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00:03
@C.Ross Hi!
how are thing guys?
pretty good :)
contemplating the matrial arts
frantically planning for a day long session of Savage Worlds I have on Sunday
all good stuff
but I must be bug fixign
might float a "problem character" idea here in a bit if I fix bugs before bed
@C.Ross how're the bugs going?
00:09
@doppelgreener that late crash bug that always crops up, otherwise not much
@C.Ross oh dear
@C.Ross Ooer.
00:35
@user11230 Hi! You'll need at least 20 rep on any one Stack Exchange site before you can type in chat rooms, but you're welcome to hang out until then.
The last line concerns me: if the PHB isn't out yet, the player can't play a monk. When it is out, they can play a monk and find out if it's bad.
But it's still a valid question to ask.
But the PHB isn't out yet!!
But there's advance copies apparently? So some people can answer this.
It's one of those cases where our citizens need to exercise self-control and not give bad answers just because they can't yet give good ones.
If I could slap a "protect" on it, I would.
@BESW Well, it's not so much a concern over whether good answers are available, it's a concern over whether any answers are available. You either have access to the monk rules, or you don't.
@doppelgreener Yeah, it's out through stores that signed up to Wizard's special... event... thing... and also some online stores have shipped early
@Adeptus Ah, so it is in circulation. Ok.
00:41
I flagged it for moderator attention as having potential for going nuclear.
Apr 2 '13 at 2:56, by Brian Ballsun-Stanton
@BESW I suggest an annual Don't mention Monks, Vow of Poverty, or physics... year.
some people just aren't into the spirit of our annual traditions
@BESW no close votes though?
It's not yet half an hour old...
I'm just seeing that it hits at least three of this site's hot-button triggers.
Hrm. I could have sworn that we had a question asking if the monk always suffered from its problems. Or at the very least, that we had an answer quoting a contemporary review of the monk from, I dunno, AD&D, or BD&D, where even back then the class suffered from MAD and was generally awful despite looking awesome.
Just a day or two ago I saw an answer get turned into a soapbox for other citizens' grievances, and it'd be nice to not have that happen again.
@doppelgreener Maybe you're thinking of bard?
00:49
@BESW I'm sure it was the monk. It was talking about how it looked pretty impressive and could do all these things, but it suffered majorly from MAD and apparently really just sucked at all the things it was capable of. And I was like: "Ha, wow, that's exactly all the problems it has in modern incarnations."
And I would not think that about the Bard, because the Bard is great and doesn't suck.
(It's not omnipotent, but it's not terrible.)
The early version of the bard was insane to access though.
It had the multiclass equivalent of MAD.
Apparently they went, "Okay, so the bard is a jack of all trades. That means he has to have levels in every class, right? That seems reasonable."
@BESW whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa‌​aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?
Ayuh. Bard was one of the first precursors to prestige classes, and "having levels in lots of other classes" was a prerequisite.
> To become a bard, a human or half-elf had to begin with very high ability scores: Strength 15+, Wisdom 15+, Dexterity 15+ and Charisma 15+, Intelligence 12+ and Constitution 10+. These daunting requirements made bards one of the rarest character classes.
Bards began the game as fighters, and after achieving 5th level (but before reaching 8th level), they had to dual-class as a thief, and after reaching 5th level as a thief (but before reaching 9th level), they had to dual-class again to druid. Once becoming a druid, the character then progressed as a bard, but under druidic tutelage.
That seems reasonable crazy
Sometimes it's very easy to view the OSR as rising from a kind of Stockholm syndrome.
00:59
@BESW EXPLAAAIIIN
Stockholm syndrome, or capture-bonding, is a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and sympathy and have positive feelings toward their captors, sometimes to the point of defending and identifying with them. These feelings are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, who essentially mistake a lack of abuse from their captors for an act of kindness. The FBI's Hostage Barricade Database System shows that roughly 8% of victims show evidence of Stockholm syndrome. Stockholm syndrome can be seen as a form of traumatic bonding, which...
Stockholm syndrome: "a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and sympathy and have positive feelings toward their captors, sometimes to the point of defending and identifying with them."
21
Q: What defines the "old school renaissance"?

