also a solution

OR, forget class features, add a note in the spell description that says "a paladin may cast this spell expending two 5th level spell slots instead of one 9th level spell slot" and make it just a paladin spell.

i think ill go with that

Your options are nearly limitless, I can merely sit here and smile

Find Someone_Evil
10th-level Conjuration

Point to an unoccupied space within range. If that space is a comment section, Someone_Evil appears.

4:38 PM

@ThomasMarkov You can cast that using wish, it just might go wrong

@ThomasMarkov Yeah, markdown is broken in multiline chat messages :(

lame

But are you finding me in a lot of comment threads then?

"Doing full markdown parsing on long multiline messages can be costly and it opens up the path for trolls to be extra annoying. Chat isn't intended for posting long fully-formatted messages." (source)

1 hour later…

6:01 PM

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica "Rules litigation" maybe?

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

Maybe?

And then we have Rules Ambulance Chasers? ^_^

Here's a fun question: Is this book considered "official" on the same level as the other sourcebooks for 5e?

@NautArch Is the other Extra Life material typically counted as such?

@Someone_Evil I have no idea.

its on dndbeyond so...i have no idea

6:05 PM

@NautArch Would you count One Grung Above?

@Someone_Evil ha! I was just thinking about that one.

But for now, i'm abstaning from answering :P

Well, "litigation" in the sense that you have something you want and you're trying to get it "within the law," without regard for anything like consistency of application.

@Someone_Evil They both are in 'Sourcebooks' on dndbeyond, too.

Just sort of interesting based on this question. Where the statement in the Folio seems to change a lot of other statements in other sourcebooks.

Huh... This is one reason why giving the sources is important. They don't always agree

I would only interpret MFF to mean that "many demiplanes are found in the depth of the ethereal plane", not that "ALL demiplanes are in the ethereal plane unless otherwise clarified"

6:11 PM

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Depends. Were there people who constantly responded to build advice with some 10-charm set you could litigate to be invincible?

@Carcer I think that's reasonable, but it's not what the text actually says. Poorly written is still poorly written :)

Heh, I finally have the opportunity to rank about comment-answers on main meta. No way this could go wrong right?

1

Q: Is commenting on a question an appropriate substitute to answering a question?

Recently I've noticed a pattern of users answering questions by way of comments. Generally this is followed by downvoting the question itself and eventually the question gets closed. Is that considered "good form"? I fail to see how that provides an actual answer and it ends up in questions witho...

discussion comments answers

@Rubiksmoose balanced out your first downvote!

Thanks! I fully expect to be downvoted into oblivion, but am also prepared to be pleasantly surprised. Not that I think it will lead to any real change either way sadly.

@Rubiksmoose I think your footnote hits the nail on the head. Can't unring that bell.

6:18 PM

Theros has been on DDB for a few weeks, my pre ordered hard copy not getting here until 23 July. 😕

@NautArch Alas, if only. On SO it would be bascially a full-time job just policing the comments. Theoretically, after a while the community would start self-policing. But it's just never going to happen. Too much effort, too much friction, too much status quo.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@Glazius Ah, Chung. Except not invincible, depending on Stunt interpretation, but a requirement to avoid a sudden death by five mooks with big hammers.

6:36 PM

Bah it got duped. So new answer on

0

A: When to answer a question and when to comment on a question?

Always answer in the answers, never in the comments Comments are not for answering the question. They are, as laid out in the comment everywhere privilege, for when you want to: Request clarification from the author; Leave constructive criticism that guides the author in improving the post; Ad...

Go check out find greatest steed

@ThomasMarkov just commented, but paladins don't get it :(

@NautArch See earlier today for paladins not getting a 9th level spell

(And it not being worth the effort to make it both available to paladins and a 9th level spell for Bard's Magical Secrets)

yeah, i dunno. I don't think I can answer. There are no similar mechanics at all like that.

Are the normally found steeds (by spell) controlled or independent?

6:43 PM

And because of magical secrets, i'm still not sure. I already really have an issue with bards (kinda), and other classes that get access to paladin spells before the paladin does.

@Someone_Evil technically independent, but i have a feeling most tables just leave it to the paladin/player

I'm not sure how strict most tables are regarding mount rules

I was thinking of with re mount rules, which has the major question of them attacking or not

We let our paladin mounts attack, but not sure about RAW because it's confusing/unreasonable

Ahh... what a familiar feeling

The Paladin can prepare spells for which he has slots to cast.

@NautArch I’ll add a bit clarifying the intent and how I’m arguing the current wording works to allow the Paladin to prepare it.

@ThomasMarkov i think it's okay, i got it now.

6:49 PM

"The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots." is the exact wording for the paladin, but its close enough for homebrew if the intent as made clear, I think.

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica How can it be invincible if I can see it?

