TRPG General Chat

Himitsu_no_Yami

00:00

Maybe but I'm not sure

Schrodinger's Message

HellSaint

00:15

@Medix2 yeap, pretty much that.

Himitsu_no_Yami

Turns out, by copy pasting some text from a question here, I made it into the "Stupid Roll20 Tricks (and some clever ones)" thread on the Roll20 forums

Ben

00:52

Morning all

Shalvenay

01:23

hey there @linksassin, how're things going?

linksassin

@Shalvenay G'day. Busy, but alright. Yourself?

Shalvenay

@linksassin doing alright here, have a rather strange thought-experiment involving a Bladesinger rattling around my head as of late though

linksassin

@Shalvenay Interesting. I've actually been building a bladesinger to replace my druid in a current campaign. Druid is still alive but for story reasons I think the new character will be more interesting.

Shalvenay

@linksassin aaah. want me to throw it at you in a Discord PM?

(the thought experiment, that is)

linksassin

@Shalvenay Sure. Not sure if I'll have time to look at it today but always happy to think about RPG stuff.

nitsua60

01:48

@MikeQ That's funny when you say "older editions of D&D," and are referring to editions after all the ones I played =)

(excepting 5e, ofc)

MikeQ

They're older than the current edition. Hence, older.

nitsua60

@MikeQ yup =)

(Reminds me of a professor who was always peeved at people who say "when I was younger." "Were you ever OLDER!?" he'd ask?)

linksassin

→ 24 messages moved to Discussion re:Bag of Holding in Astral Plane question

nitsua60

02:36

@Himitsu_no_Yami Longer the message is, shorter it appears for.

Ben

03:09

@linksassin Feels

gszavae

03:48

Due to link rot this question contains a spam link: https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/12534/vow-of-poverty-overpowered-or-underpowered

I couldn't find a method for flagging locked questions, not sure why.

Ben

@gszavae You'd basically just have to point it to a mod @Someone_Evil @linksassin @V2Blast

The Oracle

0

Q: Should locked questions be unprotected?

There are a number of locked questions that are protected. This causes them to stay in the protected list indefinitely, hampering cleanup. Since there is no risk that low rep users are going to comment on locked questions, it would be helpful to unprotect them to clear them out of the queue. The ...

discussion

gszavae

04:03

@Ben Cheers

Medix2

Of note: you can flag any locked post unless it is locked for historical reasons

Ben

@Medix2 Which the one in question is

Medix2

Hmmm how to search for protected questions...

Found a list

linksassin

04:26

@gszavae Is it the link in the question itself? I'll just remove it if so

Haha nvm. As soon as I hit edit I got a warning for the link. I'll remove it.

@gszavae Thanks for letting us know.

@Medix2 Did you find an answer for that? I'm not sure it's possible.

Medix2

@linksassin It was in tools

linksassin

@Medix2 Ah yes. Just found it.

Medix2

@linksassin Oddly enough "protected:1 locked:1" brings up only this question

Oh... it's because the body uses the word "protected", weird...

linksassin

04:41

@Medix2 "protected" isn't a keyword in search unfortunately. It should be but isn't.

Medix2

@linksassin Yeah I'm just amazed "protected:1" works at all

would've thought the :1 would mess something up

gszavae

@Medix2 for reference, I unprotected approximately 700 questions over the last week

Medix2

@gszavae 0_0

Is there a "recently unprotected" list?

gszavae

@Medix2 Not that I know of. I assume there's an activity list somewhere though

Medix2

I'm kinda confused why protected questions don't automatically unprotect after X amount of time tbh (probably some reason)

gszavae

04:51

@Medix2 Agreed. The vast majority hadn't been answered in years, many of them never had a single deleted answer

Medix2

@gszavae Well at least your all activity page doesn't seem to list them

One problem of course is we can't know how much activity was stopped by a question being protected

gszavae

@Medix2 Yup. It looks like the intention is to protect for a short time, then unprotected and see how it goes, reprotecting if necessary.

Medix2

@gszavae Searching for feature-requests for changes now

gszavae

There doesn't appear to be any provision for preemptively protecting questions and leaving them for 5 years.

Medix2

@gszavae There's not exactly harm in protecting a question that is quite likely to get low-quality answers

But it definitely gets into some difficulty with "well how do know a question is quite likely to get low-quality answers?" the answer to which is probably "plenty of site-experience and intuition"

gszavae

04:57

@Medix2 I'm not so sure about that. I don't see much harm in waiting for at least 1 or 2 problematic answers before protecting. It feels like a solution looking for a problem.