Adam DrayI'm aware that the old school renaissance (OSR) is all about hearkening back to old versions of D&D and the play styles of the 70's and 80's, but what characteristics really define this movement? What minimum set of qualities does my game play require to be "old school"?

IE: Given things like the insanity of 1e bards, and other elements of those early games, the movement to defend that playstyle and recreate it in the modern era could easily be framed as a kind of Stockholm-style insanity.
Oh, right, I was thinking of TSR somehow.
@BESW Yes this makes sense.
Not saying it is, of course. Just that it would be very easy to create a biased account to support such a conclusion.
@MadMAxJr Aaaahhh, Twilight Imperium 3... the game we look back upon with fond memories of WHY DOES THIS GAME TAKE SO MANY HOURS THIS IS RIDICULOUS
(I am not actually fond of it myself :D It has a lot of things that make the game not very fun for me.)
01:20
I have come to very much appreciate simpler games.
(And then my friends went and bought Caverna.)
 
4 hours later…
05:26
...quiet here today
Yup.
 
1 hour later…
06:46
[wave]
[wavers]
[tips over]
Ahoy.
@BESW hi!
Well, I knew he was, but not in as much detail.
@Magician ...that pun.
06:48
@Magician oh wow. i have to go out, but i will sure be checking this later. ttfn!
@BESW ...unintentional, to the point where I don't actually see it.
@Magician One of Dionysus's characteristics in art was being portrayed as an androgynous youth, including underdeveloped genitalia.
Ahhh. Subtle!
But yeah, the guy's the embodiment of hedonism and intoxication. He's going to be a massive jerk.
He's basically the really coked-up leader of an exceptionally perverted and deranged college fraternity.
Except, yanno, with superpowers.
To be fair, all the Greek gods are kind of terrible to people, even if that's not part of their portfolio.
06:59
Yes.
I'm reminded of the Bastard in the Chalion setting.
Prayers to the other gods ask for their blessing and favour--fertility from the Daughter, wisdom from the Father, and so forth.
But most prayers to the Bastard are along the lines of "And please don't come anywhere near me, thanks."
Heh. I had a god of self-sufficiency, prayers to whom were mostly about bragging of things you were going to do in his name.
"Hold my beer Watch this!"
Ah, 4e Kord.
@BESW Was it his deal as well? I may have been inspired by Kord, can't remember.
My group exaggerated him a little, but not much.
> Kord is the storm god and the lord of battle. He revels in strength, battlefield prowess, and thunder. Fighters and athletes revere him. He is a mercurial god, unbridled and wild, who summons storms over land and sea; those who hope for better weather appease him with prayers and spirited toasts. He gives few commands:
✦ Be strong, but do not use your strength for wanton destruction.
✦ Be brave and scorn cowardice in any form.
✦ Prove your might in battle to win glory and renown.
He invented half-orcs because he saw orcs and thought "Not smart enough," and saw humans and thought "Not strong enough."
A priest of the Bastard concluding a sermon:
> Dy Cabon called down the fivefold benison, asking of each god the proper gifts, leading the respondents in praise in return. Of the Daughter, growth and learning and love; of the Mother, children, health, and healing; of the Son, good comradeship, hunting, and harvest; of the Father, children, justice, and an easy death in its due time.
“And the Bastard grant us, in our direst need, the smallest gifts: the nail of the horseshoe, the pin of the axle, the feather at the pivot point, the pebble at the mountain’s peak, the kiss in despair, the one right word. In darkness, understanding.”
(This is the same series with the idea of chaos demons which I shared with you re: Entropy.)
Interesting! It may have to go on my to-read list. Though it's a rather long list...
07:15
Lois McMaster Bujold's "Chalion" books. If you read only one of the three, read Paladin of Souls.
2
(If you're planning to read all three, it's slightly better to read them in order: Curse of Chalion, Paladin of Souls, The Hallowed Hunt, because each provides a little bit of spoiler for the general events of the previous.
(Each follows separate people in separate places, but all within the same world so stuff gets referenced. In particular, Paladin of Souls is about one minor side character from Curse of Chalion and how she deals with the fallout from that story; you don't need to know Curse to read Paladin, but Paladin spoils Curse a bit.)
@trogdor [wave] So, tomorrow: Raycia and maybe Ira, no Ben, but Hobbs and Dan on Skype. Lady Blackbird is the plan.
ok
LB was the plan last week too :P
not that I mind Cuthulu Dark
Yesss...
I do think I might like Lady Blackbird a little better? but not too much
they both have some different pros and cons
I am pleased that I managed to finally managed to lose a character in Cuthulu Dark
And some day Hobbs wants to run something for us, probably in Fate.
without actually trying to I mean
cause technically I could have decided not to let that character die, but at that point I had role played him into a glorious corner where he absolutely needed to fight that stuffed orangutan.
07:35
It was narratively inevitable at that point, yes.
I probably would have done something different if I was not still at 5 insanity by that point
 
