TRPG General Chat

Shalvenay

01:27

hey there @MikeQ, you about?

Mike Q

aye

Shalvenay

@MikeQ got a few Qs about the Gestalt game, want me to raise them here, in the Back Room, or over on Discord?

Mike Q

backroom is fine

BESW

I've made it. It generates Table of Star Wars NPCs. It has 1000 Traits to take from and altered Cyberpunk 2020 Lifepath system. So every NPC has a story. It's for upcoming Tachyon Squadron game by @EvilHatOfficial

Tweeted by Breganov on November 18, 2018 at 12:43 AM

Glazius

01:54

...upcoming?

I bought the hardcover at my FLGS.

Or is it, like, the game this poster plans to run next?

BESW

I'm guessing, since it's explicitly Star Wars and it's unlikely Evil Hat has a Star Wars RPG license, that it's homebrew for the Tachyon system.

Glazius

Well, yes, Evil Hat put out Scum and Villainy, which is probably not the sort of thing you have to do if you have a Star Wars license.

Tachyon seems like an odd choice, unless they're leaning heavily into X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter.

BESW

[shrug] One of the official Star Wars RPGs uses the d20 System, while at least Tachyon corresponds to some of the Star Wars narrative experience.

Glazius

I suppose you could also run ground vehicle combat with it, which is a nice gain.

BESW

(And the Star Wars EU was pretty aggressive about colonizing every genre and medium it could possibly get its hands on, regardless of thematic coherence.)

Glazius

02:08

Well, yeah, I'm just saying. Tachyon Squadron gives you a dedicated slant for dogfights. Which is pretty great if you're running a certain focus of Star Wars game, but isn't super useful for genpop.

BESW

True.

Of course, there's a Mouse Guard hack specifically for LotR games about Rangers of the North doing border patrols in Eriador.

In my experience, RPGs benefit more from being pretty narrowly tailored to give a satisfactory experience of a specific kind, than they do when left so broad that they don't quite satisfy anyone.

Glazius

Well, I could see building it out so you pick a character archetype (Jedi, pilot, trooper, scruffy-lookin') and that gets its own slant.

(things you can't do in Tachyon Squadron: lie)

BESW

@Glazius Ah, but can you say things that are "true from a certain point of view?"

Glazius

As a character quirk, sure. But for dramatic purposes it's got no weight, since there's no Deceive.

nitsua60

02:24

Ugh... I've got a question I'd really like to pose but which would be really easy to do so badly. Anyone have ten minutes to help me workshop in the NAB?

Glazius

Sure.

nitsua60

NAB, btw.

Mike Q

02:41

Hey folks, so our friend @EnderLook had some questions about the DM-player relationship, in terms of whether or not it's ok to discuss plans without the DM's knowledge. Anybody have some helpful advice?

in The Back Room: Live Tabletop Games, 9 mins ago, by Ender Look

@MikeQ On our Discord chat we were talking about our Spell slot and Hit Dice and what could we do if we run out of that resources. In one moment of the chatting, I said we should talk in another channel without the DM, because the worst thing a player can do is telling his plans to the DM (He can start to make the counter-plan), and they said me that was meta-gaming. But also is meta-gaming to hear our conversation and make a counter-plant, right?

nitsua60

@MikeQ Stop the game, chat as humans about what everyone's goals are when setting aside time to play D&D, and possibly resume the game?

I mean, let's look at the assumptions baked into there: metagaming is bad, dms and players are adversaries. Ten minutes on each of those topics could make the next weeks/months muuuuuch smoother.

4

BESW

Yeah, those objections are almost meaningless to me because they're coming from such an alien perspective on the nature of RPGs.

Ender Look

@nitsua60 I didn't exactly say that DMs and Players were adversaries, but I find in guide that usually (even if that is wrong) DM are adversaries. I mean, maybe the DM isn't bad, but actually he is controlling all the NPC and monsters which are our enemies.

(Well, NPC aren't always enemies)

nitsua60

@EnderLook No, but you say that the worst thing a player can do is to tell their plans to a GM. That, to me, speaks of a very different player-GM dynamic than I'm usually shooting for.

(Players and GMs can be collaborators at the same time as PCs and monsters/NPCs are foes, IME.)

Ben

Hullo all

Shalvenay

02:51

hey there @Ben, how're things going?

Ben

Yeah, so so. Lol.

Mike Q

And considering that the DM and player seem to have different understandings of the rules, I suspect that trying to surprise the DM would result in more sudden "No you can't do that" responses.

Ben

Had a migraine all weekend so it was a bit of a bust.

