TRPG General Chat

12:04 AM

Sup yall

@Ben That's quite difficult to define, but generally we would consider the direction opposite to the direction of the strongest gravity pull to be "up".

Shalvenay

hey there @Ben, how're things going?

Ben

@Miniman Quite profound

@Shalvenay Not too bad... I've been pulled into the world of Bloodborne Lore haha

Shalvenay

heheh

alright here, although still scratching my head at how some people refuse to understand how Stacks work

Ben

12:20 AM

@Shalvenay You get two main types of users

"Help me fix it": These users are often used to forums, where they can ignore everything else, post that "I have a problem", and wait for people to respond directly to them, rather than bothering to actually read and find a solution themselves. These are often the ones that respond to questions asking to define the problem, with "I dunno, fix it"

They also do not seem to understand that an "Answer" is not an invitation to ask another question

Shalvenay

@Ben they also are quite bad at paying attention to comments asking for more info

Ben

Then, you have the "I'm new here" user: These users appear apologetic when they might not meet the requirements the site has in place. Generally much better, but can still go in two directions - either they actually fix the problems, and become members of the stack, and actually contribute, or just decide "nah, too hard, I'll just go back to the forums where there's no rules"

Shalvenay

@Ben yeah, once they get past any initial helmet-fires from a help dogpile, they can do OK

Ben

You do get other users, but those are the main two I've experienced

Shalvenay

you get some odd folks in like the 100-few thousand rep band as well

occasionally users just sort of fizzle out there and lose track of the program (you also get users that plateau in that range due to intermittent activity but that's OK)

those are the folks who really get into scraps on Meta and stuff

BESW

12:38 AM

Phrase of the day: "I was a little confused, but then I realized I could look it up."

Ben

@BESW what's this in reference to?

BESW

Oh, somebody's being snarky about a guy abusing the word auteur.

Ben

@Shalvenay That reminds me of a user over on Arqade (that has since left/been removed). One user, Frank, is what some people might call brutal, but he's just straight-forward and to the point (using him as a reference). Any way, this other user was way more critical of anything anyone provided. Almost any question/answer he commented on was followed by a (usually) long argument about the validity of an answer, or the usefulness of a queation.

They likely left because that just seems like way too much efoort

@BESW [googles]

@BESW Ah. yes. quite

Adeptus

1:34 AM

In today's episode of Adeptus vs 3.5 character optimisation... I'm thinking of trying to build a Druid-variant (Deadly Hunter & Druidic Avenger) / Deepwarden / Fist of the Forest / Bear Warrior... End result, a nature-focused rager with some spellcasting. Some of the abilities look like they'll work together well, not sure if they all will.

Ben

@Adeptus Yup. My brain is definitely on the fritz. I can't shake the fact that sounds like a Power Ranger for some reason

Miniman

@Adeptus It's certainly flavourful.

Adeptus

I've seen builds using those PrCs on a Barbarian base, but was basically wondering how well the Druid-with-rage variant would work in its place. Also gets Monk's unarmored AC (plus 2x Con to AC from the PrCs), and 2x Fast Movement

Miniman

I guess what it comes down to is trading some BAB and some hitpoints for a bit of spellcasting.

Ah, you also lose Pounce, which is awkward.

Adeptus

1:49 AM

From spiritual totem? Yeah... unless you can convince the DM that "identical to the Barbarian ability" means that it can be traded in for the same ACFs as Barbarian

Interestingly, the 2 druid variants in UA replace different features, so can be taken together... one gives Fast Movement as Barbarian, the other gives Fast Movement as Monk (among other things)

Miniman

I think it just exemplifies the nature of the Druid - they have three major class features they can trade away.

Adeptus

@Miniman Also unarmored AC as Monk, favored enemy & track as Ranger

Miniman

@Adeptus True, although there's an argument to be made about MAD with the Monk AC.

Adeptus

You need some wis for the druid spellcasting anyway

Ben

@Adeptus Ok... maybe not as frazzled as I though... powerrangers.wikia.com/wiki/…

Not sure how "Stealth god" lines up with "bear" or "Stomp Attack that generates earthquakes strong enough to knock giant yokai off their feet or even to crack the earth open" though

@shalvenay here's an example of your conundrum

Shalvenay

2:11 AM

@Ben yeah, the user in question is making some attempt to respond to requests for elaboration at least, though

I have what probably is the opposite problem though:

where I'll take the time to write up a reasonably sound question and it will just sit there unloved for all time

or get like a burst of comments and then basically nothing

Ben

@Shalvenay Such as?