1 hour later…
08:45
so no Ben, and Ira is just a maybe?
Right.
09:09
that sucks a little, but at least Raycia is still coming, and Hobbs and Dan are good too
Yeah, Ben's gonna be off island.
ah ok
Morning
I just figured he had work
I must have forgotten that he was gonna be gone for a bit
morning
Hey.
09:23
cause I do seem to vaguely remember him saying he would be off island for a bit, but I could also be imagining that now that I know he will be
Raycia will show up around three or four. Depending on various factors, she might want to talk about Bahá'í stuff for a while before dinner.
09:36
Yo dawg, I heard you like claws, so I put claws on yo claws.
Also, I believe that feet can be claws.
10:00
[eyeroll] I have absolutely no patience with answers that flat-out say they know they can't be a good answer until the question is improved.
heh, just read that
peeps with high rep really, really should know better
 
1 hour later…
11:13
Okay, folks, looking for tracks to fit a new music theme: Russian Steampunk Space Opera Soundtrack.
As always, I prefer music with minimal/unintelligible vocals and no jarring transitions.
Any suggestions?
11:26
specifically Russian Steampunk Space Opera?
Looking for things to play as ambience in an RPG with that setting/feel.
I immediately thought of something, but it has two mostly intelligible words repeated in it and a monkey repeatedly making noises (or at least a pretend monkey)
It is also honestly pretty repetative
Well, link it? It might be a starting point to find usable stuff.
the only Russian in it is a countdown, I think
at the very least, at any rate, it is supposed to sound russian
mk, just a sec
err maybe this version is a little better, but I think it might still trip some of your no nos
anyway, here is "probably" the best version of it
its a character theme from a game that I was excited about at one point
and I liked some of the character themes so I checked out at least most of them
this one isn't exactly my favorite but I remembered it
it isn't strictly steampunk either, I would think.
11:52
@trogdor Did the video game Metro 2033 sound particularly Russian?
uh
I don't remember
the music in particular right?
Yeah.
my brother was the one who played it
I just watched a couple times
I hadn't read the book, so I had no particular interest in the story, and it looked like a mostly story based first person shooter with some horror elements to me
[youtube]
Meh, not working for me.
But...
Video games that take place in Russia during all three major eras of its existence (Russian Empire, Soviet Union, and Russian Federation)....
Morning
12:01
Hey.
12:12
Hmm. Maybe just something from soma...
@C.Ross Hey again!
I believe you had a "problem character" idea you might float?
12:46
So Kord is the god of strength. I have a character who would almost fit a god like that but he doesn't really use Strength exactly. He uses his dexterity. Would a character like that really fit Kord as a worshiper?
Sure! Kord likes anybody who combines body and mind to do gloriously awesome things.
My players felt that Kord is the kind of guy who greets a soul in the afterlife by handing you a beer and sitting on a couch with you to watch slo-mo replays of your most awesome deeds.
he does look like he goes in a bit more for raw power than dex, but he's the god of athletes too. It's almost more how your character thinks about himself in that sense. If Kord seems like the guy for him, Kord should be
@BESW the John Madden of D&D deities?
(he's soooo have a telestrator)
It's less about "Are you really strong?" and more about "Do you dedicate your athleticism to being AWESOME and GLORIOUS and BRAVE and to LEG-SWEEPING PEOPLE WHO ARE MEAN?"
Hmmm.
I might have to change him a bit to fit but I think it will be a good change.
I consider his primary character note to be that he invented half-orcs: a people defined by strength and aggression, but tempered by the intelligence and wisdom to channel their physical power into productive outlets.
12:52
Right now I play him very Paladiny (not the in your face type. The lead by example type) It wouldn't be that hard to arrange Acheron getting his ass handed to him and deciding he needs to get stronger.
Then finding a Temple of Kord.
I find it somewhat amusing I play him like a Paladin but am a magus wizard.
Kord is, basically, the god of well-meaning murderhoboes.
7
@BESW ... Sums up Acheron quite well.
Are you needlessly violent and consider every challenge an opportunity to show off how powerful you are, but you still try to do the right thing and only decapitate bad people? Kord's your guy.
I'm trying to determine which of your last two statements to star
