TRPG General Chat

kviiri

13:00

@NautArch Yeah, it's definitely a plus in my books :)

Like, having a sort-of clear guideline on what the party is expected to be like in relation to each other and the world around them.

NautArch

Yeah, that seems fairly well spelled out. Explains what the Legion is, but characters may still have issues with others based on race.

My first character was more of a standard caster that I was aiming more to be support focused. Pretty powerful, but not super interesting. The 2nd was a Burner that given enough time (about 3 rounds to prep) is like a super sayan and is an absolute juggernaut at that point.

BESW

@nitsua60 I have deep reservations about techniques that associate extrinsic rewards with adhering to basic social norms.

BanjoFox

Hi all :D

BESW

But I also have deep reservations about my ability to deal with the new client tomorrow if I don't sleep soon, so I should go do that.

NautArch

@BanjoFox top o the morn

BanjoFox

13:06

@NautArch -- I have much computer blood on my hands so yes. I get this is the top. :D

nwp

@BanjoFox Citizen, report to termination immediately!

BanjoFox

@nwp -- >.> I mean... I guess I'm -technically- ULTRAVIOLET clearance? (I REALLy REALLY horked my webserver LOL)

nwp

Well, just reset to default settings and restore from backup which you regularly made. By that I mean no clearance level allows you to screw with the computer!

BanjoFox

speaking of... do any of you guys know a gamer/web devs that will work for beer? XD

doppelgreener

that depends on how much beer

BanjoFox

13:12

@nwp -- ULTRAVIOLET's hack the computer all the time :P

@doppelgreener -- Quantities negotiable :D

nwp

@BanjoFox mostly depends on how interesting the work is and what cool new toys you get to play with

doppelgreener

@BanjoFox if you get the quantities just right...

NautArch

@doppelgreener and possibly what kind of beer. All the Icehouse you can drink may not be the best offer.

BanjoFox

backstory: the WoD gaming site that I host/admin is running WAY old PHP code and a flash-based chat server (x.X). I would like both of them updated to modern web standards. Priority is for the PHP app

I found a nice CSS/HTML5 template but I'm not good enough with grids to transform all of the <tables> to grids yet (aka too lazy...) I figure it would be beer-worthy to get some help to do a couple of samples that I can copy/pasta.

nwp

I kind of want to screw around with emscripten, but there is a good chance it will never get done.

BanjoFox

13:17

@nwp woah :D thats cool

</rant>

Rust is also pretty awesome but that is more for system programming than web stuff ;)

kviiri

Rust is on my to-do list, after I get my bloody thesis done.

I think most of my "man, I wish I had the time to X" these days are because of the thesis.

BanjoFox

@kviiri -- The Rust tutorials on their main site are pretty good :) I learned more with them than the 8 weeks of C class I just finished haha... also.. what is your thesis on?

kviiri

@BanjoFox Deterministic Distributed Algorithms in Toroidic Grid Graphs

I sort of regret picking this topic, even though it's interesting... the Monte Carlo Tree Search thing I did for my BSc was far more marketable :)

nwp

I went for the "lets change how people think about multithreading". You can imagine how that went.

doppelgreener

@BanjoFox it's ok to still use tables. (give them a role="presentation" attribute so that screen readers understand they're not for tabular data.)

kviiri

13:26

@nwp I tried to have a demonstrative presentation about multithreading to my classmates, too bad one thread ran fast and the presentation ended about halfway in.

Parallelization jokes never get old!

doppelgreener

it's not ideal just because tables have some constraints that the CSS grid system doesn't. to a lot of developers, using tables is taboo. they can have a fine functional purpose though. stack exchange still makes heavy use of table elements for layout.

nwp

@kviiri yup

kviiri

@nwp What the... I actually read that right first. Language brain is weird.

BanjoFox

@doppelgreener -- The tables structures are mainly for displaying character sheets :(

doppelgreener

@BanjoFox well go ahead and keep using them if you'd like.

do as agile does: first focus on having something working and useful, then focus on improving it.

BanjoFox

13:34

It seems hacky for modern web tech XD

doppelgreener

well it might, but it's also completely acceptable.

do you want a working product next week, or a perfect product next year?

BanjoFox

I ~~have~~ had a working product lol

upgrades have been an ongoing dream ;)

Ryan

I don't understand how this question became "EB Lock" vs "Blade Lock" - rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/46643/…

doppelgreener

ok, well, what i mean is, you feel the need to upgrade, and you have something workable but that doesn't necessarily follow all the best practices. you have two choices:
- set up the working version you have now, and keep it.
- set up the working version you have now, then work on it to improve it and launch the improved versions incrementally over the next few months as you have new stuff ready.
- work on the improved versions incrementally privately and release them several months from now and until then have no upgrade at all.

nitsua60

So did I. Until it came time to break my son of his thumb-sucking habit. 18 months of trying various non-bribery methods, then I gave up. "Alright, [son]: the first day that you've gone two weeks without sucking your thumb, you and I will hop in the car and go spend an evening hanging out with your godfather."
Sixteen days later it was over-and-done-with.