Medix2

Also TIL you can only protect a question if it actually has an answer by somebody with 10 or less rep (unless you're a Moderator)

gszavae

When I started looking through them last week I was a bit confused since many of them had no deleted answers at all and not a lot of answers in total. It's hard to say if it caused harm or good when a question with 1 answer and no deleted answers gets protected. Personally, I would be cautious.

Medix2

Also apparently questions that get multiple (5+) answers from low rep users in 24 hours are auto-protected

gszavae

Oh, I saw some that were protected by the community, so I'm guessing that's what it refers to?

Medix2

@gszavae I'd bet on it at least

I'm actually finding various people saying old questions with accepted answers should be auto-protected. (and counterpoints)

gszavae

05:06

@Medix2 Generally, I would be against things that exclude new users en masse without a really really good reason. I don't think we have much of a problem with new users necroing old questions with bad answers. It does happen, but not so often that the queues can't deal with it (the queues are almost always empty they are dealt with so fast).

Medix2

@gszavae Agreed, though I don't know how other sites are doing I'd imagine we're just fine

Finally found a relevant question

@gszavae Also I'd perhaps have been more cautious/wary before unprotecting 700 questions. Though for all I know you asked about why they were still protected before doing so

All I found is the idea that a low-quality-answer-attractor is likely to remain a low-quality-answer-attractor as time goes on, though I certainly could have missed something

That was fun to think about at least so thanks for bringing it up! I think I'm gonna get some rest now, gnight

gszavae

@Medix2 I checked to see if they had any deleted answers if they had any activity at all, if there was a meta or reason listed in comments for protection that was unusual, and there was any evidence that they were going to attract any more attention. The vast majority of questions had no deleted answers, no recent activity at all, and no meta/special reason given for protection. I investigated the rest as best I could. If there's any that have problems, they can still be protected after all

@Medix2 Catch you later

Medix2

@gszavae Well I'd certainly call that thorough then, nicely done and I appreciate the cleanup!

gszavae

06:13

This question mentions only 5e in the question but is tagged system agnostic and WoD. I was thinking of removing the WoD tag since it can cause problems. Any advice? rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/171346/…

Miniman

@gszavae The WoD tag is useful information, and they mention the storyteller system in the question which I believe is the same thing. So I definitely wouldn't remove that.

gszavae

@Miniman Should tags be moved around to include 5e too then? I think it may cause problems for people with tag exclusions if tags are included because they are incidentally mentioned but aren't integral to the question/answers

Miniman

Personally, my opinion is pretty much always that the system-agnostic tag is fundamentally nonsensical and only serves to encourage unfounded navel gazing, but I'm well aware that I'm in the minority there, and the OP put it on there themself.

gszavae

Well, putting that aside, having tags WoD + system agnostic on a question that mentions 5e is not ideal. Tagging a system + system agonistic doesn't really make any sense either. Answers should address the question anyway, tags should only categorize the question, not define the answers.

Miniman

@gszavae Well, yeah. If it was up to me, I'd rip system-agnostic out of there in a heartbeat. But I'm not going to mess with the tags the OP chose to put on their question, and the ones put there by others all seem to be describing the subject matter of the question pretty well.

It's not necessarily ideal, but that doesn't mean that it needs to be changed.

gszavae

06:27

@Miniman Well, I know it hides the question for me, so I would prefer it to be changed in some way. Regardless I don't think "the asker put the tag" is a reason not to change it.

Miniman

@gszavae If you look at the comments, you can see the votes for and against the system-agnostic tag on that question. I'd prefer to remove it too, but I know I'm in the minority here, and I'm not going to put my own preferences above those of the community.

You have the privileges to do whatever you think is best, but you asked for advice, and I guess that's mine.

gszavae

@Miniman Cheers :thumbsup:

Adeptus

Kobold Press are giving away 5e adventure Sanctuary of Belches this week

BESW

07:09

"Wizards of the Coast Freelancer Quits Due to Hostile Work Environment," tor.com article by Stubby the Rocket. Also references the statements by Lawrence Harmon and Zaiem Beg.

8

"yes, we're still in lockdown" sale hosted by blake stone / fenced forest to fundraise for bills and such while they're unemployed.

