@SevenSidedDie Is this an analogy to GNU then?

@JonathanHobbs Specifically to info/texinfo files. Lots of GNU man pages are incomplete and just refer you to the info files, which requires a special reader that has an arcane UI and non-intuitive interface metaphors.

@SevenSidedDie oh dear. D:

and the reader refers you to the info files for info on it, which requires the reader?

this is like if the manual for operating a chainsaw correctly was inside a tree.

@JonathanHobbs Yeah. Granted, the info files for the info command do in fact explain it well, but having to review the tutorial every time I need to read an .info file (every three years or so) is a pain.

this is making me appreciate the documentation sources I do use all the more

@SevenSidedDie Hey Seven, is there a way to get text to line up (tabs) without using the preformatted text?

In answers

@DCShannon If you need stuff like columns, preformatted text seems to be the most reliable way. (Even tabs won't always be reliable, depending on peoples' fonts.)

I had preformatted text, but SevenSidedDie just edited my answer and removed it

Because it wasn't code

@DCShannon Sadly no. For simple this:that lists like that one we avoid the preformatted text, but if it's "really" a table then preformatted is the way to go.

Well that's underwhelming

There's probably a better way - bolding the names will make them stand out, using an — will space them further out from the classes.

Oh well, at least they're on separate lines, which is the main reason I had the preformatted text. Now I see I need to put two spaces on the end

@DCShannon Yeah, some kind of tab-stop support would be nice. It's more a limitation of HTML than our markup format though.

@DCShannon Yeah, that double-space end is totally unintuitive. That's why I usually assume that a preformatted list was just intended to be a linebreak-separated, because preformatted text is easier to discover how to use.

alright, thanks

Got to go. Later, all!

Bye SSD!

trawling twitter and saw they've released the map for the town of Phandalin, looks like a nice small town, good place to start an adventuring career

@SevenSidedDie Always nice to have you in chat!

So, this is going to go in one of my Storium games at some point.

what role is that? Or is that just him in normal life?

(cuz I'd buy it either way, dude is classy)

Context seems to be post-Hobbit celebration.

So... I think that's just Sir Ian being a Sir.

I can only assume Patrick Stewart is standing just off-camera in a T-shirt and cutoffs, with a big stick of cotton candy and a bigger grin.

@Emrakul If what work?

FAE and RFS are probably better than Microscope.

I'd also suggest Pilgrims of the Flying Temple if you've got it.

I've done it.

It's good to provide some structure, like my standby Tribute to the Dragon framework.

brb

Tribute to the Dragon is a generic Quest template.

During game prep the players identify something they care about (a roadside cafe, their village, a damsel) which is going to be destroyed by a powerful force (a corporation, bandits, a dragon) unless the party undertakes a dangerous journey to acquire something (blackmail information, a bribe or gift) and bring it to that force, then negotiate for the safety of what they value.

And that's the session: acquire the tribute, make the dangerous journey, and confront the threatening force.

@Emrakul Problematic and I came up with it together (but mostly him) a while back for a twosie FAE game.

I've played it with a dragon threatening a village; a galactic corporation wanting to tear down an asteroid diner; a carpenter saving his house from bandits...

@Emrakul Suggestion for starting FAE games fast and improv-y: Players start with High Concept, Trouble, and one aspect relating to another PC at the table; their highest Approach; and one Stunt. Everything else gets filled in during play.

If you want to provide pre-made character sheets, look at adventure modules like Aeon Wave for how to do that with class and style, providing the players with enough framework to start but also enough room to customise.

One nice way to do pre-made characters is to have fill-in-the-blank aspects, like high concept "Gunslinging _____."

You can provide a bank of suggested words or not as you feel is appropriate.

(Gunslinging Priest/Clown/Elf/Classical Musician)

Which bit? I talk a lot.

Ah, yeah. Problematic has good ideas.

It's done me good for introducing Fate to new players on several occasions, and I imagine it'd be useful in nearly any system if the GM wants to give the players room to create the story but provide a solid framework for them to work inside.