BanjoFox

13:38

@doppelgreener -- I usually go for the middle one also :) I have a separate domain for that in fact. I am just running out of gas to actually make any progress u.u

doppelgreener

@BanjoFox that's a good idea to go for option 1 then, and work on upgrades if/when you have energy for it.

BanjoFox

@doppelgreener -- but but... I just wanna hand someone a case of beer to do it for me! D':

2

kviiri

@doppelgreener I try to make it my mantra that "done is better than perfect". It's really hard sometimes.

doppelgreener

@kviiri it is hard for me all the time. ;_;

BanjoFox

Try being a Sysadmin working in InfoSec... ;) Secure/Best Practice Code, and users don't exactly mix well ;)

doppelgreener

13:43

@BanjoFox security and users don't mix well

3

if it weren't for those pesky users everything would be fine...

BanjoFox

@doppelgreener such is my daily life v.v

someday I am going to get out of InfoSec/IT and become a farmer :D

anyways... moving on :)

godskook

TIL: If you go by a 3d6 distribution, 18 Int is ~143 IQ, assuming IQ=Int, which I think is fair.

nwp

@BanjoFox chat.stackoverflow.com/search?q=botany&room=10

doppelgreener

@godskook IQ also measures judgement, which would be wisdom 🤔

BanjoFox

@nwp dies laughing

Adam

13:46

@Ryan perhaps something in the context of the question, or maybe just a bunch of people going with their first instinct about what the question was asking.

NautArch

I'm gonna go with IQ doesn't measure much besides how well you can take that test.

BanjoFox

Intelligence Quotient -should- be pure INT based on name alone.

in practice is another matter :)

kviiri

DnD stats don't map that well to real-world contexts. News at eleven?

:P

godskook

@doppelgreener "Judgement" is a bit inspecific, in this regard?

nwp

@godskook You only sampled noob adventures though. If you include seasoned adventurers you should see an interesting unexplained peak at 20.

BanjoFox

13:49

oh hey ENWorld is looking for writers! :D

kviiri

Yeah, and unusually low incidences of odd stats.

godskook

@nwp I mean, the Wizards are clocking in at over 30, but for non-Wizards, it should hover statistically

NautArch

huh. did not realize Rods were so big!

nwp

@godskook Right, I'll take my free aspect from @BESW now for assuming 5e.

NautArch

immediate regret with that language

BanjoFox

13:51

@NautArch :D

kviiri

I still think 5e could've ditched the whole base stat vs modifier thing and have just one number per stat.

godskook

@nwp if I'm talking about D&D, and I started the conversation, I'm PROBABLY talking about 3.5. I realize I'm alone here, though.

kviiri

@godskook I've already made the association that you're the resident 3.5e guy :)

godskook

@kviiri with the way 5e is setup, that would mean you'd have +.5 ASI increases.

kviiri

I think it's nice to have people with different favorites, gives more dimension to everything.

nitsua60

13:53

@kviiri dunno... I need me my 1' resolution on long jumps =)

And 15# resolution on encumbrance.

kviiri

@godskook ...or they could just tweak the ASI logic to match.

godskook

@kviiri, ~well~, KRyan is also a dominant 3.5 guy around here, just not in chat.

kviiri

Of course it's not a change one could make in a vacuum.

godskook

@kviiri Which would require a change in balance.

doppelgreener

@godskook i agree.

kviiri

13:55

@godskook I don't think it'd make a significant difference, though. To be fair, I'm not even sure if I consider the current system balanced enough to vouch for it.

godskook

@doppelgreener I mean...which aspects fo the word "judgement" are you referring to?

kviiri

In 5e, the ASI allows you to increase one stat by two or two stats by one, up to twenty. There's almost never a reason to raise a stat to odd if you could raise a stat to even instead.

godskook

@kviiri Everything I read about 5e suggests that it is FAR more pre-balanced than 3.5, to the point where a +1 or +2 more than other builds might be "overpowered"

doppelgreener

@godskook oh! IQ tests frequently administer pattern recognition tests in which you have to determine what the missing piece of the sequence would be, which involves skills I'd associate with judgement skills.

kviiri

@godskook Everything I've heard about 3.5e suggest that pretty much any game is :P

doppelgreener

13:57

@kviiri except deadearth

NautArch

@godskook Definitely those magical +s make a HUGE difference.

kviiri

@doppelgreener DeadEarth is practically cheating

godskook

@kviiri [Insert jab at 4e here]

doppelgreener

@godskook (4e fixed a ton of major balance issues that 5e reinstated though? 🤔)

kviiri

Anyway, I'm fairly sure balancing it for just one number per stat would be easier than trying to make with two numbers per stat.

nitsua60

13:59

@godskook I feel like that's a matter of 5e's sensitivity (via "bounded accuracy"), not necessarily its successful balance.

