TRPG General Chat

goodguy5

2:00 PM

oh! right.

kviiri

Oh yeah, that exactly. (sorry, i didn't realize the question was aimed at me)

John Clifford

So like depending on context ハンバーガータベマス。 could be "I'm eating a hamburger", "she's going to eat a hamburger", "they ate a hamburger"...

BESW

I'm given to understand that Farsi is extremely complex, gender-wise.

John Clifford

I may have fluffed up the katakana there but I'm hoping we don't have any native Japanese speakers in the chat. :P

I think the hiragana equivalent is はんばーがーたべます。

goodguy5

How do you "distinguish" between "Kiv is going to the store" and "kiv is going to a store"?

"Kiv is going to store"
me: "which one?"
....

user15026

2:03 PM

@BESW this is my understanding as well.

John Clifford

I suppose that would be another thing you'd get from context.

user15026

@goodguy5 I don't see how the articles tell me what store

BESW

@Ash I once read that it's literally impossible to make Rumi sufficiently queer in English.

John Clifford

"the store" is kind of an Englishism that by itself means nothing but due to language evolution has come to be understood to mean "whatever your usual local store is".

goodguy5

@Ash not sure of if you're english-speaking natively (and this could be American, rather than Britain).... yes what clifford said

kviiri

2:04 PM

Yeah, I think it's an unusual case for "the" vs "a", not really a general use of the articles

goodguy5

fair point, kv.

kviiri

But say we were discussing a house by the street

user15026

@BESW nods

John Clifford

Though interestingly if I say something to my wife, or she to me, about "the cat", we know exactly which one is being talked about even though we have two of them.

user15026

@JohnClifford right, but it is assuming we both have the same linguistic context for what store that is. Easy in the small town I grew up in, impossible in my urban environment.

goodguy5

2:06 PM

*local grocery store specifically

Where as "a store" can sell anything, not necessarily groceries

kviiri

I can't say just "I own the house" to make it perfectly clear that I own the house in question. If I say "Omistan talon" that might be interpreted as me just saying I own a house. Some house, somewhere. But I could still say "Omistan tuon talon" (I own that house) to resolve the ambiguity

John Clifford

@Ash That's why I specified it's due to language evolution. Obviously this isn't universally-applicable.

user15026

You have to make assumptions, and the articles don't tell you anything except it's time to make those assumptions and hope you are both on the same page.

user15026

@goodguy5 Canadian, English fluent.

John Clifford

I honestly think about 90% of the difficulty in leaning English comes from colloquial usage.

Carcer

2:07 PM

nah

that doesn't help, but we do have a fair amount of inconsistent linguistic rules I think

John Clifford

Leaning English, yes.

I'm not even going to edit that.

BESW

For five or ten years, everyone I knew in Yo'ña meant the same store when they said "the store" in reference to a place in Yo'ña, despite there being probably a dozen corner stores and three major markets.

John Clifford

Let it forever stand as a testament to situational irony.

KorvinStarmast

@kviiri Omistan tuon talon (In Finnish?) Just out of curiosity, would that phrase work for beer, or does the "food/drink" nature of beer require a different phrasing due to context?

user15026

@BESW I learned that me and my husband think of different local stores as "the store"

BESW

2:09 PM

@kviiri Chamoru English distinguishes between "mine" and "my own."

Carcer

we don't have "the store" in the UK

goodguy5

*my husband an I

user15026

And I was like "wait what how is that your choice that one can't be the store because it's less useful than my choice"

Carcer

we've got "the shops"

user15026

@goodguy5 emphatic shrug

KorvinStarmast

2:09 PM

@Ash If you grew up in a steel town like my dad did, there was only one store. The Company Store. Thus, if he told his mother he was going "to the store" there was no question which one he was headed to.

John Clifford

"I'm just away the shops for ma messages."

</scottish>

GcL

I'm entertained by the differences between American and British English.

Nyakouai

As a student, had a lot of trouble with "the house". Which could be my mother house, my student flat, some other place I was crashing at for an internship...

user15026

@KorvinStarmast ah, yes, that would makw a difference if there is only one

Nyakouai

But it's probably due to the stage of life rather than language problems

user15026

2:11 PM

@Nyakouai I'd naturally assume it to be wherever I was currently sleeping but that's my personal choice of determination

Nyakouai

Anyone been through this?