I think both
I'm playing in a strange P6 game
Where you get to gestalt one level at a time, for double the xp cost
so level 1 is 2k, level 2 is 4k, level 3 is 6k, etc
feats are still 5k a pop
Generally the idea is to star one thing from a conversation which is representative of it, so the star list is an overview of notable topics/events in chat for those who come in later. I will use my room owneryness to enforce just starring one of my comments; I feel more comfortable doing that when it's my own comments I'm unstarring.
12:58
Can you put both comments in the same post?
That solves everything
Not anymore; it'd take a proper mod to edit them now, and that's overkill.
bleh
If people want to see the rest of the conversation, they can click through to the transcript.
I've already got four of the top five starred comments on the list.
The Gunsmithing one was good though
Haha, I just noticed I got one with my "yes or no" comment
(Last year there was a rumour that if the visible star list ever became entirely dominated by me, it would kick-start Armageddon.)
13:00
I have to do this now.
clicks 10 times
Is anyone aware of a way to get domains in pathfinder if you are not a class that gets domains?
There is none, to my knowledge
Inquisitor, Druid, Cleric are the only ways I know
3.5 got a lot of silly domain feats toward the end of its run.
( from the base classes)
When anyone says "pathfinder" I automatically exclude 3.5 unless they specify 3.5 is allowed
@BESW Silly as in broken or just silly haha?
13:03
@Aaron Silly as in "Now you're just trying to see if we're paying attention."
@Mourdos 3.5 is allowed with DM approval I always try to find the pathfinder route first.
@BESW oooooh. I should look at these. They sound amusing.
I'm aware of the rule, but every DM I've had for pathfinder disallowes 3.5
Mostly high-flavour low-power, but written with such little attention to detail and interaction with other features that they sometimes managed to do amusingly powerful things in very small niches.
Got any examples?
@BESW That actually happened about 3 months ago - you've just not noticed it yet
13:05
Someone was just asking a question over skype about the oracles curses: "By the way, who thought that making a class feature for a spellcasting class that gives you a 20% failure chance on casting spells would be a good idea?"
@Mourdos Our DM is rather lenient.
Morning
@Aaron Complete Champion, I think.
@BESW I think I have seen this happen a few times
13:07
@Aaron I've seen it happen relatively frequently, because my screen/browser size means it only takes four to six comments depending on length.
I see 10
@BESW Same here. I wish I could minimize the "Who is in the room" Thing sometimes
What does PrC mean?
>Is there any method (feat, PrC or otherwise) for gaining access to Domains' abilities and spells for non-Clerics?
Prestige Class.
Ah
@Mourdos Did you say you knew the feat in 3.5 that gave you access to a domain? I am looking for it now as I couldn't find anything in Pathfinder
I'm actually happier when I've got no more than one or two comments in the top five on the star list; it means the room's got more going on than just me gabbing away.
13:11
@Aaron Nope. I said I only knew of 3 classes in pathfinder
I still can't do this
Night
@Aaron Planar Touchstone seems the way
@kadu [wave]
oh man new cat photo
@BESW , how are you tonight?
13:16
Professionally frustrated, but looking forward to tomorrow night's RPGing.
@JoshuaAslanSmith That's ridiculously cute
@BESW makes two of us, except the RPGing part haha
I think I'll delete I'll my answers
I have 666 reputation
@kadu the title was "Furry Florist"
@JoshuaAslanSmith Where is it from?
@kadu You'll need to make a much more "metal" Avatar if thats the case
@JoshuaAslanSmith Oh, my avatar is my business card
13:23
this deviantart account zoranphoto.deviantart.com
@JoshuaAslanSmith Not the chat one, the SE one
he/she takes super pro photos of cats only
ah im just seeing one of the default gravatar images
Yeah, that's what shows up in the chat for some reason
Oh, I had an idea
Zoran Photo's "Windy Day" was something I stumbled upon, besw likes that one too
now there we go
13:26
yep working
after I refreshed
your QR code looks apocalyptic
yeah, I hadn't linked
Hey, look, a twosies Cthulhu Dark plot!
And with that, I should be going to bed.
@JoshuaAslanSmith I just mixed it with a background picture of something like clouds
@BESW Night
@kadu Also sorta reminds me of "The sky was the color of a tv tuned to a dead channel."
@JoshuaAslanSmith Is that a reference I should know?
13:42
probably not, opening line of William Gibson's Neuromancer
long way to say grey hahaha
 