Ender Look

@nitsua60 You and people are always twisting my words! I find that on an advices guide so I though it was true. (I am not angry)

@MikeQ Oh, I didn't think in that

Shalvenay

@Ben ow :/

nitsua60

02:52

@EnderLook Sorry--I'm certainly not trying to. Truly sorry, though, that it comes across that way.

Ben

@Shalvenay A little bit haha. But hopefully it's over.

@Shalvenay How about yourself, How have you been?

Shalvenay

hopefully! decided to bring a big fluffy gal to the gestalt game btw, although debating domains for her cleric side if you want to weigh in? (she's a Cuthbertian, debating between Light or Knowledge for that deity)

@Ben fine, fine :)

Ender Look

@nitsua60 I add the statement in a bracket to note that I am not angry, I'm just saying you take very seriously the thing about "the worst thing a player can do is telling his plans to the DM"

nitsua60

@EnderLook I'm reading it as a signifier of a "GM vs. players" tone; perhaps too much so.

BESW

@EnderLook It's a very common bit of "wisdom," and a lot of us have seen it make a LOT of problems when it's taken to heart.

Ender Look

02:56

Side question: I just find on the stat messages about the new PH errata and I found it changes something about the Dwarf. That means I no longer has Throwing Hammer proficiency, instead, now I have Light Hammer?

@BESW Ok

BESW

Same with metagaming: it's literally impossible to NOT metagame, whatever "metagaming" means because it's rarely defined the same way by two different people. So "don't metagame" is usually just "don't do the thing I don't like."

Ben

@Shalvenay Oh, was that the game that @MikeQ wanted to run? I didn't miss it did I?

BESW

Because unless you can somehow simultaneously play a game with rules AND forget that you're playing a game with rules, you've got a bit of metagaming going on.

Shalvenay

@Ben yeah, that's the game MikeQ wants to run, and no you didn't miss it

Ender Look

@BESW My brother made an Excel to calculate which is better, a melee attack, a spell attack or a spell with saving throw given the enemies and your stats....

Ben

02:57

Phew! Lol. I was going to make my characters up, but unfortunately I couldn't really focus

Shalvenay

@BESW yeah, I think part of the factor is that many people tried to drive a wedge between the systematic aspects of TTRP and the narrative aspects

whereas it's much more fruitful to have a system whose in-narrative effects can safely be exposed, if you will

BESW

Sometimes "metagaming" means "gaining a full understanding of the rules and using that mastery to accomplish your goals." Other times it means "Breaking the illusion that characters are independent and reminding me that every decision is made by people at the table."

2

As for not telling the DM your plans... well, I think Dungeon World does a good job of exploding that concept by reminding GMs that we should be "fans of the characters." That means we put them in difficult situations so that they can triumph.

Ben

You may know you rolled a 1 for stealth, but your character does not.

Peter Cooper Jr.

@EnderLook Does your weapons table have a "Throwing hammer" listed? I think it was just that they called the same thing two different names in different places, so they're now just being consistent about its name.

nitsua60

@BESW "Making decisions based on things I think you shouldn't be considering."

BESW

03:06

Don't get me wrong, there are games where keeping secrets from each other at the table is part of the fun. But if you're keeping secrets because you're concerned someone else at the table will take advantage of that to ruin your fun.... run.

Peter Cooper Jr.

@Ben Some might say that your character does have some level of knowledge of how well they're doing at a task. At my table, after rolling a 1 on Stealth, the player might say "I guess <charname> stepped on a twig loudly" or "I sneeze".

But certainly its something different groups handle differently, and have different expectations for.

Shalvenay

@PeterCooperJr. yeah -- there's a narrative behind that nat 1 :P

BESW

The vast majority of games I've played have been made better the more we share our ideas at the table, even if our characters are bitter enemies.

Ender Look

Ok

BESW

But, as folks have said above, it's part of a broader table culture of conversation and collaboration.

Talking about our ideas and plans goes hand-in-hand with talking about our goals and expections, trepidations and inspirations.

And, most importantly, listening to each other and synthesizing our different takes on the game into something that's more than the sum of its parts--and that's often the best way to think of GM's role at the table, as the facilitator and synthesizer.

Ender Look

03:12

Ok, We will keep talking in the main channel.

BESW

@nitsua60 Right! A better way to come at that is "I didn't think of considering that, maybe I should."

Ender Look

Another non-related question: What is the difference between Fate Core and Fate Accelerated? Are there different games? Which one is better? I've done a little google search and it says that Fate Accelerated is "Demo" or smaller version of the game, but if that is true, Why in the Fate website the Fate Accelerated guide is after and not before the Fate Core? Shouldn't the simplified version be first?