John Clifford

AmE vs BrE is fascinating. I love how some things are always so intuitive, like how we call the sport where we kick a ball with our feet football, and Americans use the same word for the one where they usually carry it in their hands.

KorvinStarmast

@Ash It was a big deal when a hardware store opened up. Apparently, my grandmother (died before I was born) just referred to it as "the hardware" (source, my Aunt). My dad had a part time job there in high school.

kviiri

@KorvinStarmast It would work --- beer is a substance, but we have the concept of "a beer" as well... so "Omistan tuon oluen" would be grammatically correct, although that's a bit stiff (as "I own that beer" is in English). If you want to tell someone it's your beer, the correct way would be to say "Se on minun olueni". (Technically the "minun" is redundant by the "-ni" suffix, but in this context it's a helpful clarification!)

John Clifford

Though sidewalk is more intuitive than pavement, admittedly.

Carcer

2:11 PM

@JohnClifford in fairness the bit where they kick the ball is also quite integral to the american game

user15026

@KorvinStarmast the town I grew up in had a general store that eventually closed, so for us "the store" was a grocery store in a town ten minutes drive away

kviiri

@BESW Interesting, can you provide an example?

KorvinStarmast

@kviiri Thank you kind sir. (and I now know how to say beer in yet another language)

BESW

@Nyakouai Chamoru English distinguishes it as where you're from and where you're staying.

John Clifford

@Carcer True, but I still find it funny. :P

Carcer

2:12 PM

what I'm unsure about is where "soccer" came from

Someone_Evil

@Nyakouai As students we certainly have had issue with the ambiguity of "home" regardless of language(s). I think it's a stage of life thing.

John Clifford

It's a late 19th-century shortening of "Association Football" IIRC.

KorvinStarmast

@Carcer I was told as a kid that it was from "association football" which still makes no sense to me.

goodguy5

Since we're talking about beer and lingual differences......

What are your languages euphemisms for being drunk? (one of my favorite topics among many natives)

BESW

@kviiri If you wake up in the morning and grab a shirt from a basket of the family's clean laundry, that's your shirt for the day. When your sister wears it next week, it's her shirt. But if there's a shirt you bought special and nobody else can wear it without asking permission, that's your own shirt.

John Clifford

2:13 PM

They basically shortened association and added "er" to the end like we do with some other stuff sometimes (like rugger for rugby)

Carcer

@goodguy5 oh come on

Nyakouai

@goodguy5 Being round as a shovel handle

Pierre Cathé

Well it's been a pleasure talking about rpgs with you all, but I've got to go, see you

kviiri

@KorvinStarmast For a slightly more slangy and possibly easier-to-pronounce word, you can go with "kalja" (pronounced roughly as "cull-ya")

Carcer

you know absolutely anything can be used as a euphemism for being drunk in british english if you say it the right way

Pierre Cathé

2:14 PM

@goodguy5 Being buttered

John Clifford

What I love about English is that literally any adjective can be used as a euphemism for inebriation. As Michael McIntyre demonstrated: "I was utterly gazeboed last night!"

KorvinStarmast

@goodguy5 things I learned when thirsty: Pijo and pivo - the Chinese (IIRC, mandarin) word for beer and the Croation word for beer.

kviiri

(originally referred to only small beer, but is commonly used for esp. bulk lagers)

goodguy5

@Nyakouai from my French friend, I learned rounded like a shovel and buttered like a biscuit

kviiri

brb, need to catch a bus

BESW

2:14 PM

@kviiri I've got a dungeon grid mat rolled up in my closet. It's my mat, but it's CJ's own and I'll give it back if he ever wants it.

vicky_molokh

@BESW This reminds me that some American languages distinguish between 'my own' and 'inalinably my own' (like a limb), with some counterintuitive examples like cow milk being considered owned and human milk being considered inalienable.

Nyakouai

@goodguy5 To be drunk as a wine casket

John Clifford

I went out at the weekend and got well and truly trousered.

KorvinStarmast

@kviiri I like that one: kalja. tucks away for future reference Thanks.

vicky_molokh

Or at least IIRC it was one of those. Could be some other part of the world if I'm misremembering.

John Clifford

2:15 PM

(Joking aside, "ratarsed" is a common one in Scotland)

BESW

(Or I'll give the mat to Raycia for her games, but make sure she knows it's CJ's own.)