Shalvenay

0

Q: What smoke control requirements are placed on duplex/townhouse party walls?

The IRC requires a one-hour rated fire separation between the dwelling units of a duplex in R302.3. Likewise, it requires a two-hour rated fire separation between each dwelling unit in a townhouse in R302.2. However, one complaint that I've heard about these party walls (multiple times even, bot...

4

Q: Type AC cable -- why is it still made/used?

Old-style armored cable (Type AC) is still made and widely distributed. Why is this, given that type MC cable is more versatile (more conductor configurations, more Code-permitted applications) than type AC cable by far, and the new type MCI-A products coming out eliminate any edge AC may have h...

electrical wiring

1

Q: Independent circuits on a common trip CB

Is it permissible under the 2014 NEC to feed two independent 120VAC branch circuits from a common trip (aka double pole) circuit breaker? The circuits do not share a neutral wire, and are ordinary 20A branch circuits otherwise.

electrical code-compliance nec

BESW

@Ben If it were D&D, the reason would probably be "yeah, I used to be a bear god, but then I killed an earthquake god and a stealth god and now I've got their portfolios too."

Shalvenay

1

Q: Bus Pirate binary protocol gets stuck in BBIO mode (or an invalid state) after a bulk transfer operation

I have a v.3a (SFE) Bus Pirate with v6.1 firmware, and am trying to make it talk binary SPI mode (to an AT89LP51, btw). Things start off OK, until I try to perform a bulk transfer operation (using pyBusPirateLite's bulk_trans() function). Afterwards, the Bus Pirate gets stuck in binary bitbang ...

spi bus-pirate

Ben

@BESW Were you at my last job interview, by any chance?

BESW

2:20 AM

Not that anyone can prove.

Shalvenay

1

Q: Are well-known IR AAMs 'compatible' with aircraft from other countries?

The AA-2 Atoll was a Russian reverse-engineered clone of the AIM-9B Sidewinder. There are some sources that indicate, with varying degrees of veracity, that it was a good enough clone that the two could be used with the other side's aircraft (i.e. early MiGs launching Sidewinders and Western air...

military avionics missiles

@Ben -- yeah, those are the handful of questions I have that stand out to me as getting nil or near-nil attention

and actually, a few more:

3

Q: Simulating a thermopile on the bench -- is this a reasonable/reasonably accurate way to do it?

Primer Most people know about 24V HVAC control systems, as that's what's commonly found on furnaces, heat pumps, central air conditioners, and other such systems. If you have electric unit or radiant heat, you may have seen line-voltage thermostats as well that run directly on mains voltage. ...

voltage-regulator thermocouple testbench

3

Q: AT89LP51ED2 SPI ISP -- First attempt to enter ISP mode after reset yields wrong data back, but second attempt works

I have a board using an AT89LP51ED2 from Atmel -- this is an 8051-derivative with on-board Flash program memory and a SPI ISP interface, which I am using my Bus Pirate to drive (30kHz speed, pullups ON and wired to the board Vcc, default SPI settings otherwise, the AUX pin driving /RESET). The I...

spi debugging 8051 isp

Ben

@Shalvenay From a general scroll over these questions, they are very specific scenarios.

Shalvenay

and one that managed to get just enough, but I was shocked it didn't get more folks sniffing around:

2

Q: 8051 serial routine returns all 1s despite apparently valid data being on the bus

So, I am trying to receive synchronous serial data from a DS1306 in 3-wire mode using mode 0 of my AT89LP51ED2's USART. However, my serial read routine is returning all 1s instead of valid data, even though valid data appears to be on the serial bus according to what I see on my oscilloscope, th...

microcontroller uart debugging 8051 rtc

Ben

They would generally require an expert (or someone willing to spend the effort doing the research)

Shalvenay

@Ben I agree that the questions require significant expertise to answer (part of the reason I'm asking them) but it seems like people are very reluctant with upvoting the question for that matter -- is there something wrong with the question itself besides being relatively specific?

Ben

2:28 AM

@Shalvenay I would say that may be due to the very technical information you have in the questions. Like your AC cable question - there isn't much in it that I would see as "technical information". It's just "why are they using an AC Cable?"