(Though I do feel, personally, that 5e's balanced "enough.")

nwp

except for ranger pets :P

kviiri

I would guess something like advancing two stat modifiers by one or one by two up to +2, or one stat modifier by one up to +5 would produce ok results for 5e.

nwp

@kviiri You could trivial balance that by removing every second ASI.

nitsua60

@kviiri So, basically "strengthen" the low-end stat-bumps, down where they don't really matter that much anyway?

kviiri

@nwp Why? I don't follow.

nitsua60

14:02

I guess I'm wondering why even try to retain the "advance two" branch of the current rule?

nwp

@kviiri You doubled the ability score increase power. If you half the number of ability score increases it balances out.

kviiri

I think the game would work fine without it, but I think it's somehow apt to boost advancing dump stats so they're a viable option.

@nwp No I didn't. I'd say that keeps the power level mostly intact. You lose the ability to advance two high stats by a modifier at the same time, but you can boost lower stats more easily (and since lower stats are usually worth less, I say it's a fair trade).

Not saying it's equivalent, but probably balanced enough.

NautArch

I'm not sure i understand the problem we're trying to solve for

nwp

@NautArch We are trying to distract each other from work. Until you brought rational thought into the discussion.

3

kviiri

@NautArch That 5e designers still insist on having two scores for abilities: the "actual" score and the modifier, where the latter is the only one that actually matters for pretty much everything.

@nwp I should be cleaning the house, we have visitors coming in today :<

NautArch

14:09

@kviiri OH! In that case. I agree. There are asome isntances where they use the actual score, like in jumping distance, but that could easily be a multiplier of the modifier.

kviiri

I feel they just had to make multiclass requirements odd numbers just to make odd numbers useful!

Adam

@kviiri A hold over from the earlier editions I assume.

kviiri

@Adam That's the likely explanation

Baggage!

Adam

While I agree that having all stats just live on a scale from -5 to +5 and just adding that number alone would probably be easier, I can't help but wonder if they actually did that, would there be an outcry from people who feel that such a system is inherently not D&D? Much the same way people initially felt the changes in 4e made it "not D&D".

nwp

Why is "it must be DnD" even a requirement?

nitsua60

14:14

@Adam Yeah, but they're the same people who feel like any classes beyond Fighter, Magic-User, and (possibly) Cleric and Thief are just silly. [Raises hand.] Who wants to listen to them?

NautArch

@nwp because comfort. Change is scary.

godskook

@doppelgreener Yeah....that was just the edition-wars talking :P

Adam

@nwp Because if WotC releases a game that they label as D&D, and it doesn't "feel like D&D", it'll flop and they'll lose bunches of money. And after all, they're a for profit company; that's a nightmare scenario for them.

doppelgreener

@godskook gotcha :D

godskook

@nwp Because that's what WotC promised, afaik. I used the comparison yesterday of "Imagine if Red Alert was billed as a Tiberium game"

kviiri

14:17

@Adam Probably yes. People are funny that way.

Catering to the grognards doesn't excuse them from my criticisms, though!

Trish

-1

Q: Why have a starting proficiency bonus at all?

I've just started running a 5E game after decades away. Im coming from the BECMI and AD&D era. I remember how finding a sword +1 plus +2 against goblins was quite a haul. But if players get a +2 to hit right from the start a plus one weapon just seems like "hey neat". I've read about bonus infla...

A case for a rollback of the question?!

godskook

Red Alert was accepted on its independent merits because the company made clear markers explaining that it wasn't in the Tiberium "franchise". Whereas 4e was the opposite. They re-wrote Forgotten Realms to accommodate 4e, which is tacit to saying 4e was going to be what DnD players of 3.5 switched to for their previously 3.5 games, at least in Forgotten Realms.

kviiri

For some reason, I think I've mostly seen criticism of 4e be about the gameplay, not the lore.

doppelgreener

@Trish it's a year old & the querent hasn't pursued any action in connection with that question; leave it be.

Trish

It jsut popped up among the recent activity...

doppelgreener

14:22

yeah, someone revised their answer.

but there's no particular reason we'd roll back the question.

kviiri

Well the question itself was changed fairly significantly in the last edit.

nwp

The question seems a bit like an answer to what the question was before the edit.

doppelgreener

ah, i see what you're getting at there.

NautArch

@doppelgreener I thought necromancy wasn't evil in 5e :)

Adam

@NautArch Alignment barely matters in 5e, so who cares if it's evil or not :p

doppelgreener

14:32

ha, well, it's not, but things like rollback could thrust the asker back into being responsible for some cleanup on a post they've left alone for a year

so i'm cautious about doing stuff like that because of the human element

but we could add back the original last paragraph they had, above the last paragraphs they authored.

Trish

Sounds like a fine compromiss

Just to keep the answer-question context flowing.

doppelgreener

yeah. :)

Trish

because as I found it, the context was... haolfway buried.

Adam

@B.S.Morganstein i.sstatic.net/lEVJC.jpg

NautArch

@Adam hahaha

BanjoFox

14:46

So wait...is the shaft of Thor's hammer really an Imovable Rod? :D

godskook

@BanjoFox Almost definitely not.

People have MOVED the shaft.

At least, as far as I remember.