John Clifford

It was pretty interesting learning where "hair of the dog" came from.

KorvinStarmast

@JohnClifford I met a British officer in Malaysia once who, after we did our military thing, suggested to me that we go "and get wet." To my puzzled look, he explained: "Let's have a few pints."

Nyakouai

Also "to be done (for)". "to be wasted"... there is a lot of not funny one

John Clifford

Yeah, sounds about right Korvin.

Carcer

2:16 PM

@KorvinStarmast I think what you saw there was someone recovering from an accidental innuendo very well

or

GcL

@goodguy5 blotto

Carcer

not accidental

KorvinStarmast

@JohnClifford And he did caution me not to get legless. :)

goodguy5

@GcL I've heard blotto before, but I can't place it.

John Clifford

The concept of "hair of the dog" (drinking more of the same alcohol that made you drunk as a way to combat a hangover) originally comes from "the hair of the dog that bit you", an ancient belief that if you were bitten by a dog with rabies you should take some of its hair and place it in the wound so you wouldn't get ill.

Carcer

2:18 PM

blotto is english slang and in my head I associate it with being wine drunk rather than anything else

KorvinStarmast

@Carcer I do not think so. I later heard a similar bit of slang from another Brit, maybe it was a "service centric" thing (Context was Navy stuff)

John Clifford

Yeah, I mentally fill in blotto in my head with drunk on wine as well.

Carcer

@KorvinStarmast bad joke on my end but yeah, wouldn't surprise me if the services have their own slang

kviiri

@BESW ah, I see

John Clifford

"I've had a bit too much of the vino collapso".

KorvinStarmast

2:19 PM

@Carcer We do on this side of the pond, to be sure. I think I'll wander off and get some pogey bait.

Someone_Evil

"sørpe" which roughly translates to slush

goodguy5

Blotto seems a midwest thing

trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=blotto&geo=US

BESW

@kviiri I guess it's a matter of "what I'm responsible for because I have it now" vs "what people are responsible to me for when they have it."

John Clifford

Do you guys have like a specific term for embarking on a night of drinking? Up here we call it a "sesh" (I'm pretty sure certain places in England use that too)

Carcer

@goodguy5 it's pretty universal in the UK: trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=GB&q=blotto

KorvinStarmast

2:20 PM

@JohnClifford a blow out, or in naval parlance, a drunkex

user15026

@JohnClifford here that means any sort of intoxicant, not just drinking

GcL

@goodguy5 Originally British I think. Chicago seems about right for my family.

KorvinStarmast

(the ex being short for "exercise" such as "missile ex" for a missile exercise and "gun ex" for a gunnery exercise)

John Clifford

Quite possibly that applies here too, but I'm an innocent wee soul who's never really done any of the harder stuff.

Carcer

@JohnClifford people in england might describe a "sesh", yeah - "going out on the lash" I also know used

John Clifford

2:21 PM

Yeah, I've heard that one before.

BESW

@goodguy5 In Chamoru it's balatsu, and I'm positive that's a euphemism because that's how Chamoru rolls, but I don't know what it is.

KorvinStarmast

I also recall a contextual use of "soire" (sorry, it's a borrowed French term) that implies a night on the town that is over the top. Not sure if that is current usage, I only recall it in some east coast/mid atlantic conversations.

John Clifford

Idioms in other languages fascinate me as well.

Carcer

soiree for going out? That's weird

a soiree as I understand it implies a party held at someone's house

John Clifford

I tend to associate soiree with a more upmarket or posher event.

Carcer

2:23 PM

yeah, it's posh lingo

KorvinStarmast

@Carcer Yeah, I think it is short for "night on the town" and soir is night in French ... maybe its origin is New Orleans? No idea.

Carcer

one might say they're having a little soiree this evening

John Clifford

A night on the sauce is another one I've heard before

...humans have a worrying number of ways to describe willingly poisoning their livers.

user15026

@Carcer That always feels like a fussy thing with like canapés and fancy dress

Nyakouai

@KorvinStarmast Still the case in French. Also, we do not mind, you took a handful of our words (by force) we took a lot of yours (by force also)

Carcer

2:24 PM

a night on the sauce is a new expression to me

but I am familiar with describing someone as being on the sauce to mean they have been drinking heavily

KorvinStarmast

@Nyakouai The French force fed French in to English. William the Conquerer, 1066, and all that. (And the Angevin Empire, etc)

Carcer

yeah but we took their vowels on purpose

KorvinStarmast

There is "a souse" and "one on the sauce" I wonder if they are related slang.