BESW

Core and Accelerated are the same game, with complexity dials turned to different settings.

They're completely compatible--I've run Accelerated characters in Core campaigns with no problem at all.

Ender Look

But which one encompasses the another's rules? Core to Accelerate or Accelerate to Core?

BESW

The Core manual explains more about why Fate works the way it does, and talks about how to change the system to meet your own game's needs.

Ender Look

03:18

Ahh

BESW

Accelerated is a quick-start version with a few bits simplified and less explaining about the design logic behind the system.

It wouldn't be accurate to say that Core encompasses Accelerated, though.

Shalvenay

hey there @Hydrothermal, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)

BESW

They're different styles of the same ruleset.

Ender Look

If I read the Core, will I need to read also the Accelerated because they are different points of view of the rules? Can a Fate game take parts from both Fates styles?

BESW

The most obvious difference is that Core characters have skills like Drive and Shoot and Notice ("what are you doing to accomplish your goal?") while Accelerated characters have approaches like Flashy and Quick and Clever ("how are doing things to accomplish your goal?") which makes for very different kinds of gameplay.

Ender Look

03:21

That is quite weird and interesting!

Glazius

If you read Core, Accelerated will make a lot more sense, because Core goes into a lot more in the way of worked examples.

Ender Look

I've read that is possible to make new skills for each game, is that true?

BESW

I think of approaches as "TV logic." The Forceful character is equally good at yelling, smashing, and taking a punch.

@EnderLook Yup! It's one the quickest, most obvious ways to tailor a game to your goals.

Glazius

@EnderLook Not really for Accelerated. For Core... kind of?

Ender Look

I haven't read the whole guide yet, but it seems to me or in Fate there aren't races, class nor backgrounds? It seems that everybody are humans and each person has uniques and customs abilities

Glazius

03:23

Core's skill list is just an attempt at a general-purpose one, you can add and remove skills as they're necessary for different campaigns.

Ender Look

@Glazius I'm reading Core

BESW

@EnderLook Fate Core/Accelerated don't have a setting, so you get to decide if everybody's a human, an elf, a robot, whatever, depending on what setting your group wants to play in.

Glazius

Like Tachyon Squadron, which removes some of the social elements of Core and expands Drive out into four detailed subskills, because it has a detailed dogfighting system.

BESW

Race/class/backgrounds are mechanical inventions of D&D-like games.

In Fate, you just use your aspects to describe the things about your character that you want to be important for the game.

Ender Look

It's a bit difficult to assimilate for me that Fate hasn't setting nor world. Everything is on the fly without a good setting to organice it! (Well, I hope there are official settings)

BESW

03:26

For example, I once ran a game with a Shape-changing android spy who was Seeking purpose beyond my programming but also Badly in need of a tune-up.

Glazius

@EnderLook There are so many settings.

BESW

That same game had an Australian airline stewardess who was Impulsive and mouthy but had A good eye for trouble brewing.

nitsua60

@BESW That's @doppelgreener's profile now, right?

BESW

@EnderLook There are a ton of pre-made settings, many of them free, and Fate Core has guidelines for making your own setting collaboratively at the start of the game.

Ender Look

@BESW I've read your profile, you have played too many stuff... too many.

nitsua60

03:28

Greener's at least 1.5 of those things, I'm pretty sure =)

Ender Look

@BESW I hope it will be possible to make a D&D medieval adventure setting!!!

BESW

@nitsua60 Pre-made Doctor Who characters.

Ender Look

Oh, I've just notice that it's 12:29, I must go to sleep, tomorrow I have school! Bye!

@BESW Doctor who? Does it has 13 regenerations! Can't wait to read that tomorrow

nitsua60

@EnderLook Be well!

(I hope that didn't come across as shouting to someone as they try to go to sleep.)

Ender Look

Ahaha, bye

BESW

03:31

@EnderLook I ran that game two Doctors ago, with the idea that it was a slightly alternate-universe version of the characters so that everyone felt free to make them their own. Each companion is very much like a specific Classic-era companion, and the Doctor is a new Doctor roughly based on the Shalka Doctor.

Check out Grimoire, House of Bards, So The Story Goes, Masters of Umdaar, Loose Threads, Gods and Monsters... none of them are specifically D&D but each of them takes some inspiration from it and other sources to create a new thing. You can pick one you like, or mash together elements to make your own thing.

Ben

On a separate topic, I'm not sure that my network provider knows the concept of a "gift".

"Buy a recharge more expensive than the one you usually get, and we'll double your data! Merry Christmas!"

BESW

This is a GIFt.