@ThomasMarkov Another consideration is this eats up 13% of a paladins spell slots, but only 4% of a full caster.

It's a much higher cost for the paladin.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@Yuuki 'Since I'm invisible, I can now walk through walls!'

@NautArch though it is a permanent choice for the bard at the cost of a different choice of 9th level spell.

@ThomasMarkov yeah, but any find steed, especially greater (and greatest!) is a HUGE option to take. THe mobility and extra actions alone make it an incredible choice.

And if they can keep it alive, it's an ongoing effect (which a bard can via their healing)

6:53 PM

The paladin only has to prepare and cast it one day (unless the steed dies), no?

Correct.

Yup, and the paladin can use their own healing as well to keep it going.

as much as possible, it functions the same as greater, just with better mounts.

And the Bard gets it a level earlier than paladin

@NautArch which is consistent with greater :p

6:55 PM

@ThomasMarkov yeah, and that;s weak, too.

I really dislike it when other classes get the iconoic paladin spells before the paladin.

@NautArch dont you mean you dislike bards? :p

what other means are there for leeching paladin unique spells?

There some subclasses which get otherwise exclusive spells, but I think that's pretty much it

Yeah, tempest clerics and I think another

@NautArch clerics are just nerdy paladins, theres enough overlap there.

@ThomasMarkov As someone who played a paladin for a long time and had a tempest cleric join the party, no. No there is not enough overlap :P

7:02 PM

haha

Just realized my spell is totally busted if you multiclass with a fullcaster.

and especially if you are at a table that has scrolls easily available

10 Wizard/2 Paladin can prepare it.

rip me

you can always delete and work on it

might do that, the multiclass abuse busts the whole thing.

are deleted posts saved in my profile for reference?

Yes, but not viewable by others than you or diamond mods

You can only see it if it's deleted with the last 60 days IIRC

7:09 PM

And only for you for a certain amount of time. A few months I think?

so deleting and reposting later is cool?

Definitely

We generally prefer you undeleting, rather than reposting.

You should be able to edit while deleted, and can flag obsolete comments as NLN. (At least once undeleted)

@ThomasMarkov You guys are misunderstanding how multiclassing works lol...

@HellSaint I think youre right!

thanks for pointing that out.

7:16 PM

That's actually one of the main issues in multiclassing spellcasters

You get the higher level spell slots but you can not prepare/learn spells from that level

@HellSaint I agree with HellSaint here

which means you can only use those spell slots to upcast worse spells (which are usually worse than actual spells from higher levels)

@HellSaint Yup because you prepare as if you were individually classed in each class. A Wizard 19 / Cleric 1 cannot prepare 9th level Cleric spells. (We have questions on this somewhere)

Ill rework that section in my question, explaining who can prepare the spell and why.

Yeah I linked one of them about Druids, but all the classes have the exact same wording AFAIK

7:18 PM

I admit I didn't actually look at the clause that ended up in the spell, so I'll claim innocence

I think "A Paladin can prepare this as a 5th level spell, but it then costs an additional 5th level spell slot to cast" should work

I think the only "exploit" would be a Bard 11 Paladin 1 casting it using two 5th level slots. But if you can only expend two 5th-level slots if it is prepared as a Paladin spell, that goes away tol

"as a 5th level paladin spell" then?

"A paladin can prepare this spell as they would normally prepare a 5th-level spell, but expends two 5th-level spell slots to cast it."

@ThomasMarkov What level would it count as for counterspell/dispell then?

I think that should preclude bard from getting it earlier than 18th

7:22 PM

You can not dispel it @Rubiksmoose

@Rubiksmoose Still 9th, it just has exceptions for how a paladin can work it.

@HellSaint ... you're just not trying hard enough?

@Rubiksmoose haha. I mean, Thomas put the duration as Instantaneous, so you can not dispel it

Still leaves counterspell

@ThomasMarkov Might be worth adding that caveat in there for the paladin since spells are the level of the slot they are cast with. And that would mean that, for a paladin, by RAW, this would be a 2x5th level spell.

7:24 PM

We have no idea what a 2x5th level spell is though, so I guess that's 9. QUICK MATH

2x5=9. Seems right.

Within acceptable accuracy range

@HellSaint it was a good point. I forgot the duration of the spell lol

@Rubiksmoose 2x5 = π² good to know

Is there any reason a Bard would prefer this spell over True Polymorphing a Stone into a Young Silver Dragon and getting friendly with it? No idea.

7:28 PM

marginally less work than getting friendly with a dragon, methinks.

well it's a dragon that is forced to be your friend for the first 24h

you just have to be nice to it

also it's lawful good, can't be that hard to make it a friend

comments can be probably be cleaned up at this point

@HellSaint Where's the 24h clause of t.poly?