John Clifford

They may take our vowels...

Nyakouai

@KorvinStarmast Yup. I live 50 minutes away from the Norman castle of Guillaume so trust me, we visited it quite a lot in school

kviiri

2:25 PM

Being on the Sousa. Pomp-domp-Pomp-domp.

KorvinStarmast

@Carcer Well, when you learn German, you go broke by having to always buy a vowel ...

John Clifford

Sousaphone?

GcL

@Nyakouai I was always very annoyed having to type "courrier electronique" instead of "email" for some of the filings with French companies. Apparently, there's actually a grammar police there.

kviiri

Courier electronique sounds hilariously French <3

KorvinStarmast

@Nyakouai hehe, cool. Just got through yet another book by Asbridge. He covers the Angevins (Henry II and Richard I in particular) in great detail.

user15026

2:26 PM

@kviiri I feel like that's when one gets drunk during Oktoberfest or summat like that when there is like all sorts of horn music about

Carcer

France does have that organisation which is legally enshrined as the arbitrator of the french language, yes

BESW

Gvprtskvni - how is this even a word, Georgian!?

►

Nyakouai

@GcL Tf? If someone were to say "courrier électronique" to me, I'd assume they still use last century idioms, and thus probably start with a bit of a prejudice on their technical skill...

John Clifford

One thing I like about German is how you can basically just compound words infinitely.

Carcer

a bunch of grumpy old anglo-saxon-terms who get aggravated about the concept of gender neutral words, as I recall

GcL

2:27 PM

@kviiri Only for some of the documents that were getting filed with a government agency. Everyone else seemed not to care too much.

@Carcer L'académie Française, yeah. But we rarely heed their ruling...

Some would say it's because we're revolutionnarists... Other because we can't speak our own language

kviiri

@JohnClifford We do that too! (And suffixes stack almost unboundedly too)

Carcer

@Nyakouai apparently I did remember name properly (at least sans accents) but I was afraid to attempt without looking it up

GcL

@Nyakouai I didn't even know it was a thing... then found out it apparently has a terminal grip on some bureaucratic processes that are obligate for shipping stuff.

Nyakouai

2:28 PM

(revolutionnaries? What's the proper term?)

KorvinStarmast

@JohnClifford I speak enough German to get that. Thanks! Sending to my sister for her amusement.

Carcer

revolutionaries

Nyakouai

Thanks

goodguy5

@BESW I'm not so sure. it seems the same word for dizzy/motionsick

GcL

@Nyakouai Merry-go-rounds /S

Nyakouai

2:29 PM

Also noticed I added a second "n" out of habit :P

GcL

Sometimes you need extra N's

Good to just tack them on now and again so they're within easy reach.

Nyakouai

And a few r, s, t, l and e

Cause you never know

Carcer

it's better to have them and not need them than need them and not have them, that's what I always say

KorvinStarmast

@Ash It was odd to see "oktoberfest or summat" which my brain then reworked as "oktoberfest oder etwas" (they mean roughly the same)

kviiri

One of my favorite linguistic things is how roller coasters are known, in many European languages with only a few exceptions, as "Russian mountains". But in Russia, they're "American mountains".

John Clifford

2:32 PM

In other news, there's a new asdfmovie!

Nyakouai

@kviiri Want to speak about the turkey?

kviiri

@Nyakouai As in, the bird?

Yes please

Nyakouai

For us, it's a "Dinde" as in "d'Inde" (from India)

And there isn't a single country that can agree on the origin of the bird

(We mostly all agree that is is very edible, though)

kviiri

Hm, for us it's "kalkkuna" and I never really thought of its origin. It might well be derived from Kolkata.