Whereas the others have all sorts of anagrams and serial number-like strings of text. Personally, When I see these types of things, if I don't know what they are as soon as I read them, I lose interest, because I don't know what the question is on about anymore

Shalvenay

hey there @nitsua60

Ben

Like if I asked a question about "how do I florglegork the grundyvine, so that I don't trundlehook my urselflurp?" You'd likely go "...huh?" and need more clarification to what I'm on about. (While this is actual gibberish, if this was an actual thing, it would make sense to me, but not to someone else that wasn't in the know)

And for the most part, save for the elite few, most of the SE users are just average joes that are bludging during work hours.

2

I know that's not very helpful to you, but that's what I see from those questions

Miniman

@Ben This is an important point - people will do the work to understand a question if they're interested in answering it, but not if they're just thinking about whether to upvote it.

Adeptus

@Shalvenay Bus Pirates?

Shalvenay

@Adeptus dangerousprototypes.com/docs/Bus_Pirate

Ben

2:43 AM

I like Adeptus' better

Ben

2:58 AM

Actually actual

Joel Harmon

@Shalvenay I think question upvotes correlate strongly with title snappiness (corollary: HNQ)

Ben

You ever go back and read something you wrote and realise you used one word almost constantly?

Joel Harmon

@Ben I have, but it bothers me more when professional authors do it

Miniman

@Ben I cringe pretty much whenever I read my own writing.

Ben

@JoelHarmon I was having a conversation about the "art of editing" - editors read the book, not the story.

So yeah, when they read the words, and come back with a sentence that is worse than the one you delivered, I can understand that

@Miniman I feel that

Joel Harmon

3:01 AM

@Ben whenever people ask me to edit something (much less frequently now that I'm not in school) I ask them what I'm editing for. Spelling and grammar is not the same as content.

Miniman

@Ben Yeah, I read an interview somewhere where one of the editors for a major book series was saying how people would ask for spoilers, and he'd be like "Well, they used a lot of multi-line dialogue. But I can't tell you anything about the plot, I didn't read it."

Which explains why continuity errors slip through in a lot of cases.

Ben

@JoelHarmon That is a very good point. I've had people ask me to "proof read", and when I deliver my feedback, it might not be what they were looking for.

Joel Harmon

In general, figuring out what people actually want before doing much work is a very valuable skill.

Miniman

@Ben I've only really performed that service for fellow students with ESL problems, and I always knew exactly what they wanted me to look for :)

Joel Harmon

I actually much prefer helping with ESL problems over EFL problems.

Miniman

3:05 AM

My mastery of the language wouldn't allow me to help with anything except the most egregious EFL problems.

godskook

ESL/EFL?

Miniman

@godskook English as a Second/First Language.

Joel Harmon

English as Second Language

godskook

Ah

I see

Joel Harmon

I don't think EFL is commonly used, but ESL definitely is

Ben

3:06 AM

34 mins ago, by Ben

Like if I asked a question about "how do I florglegork the grundyvine, so that I don't trundlehook my urselflurp?" You'd likely go "...huh?" and need more clarification to what I'm on about. (While this is actual gibberish, if this was an actual thing, it would make sense to me, but not to someone else that wasn't in the know)

cc @Miniman @JoelHarmon lol

Miniman

Even helping with ESL, a lot of the time my advice would be "this is wrong, here's the right way to write it, but don't ask me why because I have no idea".

Ben

@Miniman I don't speak English. I speak Australian.

Miniman

@Ben Nah mate, your Aussie ain't even as strong as a dropbear's arse.

nitsua60

@Miniman I want to star this, but only to indicate that I, also, feel that way about my own writing--not that I feel that way about your writing =)

@Shalvenay hiya

Ben

:39194581 Bugger it. I thought it might be a little bit bad, but it can't be helped

Adeptus

3:16 AM

@Ben I learned recently, that what is commonly called proof reading, is more correctly called line editing. Real proof reading is, reading the "proof" copy of the printed book, and comparing to the original manuscript, to check for transcription errors.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 how're things going?

Ben

@Adeptus The more you know

Shalvenay

@Adeptus it's a shame that those things still happen in 2017 btw

(transcription errors that is)

Ben

There is also, the "most Australian sentence":

Miniman

G'day mate!

Adeptus

3:18 AM

@Shalvenay Probably a lot less these days, since the manuscript & formatted-for-print copy are usually both digital. So most "transcription" will be ctrl-c, ctrl-v.

Ben

> Oi Shazza, if you're going on a maccas run, d'ya think we can stop by the servo to pick up some durries and then to the bottle-o to get some grog or nah?"