BanjoFox

Maybe there is an imovable rod in the hammer head then. (Referencing the Loki photo :P)

NautArch

@BanjoFox not the 2-3' long D&D 5e one :P

doppelgreener

Captain America nudged it a little in one of the Avengers movies.

But basically nobody can make it budge unless they're worthy of it.

NautArch

@doppelgreener nudge nudge wink wink know what i mean?

doppelgreener

14:48

@NautArch yeah, if you mean he nudged it a little :O

Adam

Thor vs Loki - Final Battle Scene - Movie CLIP HD

►

godskook

So....I'm trying to come up with an example of a Rogue+Cleric archetype from fiction that's not D&D.

NautArch

i think that cinematic combat question is now one of my favorites. It's generating a lot of ideas for me :)

godskook

Best I've come up with so far is Constantine or Van Helsing, but I'd like something a ....bit....more "on the nail".

nitsua60

@godskook Do you mean multiclass, or a duo?

NautArch

14:50

@godskook have you read any of the Gentlemen Bastards series?

nitsua60

Alright, Wizards... you might have sold me on ~~King's Landing~~ Chult:

godskook

@nitsua60 Multiclass.

nitsua60

@godskook The secondary character from The Name of the Rose?

(Not the young one, but the older one.)

BanjoFox

@NautArch -- Excuuuuuuze me :P

godskook

@nitsua60 Hoping for something a bit more pop-cultury

nitsua60

14:52

St. Augustine?

@godskook (Oh. Going in the wrong direction, then....)

NautArch

@godskook Gentlemen Bastards too unknown? It's a fairly popular series

nitsua60

And I guess Augustine's more dual-class than multiclass =)

NautArch

but they are priests of Perelando who are most definitely rogues.

godskook

@NautArch Not known to me, sadly.

NautArch

@godskook It's unfinished, but it's a great series.

@godskook Would robin hood's little john count?

godskook

14:55

@NautArch There's 3 types of books: Classics, unheard-of, and unfinished-but-great :P

@NautArch Little John isn't a "cleric", and Friar Tuck isn't a "rogue" :P

Adam

Excuse me, Princess!

►

NautArch

@godskook yeah, i didn't feel good about that suggestion

@godskook and they're also priests, not clerics. No magic.

BanjoFox

brb... I need to go buy a snack -.-

NautArch

@BanjoFox stop by my office...free snacks!

B. S. Morganstein

@Adam Haha exactly!

Trish

15:03

@Adam Is he a broken LP?!

nitsua60

@NautArch I dismissed your flag on the link-answer in comments only because it's been such a short time. If the commenter is going to take your advice, there's no way they've had time to do it yet. I feel like if it's still there in an hour or two, then it'd be good to delete.

NautArch

@nitsua60 k, i'll wait longer before flagging next time

nitsua60

@NautArch (It's tough though, because I know I'll often forget to come back to something like that, so I "flag it when I see it," too. No criticism--just wanted to explain why you'd see it come up as "declined." I don't think you're incorrect, just that I wanted to give the person a chance, first.)

Really, what I should have done is neither declined nor accepted the flag--that way one of us mods would see it again in a bit. Shame on me....

NautArch

@nitsua60 shame!

BanjoFox

15:22

@NautArch -- Are they Whole 30 approved? :P

A.B.

Hello all. Are we allowed to link external sites unrelated to this site?

godskook

@A.B. in what context?

A.B.

@godskook to help answer a question

as a reference

Adam

@A.B. In my experience, yes. As long as the site isn't malicious, doesn't infringe on any copyrights, and you quote the relevant portion of the link in your answer in case the link ever dies.

nwp

also no porn sites

godskook

15:31

@A.B. That's very un-enlightening as to the specific context you're working in.

But for that minimal context, the answer is yes.

However, not all sites and contexts within "help answer a question" are a "yes".

A.B.

@godskook I linked an image of a person stretching from an external website to help support an answer

And I just wanted to make sure it was okay for me to do so, if not I shall remove it.

godskook

dndtools is a no-no, for instance.

A.B.

The website in question is about chronic back pain

godskook

@A.B. Are you linking the -page- or the -image-?

BanjoFox

so wait... no bagels[dot][triple-x] XD

A.B.

15:33

The image

godskook

Using external websites as if they were image-hosting sites is a violation of "standard" internet ettiquette, unless they are image-hosting sites.

A.B.

So linking the actual page would be better?

godskook

Usually, because then you're giving them click-revenue for their content that you're referencing.

Also, some sites have sneaky workarounds to prevent such links from working on anybody's computer but yours, and only on yours because you have the image in your cache, so that's another derivative reason for why you shouldn't do this.

A.B.

So the answer in the end is more of a "yes it's okay, but you probably shouldn't"

Trish

my rule of thumb is: deeplink to your own website or product catalogues only

nitsua60

15:42

5

Q: Linking articles to answer questions

Is it appropriate to answer a question by simply linking an existing article and possibly giving a short summary as to why that answers the question? Example: Myself

support answers questions on-topic

28

Q: Links to "D&D Tools" / dndtools.eu and similar sites

I've noticed lots of links to dndtools.eu lately. That site seems to have verbatim text from a lot of non-OGL D&D stuff. Obviously, that's really useful as a reference! But the site itself is presumably violating copyright, and if it ever gets taken down, all those links become useless. Is th...

discussion copyright

good first answer on that one ^^

(explaining some good reasoning that might apply in your case, even though the context is a bit different)

A.B.