Carcer

I had cause to look up the jerusalem artichoke earlier today, and was delighted to note that it is neither from anywhere near jerusalem nor is it, in fact, an artichoke

BESW

2:34 PM

@goodguy5 That would make it idiomatic with English euphemisms like "tipsy."

kviiri

Hm, apparently it's from Dutch (through Swedish) and originally means "From Calicut"

user15026

@BESW okay, that was...intense.

kviiri

@Carcer Oh man, if it had a third component to its name it'd make a good Voltaire joke

Nyakouai

@kviiri And the plot thickens

user15026

@kviiri when I was learning Russian, I discovered this and it made me laugh

BESW

2:36 PM

But bulåchu pretty much always means drunk, and you add another word to specify other things, like bulåchon tåsi for seasickness. So if anything, it's the other way around? "Sea-drunk"? I'll have to ask my friends.

I'd probably know if I ever got bulåchon myself.

Someone_Evil

@kviiri "Berg- og dalbane" meaning "Hill and vally track"

user15026

Having been both drunk and sea sick, theyre very similar

user15026

(at least for me, and I will add air sick as well to the list of things)

kviiri

There's a town in Finland, Jyväskylä, that's occasionally referred to as the "Athens of Finland". I always assumed it was because it has a prominent education scene. But there turned out to be more to it!

Nyakouai

Every noun in Sweden, Finnish and Norwegian sounds like it come from a fantasy setting to me, love that...

KorvinStarmast

2:38 PM

@kviiri did they serve rakki? (Oh man, my poor brain cells, 20 years ago ... )

Nyakouai

(Allow me to digress: do you have any foreign language that sounds particularly good to you? Speaking it or not?)

kviiri

There lived a guy in the 1800's called Wolmar Schildt who was a language enthusiast and was inventing new words for concepts that lacked Finnish words that far, such as "tiede" (science) and "taide" (art). A friend of his (E. Lönnrot, also a prominent language reformer) pointed out to him that now he lives in "The Athens of Finland, the birthplace of tiede and taide"

@KorvinStarmast Heavens, I'm having flashbacks... anise-flavored liquors are so vile to me :D

@Someone_Evil for us, vuoristorata, "mountain range track"

Nyakouai

@kviiri rakki is anis? Aren't all anise-flavored liquors extremely hard?

KorvinStarmast

@kviiri that's ouzo, not rakki

Yuuki

@kviiri Anise is very... intense.

KorvinStarmast

2:41 PM

@Nyakouai I like Italian and Spanish, but I prefer Italian since it seems that you sing it while with Spanish you tend to bit the words off . (My impression in learning a bit of both)

kviiri

Huh... maybe I'm confusing it with something else then

Ooh oh. I see

Turkish "raki" indeed is anise flavored

GcL

@Nyakouai Hard to drink! But no, you can have anise flavored ciders/wines/liquor etc

goodguy5

@BESW (trying to) say it out loud makes me realize that it's awfully similar sounding to boracho

Could be a common root

GcL

Around here, you can have any flavor IPA.

kviiri

That's the one I've had. A former colleague of mine brought it to work once and it was terrible

Nyakouai

2:42 PM

Ouzo is Fin... okay okay, I'm lost, time out!
So, my greek friend, who studied in Finland, compared the french pastis (anis liquor) to Ouzo with another greek. Assumed it was also greek. It's finnish?
As we would say in french, "J'en perds mon latin"

(I'm very confused rn!)

goodguy5

I'VE BEEN TRYING TO FIND A GARLIC BEER FOR YEARS (caps intentional)

KorvinStarmast

@kviiri No, you are correct. I didn't realize that raki was also anise based. (I was equating in my brain both Raki and grappa, the Italian equivalent)

Nyakouai

So, ouzo, raki, grappa, pastis... Can we stop making alcohol out of anis?

Someone_Evil

@BESW Which language are you on about? (Can I just say how startling it is to see what looks like 'å' outside of norwegian..)

BESW

@Someone_Evil Chamoru, the Indigenous language of the Mariana Islands.

KorvinStarmast

2:44 PM

Hmm, now I am confused. I thought it was all grapes? Raki Comes From Grapes Simply put, Raki comes from byproducts created from the wine making process. After the grapes are pressed and the juice is stored so that it can begin fermenting, there's a lot of leftover plant material. Greeks are resourceful people and they don't let anything go to waste From a web based question and answer thing ..???? now I am confused

goodguy5

@Someone_Evil Guam.... Chamorro, I think?

kviiri

Alcohol is confusing

KorvinStarmast

@kviiri heh, I saw what you did there. Sly. That made me grin. :)

kviiri

:)

Yuuki

@goodguy5 I suppose I could try making a garlic liqueur.

goodguy5

2:45 PM

Please do

John Clifford

I love how this chat only has two speeds: "absolutely nobody talking" and "messages flying in so fast it's really hard to keep up".

goodguy5

I am The Garlic King, afterall.