Miniman

@Ben I usually see a mention of Shazza in there, but yeah.

nitsua60

@Shalvenay Good--survived my trip to AL tonight! Sheeting rain and driving wind doubled the length of the drive, and a tree came down about 200 yds in front of me. (As I was getting out to tow the tree off the road I heard the radio announcer mention "chance of passing showers or thunderstorms this afternoon.")

Adeptus

@Miniman Is that "nah, yeah" or "yeah, nah"?

Miniman

@Adeptus I've found myself doing that lately, and it even confuses me.

Ben

3:21 AM

@Adeptus In that instance, it'd be "nah, but yeah"

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 lol

@Adeptus it still happens way too often sadly

SevenSidedDie

@Baskakov_Dmitriy Looks like that was @doppelgreener's doing, so might want to ask them. (My guess: it was going in an unproductive direction and had no lasting value?)

nitsua60

(I actually already asked greener, but it's the wee hours in their location, so I expect an answer could be a half-day in the coming.)

Ben

Ty for that removal

nitsua60

@Ben np. Understandable, both in the original posting and in the retrospective concern.

Ben

3:35 AM

@nitsua60 For some reason I had assumed that he was actually Australian too haha when you said "wee hours" I got confused

Adeptus

@Ben Australian, but living in London now

Ben

@Adeptus Well there you go. That makes more sense

nitsua60

Sep 9 '16 at 11:06, by doppelgreener

Everything in London is slightly smaller than in Australia, except for the servings of chips and the beers, which are much larger.

Ben

@nitsua60 Top gear summed it up nicely. They weer on a cattle farm in Australia, herding cows. They were told that this farm is 3.2 million acres.

> Jeremy Clarkson: And to put that in perspective, this single farm is the same size as Buckinghamshire and Hertfordshire and Surrey and East Sussex and West Sussex and Kent, combined. It's the same size as the South East of England! 'Everything you see here, and a lot more besides, is one farm.

Miniman

@trogdor Yeah, comments like this still blow my mind - long-distance car journeys have been a constant part of my life since well before I can remember.

Ben

3:43 AM

Let's bring some numbers into this.

Australia is more or less the same size as the US (minus Alaska).

It has a population less than Texas.

All of which, minus a city or two, sits on the coast, primarily on the East side of the country.

The average farm size for USA is 170ha, UK has 57ha, and continental Europe is 20ha, while in Australia it is 3,300ha[1].

I mean, yes, 3 million acres is f***ing huge, but it's only #9 in the list of largest stations in Australia, the largest sits just shy of 7 million acres.[2]

Ben

4:00 AM

Jun 9 '15 at 0:02, by Ben

Arqade's odd titles

Ben

4:41 AM

DM Advice #15: Dealing with PC death can be a delicate issue, but it's important to remind everyone that you are the boss, and you thrive on the souls of dead PCs. Remember to reinforce this by eating Character sheets upon death.

This can also help settle arguments about the validity of PC revival.

BESW

5:21 AM

My copy of Ki Khanga arrived today!

...kinda crumpled and curled so it'd fit in the slot.

[piles over RPG manuals on top to flatten it back out]

BESW

5:37 AM

2

Ben

6:02 AM

@BESW We learned about this in grade 6 history.

Adeptus

It's that time of the workday once again, when I struggle to remain focused. Or at least, awake.

Ben

@Adeptus DO NOT STARE AT THE CLOCK

Time goes faster if you remain distracted by either your job or anything else, regardless of how focussed you may or may not be.

Miniman

@Adeptus Quick, read about unarmed bear warriors!

Ben

@Miniman for some reason I thought this was about amputee bears

Adeptus

@Miniman But, what about the right to arm bears?

Ben

6:16 AM

Miniman

@Adeptus It's ok, you still have the bare right to bear bear-arms.

BESW

6:27 AM

Personally, I want to be a bear-bender.

Miniman

@Ben When you think about it, this is absolutely ridiculous. No weapon exists that could make a bear more dangerous than it already is by dint of being a bear.

trogdor

@Miniman to be fair, I have only ever been on a 4 hour car trip where I couldn't drive myself

so the only thing I was doing was sitting around waiting for the next rest stop

if I were driving the car myself I might have actually liked it more, strange as that may seem

but I also don't know that for sure either

BESW

@Miniman Arguably it's useful to extend a bear's danger radius, even at diminished capacity.