1 hour later…
14:46
Hmm. So Kord wouldn't fit in our setting but my DM said he sounds kinda like Thor
15:00
@BESW Do I have a thing for you! There is a Russian steampunk space opera. Kind of. Wikipedia describes it as "sci-fi dystopian black comedy cult film", which is slightly more accurate. Here's the symphonic version of the main theme, and here's a ska (?) version. You know, just in case.
15:18
Any fun news outta Gencon yet?
@MadMAxJr the 5e digital tools have a name. DungeonScape
so far that's the only big announcement I've seen
Are they going to do a virtual table this time or abandon it like they did with the last two iterations of D&D?
Its not going to be a "virtual table" like the 4e beta was or how roll20 works
@MadMAxJr no virtual table at this time. Mostly character building, and DM support, but you'll all be in the same...campaign space essentially
@MadMAxJr Theyve said things along the lines of speed up play, ease of access, and organization, but no automation
15:27
so you can pass notes and stuff, but it's to support IRL play not online
I'd like that. If I had an RL group.
(there is a dice roller though...so that's good)
im not even sure it will have dice rolling
oh okay
For now, I'll be hugging Roll20 very much.
Roll20 has some really great 5e support right now courtesy of a custom made in app character sheet they are supporting
15:28
@MadMAxJr we're pretty darned impressed with R20's 5e support
They want that player market /ASAP/
yeah I was blown away because nothing like this existed when I started to use roll20 for 4e 2 years ago
yep
I'm even fairly happy with the development pace on roll20. It's a nice step up from my previous tool, GameTable, AKA OSU-GT
I frankly didnt know that building a character sheet like the 5e one was possible, but roll20 might have opened up their API and/or it might have been an official roll20 project/feature request
Which hasn't been updated... in close to five years and has wonderful Java memory leaks
15:29
yeah they're very open about it and the forums and the wiki are a big deal when it comes to being able to use it fully
@MadMAxJr blech.
yeah java is not something that should really be used for anything anymore and it still does
The Pathfinder sheets in roll20 are rough. Not all the auto-calculations work or some are not intuitive unless you're a developer.
theres a bi-monthly security patch at this point
none of that with the 5e sheets
very easy to use
I won't be adopting 5E out of the gate. I feel burned by 4E.
15:31
wish they had the basic spells in it automagically from a list versus having to tyep them in
Not hating on it, I just want to see how it develops and what the acceptance rate of FUN is.
@MadMAxJr I feel burned by 5e
haha
as a 4e devotee
@JoshuaAslanSmith still lots of java devs out there. And it still runs a large part of the world...(like all of android)
Try 13th Age :)
Excuse me while I hide my java developer badge for a moment..
15:32
I did actually, 13th age was too story, without enough mechanics to back it up
or too many mechanics at times
@MadMAxJr heh, I learned on Java, it's a solid language. though I'm quite happy doing .net development
playing a fighter in 13th age was a headache
Did I hit and did I roll odd?
oh I can use this maneuver and this one too! missed and even? nope nothing
My coworker is a big advocate of 13th age. PF is closer to the d20 systems I'm familiar with from my game store days of 2000-2007. It's familiar, it's flexible enough for our needs, and it's the only thing my current play group knows.
@JoshuaAslanSmith It's different.
@Magician truthfully Dungeon World is the end all be all for me EXCEPT when it comes to tactical combat
I keep toying around with a 4e style combat conversion mod for Dungeon World
if I made it and it worked then Id never play anything except dungeon world forever and ever and ever
15:33
Every time someone mentions Dungeon World, I try to picture the phrase literally. A planetary sized dungeon.
An entire ecosystem of murderhobos
in terms how the story is structured and the GM makes moves it is in a sense a place where there is no respite/easy rest area
@JoshuaAslanSmith But... they are entirely different in every respect.
PF gives me one other nice crutch. A gigantic stack of modules/adventures.
@magician eh? I get what you are saying, the only part that drags in dungeon world for me is combat against similar, humaniod enemies, I think it handles big monster fights well because it gets more like a story at that point
I see dungeon world being very similar to 4e essentials
4E felt and read like programming literature to me. For I=0, I < goblin.count, I++ { sword.murder(goblin)};
And if you roll a 20, 15 different abilities kick in and dump dice on top. Radiant holy flaming icy acidic burst of the undying endless heavens
Admittedly, from what 4E content I had, the combat rules were pretty rigid and well defined with keywords.
Except for typos, like how cleave in first print allowed you to cleave back into the target you hit to begin with.
15:40
I think of 4e as more like a tactical wargame with RPG story string the combat together
Like XCOM Enemy Unknown/Enemy Within
... Note to self, notecard with red ink, HIDDEN MOVEMENT to be put in front of the DM screen during my turn.
 