Nyakouai

@Yuuki Sounds like a Transilvanian drink

KorvinStarmast

@JohnClifford manic depressive is us....

kviiri

I was going to say that we don't have any particularly prominent national beverages; jaloviina is cut and sweetened cognac and Koskenkorva is a pretty standard vodka but I don't know why anyone would have either of those... but then I remembered that we have Napue Gin!

And well, salmiac flavored Koskenkorva is a timeless classic for when alcohol or salmiac alone don't nauseate you enough

Nyakouai

2:47 PM

takes notes for future trip

kviiri

Jaloviina is a student culture classic, there's a particular song associated with it that is sung as a bottle is passed around in the sauna. The song ends when the bottle is empty. (You are allowed to skip)

Nyakouai

@kviiri I'm no expert, but aren't alcohol and heat a bad mix?

goodguy5

99 bottles of Jaloviina

BESW

@Nyakouai It's probably just me, but although it's not my faith the Chamoru rosary is very moving.

John Clifford

Heh, national beverages.

Yuuki

2:50 PM

@Nyakouai Depends on the kind of alcohol?

John Clifford

laughs in Buckfast

kviiri

@Nyakouai Not bad bad, but yes, there are some elevated risks associated with heavy drinking in the sauna.

Yuuki

Unless you mean mixing in a different way.

John Clifford

In this part of Scotland the stereotypical alcoholic drink is tonic wine.

It's just as horrific as it sounds. And sooooo sticky.

Yuuki

Most/some (not all) sake is meant to be consumed hot.

kviiri

2:51 PM

Usually the round of jallu passed around isn't enough to seriously inebriate anyone, but ofc some people will overcommit :/

BESW

(I also know a few of my own faith's prayers in Chamoru but I don't think they're on YouTube.)

@BESW thanks for that link, will have a listen when I have some quiet time

kviiri

The Jaloviina song, for those interested

Nyakouai

Any asians in the chat? Is there any drinking culture among youth over there?

(Cause all asian-originated people I know - mostly my family - have some trouble holding their liquor)

(But it may be just us being lightweight - though the tendency seems really well spread...)

kviiri

2:59 PM

I think there's some rough patterns with alcohol dehydrogenase enzyme production but I don't really know for sure

Nyakouai

Roughly 50% of people living in south-eastern Asia do not have the enzyme required for the second transformation of alcohol

(But that still let 50% of the population able to drink)

BESW

> To manifest its extreme and growing popularity among the Filipino youths, last year’s beer festival ran for 3 months—from September to November.
https://www.hri.global/files/2010/05/02/Presentation_23rd_M10_Labajo.pdf

kviiri

bee, beer, beest.

goodguy5

@Nyakouai is that related to the red face thing?

Nyakouai

@goodguy5 From what I remember (not an expert on the subject), ethanol is considered toxic by the human body. So you break it down with a first enzyme in another molecule... which is even more toxic. So you quickly break it down into a third molecule using a second enzyme, which is neutral and not dangerous

goodguy5

3:05 PM

classic bodies doing dumb things.

Nyakouai

Thing is, if you don't have that second enzyme, you just metabolize poison, and so you get inebriated, then really sick

And then you puke as a last resort mean to flush out what's harmful

So if red face is caused by the "alcohol poisonning" then I suppose asians would show signs quicker than average (but not certain at all, would need to research and back that up. Just an educated guess here)

goodguy5

mydr.com.au/gastrointestinal-health/liver-and-alcohol-breakdown

BESW

Alcohol flush reaction

Alcohol flush reaction is a condition in which a person develops flushes or blotches associated with erythema on the face, neck, shoulders, and in some cases, the entire body after consuming alcoholic beverages. The reaction is the result of an accumulation of acetaldehyde, a metabolic byproduct of the catabolic metabolism of alcohol, and is caused by an aldehyde dehydrogenase 2 deficiency.This syndrome has been associated with an increased risk of esophageal cancer in those who drink. It has also been associated with lower than average rates of alcoholism, possibly due to its association with...