Caro Asercion wrote a twitter thread "about agency in theatre, and agency in tabletop games, and their points of intersection and convergence."

Russ Wilde wrote a twitter thread about the tough choices people are making about their ties with Wizards of the Coast.

3

Pandatheist wrote a twitter thread about "the place [of Dungeons & Dragons] in the market and the place in the community," "how things are and a direction they're likely to go."

At PercyPropa's request, Pammu wrote a twitter thread of indie Filipino games and creators for people to check out and follow.

Things are really hopping.

2

SmokeDetector

11:48

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Username similar to website in answer (62): What software can I use to simulate a deck of cards for playing online? by Nathan Stockton on rpg.SE (@Rubiksmoose)

Someone_Evil

12:00

Could someone check something for me? Do you see the new prominent edit button on this question (which is closed+locked)?

LizWeir

I haven't spotted an edit button on there.

kviiri

me neither

Someone_Evil

Ok, good. I can probably live with that annoyance then

Rubiksmoose

That's what I see.

Someone_Evil

@Rubiksmoose But you, like me, can still edit that post. Promting us to edit it is a touch strange though

Rubiksmoose

12:06

ahhhh I see what you're saying.

nitsua60

12:49

@Rubiksmoose can you delete those three ^^ for me? I'm posting a meta, hopefully less out of frustration and not naming the user.

Rubiksmoose

@nitsua60 Done!

The Oracle

0

Q: What is an "edit war" and is it ever appropriate?

I was recently involved in a series of back-and-forth edits to the tags of a question. In particular, the question lacked any explicit statement or tag designating the system, so it was closed in accordance with our don't guess the system policy. Another user (not the querent) added a system tag ...

discussion editing moderation

nitsua60

@Rubiksmoose ty

NautArch

13:01

looks like i missed quite a night

what were you doing up so late @nitsua60?!

i'm too old for that :P

nitsua60

@NautArch Only 10:30...?

NautArch

@nitsua60 oh weird, ic ould have sworn the timestamp was later

Rubiksmoose

13:20

Is 10:30 not late anymore?

lol

nitsua60

@Rubiksmoose Not since I switched from public to boarding schools =)

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose oddly, pre-pandemic i'd stay up later than my wife. We've switched.

nitsua60

In public I was in bed at 9, up at 4:30. Here, hell, I'm on duty until midnight some days.

Thomas Markov

10:30 was late until I had kids. Now its late with respect to expectations and early with respect to reality.

Rubiksmoose

oh man! I used to be such a night owl, up til like 1-2am. Then my sleep schedule stabilized and I started going to bed earlier. Now I'm back to nightowling because of the pandemic.

NautArch

13:24

I'm just finding i need more 'escape' time before going back to bed

nitsua60

^^

Rubiksmoose

I've never thought of it like that but I guess it is the same with me...

I recently finished reading through all the Discworld books, which were the perfect bedtime escape.

Made me very sad to finish them though...

nitsua60

@gszavae I don't know whether you saw the ping I left earlier--if you did, I apologize. That was a knee-jerk reaction. (Well, I apologize either way. Because if you didn't, now I've let you know that I said something unbecoming.)

Rubiksmoose

But now I've started reading the Broken Earth trilogy. Not usually into traditional fantasy books really (or at least I haven't really read anything from the genre besides Pratchett, who only sorta counts anyways, for a long time), but I'm enjoying it so far. Has anybody else read them?

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose I haven't. I"m still in the RIft Wars series :P

Rubiksmoose

13:31

So far, I'd recommend it. (about 75% through the first book)

NautArch

I'll add it to my list, but I still have quite a few books left in the series.

Took a break to read The World That We Knew by Alice Hoffman.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch oh my goodness, that is quite a list!

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose Yeah, it's been keeping me busy :)

Rubiksmoose

How a far are you? (knowing nothing about the series that is)

NautArch

I"ve really enjoyed almost all of it. One trilogy I had trouble getting into, but finished it and now i'm fully back in.

I'm up to Conclave of Shadows. Nearly done with the 2nd book.

so...10 books to go?

Still amazed that Feist basically played in this world for an RPG and then made it his entire universe to write about.

Rubiksmoose

13:34

@NautArch Nice! Plenty of good stuff to come it seems. :)

NautArch

The timeline is pretty amazing. I think we're about 3 generations removed from the original players.

in the first book, not the original players when Feist started playing :P

Rubiksmoose

hahaha. That's pretty cool!