Miniman

@trogdor Nah, that's perfectly understandable - having both passenged and driven on long trips, time definitely moves differently when driving.

trogdor

@Miniman fair enough, that is always the way it has seemed to work for me

Ben

6:31 AM

@BESW Bear projectiles

Miniman

@trogdor Also, not having other people in the car makes a big difference, too.

Ben

@Miniman Maybe not a weapon as such, but it does help weponise a bear: jetpacks

Miniman

@Ben I guess that's fair, even bears occasionally have to make course corrections when jumping from planet to planet.

BESW

@Ben In D&D 3.0 there's a magic necklace which can be enchanted as if it were a weapon, and when worn by a creature with a natural weapon the necklace's weapon enchantment(s) can be applied to the creature's natural attack.

Ben

@BESW The more I think about this, the more I visualize Aang doing his air-bending, throwing materialized bears at his enemies

Miniman

6:34 AM

@Ben bear-ending, you mean?

BESW

This immediately became ridiculous by dint of the enchantment which lets you throw a weapon that normally can't be thrown, and the enchantment which causes a thrown weapon to return to your hand after the attack.

Ben

Dovahbear Part 1 (Skyrim Cartoon) - Bowz

►

Dovahbear Part 2 (Skyrim Cartoon) - Bowz

►

BESW

I think my favorite use was applying a +1 Throwing Returning Necklace of Natural Weapons to a dragon's bite attack.

Ben

Dovahbear Part 3 (Skyrim Cartoon) - Bowz

►

Miniman

@BESW Should I ask how you got a dragon's bite attack in the first place?

BESW

6:39 AM

@Miniman Oh, that's easy. You give the Necklace of Natural Weapons to a PC who can change shape, by magic or class feature.

Miniman

@BESW Ah, right.

Adeptus

@BESW Dragon with dentures?

Ben

@BESW "Oh that's easy: cheese"

BESW

Nah, their teeth just fly out of their mouth, bite somebody, then fly back in.

For bonus GM headache, use the +1 Throwing Returning Necklace of Natural Weapons with a creature whose natural attack allows a grapple check if they hit.

Or, better yet, a swallow.

Miniman

@BESW I had just worked that one out and was typing it.

BESW

6:42 AM

[grin] D&D 3.x is silly.

Miniman

@BESW But the only natural attack swallows have is "Drop Coconut"!

Ben

> Jaws of a Staffy: On a successful hit, roll 1d8 damage. The target is also automatically grappled, and unable to escape, until you choose to let them go, or if you are knocked unconscious.

@Miniman If you throw the necklace, and the force of the attack is the same as a coconut falling at terminal velocity, that would be quite deadly

BESW

If you really want to make your GM cringe, don't put Returning on the Necklace of Natural Weapons.

Then ask the GM to help you figure out how it works.

Ben

@BESW prg.se

You know, I was gonna edit that, but it seems appropriate for cheese :P

trogdor

@Miniman a good difference or a bad difference?

Ben

6:58 AM

@trogdor I would say it depends on the company.

trogdor

same

honestly

Ben

4 screaming children vs 4 sane people able to both allow you to stay focussed, alert, and eneterained

BESW

7:18 AM

I dunno, 4 screaming children would probably keep me at least two out of three of focused, alert, and entertained.

Ben

@BESW Ever do the "lollies out the window"? I never understood that.

Why not just eat the lollies.

BESW

I don't know what that is, so no.

Ben

Just cos they can't have them doesn't mean you can't either

@BESW Ah, basically on long road trips where children are bound to misbehave, you get an assortment of lollies and put them in little baggies. Each time a child misbehaves, or asks "are we there yet", you throw a bag out the window

BESW

....

trogdor

lollipops you mean?

how odd

BESW

7:22 AM

There are so many reasons that's a horrible idea.

Ben

At least that's what my parents did. It worked. Because we learned that if we behaved, we got more lollies at the destination

BESW

Like, pedagogically, environmentally, AND legally right off the top of my head.

Ben

@trogdor Nah like the fruit lollies or whatever. You used to be able to get like 20 bags of lollies (like a small handful) for like $1 when I as a kid

@BESW This was in the 90s

trogdor

@Ben I don't know what you mean then

maybe this is Australian slang for something, or a candy/snack wtv we don't have here

Ben

trogdor

7:25 AM

ah

Ben

@trogdor Yeah. "lolly" = "candy"

trogdor

we call those "gummies" here

Ben

Ah fair enough

trogdor

@Ben ah ok, so not just this specific type of candy then?