Aye. Usually I have the Dangerous Journey be a Fate challenge, and one consequence of failing a check in the challenge can be zooming in to that particular part of the journey as a contest or conflict.

@panav2000k Hi!

The "fail forward" concept should be applied aggressively.

For example, one player failed to make the Overcome check to spend the night in the woods safely. So we had a contest where he was being chased by wolves.

He outran them, but took consequences in the process.

Later he failed the Overcome to climb the mountain. Instead of zooming in, he took "success at cost" --and the cost was that he lost the tribute, so he'd face the dragon without it.

(Had the wolves run him down, the contest would have ended in a conflict, and so forth.)

One party decided to start with the Tribute and focus on the Journey and the Dragon.

So each group can decide which of the three elements to make most important.

Maybe if you can successfully get the Tribute and make the Journey, you automatically succeed on mollifying the Dragon.

Too many rules and too much of a style shift to drop on people suddenly and unexpectedly, I think.

Microscope needs a very different kind of mental space.

But maybe I just don't have enough experience with it.

@JonathanHobbs If you're still following Scale Island, there's a new scene with two moves.

And the winner of today's "I hope this doesn't become a Hot Network Question" goes to...

Hot Network Questions and the death of context.

I love how people clicked into Brian's Black Pudding question thinking it's on Cooking.SE.

@lisardggY Hee, yes.

And then this.

Lovely, joined the Gaming.se to ask about Skyrim exploits, and within 15 minutes of posting my first question I already have two downvotes. wtf?!

And I checked their rules, nothing saying you can't ask about exploits and useful glitches...

I don't hang out on Arqade much, but the feeling I got from some flags on their chatroom leads me to believe it's not as friendly as RPG.se.

Starting to notice that already... Chances are I won't be going back in the future.

Also, I'm not much of a gamer, so the only questions there that interested me where identify-that-game questions for old 90's games I loved. But then they nuked the tag and made it off-topic, so off I went.

lovely

All my rep was gone when they erased the questions. :-/

(Not that much rep, but still)

sounds to me they're a bunch of pretentious purists.

*shrug*. I don't know about that. Don't know them well enough.

And "identify that X" was a topic of StackExchange-wide discussion a few years back, and most sites decided to forbid them.

this is based on first impression. and i know first impressions are usually missing info, but they also matter. with my current first impression I'm not likely to go back.

If someone would comment about what I apparently did wrong, then maybe I could fix it, instead of just downvoting at random.

Downvotes sting, I know, but they really don't mean much.

"Someone, somewhere on the internet, disagreed".

Right, but it also causes people to ignore the question instead of answering it. If they downvoted and said something in a comment that'd be useful, but just downvoting a noob to the site without saying jack about why, well that's just mean.

Seems like the community consensus there clearly supports talking about cheats/exploits for single-player games. Skyrim is just single-player, right?

Maybe you should edit your question, linking to that meta post and explicitly saying "I'm not trying to gain unfair advantage in multiplayer/online games", just to establish that you're aware of the community standards.

That's usually good for a couple of upvotes from community-minded people. :)

i'll keep tht in midn later, that's too much work and i'm getting tired fast....... got startled out of a daze by someone tagging me in the other chat...

@Dorian I suspect it may have more to do with the fact you're asking for a link to an off-site resource, for which the link can go dead and render answers themselves less useful. I recently asked for just such a thing here and it's ok, but other SEs have different policies.

@BESW mk

@trogdor We should see if we can start early though, because Adib gets kinda punchy starting around 8:30 or 9pm.

mk

I'll check with Ben.

I'm okay to do normal Princes or try a pony version, whichever people prefer.

Your game is still great @DampeS8N

@trogdor Would you rather play normal Princes' Kingdom, or a ponified version?

uh, I dunno

I don't think it makes the biggest difference to me

Hello.

This fight scene is just insane (Storium)

Hooray! I got to use my Fate vampire idea for an answer!