Nyakouai

Won't click those links at work, but I guess this answer the question :P

I got to run, have fun

Yuuki

@Nyakouai There's a pretty heavy drinking culture in China, not particularly a youth thing.

John Clifford

3:10 PM

Once you've seen one large hammer, you've seen a maul.

goodguy5

ha

Carcer

@Yuuki I am hardly an expert but I get the impression that Japan is similar, or at least the stereotype of the salaryman is

Yuuki

@Carcer For similar reasons, I imagine. I know that in Japan, workplace hierarchy is very rigid and after-work drinking is a way for lower-rung employees to either talk to or provide feedback to their superiors, something that's culturally forbidden in the regular workplace.

As for China, there's a lot of drinking involved in business meetings.

IIRC, there's something of a saying that nothing business-related is even started until a bottle of Moutai (a regional high-proof liquor) is finished.

Carcer

sounds like a great place to be a non-drinker

Yuuki

It's bizarre that there's so much drinking given the predisposition towards alcohol flush reaction.

Smoking is another thing that's rampant in China.

Carcer

3:22 PM

I mean, humanity as a whole also has a predilection for eating food that we find actively painful for fun, so

one could grimly jest that in a lot of chinese population centres smoking the deathsticks is just icing on the general air pollution

Derpy

John Clifford

It's not often I see someone who is specifically honest about being too lazy to research their Stack question.

Derpy

@Carcer or that may end you prematurely, see the fogu in the picture above...

Some years ago I read about a pathology that allegedly existed among rats. It caused the rat to be attracted to cats, so it would follow them instead of trying to escape. The unreliable source claimed that the virus damaged the rat brain in a way that made it attracted to danger. And then it claimed that it could spread to humans.

Overall, the article was pretty much an Hollywood stile hoax.... but it would explain a lot of weird behaviors we get every day.

Carcer

@Derpy it sounds like a description of en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasma_gondii

albeit maybe a bit mangled

rats infected with it appear to show a decreased aversion to cats in studies, making them more likely to get caught and eaten by cats and so pass the parasite on to the cat for the next stage of lifecycle

goodguy5

3:37 PM

Some people theorize that people who like cats are affected by the parasite

Carcer

that's a bit more out there

but yes.

it can infect humans and does appear to have behavioural consequences for affected individuals

goodguy5

sometimes maybe

Derpy

@Carcer oh, yes, it was that one. But the description was altered so that the parasite (now turned in a virus by the article - at least they didn't claimed it was a prototype bio-weapon) altered the rat to give it suicide tendency (I WILL GET EATEN BY THIS CAT!!!) and then made the even crazier claim that people who do extreme sports like rock climbing, bungee-jumping and so on... all infected by the virus.

goodguy5

the link isn't as damning as it should be to be considered causal

Carcer

yeah.

Derpy

3:41 PM

to be fair, the wikipedia pages says:

Carcer

or at least what looked like strong links in earlier studies may have transpired to be statistical anomalies and the effects are less pronounced than they might initially appear

Derpy

> Support for this "manipulation hypothesis" stems from studies showing T. gondii-infected rats have a decreased aversion to cat urine

I like cats, but I do not like that scent.....

Carcer

but are you sure that you don't like it as much as everyone else doesn't like it?

John Clifford

I'm willing to drink this kool-aid, it explains why I continue to co-exist with a small furry asshole who thinks my only functions are food dispersal and being a shelf.

Carcer

I have two of them and they're both extremely needed

needy

goodguy5

3:44 PM

Well, also it's more than not liking the scent.

Rats have an instinctual fight or flight response to cat urine.

You and I just have a "man, now I have to clean that up"

John Clifford

My main "present" cat has apparently gotten even more fed up of my inability to cat and has upgraded from leaving the dead rodents on the floor to dropping them on the couch right beside me so that I'll finally get the idea.

Carcer

heh

mine are both indoors so cannot prey on anything more disgusting than the toys we play with

John Clifford

The dog, conversely, has decided that his main role in the house now is rodent cleanup.

Unfortunately he also likes to play with his food.

goodguy5

John Clifford

This has been just as pleasant as it sounds.