Ben

I see what you did there

[respectful applause]

Glazius

Actually, it's pronounced "jift".

Ben

Get out.

:P

Honestly, even if the "original creator" says that's how it's pronounced, they make no sense. Lol.

Where is the "j" sound in "Graphical Interface Format"

nitsua60

03:45

@Ben It's somewhere in the really long neck.

Ben

[Ahem]. Apologies. This is clearly a trigger for me haha

nitsua60

[twiddles thumbs...]

Ben

@nitsua60 Very good haha

nitsua60

=D

BESW

IPA for the new, proposed pronunciation of GIF: ʒaɪf

Tweeted by pbsideachannel on June 4, 2013 at 12:08 AM

Do You Pronounce it GIF or GIF?

►

Ben

03:49

And then there are those that simply wish to end the war... power to the people

BESW

I do recommend the youtube video above; its thesis is "There's some interesting history but the argument is boring and nobody's right anyway."

Ben

Haha

BESW

(And proposes a "zhaif" pronunciation for the same reason that "ghoti" is pronounced" fish.")

Ben

You had my interest, now you have my attention

Lol

nitsua60

04:31

@BESW Definitely pronouncing it "scubba" from now on =)

BESW

@nitsua60 Just don't get it confused with Sclub 7.

Ben

06:12

Has anyone done a blog about "if you don't like the answer, doesn't mean it's wrong"?

It's probably a 1 in a million situation though

BESW

Hah, no, it's a very common attitude in every walk of life.

Ben

True. I feel it's probably a little more relevant here though... lol

Mike Q

06:41

@Ben Check the meta, maybe? We get plenty of questions that are essentially "Tell me that I'm right about this in-game disagreement"

BESW

I imagine that searching Role-playing Games Meta and Meta Stack Exchange for posts on how to vote, will be productive.

Mike Q

There is also the more general problem that, for many of the big-name TTRPGs, there are different expectations and different ways to play. So the more abstract questions (usually a player-DM conflict) could invite very divergent answers that are not objectively false

BESW

Which is, of course, one of the excellent things about RPGs and also one of the failings of the Stack Exchange structure as applied to things it wasn't originally designed for.

Ben

07:01

@MikeQ I have come across it a fair bit on gaming.SE too. "But x, y, and z say something phonetically different"

BESW

07:50

And then there's "My GM won't listen to me but I think he'll listen to strangers on the Internet who say what I tell them to."

trogdor

08:37

lol

I bet that one works,.... ehem, really really well

kviiri

08:49

Yea, i recall seeing a couple of those "Me and my GM are arguing about the rules, I am right am I not?!" questions that got a very well-reasoned answer arguing the opposite and never got accepted (and occasionally, a worse answer that got accepted and agreed with the querent's view)

BESW

Yeah, I'm glad we don't have any way to know the fallout from those.

kviiri

09:44

@MikeQ Regarding this, it's one of the reasons why I like retroactive planning as a mechanic. It cuts down on time spent on preparing for awesomeness (saving more time for awesomeness itself) and automatically prevents the GM for counter-planning things (which can happen "subconsciously" even if the GM didn't intend to ruin everything by it)

BESW

What are some examples of retroactive planning mechanics that you particularly like?

kviiri

@BESW There is one in Apocalypse World that we never used very much because our GM disliked it.

It's also an optional rule, sort of a "suggested addition"

Spend 1 to 3 barter and narrate having spent some jingle on arranging some gear, people or both for the situation at hand. I can't recall exactly what the effects for each outcome were.

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 I played the shape-changing robot, and in a different session, the brigadier at the end of that premades PDF. :)

nitsua60

@doppelgreener Too late--I hacked together a userscript that puts that purple stewardess' cap on your avatar at a jaunty angle =)

kviiri

Anyway, we got to try it a couple of times, but my last Apocalypse World GM was opposed to it on a principle because "I want to see your characters do awesome things, not just tell you did awesome things", which is in my opinion not a very good argument to make and reeks of DnD-ism to me.

doppelgreener

09:57

@nitsua60 I feel stylish!

nitsua60

Hatmas!

Coming early this year!

doppelgreener

Yaaayyyy!

BESW

Ooh?

kviiri

@BESW I also like the Fate idea where you can spend a Fate point to declare a fact, which can be used to plan retroactively (right?). But like many things Fate, I've only read about it, never actually done it in practice

BESW

Yes, that's a common use.

doppelgreener

10:04

@BESW (it's not really, we don't know when it's arriving yet)

(except for me, because I have a jaunty air stewardess hat apparently!)