@RedRiderX I'm glad you are enjoying it! :) I'm working on getting images for the player and all the enemies.

@DampeS8N Oh that would be interesting, where would they show up?

In the status screen?

@RedRiderX in that blank spot above the battle text

Ah right that would make sense :P

@RedRiderX Speaking of, your avatar is pixel art, did you make it?

Heh yeah

Do you want some advice or help with the pixel art?

@RedRiderX Nope. I am looking for someone who wants to make it. Want to make the art?

Hmm, I'm no expert, but how much do you think you would need?

The full avatar, by the way

@RedRiderX Depends on if I ever stop adding quests. Let me count up what I have.

Heh

Did you have a specific style or color depth in mind?

@RedRiderX There are already over 100 monsters/bosses. My vision is something inbetween Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy from the NES using the ugly ass NES palette.

Hmm and what general sprite size were you thinking?

Ah okay, pretty early on stuff, not much room for shading

And you're set on that dark black outline?

Though there might not be a choice with that palette.

@RedRiderX Nope, the palette and that it should be like an NES rpg are as far as I am willing to dictate

Do you want the boss sprites to be a bit bigger or no?

Hmm 100 might take a while to do :P

I could play with one or two monsters today and see what you think of the output

@RedRiderX Sounds good to me. As for the full 100+, I think it would be wise to start with the bosses. I am considering doing a kickstarter at some point.

@DampeS8N Ah bosses sound like a good idea

Do you plan on multiple player avatars?

@RedRiderX yes, but one unisex one should suffice for the time being. There are still about 30 bosses, btw. lol

Heh okay

@DampeS8N Hmm I'm not fighting one now, so name an early boss

I'm think the sprites might get a little more insane as the bosses do, so maybe I'll start at the beginning.

all the quests are in the source, but the first 3 bosses are: Slime King, True Slime King, and Zombie True Slime King

Ah right the slime king, who could forget!

>_>

<_<

:d

:D

welp, finally happened...I'm D/Ling the pokemon tcg rule book. Someone at summer camp gave my 5yr old a stack of cards (we gave him some for xmas, but not enough to play with). Now to figure out how much this is going to cost me....

Oh, my!

My wife works at the local game store, so she deals with the Pokemon crowd regularly. But it also means I get her discount on RPG and X-wing stuff.

very nice, I'm not too concerned, he's still 5 so he probably doesn't need enough cards to play yet...but still the obsession is only just beginning. Can't tell you how much money I poured into the old Decipher SWCCG

I spend so much on my hobbies... good thing I don't do any drugs or drink else I'd be broker than I already am.

I only drink a little bit, but kids are expensive man

(as is college, still paying for that...)

I plan to not have any!

My wife may plan differently.

y'all should probably get on the same page there :)

@DampeS8N Not done yet but a heads up my slime king concept is leaning more towards a gelatinous cube, though the internet seems to disagree with me and leans more towards a teardrop sort of thing.

Let me know if you have a preference, or if cubes come up elsewhere

@RedRiderX AoA energon for the win

and a crown

@Zachiel Hmm google image search is giving me transformer robots...

Is that what you mean?

encrypted.google.com/…

I have a series of questions on D&D 4e that came up during last session. I guess some could be "I did not enough research" questions so I'd like to discuss with you here in chat to see which ones are good questions

now, let's see

@Zachiel Ah a vote for the tear drop camp

I faced a droplet right yesterday. Stupid AC22

and me not having Weapon Finesse on my full-dex acrobat

Current WIP

Still very rough

But I'm falling into the cube camp :P

I'm pretty sure my last two doubts are easily solved by re-reading the rules

Ant thee first three could need some site help and are worth a question. Anybody disagrees?