2 hours later…
17:16
Have there been any good new idle games like cookie clicker lately?
 
1 hour later…
18:31
Ooh, Electorate‌​.
very nice
I have a question. @waxeagle you could probably help.
I have a question that is nearly identical to this one rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/44942/…
perhaps, though I'm about 2 minutes from starting a conf call, if you're quick, but I might disappear very quickly
The only difference is I want to include the fact that you can use quicken spell to make it a swift action. Could you cast one swift spell as a swift and then another as part of the full attack magus can do?
probably ok, but I don't know PF
18:38
Oh wait derp
My actual question was should I ask a new question even though they are so alike
@Aaron Yes, you should.
It's a different use case, as similar as it appears to be.
18:54
Any PF people here have experience with the Emerald Spire superdungeon?
0
Q: Magus spellstrike and spell combat

AaronRelated: Magus question: Combining spell strike and spell combat I was reading the Spell Combat and Spell Strike abilities of the Magus and was curious how they would interact with Quicken Spell. Quicken spell allows you to cast a spell with a casting time of less than 1 round or 1 full round as...

@MadMAxJr Nope. What is it?
@Aaron It's a sort of 'tomb of horrors' for PF. Kick in the door, kill the monster, get the loot style of play.
And bring 3 character sheets, cause yer gonna die.
@MadMAxJr Hmmm. I bet I could make a character that goes all the way
Intended level?
19:19
Starts at 1, I think it can run to 16ish by the lower floors.
There's a town on top with an initial quest and a source for sidequests that adds story elements to the dungeon. The emerald spire itself has a nice gateway mechanic that basically allows players to travel to the surface or completed floors with ease.
 
2 hours later…
21:15
0
Q: Should we prefer D&D 5E answers that reference the Basic Rules or the Player's Handbook?

GamerJoshFor example, I have the following answer: http://rpg.stackexchange.com/a/45270/9058. When I wrote the answer, the only official material available was the Basic Rules, so that's obviously where I quoted from. That's not the case anymore, and I could quote from either the Basic Rules or the Play...

21:54
0
Q: What to do with a partially answered question?

DrewSIf a question has an answer that partially answers the question, but not fully what should I do? Options Leave an answer that only answers the unanswered portion of the question. Con: May make for a short answer. Leave an answer that fully answers the question. Con: Duplicates the other answer...

 
1 hour later…
23:23
@Magician I knew I could count on you.
23:35
....now I have to track down the soundtrack.
23:51
@waxeagle So Java is claiming Android now? :-)

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