BESW

@kviiri "Because I'm an Australian airline stewardess, it makes sense that I'd have a jar of marmite in my purse." [offers GM fate point]

kviiri

@BESW :D

Isn't marmite more British and vegemite Australian?

Miniman

@kviiri Nah, they're just brands.

BESW

Yes, that's why it's important she's an airline stewardess--she has ready access to foreign food.

"Because I have A good eye for trouble brewing, I thought this would go badly and brought the brand they like." [spends a Fate point for +2 to negotiating with them]

GM: "Because you're Impulsive and mouthy, you offended them the last time they flew on your airline." [spends a Fate point to increase the difficulty]

As storytellers, the people sitting at the table aren't confined to linear exposition like the characters are.

And then there's Honey Heist, where "you can voluntarily move one point from Bear to Criminal by doing a flashback scene in which you and the other bears plan out the heist over coffee and cigarrettes in the back room of a seedy bar."

It occurs to me that Microscope might be a useful tool for people who are struggling with that part of Fate.

trogdor

10:36

@nitsua60 wait really?

BESW

32 mins ago, by doppelgreener

@BESW (it's not really, we don't know when it's arriving yet)

kviiri

@BESW I think I disliked that mechanic for some reason when we tried it

trogdor

@BESW ah dangit

b_jonas

Hmm, so how does Dimension Door work? It doesn't just allow for a non-flying creature to teleport high up into the air at a random spot, right?

I mean, rpg.stackexchange.com/a/135878/4181 refers to the "Abundant Step" monk class ability, which works like a Dimension Door spell.

BESW

10:53

The 3.5 version? It's got a hidden catch.

In 3.5, dimension door is a teleportation spell, which is a subcategory of the Conjuration school of magic.

And all Conjuration spells are subject to certain limitations. In this case the relephant passage is, "cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space."

"It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it."

doppelgreener

Ignoring for the moment the question of what's a duplicate of what, I Roll To Seduce The Dragon is the best-titled question on the stack, hands-down. — nitsua60 ♦ 14 hours ago

@nitsua60 I briefly misread this as "I Roll To Science The Dragon"

BESW

@doppelgreener Why not both?

doppelgreener

@BESW perfect

b_jonas

11:13

@BESW Ah! I was looking for the general rules about spell ranges, not in the rules about Conjuration spells. Thanks

BESW

@doppelgreener Alternatively....

@b_jonas Yeah, with D&D, it's always a good idea to check the spell types and keywords if something seems like it's missing or weird.

b_jonas

@BESW It didn't seem missing or weird, at least compared to D&D rules in general.

BESW

Fair enough.

kviiri

Ah, way to open a Monday. Turns out my thesis algorithm crashed the computing cluster

weeks of computation time lost :(

(to the users in general, my process was way shorter)

Carcer

well that's always going to be a risk on a shared system where people can run some arbitrary code

b_jonas

11:21

@kviiri Ouch.

kviiri

@Carcer I was even smart and programmed in an output limiter (so instead of just saying "compute instances where n = X" I could ask for only the first 100000 or so)

...and then didn't use it because I didn't know I was in the danger zone yet.

b_jonas

11:36

@kviiri Isn't there some general guideline for that cluster though that you shouldn't have more than a week or two of unsaved data in your programs and expect it to never end, because, say, the UPS isn't so reliable or the cluster sometimes had to be brought down for an upgrade or something?

As in, when someone loses more than a few weeks of computation result, isn't it their own responsibility?

Like, a liability limitation cause.

Carcer

saving state could be prohibitively difficult in many cases

kviiri

@b_jonas Well, this is cluster computing we're talking about

some of those jobs probably were running for weeks

Carcer

it's not a few weeks of results; it's a result which takes a few weeks

kviiri

And I think it's engineered so that nodes can be hotswitched

b_jonas

@kviiri Running for weeks is fine, but some software may be written such that they checkpoint the partial computation results every two hours, and saves it to a disk file, and then the disk file is archived to tape backup every day, or something.

The whole process can run for a very long time if it has to of course.

I don't know, because I'm not working on such clusters. I only write computations that run on high powered consumer PCs or sometimes larger but still consumer level servers. For those, I need to anticipate that the machine can sometimes crash, and I can't have days of unsaved data.

A cluster could be more stable than that.

kviiri

11:48

Well the thing is, it doesn't really matter

Because it's easier still to blame me

BESW

[sad]

b_jonas

@kviiri :-(

Yeah. This is why it's so useful to have a project manager who can moderate between the unrealistic expectations of a client who wants everything they newly think of immediately in their product, and the people like me who work on the project.

kviiri

12:20

On more positive news, seems like I have a new top answer

Doubly nice since I don't really like my now third-best-voted answer that much! (it's not that it's bad, it's just that the question is of relatively academic interest compared to my best and second-best)

b_jonas

12:56

@kviiri rpg.stackexchange.com/a/135695/4181 As DM, how do I deal with PCs that expect everything in the game to be relevant to the story?

goodguy5

13:07

@kviiri It's a pretty good answer.