Especially @waxeagle @InbarRose @ObliviousSage, since you have answers in the tag and are online (or seemingly so)

eh, what? just got back from buying books

1) The RAW on nearest enemy is a little weird, if I recall correctly. I'm wanting to say it's the nearest enemy "of which you are aware". Paired with creatures always knowing effects on them, this can result in some odd situations: warlocks curses the BBEG, the closest (only!) enemy he knows about, and BBEG, on the other side of the world, wakes up thinking, "I've been cursed!"

@Zachiel nearest does not need LOS unless it specifies (nearest you can see...), wall of water - yes. LOE only not LOS, melee attacks on corners subject to cover/LOS rules

@Zachiel last, depends on weapon, magic weapons almost always, some mundane weapons do too

2) would need to see the power, but probably yes

3) line of effect

4) yes you can melee if you're both at the corner, with reach it works the same as a ranged attack

@ObliviousSage a little different. The warlock is in a corridor, some squares behind the tank. There are enemies in the room and the nearest one is not in LoS (another one is). He can only curse the nearest one. The party as a whole has sight on the other enemy.

5) some weapons have the high crit property which lets them do bonus damage on crits, but generally crit bonus damage comes from the enchantment on the weapon

does the warlock know the enemies are there? as i said, to my recollection it's the closest enemy the warlock is aware of

@ObliviousSage if it's not hidden, you're aware of its position and presence, right?

generally, yes

without LOS you might need to make a very easy perception check to hear it

So since the map is on the open, the warlock can consider which enemies he would see if he advanced too much and stop, so he can curse a specific one - or, since he knows the position, the other enemy would be a valid target and invalidates the one in sight being "the nearest"? - I'm asking it main site.

@ObliviousSage depends on if they're trying to hide or not, if they haven't made the check to hide, you know they're there

@waxeagle I believe that's only if you have some reasonable way of knowing they're there (seeing or hearing them, usually).

You don't know the location of every creature in the multiverse that isn't currently trying to hide (hopefully).

For creatures you can't see, you make a Perception check to hear them; if they're not trying to hide from you, that's against a (low) DC rather than their Stealth roll.

how do you say in English that distance that is measured point to point, without following roads or terrain? Something's fly IIRC

"as the crow flies" is the phrase, i believe

@RedRiderX Aww, its cute! Cute is good. Murder all the cute!

warlock's curse: needs LoS, right?

or just LoE?

(line of sight/effect)

@ObliviousSage of the whole multiverse maybe not, but the current encounter?

it needs line of sight

Ugh I forgot how restrictive the NES palette is.

You can barely shade anything!

@RedRiderX use checkerboard shading

Oh derp, of course!

Thanks

Still messy on the shading, but that's the general idea

@DampeS8N What size do you think these sprites will display at?

100%, 200%, larger?

Shading redux

Eh, for the imposter slime king I'm okay with it.

The True King might get a scepter and a bigger crown

Well I think I'll try moving on to the True King now.

I'm thinking that the true king will be blue, with the zombie true king being red.

@RedRiderX Neat, I like these! Size wise, let's do them at 1 to 1 pixel for now and I'll figure out a more accurate size later.

Sure

Early scepter concept.

@RedRiderX Maybe it should just be stuck into it like a knife.

Hmm

Current state

I could definitely be more stick-iny

ooo, I like the crown

Oops I cut it off in the screen cap

Yeah it makes the first one look a bit like Jughead's Beanie :P

Hmm

This could work

If you have any feedback let me know, I'll probably get to the Zombie True Slime King later today.

@RedRiderX These are great, really fit the mood of the game. :)

I have a question for you guys. I'm getting ready to post a question to rpg.se and I don't know if I should make it one question or several questions any advice?

@SolidusVerum depends, whats the question?

I'm about to ask "must the antagonist be a villian" as the title with sub-goals of 1) how to design none-evil antagonists 2) what are the potential pitfalls of doing so 3) has anyone ever tried it before

@waxeagle should is that enough info to go on?