@nitsua60 thanks for the links

nitsua60

np =)

SevenSidedDie

@A.B. If it's an image illustrating a point in a post (I'm guessing you mean this version of this answer), the ideal is often to embed the image in the post itself (which of course means finding an image that is licensed, free, or unfree but is Fair Use in the answer's context). That ways it's hosted by us directly and immune to linkrot, and is immediately visible to the answer-reader.

doppelgreener

For those interested, Humble Bundle has a Game Maker Bundle (it's for video games)

Delioth

@doppelgreener Yeah... it's "$1500" of content for $15. I don't even want it but I might as well. I don't know if the prices the makers normally charge are remotely "worthwhile", but it's a lot for $15

BanjoFox

15:53

@doppelgreener -- yeah because I need MORE software that I won't use hahah .... still throws $20 their direction

hrm.. it looks like GMS has a version 2...

NautArch

@BanjoFox never heard of that. looked up. that's...crazy. no legumes, dairy, grains, or sugars? that does not sound healthy.

BanjoFox

@NautArch I mean...we had a steak dinner last night :P steak + fresh asparagus, grilled onions and peppers

NautArch

@BanjoFox are you exercising regularly?

BanjoFox

@NautArch -- I mean... I do park pretty far from the front door of the office :D

NautArch

@BanjoFox yeah....

BanjoFox

16:08

@NautArch I can hear you judging me :p

SevenSidedDie

Seems like a reasonable way to eat. There are lots of proteins and fibres that aren't legumes; dairy and refined sugars are totally optional for humans; grains are a concentrated form of complex carbs but definitely not the only source. So long as macronutrient profiles are good, it sounds good.

NautArch

@SevenSidedDie I'm just generally not a fan of restrictive diets. It's a ham-fisted (mmm, ham) way to try and make a lifestyle change.

but it is easier than taking a closer look at what you're eating, how much you're eating and how often you're eating it. At this point, I think we've got a pretty good idea of healthy vs unhealthy and that balancing for 'everything in moderation' and pairing it with regular exercise is really the best way to do it.

<i say this while also considering a cheese steak for lunch> :(

SevenSidedDie

@NautArch There are diets and there are diets… I do think that having a engaged understanding of the nutritional nature of the foods improves things, but there are many reasonable ways to eat, even without getting geeky about the macro and micro nutrient profiles.

(My partner went vegan for [reasons] a year and a half ago, but I'm the primary household cook, so I've gotten a crash course in “what is my food made of, and what do we need?”)

NautArch

@SevenSidedDie Yes, but simply avoiding all legumes, grains, dairy, and sugars doesn't make a lot of sense nutritionally. Yes, there are other options, but as long as you are aware of what you're eating, how you're preparing it, and how often you do the stuff that you konw ain't good for you is better approach.

BanjoFox

I -do- miss my chocolate milk breakfasts, but replacing that with a couple of eggs isn't exactly "the worst thing ever"

NautArch

16:13

@BanjoFox well, chocolate milk breakfasts isn't exactly a healthy choice :)

BanjoFox

@NautArch -- but they are convenient and put calories in my system on my +1hr commute ^.^

SevenSidedDie

@NautArch Doesn't it? What that looks like to me is a low- but not no-carb diet. Cut out the simple sugars, cut out the digestively-difficult things (dairy), and cut out the sources of concentrated complex carbs (which were historically developed for cultures that were food-poor). What you're left with is easy protein sources, and lots of nutrient-rich vegetables that your body has to work to get the carbs from.

BanjoFox

plus I like fruit so it helps with the sugary cravings XD

SevenSidedDie

I haven't read up on Whole 30 (and it might be faddish), but if steak + grilled veggies is typical, that sounds pretty good to me. :)

NautArch

@SevenSidedDie Agreed. I guess I'm saying that it's easy to cut things out completely rather than looking at a more 'everything in moderation' type of approach paired with exercise. There are still things in dairy that we need. Yes, youc an find them in other sources, but then you have to go find them.

Now, if you'll excuse me, it's time for my fried meatball hoagie (just kidding. not ordering that, but they sell it at my sandwich shop)

SevenSidedDie

16:16

@BanjoFox My partner cut out sugary snacks even longer ago, and has good news: you stop craving them after a while, as if your taste buds tune “down” to notice the remaining, lower sugar. And then the old sugary stuff is too sweet and you don't want it. So persevere! :)

BanjoFox

@SevenSidedDie -- it may well be. the idea is that in the course of 30-days you re-evaluate your relationship with food. i.e. maybe DONT have 2 candy bars ;)

@SevenSidedDie -- tuning down taste buds is exactly one of the purposes for whole 30 hahah

SevenSidedDie

@BanjoFox Ah, that's what the name is about. I'm all for re-evaluating food relationships.