Ben

Not up to date on American slang :P

trogdor

7:26 AM

@Ben pretty sure it came from the brands we have here

or at least used to have

Ben

@trogdor Just assortments. Jelly babies, snakes, whatever.

trogdor

gummy bears for example

BESW

The US doesn't really call anything a "lollie," though we have "lollypops" which are hard candies on a stick.

In Britain a "lollie" might also be what we'd call a popsicle, a frozen sweet treat on a stick.

trogdor

yeah throwing the wrapper and the stick out with that candy would be bad

Ben

Well. for clarification, these little packets would be something like a small papar bag (about as big as your palm) filled with gummies

Not like popsicles or whole candy bars or anything like that

doppelgreener

7:40 AM

@Baskakov_Dmitriy I wiped out those comments. KRyan said the comments might as well get deleted in his last comment and I acted on that suggestion. FWIW, what you did was fine - you attributes and referenced an external useful resource and explained and conveyed the important information for the purposes of answering the question. We'd do the same with a page of a book, an encyclopedia page, etc.

Baskakov_Dmitriy

7:57 AM

@doppelgreener Seems to attract downvotes, though.

doppelgreener

8:21 AM

@Baskakov_Dmitriy All the more reason to delete those comments. Seems ForrestFire brought up some other separate concerns.

BESW

This heist is going great. #rpg #DnD #sohidden https://t.co/Exig282rqk

Tweeted by SavingThrowShow on August 2, 2017 at 7:00 PM

Baskakov_Dmitriy

8:39 AM

@doppelgreener Yes, I will fix that by citing exact wording of how does the Cleric "know" her spells a bit later.

kviiri

9:14 AM

wolframalpha.com/input/?i=48+random+digits Exactly what I needed!

BESW

@carlrigney's RPG kickstarter page is also very useful for finding about new games being kickstarted. http://www.flick.com/~cdr/rpg/kickstarter.html #RPGaDay.

Tweeted by mc_ellis on August 3, 2017 at 7:46 AM in reply to mc_ellis

kviiri

9:30 AM

Who's in charge of Cool RPG stuff? As an Apocalypse World fanboi, I'd like to add that Apocalypse World 2e is now released for sale!

@doppelgreener apocalypse-world.com can you add it to Cool RPG stuff?

doppelgreener

@kviiri I maintain it right now, BESW did in the past, really either of us could. :) Do you have a page specifically announcing the AW 2e release and/or a sale page for it specifically?

kviiri

@doppelgreener This Kickstarter announcement: kickstarter.com/projects/226674021/apocalypse-world-2nd-edition/…

It also has the new playbook I linked yesterday, Landfall Marine.

doppelgreener

Cool RPG Stuff:
💎 [RPG A Day 2017!](https://autocratik.blogspot.co.uk/2017/07/rpgaday-2017-announcing-rpgaday-again.html)
🕯️ [Night Forest](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rosscowman/night-forest "Wander the Night Forest in this ritual game of memory and connection by award-winning publisher: Heart of the Deernicorn.")
🗡️ [Spire: The City Must Fall](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gshowitt/spire-rpg "Join the dark elf resistance against their cruel high elf overlords in this urban fantasy-punk tabletop RPG.")

4

kviiri

@doppelgreener Thanks!

doppelgreener

Np :)

kviiri

9:38 AM

I wish I had my books already :<

BESW

Speaking of new books, @doppelgreener, @trogdor.

doppelgreener

Worry not, they'll arrive ~~tomorrow~~ ~~the day after~~ ~~in a while~~ eventually!

Woo!!

trogdor

@BESW oh nice, been waiting for a while for that one right?

BESW

Yeah.

kviiri

@doppelgreener Now that they're on sale for non-backers, Vincent will likely sell MY books to someone random!

Evil plan!

BESW

9:42 AM

I'm not gonna start reading it 'til it's flatter, but I'm excited partly because it's the TTRPG embodiment of Charles Saunders' exhortation, and partly because it's a card-based system and I haven't seen many of those.

kviiri

Ooh, cards are nice.

BESW

Like, an actual deck of playing cards.

kviiri

Yes, I like the sort-of "self-correcting" probability distribution they have :)

BESW

(I appreciate the utility of customized decks, but I've got a thing for games which use household items like poker cards and Yahtzee dice.)

doppelgreener

@Ben Australia is big. Really big. You won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the Woolworths, but that's just peanuts compared to Australia.