I have an author friend that wrote a book based loosely on our last long-running D&D campaign. Very loosly. Basically she based it on her and my character more than anything else.

NautArch

@kviiri When/if you eventually run 13th age, are you planning on using a grid?

Looks like my group may try another RPG after we finish Dead in Thay

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Another RPG meaning not D&D?

Is there even such a thing ;-P

NautArch

it's so exciting!

except that Paranoia got brought up again

i'm pushing for 13th age.

Rubiksmoose

13:50

@NautArch Honestly, from what I've heard of your group, they may actually enjoy Paranoia. Whether the whole table will or not, I don't know.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose I think it may be better with me running than the old DM.

but even then, i'd rather go with something that's really about tactical combat.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch With only what you've told me about him, I'd definitely agree lol

NautArch

And honestly, I"m really liking DMing right now.

Maybe it's my need to need to have some control over something right now.

user-63873687

Does anyone happen to know if, in 5e, Lighting Lure can pull through creatures? Or else know if there's a question about it already (I couldn't find one but it seems like something that would have been asked before)

NautArch

but it's also that I get to play every turn :)

Rubiksmoose

13:52

(with all the warnings we've talked about that come along with playing Paranoia kept in mind of course)

NautArch

^that's mostly why I'm not interested in bringing it back

I would consider going back to Iron Kingdoms, but another player has preferred to stay in d20 systems.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Man, I'm the opposite right now. I'm down for pretty much anything except tactical combat lol

NautArch

@user-63873687 I'm not seeing anything already asked about it. It'd be a good question, and I'd probably say no you can't. But not sure how solid that ruling would be.

@Rubiksmoose We really like combat :)

Our RP is more about "acting my character in combat"

Someone_Evil

@user-63873687 There's one on thorn whip

NautArch

@Someone_Evil I added a comment to Rykara's answer on that.

I still don't think I'd allow it

Rubiksmoose

13:57

@user-63873687 to be clear, do youmean "pull a creature all the way through another creature" or "can I pull a creature with LL if there's a creature in front of it" ?

(there isn't a question about either that I can tell, but it might help to clarify that)

NautArch

It may/may not depend on ally' or enemy, too.

Someone_Evil

We're also presumably meaning through the space of another creature, so past the actual creature

Bardic Wizard

What about force effects like forcecage? Could you pull a creature through it with LL? Would it have to go around?

Ooh, now you’ve got me wondering about the edge cases

Someone_Evil

@BardicWizard How are you casting the relevant spell through?

Rubiksmoose

@BardicWizard Better question, could you pull them through it in one piece. ;-)

Medix2

14:02

Doesn't forcecage explicitly say you can't go through it or something?

Someone_Evil

Oh, right, forcecage can have gaps

Medix2

But wouldn't that just mean there is no forcecage?

Someone_Evil

> A prison in the shape of a cage can be up to 20 feet on a side and is made from 1/2-inch diameter bars spaced 1/2 inch apart.

A prison in the shape of a box can be up to 10 feet on a side, creating a solid barrier that prevents any matter from passing through it and blocking any spells cast into or out from the area.

Bardic Wizard

Forcecage prevents leaving by nonmagical means

Medix2

Oh we have a question on the definition of "nonmagical means"

Bardic Wizard

14:04

Teleportation and interplanar travel require a saving throw, but it says nothing about being pulled

Medix2

This

kviiri

@NautArch Not for combat at least: the system uses a somewhat more abstract/TotM-ish approach where precise locations are not tracked, but rather relative locations (and somewhat fuzzily)

Some online whiteboard might be good for having an idea on what's going on tho

Bardic Wizard

I think the LL thing might just be a question on what the movement is/is it magical movement

NautArch

@kviiri yeah, that's what I was reading, but then saw a reddit post about grids and got confused.

I just started reading the core book, though.

kviiri

The model is a bit like... not zones, but combatants divided in clusters? Not 100% sure if I remember all the details correct

NautArch

14:09

@kviiri I'm just starting to read Chapte 2 after reading about the Icons.

kviiri

@NautArch Did you like the icons?