NautArch

@BanjoFox or don't eat any in general. Want a sweet? Bake cookies or something yourself from scratch. They're better tasting and better for you.

SevenSidedDie

@BanjoFox I think it took them longer than 30 days to notice the different taste of sugar, but it's a good start. (Tip: 100% chocolate has no sugars or dairy…)

BanjoFox

@NautArch -- I do have really good family cookie recipies :P doesn;t mean that it is okay to eat half a batch ;)

@SevenSidedDie -- I know... my partner is all about putting 100% cacao in her coffee.

NautArch

16:18

I've been trying to convince my wife to stop buying sugary cookies (oreos, etc) and we should just bake them ourselves. But she grew up eating those and doesn't want to break the habit (even though she's teaching our kids that habit.) Sadly, I've lost my war on that and sugary cereals. THere's only so many times I can ask her to stop before I risk marital problems :)

BanjoFox

@NautArch -- I have a book how to make Oreo's from scratch ;)

SevenSidedDie

@NautArch We went that way too. Stopped buying cookies, started baking them. Turns out that when you have to make them yourself, even if you eat the whole batch in a day between two people, it's still way less over time because we had to make them if we wanted them again. We made lots at first and then it fell off.

GreySage

@NautArch My wife stress eats, so we decided that instead of eating cookies etc., we would make popcorn. low calorie, no sweets.

BanjoFox

Look up "Todd Wilbur Top Secret Recipies" at your book depository of choice.

SevenSidedDie

@NautArch One thing a friend of mine does is buy sugary cereal, but mix it in with something non-sweet like Cheerios. She takes a long time to go through one box of sugary cereal, and still enjoys it a lot.

BanjoFox

16:22

nice :)

SevenSidedDie

@NautArch Long-term for kids, being a counter-example can help too. As adults, remembering that Mom ate sugary cereal and so did they, but Dad ate it cut with Cheerios, is a memory that gives them a path toward moderating as adults.

doppelgreener

@NautArch do you promise to love, and comfort, and keep them despite sugary or non-sugary cereal habits, and...

NautArch

@SevenSidedDie I've let them eat it for bkfst, but I never eat them. If they want cereal for dinner their sole option is my cereal: corn flakes. And they like it and sometimes they eat outside of dinner.

@SevenSidedDie I also had no idea how sugary honey nut cheerios is. It's worse than Apple Jack's.

SevenSidedDie

@NautArch That's a good precedent then. :)

BanjoFox

TEA TIME... brb

SevenSidedDie

16:32

@NautArch Yeah, super-sugary. The only cereal we keep around is plain Cheerios (a long-standing habit since she was a toddler, since it's an ideal learning food), but I very occasionally get a box of something like Life.

Trish

@NautArch I love my sweets... but then again, I can sit on the couch doing nothing and burn through 2000 kcal

@SevenSidedDie I keep a bog of plain cornflakes at home... for binge eating them dry or with milk if the bread turns out not to be good in the morning.

doppelgreener

@NautArch i remember having cinnamon toast crunch while i was in seattle and whoa, that was sweet. (but also delicious. cinnamon!)

Trish

@doppelgreener White Bread, butter and cinnamon coated suggar?! YESSS!"

BanjoFox

hahah :D

NautArch

@doppelgreener my australian friend doesn't understand the american obsession with cinnamon.

doppelgreener

16:43

@NautArch i'm an australian and i didn't know there was one, but cinnamon is my favorite spice.

BanjoFox

@NautArch When we hosted foreign students we learned 2 things. Rootbeer and peanut butter are EXTREMELY American XD

NautArch

@doppelgreener that's because it's delicious.

doppelgreener

@NautArch correct

Ryan

I need to come up with some character names. Do you all usually go with stuff that sounds fantasy? Goofy simple names? Ridiculously long names?

doppelgreener

i've discovered that when cooking red meat mince for pasta, if i add cinnamon, the red meat actually tastes sweet. (i haven't found a reason to want to do that again, but i'll probably run into it someday.)

also, cinnamon and sugar on french toast is amazing.

Delioth

16:45

@Ryan I play anagrams with words that relate to the character

SevenSidedDie

@BanjoFox My aforementioned friend is Canadian but 1st-generation and family is Polish. They never ate peanut butter at home, always Nutella. She thinks peanut butter is really weird. I can kinda see her point now, too: ground-up hardened peas spread on toast.

BanjoFox

@Ryan -- When I am at a complete lack for name ideas.. I go with random name generators :)

@SevenSidedDie yeah basically XD

NautArch

@Ryan depends on my character race, backstory, etc. Sometimes I just use names I like.

doppelgreener

@Ryan yes. all. any. Usually my gut suggests a name and I go with that one sooner or later. I also go with names other people suggest -- even if they don't fit, because parents don't have the ability to see the future when they name their kid.

In a Dresden Files game I played a big half-troll DJ who stood 8-foot-something and was very strong, and his name was Harold.