Anaphory

@kviiri Ouch. I tend to only crash my own computers and lose hours, not weeks, and only of my computation time, not everyone's. Also, it taught me how important it is to output intermediate states that can be used to initialized runs half-way.

kviiri

@goodguy5 Yeah, kinda funny because I thought it would be one of those somewhat controversial ones :D

But yea, even though most of my rep comes from DnD 5e rules expertise I like writing about the art of GM'ing in general way more.

goodguy5

13:25

\-side rant\-

I think to myself 'If you can learn most (if not all) of the properties of a magic item by taking a short rest with it, then why do you need identify?

I search "What's the point of identify" in the SE search bar.
I find nothing helpful.

Fine. "Identify vs Short Rest"

The first thing is "What is the purpose of Identify"

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Carcer

using the SE search bar was your first mistake

just google it

goodguy5

I mean yea, but I was pretty sure I'd seen an SE question on it.

And I was right, but it's dumb that my first search didn't find it.

kviiri

@goodguy5 I was (and still am) rather confused about it. Identify is at least a ritual spell so it doesn't need slots

Identify in general seems a bit like a relic best left to computer games, to be honest.

goodguy5

8

A: What is the purpose of the Identify spell?

You learn more with Identify Both the short rest method and the spell identify say: the character learns the item’s properties, as well as how to use them However, identify also lets you learn: whether it requires Attunement to use, and how many Charges it has, if any. You learn whet...

Carcer

my point is that you should be using google to search stack exchange

if you're not just looking for a particular confluence of tags, google's index of SE content is much better than SE's

goodguy5

13:30

that's true.

what is that <website> <colon> <search> ?

kviiri

@goodguy5 Relating to that answer, it's maybe one of the reasons why I don't get the spell... to me, the idea of having magic items is fiddly enough without needing to bookkeep things relating to their command words or so.

Carcer

@goodguy5 "site:rpg.stackexchange.com what's the point of identify"

goodguy5

@kviiri tbh, I meant to link the accepted answer.

@Carcer ah, yes. that's the one. thank you.

Carcer

@goodguy5 though searching for "5e what's the point of identify" also works. rpg.se content tends to be quite highly indexed.

goodguy5

hrm, I did not include "5e"

I was mostly just annoyed that searching a different term gave me what I wanted originally

kviiri

13:51

@goodguy5 How's life been treating you, otherwise?

nitsua60

@kviiri There was a time when the "figure out what <obviously magical item> does" minigame was rather more (a) expected, (b) fleshed out, and (c) enjoyable. Now, with identify being basically a vestigial remain of that, it just seems like a nuisance.

(This coming from a player who still yearns for read magic to be a thing.)

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Top o the morn! At first blush, my reaction is that this is a LOT of words for what I perceive as a simple issue. It might be a misunderstanding of general game mechanics, but trying to explain all of that AND answer the specific questions seems to muddy the specific question answer.

goodguy5

90% good.

Baby on the way (February). Wife is mostly good (still nauseous, though).

Work is easy enough. My team is being moved to another manager, which has very little direct impact on me.

The new Call of Duty game is real solid.

The most glaring bad thing is my chronic neck and back pain. I'm sure not helped by my profession of desk-jockey

kviiri

@nitsua60 Yeah, it does feel like quite a relic :)

@goodguy5 Congrats on the baby! Your first?

nitsua60

It's almost as abandoned as... [ducks] alignment.

[scurries away]

kviiri

13:56

@nitsua60 You mentioned it, we have to do this. /me wears his Alignment discussion hat.

goodguy5

@kviiri yes! We're very excited.

kviiri

@goodguy5 Great!

nitsua60

@goodguy5 They come with hats and socks. (That's the #1 thing I didn't know about babies until I had one.)