3

kviiri

9:56 AM

If you could put Australia into a tube, you'd end up with a very long tube, probably extending twice the size of Australia. Because when we would collapse Australia, it expands and it would be, uh... you wouldn't want to put it into a tube.

Trish

10:14 AM

I wish shome books would have been preserved as PDFs... Werewolf Player's Gude 2nd, Shiki (for Shogun), the whole Geographica series of DSA...

kviiri

You can always make a PDF copy of a book you have, though.

Assuming it's in compliance with your local copyright law, of course.

Trish

@kviiri I could, If I HAD those books. The 2nd Ed WPG is like a myth (as in nobody seems to own it), Shiki is traded for exorbitant 75 pounds, and I have some pieces of the Geographica series, but can't afford to buy together the other ones at currently ca. 50€ a piece (the series is huge! I have 3 of them, it has... volumes G0 to G15 and the Atlas...)

Wait... Oh F, why didn't I look at the publisher!? he has PDFs... not DTRPG...

well, Ulysses has its E-Books on a... subpage of DTRPG it seems... and omitting the 'outdated' G series... :(

kviiri

:(

Trish

Well... Seems like some books are still on Amazon, for like 38 or such...

which is still more than the original 30...

BESW

Yeah, out of print books can get expensive.

Trish

10:31 AM

I have the G4 (dwarfs) G7 (Elves) and G9 (the most traditional part of the Middle Empire)... I want... pretty much all the others...

@BESW it can get ridiculous. Before DTRPG, a Werewolf Core book of 1st, 2nd or revised could sell for 150€ or more! thanks goodness, that DTRPG allows to get the pdfs.

BESW

My mother spent years before she found an affordable copy of William Wallace Cook's 1928 masterpiece Plotto: The Master Book of All Plots.

Trish

(Ok, a printed Mage 20th can cost - including shipping - 125€ too, but that is a 10 pound monster of 700 pages.

BESW

...I should mention Plotto in the Literature chat.

Trish

10:45 AM

You know what is a problem with defining each and every detail of a fantays world like The Dark Eye(DSA) does it?

nwp

Contradictions and way too much material?

kviiri

@Trish It's laborous, only one person of each table will ever read it and the rest don't care enough?

Trish

You will come to a point where you make mistakes like describing a person in one publication to have black hair, dark-brown in the next and blue-black in the last... and because there are avid fans, they will rage about each of these tiny blunders, and even more about larger onse.

@nwp yep

@kviiri also true

or... people having daughters after they dies...

BESW

I'm kind of a fan of "If it hasn't hit the table, it doesn't exist."

nwp

@Trish Just use a modern setting. People have dyed their hair for thousands of years!

Trish

10:49 AM

@nwp yea, that is the solution some author used to clear one of those errors... bzut people dying years before their offspring is born is kind of fishy, isn't it?

BESW

I once had a group for D&D 3.5 with a few players who'd memorized the monsters and standard lore well enough that it was getting difficult for the rest of the group to enjoy stuff that was new to everyone else. So I designed a whole campaign based on "We found a new continent across the ocean and it's full of weird never-before-seen stuff!"

nwp

@Trish Put your story in the Dr Who universe and all your consistency problems are gone :P

Trish

DSA is known for its rabid fans over here - those binge-readers :P

BESW

Then I just re-skinned and templated aggressively.

kviiri

@BESW That sounds clever :P

Trish

10:51 AM

@nwp if you do that, you should be prepared for massive mindfuck done by the players. They expect to get away with the same stuff The Doctor does.

@BESW Gamers 1 Style? Learning each monster statistic?!

kviiri

My approach is the opposite, I just expose monsters to my players most of the time. I don't think surprises like "oh, the troll wakes up if not burned" get awkward easily.

Trish

My goto is "describe, not name"

jwacalex

but even than you sometimes "feel" what kind of monster it is

BESW

It worked for that group, which liked being surprised and didn't really have much interest in being part of the worldbuilding. My current group has very different needs.

kviiri

So I tell them they've heard stories of these things, and heroes who struck them down only to have them pick themselves up (literally), and other heroes who burned or dissolved them to kill them permanently.

BESW

10:55 AM

@Trish You may find [Siskoid's RPG interpretations of every season of Doctor Who](siskoid.blogspot.ca/search/label/Seasons of DWAITAS) interesting.

...how do you hyperlink an address with spaces?