@Someone_Evil I might have misremembered

No worries, I remembered it as 30 days, but that's because of awaken and a never realized plan involving hydras

7:33 PM

Oh it's just one hour. Even simpler.

I thought it took 24h for True Poly to become permanent.

But yeah, True Poly might depend on your DM. "If the spell becomes permanent, you no longer control the creature. It might remain friendly to you, depending on how you have treated it." - in my case, unless the PC decided to harass or torture the poor creature, it would stay in the PC's control

btw I'm with Cubic in that answer: I think the spell introduces new, awkward mechanics, with a goal that may be explored in a simpler way through a magic item. Idk, Magic Saddle, or something haha

The fact that it is a non-concentration spell is nice, but overall summoning a CR5 creature (Summon Greater Demon, Conjure Elemental) is 4-5th level spell stuff (although they do have major drawbacks with the summoned creature becoming hostile when concentration breaks)

Note this is talking about permanent summoning, which the game doesn't do a lot of (even at higher levels)

Yeah but you can only have one either way.

I think the main reason permanent summons are not a thing is so a player can not go around making an army of monsters that ultimately breaks action economy

(and, well, becomes boring to play because you have to roll 100d20)

2 hours later…

9:27 PM

Huh... mortarboard is apparently earnable on meta

Hot RPG Questions

7

Q: Is there a class ability, spell or other, that lets you share spells with your familiar?

Scenario: I have a Wizard/Warlock with the Pact of the Chain feature, who I have themed off He-Man. I love the idea of using Tenser's Transformation to buff both he and his familiar up for combat. However, it has a range of self, which seems to really limit my options. Does anyone have a work ar...

dnd-5e spells familiars

@Someone_Evil ? How?

If you get 20 upvotes? Even though there is no actual rep count on meta?

I guess I should have tried to look that up shouldn't I?

37

Q: Should I really have been awarded mortarboard on a Per-site meta?

The Ask Ubuntu Town hall digest caused me to win the Mortarboard badge, yey! But wait. [Mortarboard] Hit the daily reputation cap for the first time Per-site metas don't have any reputation... I am confused :-) I know why I got the badge. Should I have? Let me rephrase. Is this behavior ...

bug status-bydesign per-site-meta daily-reputation-badges

Though it doesn't look like we're gonna get any Epic badges awarded anytime soon

9:51 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Username similar to website in answer (62): If you are falling, can you Misty Step to the ground to avoid damage? by Dnd Warlock on rpg.SE (@Rubiksmoose)

10:01 PM

That’s a cool bot.

It's a community project! (Not this particular community) it's become a pretty essential tool for keeping sites clean and friendly.

I think I read too much of that trying to assess if there was likely a human behind it

@Someone_Evil I did as well...

I think it had to be human. It was close enough to actually answering the question.

yeah

10:06 PM

@Someone_Evil I actually had no idea. And have no idea how that even works...

It's almost certainly a human being writing

@HellSaint I take it back.

I went to the website it linked.

Holy smokes.

?

It’s a word salad to say the least.

I didn't because I don't want to give him clicks by spamming :P

well, it's a poorly writing human being

people bad at writing are also people!

10:07 PM

@HellSaint It's weird that so few people would have gotten that though. Or maybe not I suppose. It is Meta.

“Who is Warlock? Warlock is a character full of the magical worlds. While playing the individual who chooses Warlock would be a great knowledge seeker. “

@Rubiksmoose I assume it looks at the votes and not actually rep assigned

It must.

@Rubiksmoose 20 upvotes in a day in meta seems not that easy tbh

@HellSaint Pshhh, you just gotta pick the right metas ;-)

10:09 PM

How many did @nitsua60 get recently? Must be more than 20

I meant in RPG.meta haha

@Someone_Evil I don't know that any of those hit 20 in a day, though.

Inching up to some Good Question and Good Answer badges. Or Nice. I forget which is 25.

Nice is 10, Good is 25

“ For instance, if the player has two spell slots available from the third level, and has 1st level spell from the list he can increase the level of strength by leaving one slot from third, and 1st level spell intensity can be increased to match the level player is playing on. ” This is WILD

@nitsua60 13 and 12 on the self answered one, so that day's one of your 'rep caps'

10:20 PM

user image

10:46 PM

Actually, before I take on this as a project I'd like a sanity check: Do we already have a tag which is supposed to cover hirelings and followers?

minion?

followers-and-hirelings?

@BESW (That's the tag I just made, so it kinda doesn't count)

Ah.

@Someone_Evil as far as I know, we don't.

minion is arguable, but that feels quite different

11:01 PM

It'd be different in some systems but not in others.

Mmm... but I guess we can there go with using what the game calls them

11:32 PM

@Someone_Evil Two MSE posts I found: "Is there a reason why we gain ghost reputation on the meta of an SE website?" and "Should I really have been awarded mortarboard on a Per-site meta?"

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