SevenSidedDie

@doppelgreener That's really interesting. I'll have to try that sometime. Hmm… when I'm not cooking vegan and not cooking for my Albertan meat-and-potatoes friends… Hm.

Delioth

16:49

My Dwarf Linguist is an anagram of JRR Tolkein's name, whose horse is an anagram of shadowfax. If anagrams don't cut it, translations of words into languages that kinda fit the race- dwarves gaelic names with a little bits of slavic languages, orcs get mostly slavic stuff. If that doesn't cut it... generators it is

doppelgreener

@SevenSidedDie It doesn't take much, I added only maybe 0.5-1 teaspoon.

Trish

@Ryan Depüends on race and background...

doppelgreener

Mostly I added it because my chilli con carne involves about 7 herbs+spices and that's the only one that was in my cupboard at the time which I hadn't already added.

Ryan

Maybe I should walk into a Starbucks and ask them to just write down a random name on the cup

Random Name Generator IRL

NautArch

@doppelgreener I often put cinnamon in my chili,

SevenSidedDie

16:50

The last character I made (Fate, homebrew setting, misfit monsters in college), was a young vampire theatre major. I looked up Vampires in Fiction, found a Wikipedia article, and just started browsing. He's Gabriel Blackthorne, “Gabe” to his friends.

GreySage

@SevenSidedDie The last character I made had a very nice, flowing name. My PCs started calling him Fred for some reason, and then it stuck.

Ryan

So far I've got: "Jasper Jones the 4th" or maybe joke with Gam of Thrones and make it something ridiculous like "Jasper Jones the 4th, second in line to the crown of Urinthia, Father of Porcupines, Cleric of the Rotting Swamp, and Breaker of Worlds." the other names I'm leaning towards are "Steve" or "Paps"

NautArch

@Ryan what's the race?

Ryan

Human Cleric in one game and Elf Druid in another game. Not sure where the Druid is heading yet. The Cleric is going to be in Greyhawk

NautArch

@Ryan for elves, I often take liberally from welsh words. Find a word that describes them in my language that I like and then look up the welsh word for it. Sounds elvish, has a meaning i like :)

I made a wizard who was too smart for his own good, so did a bit of a play on words for Rhys Deallus (Too intelligent)

SevenSidedDie

16:59

@GreySage This is the danger with unusual names, yeah…

doppelgreener

My chilli con carne recipe:
- 1 diced onion, cooked on medium heat in coconut oil. Once it's begun to sizzle, crush 2 cloves of garlic and add those. Take the onion+garlic out when the onion's starting to go transparent and before it begins to brown.
- 500g of lean mince beef, cook 'til it's mostly brown.
- 400g tomato soup (*not* cream of tomato). If you're working with pure tomato, remember to add the brown sugar to counteract the sourness and acidity. Pour over the meat & add the onion and garlic mix back in.

NautArch

@doppelgreener I like to mix mince beef along with cubed beef

doppelgreener

@NautArch i've never tried that! sounds nice.

SevenSidedDie

@doppelgreener That sounds really good.

doppelgreener

@SevenSidedDie it's so good.

NautArch

17:02

@doppelgreener I've got a very complicated recipe for mine...but it is mighty tasty.

doppelgreener

@NautArch i'm interested to hear it! :D

NautArch

@doppelgreener delicious chili

doppelgreener

@NautArch what is "chuck"?

NautArch

@doppelgreener not the IT guy

BanjoFox

@doppelgreener short answer: it is a cut of meat

NautArch

17:06

@BanjoFox *generally cheap cut of meat

BanjoFox

@NautArch - that would have been too verbose ;)

SevenSidedDie

Chuck steak

Chuck steak is a cut of beef and is part of the sub primal cut known as the chuck. The typical chuck steak is a rectangular cut, about 1" thick and containing parts of the shoulder bones, and is often known as a "7-bone steak," as the shape of the shoulder bone in cross section resembles the numeral '7'. This cut is usually grilled or broiled; a thicker version is sold as a "7-bone roast" or "chuck roast" and is usually cooked with liquid as a pot roast. The bone-in chuck steak or roast is one of the more economical cuts of beef. In the United Kingdom, this part is commonly referred to as "braising...

NautArch

The really important bits I've found are browning of the meat and the use of Mexene chili powder

SevenSidedDie

So, “braising steak” in non-Americanspeak, I guess? Yeah, it's often what ground/minced beef is made from.

doppelgreener

> Q: What's a rogue's favorite cut of meat?
A: The shank

3

(i'm not apologising)

NautArch

17:11

@SevenSidedDie if you're lucky. What goes into those grinders can be unknown.

Ryan

wee just got the Player's Handbook, Monster Manual, and Dungeon Master's Guide for $50 off ebay. Seems like a good deal

NautArch

@Ryan which edition?

Ryan

@NautArch 1st

SevenSidedDie

@NautArch Reputable butchers and supermarket suppliers go a long way. (We're a bit better off here in Canada because our beef supply is highly managed, and imported beef is limited by law. Makes the supply chain easier to regulate and oversee, for a price.)