Trish

Examples from my *House of living things* "Some black, baglike thing with teeth at the edge falls from over the door to try to strangle you... what is your flatfooted AC?"
"The oven creaks and starts to pull together, the fire in its center raging and blazing as the pipe grabs for the kettles and pans to stack them upon the fire. The feet shriek as they moove to push the monster to the middle of the room, the towering shell of cast iron with a blazing flame in its center slowly turning to the door. Atop this, the pitch black slot between a kettle and its improperly closed lid starts to turn…

BESW

At any rate, Doctor Who RPGs are designed with "we can get away with ridiculous stuff but are also stopped by ridiculous stuff" built into the system.

Trish

@BESW the last entry is most akin to a folder name. Those allow space.

BESW

@Trish Yeah, I'm asking how to make the address into a hyperlink, not how the address itself is possible.

Trish

%20 should be space

BESW

11:01 AM

test

Yey!

nwp

11:14 AM

rawawa sandbox /ragequit! (I may be slightly annoyed by a delivery service sending me a letter that my address cannot be found)

2

BESW

> Call the first magcar again,
and search the rocks nearby.
The name of an historian
is just four pixels high.

Trish

11:42 AM

@nwp The delivery service used the postal service to deliver the letter, after the deliveryman couldn't find the house. The postman does know the house, he goes there every time you get post.

kviiri

Wanna help an educational RPG project funded by the European Union? Fill a survey regarding your RPG habits here: goo.gl/forms/uPyJOp0VMdSmiVbz2

BESW

[squint] Got a link to the project?

kviiri

@BESW eduproject.eu/rune

BESW

Thanks. Googling "Project RUNE" got me Square Enix, wind energy, and classic Scandinavian literature.

And misspelling "Experience" on the survey didn't strike confidence in my heart that it's a legit thing.

kviiri

Heh :P

BESW

11:48 AM

2

kviiri

Some of the questions are a bit weird though. "I want my character to heal fast after a fight". Do they think I always want to play the same game?

BESW

Yes. Yes, they do.

kviiri

"In general, I play characters who are..." well, statistically I should answer female, but I never regarded it as a pattern until you framed it as such, dear questionnaire!

BESW

> I like games that focus on inexperienced players by explaining a lot

What does that even mean?

nwp

12:08 PM

@BESW You prefer newbies who didn't read the manual over nerds who studied the rules extensively as well as scoured rpg.se for rulings on unclear rules.

BESW

No, it's a question about the system.

nwp

In that case maybe they mean forcing the players through tutorial island where every game mechanic is explained vs just dropping you into the world where it is part of the game to figure out what you can do.

Although if they looked into game design they should have learned a few tricks, such as placing enemies just out of range or have them fight each other so the player has a chance to learn without getting into a lot of "this is BS, there was no way I could have known that" situations.

kviiri

12:33 PM

I always have internal conflicts on using more advanced combat tactics in RPGs.

Like, Savage Worlds (or DL:Reloaded as we played it) has a ton of combat maneuvers to remember (double taps, three-round-bursts, tricks and so) and I would've liked to use them from time to time, but at the same time, not all of our players understood those rules and I felt they'd think I was just making it up as I went.

BESW

12:46 PM

As a GM in more complicated systems, I'd often introduce niche mechanics with an NPC who used a particular mechanic as his gimmick.

"Here's something you can do too!"

NautArch

howdy y'all

@kviiri I think I've asked before - but have you played SW: The Tomorrow Legion ?

kviiri

@NautArch No, Deadlands: Reloaded is my only touch on SW.

NautArch

@kviiri Gotcha. I'm still waiting on playing SW:TL. My friend has not been successful in recruiting other players besides me.

kviiri

What's it like?

NautArch

haven't played it yet, only created two characters. But it seems completely over the top (in a good way)

kviiri

12:56 PM

Is it like a military game or?

nitsua60

@BESW eh, the pedagogy's sound =)

NautArch

@kviiri I think it's military. You're party of the Tomorrow Legion and have to go on missions (from what he's told me.) I've tried not to read too much besides chargen stuff and gameplay so it can be mostly a surprise.

kviiri

I see.

DL:RL has some character options for being in the military. I was the only one who picked one of those, Texas Ranger, and they're supposed to be single riders.

I wonder how the game is expected to work if one player decides they'll play a normal private and the rest want to be freelancers or something.

NautArch

@kviiri ah, picking rank doesn't seem to be an option. You're all just "part of the Legion". The game assumes you're in the legion.

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