NautArch

@kviiri Without yet understanding what they are, yes :)

kviiri

Righty roo ^_^

NautArch

but thematically, they are cool. I'm guessing people 'follow' an icon like a god?

kviiri

I'll be a bit out of touch for the rest of the evening, but feel free to ping me if anything comes up

@NautArch In a sense, yes! (The comparison between deities and icons is actually explicitly brought up later in the book)

LizWeir

14:11

they're potentially a bit more of a personal relationship than a god

kviiri

Personal, political, or somesuch

LizWeir

yeah

like, you might have a 2 or 3 point relationship with the Emperor because you're a member of the Civil Service

NautArch

And my early impression of that system is something I really like.

I think it's a better jumping off point for player interactions.

LizWeir

they're important in your life, connected to you in some way. High Priestess and Great Gold Wyrm and the other dragons could be a quite religious follow-a-god angle

(also, this is the bit where I have to remind myself that it's the Lich King in the book - I have apparently managed to overwrite something in my head such that the default setting for a particular set of tropes is Lich Queen)

(I'm entirely OK with this but it does mean slightly more effort when talking to people sometimes ;-) )

kviiri

The Lich King is kinda interesting in that they are the sovereign of almost all undead, not just your average Very Powerful Lich

LizWeir

14:15

yeah :-D

NautArch

And they still have an important role to play in lives.

It's all really interesting. Can't wait to start diving in more.

kviiri

(And hence he hates necromancers who don't serve him)

NautArch

Just have to do some more prep for finsihing Dead in Thay :P

LizWeir

I played a character in a one-shot a few months back whose Thing was that she was a barrow-wight type - chieftain of a small town centuries ago, resurrected when her tomb was disturbed

NautArch

@LizWeir Was this a homebrew one-shot?

LizWeir

14:17

honestly not sure

kviiri

@NautArch @KorvinStarmast I think I want to re-activate regarding the campaign, as noted a few minutes up I'll be busy tonight and prolly tomorrow as well but let's be in touch

LizWeir

came up with the character myself, don't know if the GM was working from something or not

NautArch

I think i'd prefer to run something to get a better feel for them.

LizWeir

(we used the Dwarf-Forged race for my undead stuff, because it did a good job of handling "terrifyingly resilient, just keeps going")

so I took IIRC a 2-point neutral/complex relationship to the Lich King. can't remember exactly how I framed it, but kinda "yeah, his power's animating me, probably. doesn't mean I'm going to listen to him."

Medix2

I wish thing like the "unanswered" tab would also give you the syntax used in the search... ah well. Got it: "is:q hasaccepted:0 isanswered:0 closed:0""

NautArch

14:27

@Rubiksmoose I'd also very much recommend The World that We Knew

it's a very interesting take on WWII and highlights a lot of the real good that people were doing during it to help.

Medix2

@NautArch Read that for a WWII history course, would certainly recommend it as well

NautArch

@Medix2 IT's funny, my mom called it Magical Realism, but I don't :)

Medix2

@NautArch I wouldn't have called it that but I do see what they mean. Guess I'll think on it

NautArch

My hunch is that it's more of the heron bit than the golem bit.

Medix2

@NautArch I may just think of fabulism as magic being everywhere/regular/expected whereas here it wasn't

NautArch

14:39

@Medix2 And maybe i'm just used to more fantasy

Medix2

14:49

I forgot about the "New Contributor" message being site-specific even between a Main and a Meta, makes for some funny moments XD

Thomas Markov

Yeah I was a new contributor on meta

Medix2

@ThomasMarkov Even mods can get the message

KorvinStarmast

@kviiri woo hoo, heck yeah! :)

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast you may have gotten further in your 13th age reading than me...do you think it's doable with a grid, or is it really ToTM?

Or do you use a grid to show who is far/near/engaged?

LizWeir

15:05

I've played on a grid - that can help make some ideas about space a bit more concrete

"the doorway's too narrow for you to get past without getting Engaged," that kind of thing

NautArch

@LizWeir cool. We're definitely a bit more grid-friendly.

LizWeir

you'll probably want to come up with some sort of convention for roughly how far Near and Far are on your grid, and it isn't as tuned for it as a system that actually defines movement distances, but I think it might work.

NautArch

Yeah, if we use roll20 (or if we go to foundry), we could use auras or something to color code distance.

Hot RPG Questions

5

Q: Is this strategy for extending Time Stop via the Extended Spell metamagic valid?