BanjoFox

I miss the butcher shop that I used to live near :(

NautArch

17:13

@SevenSidedDie Absolutely. I've also had words with my wife about buying ground meat from the standard grocery store.

BanjoFox

@NautArch -- Sounds like you need a meat grinder :P

SevenSidedDie

@Ryan That's a pretty standard going rate for those these days, I think. Good buy. :) I got mine for about the same, but in separate eBay lots. (I got two PHBs, because table copy.)

Ryan

@SevenSidedDie most that i saw were about 20-30 each so seemed like I was getting buy 2 get 1 free and saving a bit on shipping by buying them together

NautArch

@BanjoFox I do. Keep wanting to buy the attachment for my standing mixer. Haven't done it yet.

SevenSidedDie

@Ryan Oh, they've gone up a few dollars then. Yeah, $50 for the bunch is a good deal.

I think I got my PHBs for $15 each, but that was a while ago. Odd that they're going up now, when the PDFs and reprints are available. Maybe there's more demand or less supply now.

godskook

17:16

@doppelgreener There's also the Flank

SevenSidedDie

@godskook Beloved of rogues, but only in 3.x and 4e.

(TSR cows have no flanks, and with Cow 5e it's optional.)

6

BanjoFox

LOL

godskook

I've realized something about my PCs. No matter how much foreshadowing I do about energy damage coming up, they still will not buy Energy Resistance for the purpose of surviving that damage. Worse, with the exception of one outlier PC, I don't think any of them have EVER purchased energy resistance for any reason whatsoever.

BanjoFox

cries a lil on the inside because... work reasons..

godskook

The aforementioned outlier PC swapped a class feature for cold resistance so that he didn't have to buy a heavy coat to go mountain-climbing.

"You're going to be fighting 3 Dragons in a week, and you'll be within spitting(read: 2 blocks) distance of [City full of Artificers] the entire time" didn't work.

NautArch

17:24

@godskook Disco Inferno time.

godskook

"The enemy is using suicide cultists wearing necklaces of fireballs. Here's how these necklaces work. THey're very volatile, with lots of fire damage, but low dice per boom." didn't work either.

Delioth

@godskook Don't need to worry about explosions if you kill the exploders before they get close. Arrow of Slaying to the knee > Necklace of Fireballs

SevenSidedDie

@godskook The modern D&D paradigm devalues equipment in favour of (non-alienable) inherent powers. It sounds like they might not want to invest simply because it's a dead-end investment of their advancement resources (gold), or fear losing it (even worse). 5e alters this a little, but is flexible enough that it still can be played for gold-as-advancement-mechanic and PCs-are-intrinsic-superheroes.

Adam

Fire - The Crazy World Of Arthur Brown @ TOTP 1968

►

godskook

@SevenSidedDie I'm still of a 3.5 school of thought on this kind of thought.

Ryan

17:30

@Adam Its so cold outside, let me in!

SevenSidedDie

@godskook Late 3.5 was even more culturally focused on gold being carefully invested in permanent, general-use magic items that are part of a build. I don't know how your players are thinking about it, but in a 3.5 build, expendables have to be really a) reliable, b) obviously overpowered, c) cheap (pick at least two) in order for scarce resources to be invested in them.

godskook

@SevenSidedDie Energy resistance is not an "expendable" in every form.

SevenSidedDie

@godskook It's true. The one player choosing an intrinsic ability instead of equipment is what makes me suspect (at a significant distance :) that there might be some hoarding going on in combination with a cost/benefit calculation being made.

Delioth

@godskook But it also isn't something that's a part of a build. It's a collateral and nice addition, but very few characters need 10 cold resistance for their build to function. It's a specific countermeasure while most builds are focused towards more general countermeasures: kill the thing that would be a problem, or have enough statuses that one will work.

godskook

@SevenSidedDie That character was a Totemist, and he swapped a soulmeld.

@Delioth Collateral stats is a fair point.

SevenSidedDie

17:34

@godskook So a fairly low-risk thing. Yeah, I'm suspecting aversion to extra-curricular building.

godskook

@SevenSidedDie "extra-curricular" ~= "collateral"?

SevenSidedDie

@godskook By analogy, yeah.

(This sort of subtle behavioural shift is why my enjoyment of AD&D and earlier isn't just the nostalgia that people often assume of OSR types! :)

Delioth

Extra-curricular is probably a better term

SevenSidedDie

@Delioth Collateral (adj.) is precisely the correct word though, and there's something to say for using just the right word. :)

Canada: where the electric kettle I just bought comes with stickers to cover the buttons with French alternatives, the volume markers are in metric, but the temperatures on the button labels in both the English default text and French stickers' text are in °F. This is pretty emblematic.

Delioth

It's just mostly that if you're, say, fighting white dragons which deal a bunch of cold damage... you could get a cloak of cold resistance. But that would (in 3.5/pathfinder) lower your saves since you couldn't wear the cloak which increases saves. It might block 10 damage off of each breath, so if it blocks 50 damage it's worth 50 hp... but the increased saves might be more effective. A wand of healing would be more efficient and versatile.

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