Not many, but more than zero.

goodguy5

haha

noted. thanks

I've read that for the first little bit, they just look like gross aliens.

nitsua60

One of my best pieces of advice: practice (now) swaddling a cat. If you can swaddle a cat, you can swaddle anything.

kviiri

13:59

One of my childhood friends is also having a baby in February, I seriously hope he doesn't ask me to be the baby's godfather (I am among the likely candidates, save for the fact that their family typically picks among themselves, not from friends)

goodguy5

@nitsua60 My cats are bad examples, and I know it. They're the most tolerant beings on the planet.

nitsua60

@goodguy5 Some do, some don't. Two of mine were distinctively non-human on arrival. The third, though...

goodguy5

I frequently "defend the home" with "catgun"

"\*chik-chuk\* This time? It's purrrsonal"

nitsua60

That's her on day 1 on this planet.

kviiri

I mean, I wouldn't mind being a godfather otherwise, except in this case we have rather different views on the "god-" part (he's a Conservative Laestadian)

goodguy5

14:00

@kviiri that sounds made up

kviiri

@nitsua60 squueeee

goodguy5

@nitsua60 *audible high pitch noise of glee*

nitsua60

She's still gorgeous, eight years later. Which is great. And she knows it. Which isn't always great.

kviiri

@goodguy5 It's this Christian revival movement from the 1800's that has a strong base of support in Finland and Sweden, as well as an American branch founded by immigrants from herewards

They're mostly known for having lots of babies, teetotalism, congregating together once per Summer and opposing some forms of entertainment like the TV, but as usual, the popular perception of them is far more extreme than the reality of their everyday life

goodguy5

yup. made up. like I said.

kviiri

14:05

:)

goodguy5

(unless that falls under one of our "be nice" clauses, in which case, I apologize for my insensitivity.)

kviiri

That said, this friend of mine and his new family is a bunch of sweet, charitable people. I liked hanging out with them, but... well, I don't think I'd be a good person to be a godfather since they're usually expected to provide some religious guidance to the child and my views aren't exactly compatible with that in this case

nitsua60

@kviiri On the other hand, presumably they know your beliefs but have asked you anyway?

goodguy5

^ good point

kviiri

@nitsua60 (nah, they haven't asked, I'm just a bit spooked they will since I was his bestman) The thing is, Laestadianism is (on paper, at least) compatible with the mainstream Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland, which is a very... err, permissive organization in a sense.

The church has tried to maintain the bit where everyone is a member by default and generally avoids taking strong stances. That has let hippies like me hang on for quite long :)

nitsua60

14:10

Aah. Gotcha.

"Evangelical Lutheran" sure is a funny-looking phrase to these American eyes =)

kviiri

How come? (you got me genuinely curious!)

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch I find that using an example clears up a lot of questions, and I find that a lot of people do not understand the action economy in 5e, which is part of why the questions come up in the first place. I cleaned out some of it, but till not mess with it further. Part of that answer is in an email to our newest player, who used spiritual weapon on Thursday. My brother, the DM, doesn't understand how it works either.

nitsua60

@kviiri I generally associate "Lutheran" with rather reserved, quiet, Wisconsinites and Minnesotans. And "Evangelical" with outgoing, proselytizing, megachurching mostly-Southerners.

kviiri

@nitsua60 Aah, gotcha

nitsua60

Those may not be fair pigeonholes to have placed people in, but it's the impression I've got from my Northeastern Catholic perspective.

KorvinStarmast

14:16

@nitsua60 Meeting Evangelical Catholics is about as jarring, until one gets used to it.

kviiri

Yea, I can believe the religious market in America is quite a lot more diverse than in here

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast that's totally fine - and not a bad call. Just saying that I think that may be why you're getting downvotes. I had a hard time parsing what you were trying to say.

I didn't vote, though.

goodguy5

@kviiri yea, it's like walking into a baskin robins, we got so many flavors

@NautArch out of context comment that we can use to ridicule you.

KorvinStarmast

@kviiri Very well put. Market indeed. :) @NautArch I cleaned it up a bit, and tried to put more "Bottom line up front"

nitsua60

@KorvinStarmast I can see that. Since my brain's grinding gears trying to synthesize it. But it may just be a catch-all term for various "flavors" of Catholicism that I'm perfectly familiar with?

NautArch

14:19

@goodguy5 heh :P

nitsua60

Having interacted with Focolare to Opus Dei to 3rd-order Franciscans to a professor whose name appears on the title page of the NAB, there sure are lots of "types" of Catholics out there.

(What a stupid thing to say about a group of a billion people. Of course there are plenty of variations.)

goodguy5

List of Christian denominations by number of members

This is a list of Christian denominations by number of members. It is inevitably partial and generally based on claims by the denominations themselves. The numbers should therefore be considered approximate and the article an ongoing work-in-progress. The list includes the Catholic Church including the Eastern Catholic Churches; all the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox churches with some recognition and their offshoots; Protestant denominations with at least 0.2 million members; the provinces of the Anglican Communion with at least 0.2 million members; all the other Christian branches with...

nitsua60

I like adherents.com for this sort of thing.

goodguy5

well, then you should have linked it.