Derpy

3:46 PM

@goodguy5 I am more inclined to believe the other theory that the cat actually evolved their meowing to simulate a kid cry.

Yuuki

@Carcer Does it? I thought studies were inconclusive on whether T. gondii affects humans.

goodguy5

I wonder if there's a way to convince cats that you've figure out the mousing thing

like, stop by the pet store. buy a cheap mouse. Throw it at your cat.

A LESSON LEARNED

John Clifford

I'm on the verge of saving one of their kills and going up to him with it in my teeth meowing loudly then dropping it at his feet.

Yuuki

@JohnClifford Pretty sure that's one way to go to a hospital for some kind of mouth infection.

goodguy5

dental dam?

Carcer

3:48 PM

@Yuuki a reading of the very comprehensive wikipedia article indicates that some studies seem to show a pretty strong correlation between infection and certain behaviours/co-ordination but others indicate it may actually be much less significant than those studies indicate

John Clifford

If it gets it through to him that I'm not just a rubbish hunter I'm willing to take one for the team. :P

Yuuki

@goodguy5 Imagine going to the store to buy a dental dam and telling the cashier "I'm training my cat".

goodguy5

noooooooooooooooo

2

Derpy

the best way to recognize a cat owner is to ask them if they know the difference between an house mouse and a sewer rat.....

goodguy5

nooooooooooo

Carcer

3:48 PM

there are people who can't tell the difference between mice and rats?

goodguy5

I also read something to the effect of:

Dogs' brains light up a certain way when they see other dogs, and a different way for humans.

Cats' brains light up the same for each.

Which seems to indicate that cats view us as large, clumsy (and dumb) cats.

Carcer

dogs interact differently with humans than they do with other dogs, but cats interact with humans pretty much like they would with cats, barring of course that we're very big cats with opposable thumbs

goodguy5

Scientist: Cats think you are just a big, stupid cat

Derpy

@Carcer generally, the cat owner only get to see the rat. Because that is what the cat loves to gift you. Simple mice are ignored. The go for the Giant Rat, D&D style. And then set them free in the house

I guess if the cat isn't just trying to make me level up with the lames monster they could find.

Carcer

@Derpy Eh. in my years living with cats I've only ever had one bring in a mouse, once, that I found

Derpy

3:51 PM

Maybe, the cat is really a creature from another plane.

nitsua60

@goodguy5 I don't think a cat would tolerate having their sleep disturbed so often by just a larger, dumb, clumsy cat. I've seen my cat kill a fox and back down a medium-sized dog. I'm pretty sure if push came to shove, he could take me.

Carcer

never saw rats

> I've seen my cat kill a fox

what

Derpy

they think that with enough rats I will finally level up, learn some mage spell and be able to talk with them and send them home.

yep, that must be it.

Carcer

even the largest cat I have ever had I would not give fair odds in an actual deathmatch with one of the local urban foxes

Derpy

> "I have already dropped their hp, kill them so you get the EXP, ye dumb human"

goodguy5

3:53 PM

They're pushing these 1xp dead mice over to you, hoping that "The DM" will see you next to it and think you killed it

My mother in law had this cat that I swear was just a tiny panther.

John Clifford

Wasn't there a study where they found that other than occasionally at kittens humans are the only thing cats meow at?

goodguy5

I went over one day where had gotten out earlier and he had lined up 5 mouse heads in a neat row on the porch.

Carcer

@JohnClifford yeah, cats do vocalise at each other for some things but the stereotypical meow is mostly for getting humans attention

goodguy5

yay! My car is ready! afk.

If you break in while I'm out, please pet my cats; specifically their cute faces

John Clifford

I will boop all the snoots.

goodguy5

4:50 PM

@NautArch What do you mean with that barbarian level question?

Like, how does that effect the question?

NautArch

@goodguy5 Hmm. I had a thought, but even persistent ends at unconscious. i'll remove that bit.

goodguy5

And I'm pretty sure the answer is "it acts exactly like you expect it to"

"You're stable at 0 hp"

If this meeting isn't too much of an attention drain, I'll write up an answer.

NautArch

@goodguy5 medix just put one up

goodguy5

saw that ^_^

means I don't have to

I wish my living room AC would stop freezing up and/or they would call me back about replacing it.

But it's an old (80's) wall-mounted unit, so they have to go through a bunch of trouble to find a new one.

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