My party is level 17 and one of my PCs is a sorcerer. He discovered a combo using the extended spell with time stop to just freeze time. Time stop lasts a minimum of 2 rounds or 12 seconds so by using 13 sorcery points he could freeze time for 24 h. He could then use 8 of those 24 hours to take a...

dnd-5e spells metamagic time duration

kviiri

@LizWeir Shouldn't like... clustering the tokens be enough?

LizWeir

15:10

Depends how you're using it.

Like, my read is that the group will actively want a reasonably concrete idea of where characters are, so having a loose convention for going from "I'm standing by this pillar and you're over by the door" to "are we near or far from each other?" will be useful.

If all you care about is engaged/near/far that's not a problem, but NautArch's talking about a group that will want to be using a slightly more concrete idea of positioning; it's the difference between "I'm here and you're there so we're Near" and "we're Near each other so I guess I'm about here and you're about there"

does that make sense?

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch My read up on that is that while you can use a grid, they explicitly do not want the grid to drive the action ... and I want to see it work out in play which is why I am so excited to begin.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast yeah, reading Liz's and Kviiri's thoughts make me think the grid is maybe more to show what the room/map looks like and organize tokens by distance so you know where you are at a glance...in your mind.

nitsua60

Ugh... I got 80% of the way through a large meta, a meeting interrupted, and now I'm all out of the flow/train of thought.

Anyone up for reading a draft?

NautArch

@nitsua60 sure

nitsua60

I'll send it your way elsewhere.

NautArch

15:20

:thumbsup:

nitsua60

@NautArch I'm heading out to do some patio-work and then a birthday party, so there's no big rush.

NautArch

@nitsua60 i just asked you one clarification question

KorvinStarmast

@nitsua60 i will be happy to put eyes on it if you'd like ...

@MikeQ we once played a 7 paladin party in Diablo II, each of us had maxed/optimized a different aura.

@Miniman +1

Hot RPG Questions

2

Q: Is my Elephant Shield item balanced?

I created an item which is, conceptually, a hybrid of the Arrow-Catching Shield and the Ring of the Ram. Both of these are rare, however my item has some more restrictions, so I’d class it as uncommon. It was created with a 5th level fighter in mind. Elephant Shield Armor (Shield), uncommon (req...

dnd-5e magic-items homebrew-review

NautArch

15:37

I was looking at my green-flame blade cantrip with my hexblade in 5e, and realized that once it adds another d8 fire to the primary attack, that there will be times when it's better to use it than thirsting blade extra attack.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch depends on the target and fire resistance, but yeah. :)

Medix2

@NautArch Yeah cantrips kinda just do that since they keep scaling whereas attacks only keep scaling if you're a Fighter

LizWeir

all the warrior-type classes have some kind of attack-scaling IIRC - fighters get more attacks, paladins get Improved Divine Smite, barbarians get that scaling on Rage damage

rangers exit my brain every time I read the class, which is probably rude

Medix2

@LizWeir Rogue's get Sneak Attack and Monk's get.... uhhh

Monk gets backwards Fighter I guess, damage scales more than the number of attacks, though Kensei... hmmm

LizWeir

monks literally just get bigger damage dice every few levels ;-)

NautArch

15:43

@Medix2 @KorvinStarmast Moreso I miss out an a potential crit in order to guarantee damage (and they need to be adjacent)

LizWeir

which isn't that different to how Paladin does it

Medix2

Paladin gets higher spell slots to burn on Divine Smite tbh

NautArch

@Medix2 yup :)

Yuuki

15:57

Hmm... I wonder how acceptable it would be to flavor a Monk/Druid multiclass's Wild Shapes as "stances".

Carcer

don't reflavour, just have them declare

"BEAR STANCE!" [turns into literal bear]

LizWeir

The combat side will mostly get weird around anything strongly size-related, but you'll need to think about the "turn into an innocuous animal to scout" use-case

Yuuki

Hmm... maybe just leave that as a combat thing. Could be an interesting conversation piece. "Why do you do these 'animal stances' when you can literally shapeshift into animals?"