Also, I don't know what that is.

NautArch

@goodguy5 It's a website

nitsua60

14:24

@goodguy5 Just a guy who collects high-quality statistics on religious adherence. One of these things that was someone's pet project before WP even existed =)

kviiri

I've met maybe three Catholics here in Finland. I don't know the specifics but I think the centuries under Lutheran Sweden and Orthodox Russia came with a lot of persecution.

nitsua60

(Which you can probably tell from site design/layout. It's practically got <marquee></marquee> tags hanging around.)

@kviiri There's probably more Catholics than that in this room =)

kviiri

@nitsua60 Quite likely :)

Rubiksmoose

@KorvinStarmast Can I get a link?

Yuuki

@nitsua60 As someone who lives in close proximity to two pretty sizable Evangelical churches, you're not wrong.

nitsua60

14:28

@Yuuki Either of them Lutheran also? (he he he)

Yuuki

And as someone who has the misfortune to live in the same city as Joel Osteen...

goodguy5

I just realized what my first dad joke is going to be.

nitsua60

@goodguy5 Do tell!

goodguy5

\*baby is born\*
\*wife is holding baby\*
I say to dr. "I was told it was important to get shots early"
\*dr starts to speak as I pull out a flask and shot glass\*
\*grin maniacally at dr\*

Yuuki

That reminds of another funny but sad dad joke.

goodguy5

14:31

dad jokes can't be sad. it's a rule

KorvinStarmast

@kviiri It was originally in TTRPG, I seem to recall first using it in 1e AD&D in about 1979.

Yuuki

> *baby is born*
> *Doctor hands baby to dad*
> Doctor: I'm sorry, sir, but she didn't make it.
> *Dad hands baby back to doctor*
> Dad: Please, give me the one my wife made.

goodguy5

ah. fair

NautArch

@goodguy5 Not sure If I'd mentioned this before, but from experience it's worth asking your wife (and doc) if you can deliver the baby.

goodguy5

@NautArch That sounds terrifying.

Yuuki

14:32

@NautArch Why would you do that? I'm pretty sure the baby needs that liver.

kviiri

@KorvinStarmast Yea sure, I think I expressed myself a bit unclearly there (the "relic" and "best left to computer games" are two separate assessments) :)

goodguy5

I'm not even sure I'm qualified to hold the damned thing.

@Yuuki *heh*

NautArch

@goodguy5 It's not. It's amazing. I did it with my 2nd kid and I wished I had done it both times.

@Yuuki Have to keep @KorvinStarmast away with his chianti and fava beans.

goodguy5

hrm.... I'll talk to the wiffle about it

KorvinStarmast

@nitsua60 Yeah. The Charismatic movement from the 60's / 70's still has some residual effect, and I see it in various lay ministries and lay led groups. Changes the perception of the RCC, to be sure.

NautArch

14:36

For me, it was an instant bond. Your wife gets to hold them, breast feed (if she's doing that), etc. They have a clear pathway to that physical bond. As dad's, we're kinda 2nd fiddle for a bit.

nitsua60

@KorvinStarmast It's funny how easily one can date a parish's founding by the church's architecture.

KorvinStarmast

@Rubiksmoose to what?

nitsua60

@NautArch (ten years in, playing fifth fiddle at this point...)

=)

goodguy5

@nitsua60 do you want warhammer 40k? because this is how you get warhammer 40k

NautArch

@nitsua60 hahah, at least you're still on stage!

Rubiksmoose

14:38

@KorvinStarmast To your spiritual weapon answer

KorvinStarmast

@Rubiksmoose here it be

Rubiksmoose

@KorvinStarmast thanks!

Ender Look

@BESW Ok, thanks

KorvinStarmast

OK, for those who played Diablo I, here is some funny.

DiabLoL 1 Ep 0 Prelude [Series Premier Date Announcement]

►

Carbot Animations is apparently doing a series.

Yuuki

Oh man, not sure if that's really poor or really perfect timing to start a Diablo series.

KorvinStarmast

14:53

@Yuuki are you referring to the hate for Blizzard over the mobile Diablo 2.5 game?

kviiri

I haven't really been watching that show, but the amount of bile flying around impresses me in a bad way

KorvinStarmast

@kviiri Which show?

@nitsua60 Yeah, the church I got married in was built in the 60's 70's, as some of the rules were loosening up. It's round.

goodguy5

I'm happy with my answer's content, but not with it's presentation.

Could I crowdsource a few thoughts?

https://rpg.stackexchange.com/a/135892/34716

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