Medix2

@HellSaint Oh if you do ask the multiclassing round up question, probably specify that you add all the levels and then divide. Otherwise you get things like Paladin 3 Ranger 3 --> 4th level caster

Thomas Markov

16:12

@Medix2 didnt we ride this ride yesterday? :p

Medix2

@ThomasMarkov Yeah but this is if everybody rounded up because they currently round down which disconnects from how they actually progress

Then again, if everybody rounds up you can get a Paladin 3 AT 4 that counts as a 4th-level caster... hmmmm though that's the same as a Paladin 7 so that might be alright

I guess I know what math I'm doing throughout today XD

Thomas Markov

I already thought about the answer to that one, it seems in most cases rounding up is going to make it match the progression of a pure half0caster

Medix2

@ThomasMarkov Unless you mix half and third casters

Thomas Markov

ugh forgot about them

should i preemptively make some tables for this :P

Medix2

Some of them are weird...

Thomas Markov

16:19

I really hope Hellsaint's question begins with "Ignoring Artificer for now..."

cuz my answer certainly will.

Medix2

I think Artificer would be just like the rest at that point actually

Thomas Markov

Yeah I think it trivializes the artificers mechanic

NautArch

Is this question on topic? It's not really about RPGs, it's about Paizo's finances, no?

Medix2

@ThomasMarkov I honestly think Artificer rounding up was a mistake... they get first level casting and besides that are identical in slot progression to other casters, it just seems unfair imo

NautArch

I'm inclined to count anything from the first Eberron book to be a mistake.

Yuuki

16:22

@NautArch I feel it's one of those tangential things where it's not really aimed at the userbase but if anyone would know, it'd likely be someone in the userbase.

Thomas Markov

@NautArch you mean the wayfinders guide?

Medix2

@NautArch Hmmm, we're allowed to ask about the legality of homebrew and the history of terms. Those aren't about actually playing TTRPGs but they probably have answers known by users of this site. That said, the question kinda seems like a "find a link to the information I need"

NautArch

@Yuuki Yeah, i can see that.

And it's hard to get financial info from privately owned companies

MikeQ

Even if the information is hard to find, it's asking about a TTRPG system. That's on topic.

NautArch

@MikeQ well, it's asking about sales figure for a product that happens to be a TTRPG. But I thin it's loose enough to let it be answered (if it can)

Someone_Evil

16:31

There's this old question if you like going by precedence

NautArch

@Someone_Evil interesting. Answers are kinda what I expected.

GcL

@NautArch It's answerable. It's about a difference between two rpgs. Seems fine.

NautArch

@GcL It is? It looks like it is about sales figures for 2e and Paizo as a whole.

which is still fine, but it's not about the difference between RPGs. It's about sales, revenue, and profits.

GcL

Similar to asking the delta between the number of published pages of two different RPGs.

It's about the games characteristics... in this case, financial success.

Medix2

@GcL What two rpgs?

Ah the "last year" section, mb

NautArch

16:42

Either way, I don't see a need to debate. I think the question is fine, but OP is not going to get the answer they'd like.

GcL

@Medix2 Pathfinder 2e and D&D 5e

NautArch

@GcL Oh, I didn't read that at all. I got sales in year 1 vs year 2 for 2e. And then a followup on Paizo as a whole.

GcL

I concur. I don't expect them to get an answer here, but maybe some of the Paizzo people do visit this site.

NautArch

If they do, I highly doubt they will reveal internal numbers.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Maybe we'll get an exclusive

NautArch

16:49

@Rubiksmoose Not if they're smart :P

Rubiksmoose

Maybe we can just get all the RPG companies to post their financial releases here. That would be thrilling!

NautArch

and then there's sourcing. Even if a rep of the company said "oh, we make 2MM", then evidence is still needed. Too much incentive to say you're doing well when you're not (or even vice versa)

But as a private business owner, I would NEVER tell publicly what our revenues are.

Unless I was planting misinformation for my competitors.

HellSaint

@Medix2 Yeah that was my intention from the beginning, obviously I don't want to make it a shenanigan can of worms haha

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch How about this. Tell me everything your revenue is not, and we'll call it good.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose It's not $1.

Rubiksmoose

17:01

I said everything ;-)

But yeah, I mean I'm obviously joking. SE is not the best place for that info.

NautArch

I'm just sayin' this is confidential info for nearly every private company and it's information every competitor would want to know. We can be as silly as we want, but from a business perspective, it's not going to be answered/answerable other than "we don't know"

But there may be ancillary information, like in the linked question above, that can give some insight.

So while I can answer with the most likely that it's unknown, i'd rather wait until someone who plays the game and is more familiar with Paizo to answer.

GcL

Some companies put their sales numbers in their pitch decks.

NautArch

And there's usually an NDA involved in that.

Thomas Markov

@Someone_Evil Ive got an answer to the gith question that clarifies the misocneption the op has

GcL

I don't recall signing any NDAs to listen to sales people wax on about how great and shiny their knobs were.

I do recall wondering what the actual profit margins were on some of the things.

NautArch

17:06

@Someone_Evil oops, should I undupe that gith question? I missed that it was githzerai vs githyanki.

@GcL Did they actually show you numbers (P&Ls or balance sheets)?

Or just say "we made X". And was that gross or profits?

Thomas Markov

@NautArch The querent seems to be misunderstanding that the githyanki and githzerai are the same species, Gith.

NautArch

This question actually is asking about both. Gross to see if sales are up, and profits to see if Paizo is doing well.

@ThomasMarkov yeah, I guess it's a dupe still.

GcL

@NautArch Usually it's X units sold in 2005! or $Y worth of our product being used in production at such grand and prestigious places like P,D, and Q. Advertising adoption or market share? I don't know.

Thomas Markov

But closing it as dupe doesnt allow clarifying the misconception that led to the question.

NautArch

@ThomasMarkov Hmm. I'm not sure. Maybe asking them to restate question asking if Githzerai and Githyanki are the same species?

Thomas Markov

17:10

An explanation of why it is a duplicate would require answering the question, which is technically a different question

And the information is tucked away in a single sentence in MToF

NautArch

@GcL Sure, but do they actually show you the sales figures or just tell you? Depending on the pitch, that data may be...inaccurate.

Someone_Evil

@ThomasMarkov I'd argue that's an assumption on your part (admittedly one I'm inclined to believe), so I'd rather the querent clarify that given they were aware of the question beforehand. (And there is some comments on my answer on the target that is highly releted to this q)

GcL

@NautArch I don't know. Being that lying to a federal agencies also present would be ill advised, I expect then when the slide stated so many units or some dollar value of sales it was accurate enough.

doppelgreener

githyanki and githzerai are actually different races, from what i understand, not merely both Gith

i.e. "gith" no longer exists as such

Thomas Markov

Fair enough. It just seems somewhat similar to "answering in comments" wherein you clarify in a comment what should be clarified in an answer, except its not a comment, its the explanation of dupe.

GcL

17:13

Wouldn't be the first sales or contracts picked up on false premises though. Usually those were promises of what the widget could do though.

NautArch

@GcL It depends on what is happening. For instance, when I applied for a PPP loan, I had to provide documentation for that very purpose. I'm not sure what they are pitching to you or for what,though.

Thomas Markov

MToF does both, it refers to them as separate races, but also describes them as distinct factions of Gith.

NautArch

And documentation needed for grants as well through the gov't that I've applied for @GcL.

GcL

@NautArch Usually equipment, reagents, software, or services. Not for grants. For purchase.

NautArch

@GcL So they are selling things to you? I mean, it's in their interest to make themselves look good. It's in your interest to verify. If you can't, then you 'trust' them, and if the product is good then all is good. But it doesn't mean their numbers were accurate.

When they are incentivized to make themselves look good to be a supplier.

GcL

17:18

@NautArch That's true. I expect they were the best figures they could make them. I expected gross placed order instead of fulfilled or some other technicality. I doubt anyone added a trailing 0 the end of the numbers or listed clients that never actually bought the product.

Thomas Markov

Maybe ill just make a question about it

Yuuki

@doppelgreener IIRC, they used to be one but split a long time ago, originally along ideological lines.

NautArch

@Yuuki sort of like Dwarf/Duergar?

Yuuki

Something like that, I think.

Carcer

yes, gith divided into factions that eventually became githzerai and githyanki, but it's not exactly clear how much biological distinction between them has developed

GcL

17:22

Like those snake people? Yuan-ti ?

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch artificer protector canon is OP early on, I am hoping to see how it works out in later tiers.

Carcer

they don't seem like they'd have had strong evolutionary pressure on them considering that they normally live in places where aging isn't a thing.

Thomas Markov

MToF also lists them as subraces of Gith.

GcL

@Carcer magical warping?

Yuuki

17:39

@GcL an entire race got fant4stic'd?

wouldn't wish that fate on my worst enemy

GcL

17:51

I hear the Warp will do that to you. It's chaos.

Transcript for