@SolidusVerum I don't think I would expect answers to (1) to not include (2) and (3), so I would not split them up.

quite general

#3 is not a valid question on its own, but is ok to include as a clarifier for the other 2

Aye, and assume the answer is yes, ask #1. Be specific about your setting, system if relevant and the environs of your table

brief overview of your intended plot etc

ultimately though, the best way to approach these kinds of things is start and ask when you get stuck

oh okay

I wasn't planning on making a campaign I was just curious if other people have done it.

I like to know so that I would have the option to make a character like this in the future.

I will stay my question for the time being then and wait until it's more than just blatant curiosity.

Thanks for the clarification all!

@SolidusVerum You may want to look at rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/31869/unhate-able-villains if you haven't yet. Overlaps (though not exactly the same as) your question.

@Grubermensch that's actually one of the questions that lead me to think about mine.

but thanks for checking though!

@RedRiderX For future reference. This is what the final Cosby boss should be.

@DampeS8N This is the perfect inspiration

Ok, on to Zombie True Slime King!

I'm thinking more red, with bite marks

maybe bones?

@DampeS8N If the terms are agreeable to you, I think I'll release this stuff under a CC BY-SA 4.0 License.

Necromancy magic is always green right?

I'm going to choose to believe it is.

Zombie King, minus the bite marks of course

Bite marks first concept

Could maybe use some work...

@RedRiderX Sounds perfect to me. I plan to release the source to the game as well. ooooh, I like the bite marks!

This might be a little too busy

I'm also not loving the lack of contrast between this version's primary and secondary colours.

More white in the highlights?

@DampeS8N I played your game a bunch. It was pretty cool. I have some comments if you're interested.

@AlexP Yeah, totally

I liked how I had to actively use the Potions to get through the first boss.

@RedRiderX That NES palette can be a real bastard.

@DampeS8N Indeed

I think the hp loss / Heal / mp regen cycle is pretty good.

It's one of the main rewards for boosting your hp.

I feel like it kinda hit a plateau. Around level 300 maybe? Where you still progress but it takes like 100 sp to buy anything

What game?

dampes8n.com/levelup

@AlexP I agree. I'm working on ideas for things to add that get more expensive more slowly but don't unbalance the game in the long run.

Fire seems kinda useless. It's mostly a way to 2-hit 3-hittable enemies?

So that's not bad for letting you speed up the game if you're watching it actively.

@RedRiderX Wanna dive right into the last incarnation of Slime King? '6 Million Dollar Zombie True Slime King'

Hmm maybe

@AlexP Fire can make all the difference with later bosses if you boost int.

@BESW Yeah that's a good idea but the NES contains no more contrast :(

@DampeS8N Heal definitely does.

Hmm, so I just the slime consume many fat stacks?

Gold chain maybe?

@AlexP You'll need to wisely use Weaken, Fire and Heal for some of the worst bosses.

Wait what level is this boss in again?

@RedRiderX I was thinking a red track suit

@DampeS8N Oh nice

@DampeS8N Also, please change "Zombie Ennis Cosby." I felt like it was in really poor taste.

It already being red is an issue though

@AlexP It is in really poor taste.. But is it in poorer taste than killing your own grandmother in hell or committing genocide?

@DampeS8N Wait, is that money hanging around that guy's neck?

@RedRiderX They are some kind of electronics

He's all bionic

Ooooooh that 6 million dollar man

@DampeS8N Yes. Because it's a specific person who is mostly known for being murdered. Seemingly at random.

Now I know where you're going with this

@AlexP Good point

Like, I set the game aside at that point. Because the Cosby fixation was kinda funny but it felt wrong to go from murderhoboing your way through his various TV projects to murderhoboing your way through his murdered family members.

People have their lines in different places and all that, of course. But I'm just letting you know that it felt wrong to me. As a data point.

@AlexP Part of the point of the game is to try to make people feel something about the random murderhoboing in RPGs. But, above all I want people to keep playing so if it made you feel so strange that you set the game aside, I'll consider removing it.

But, over all you had the reaction I was going for with it.

@DampeS8N I think the occasional bits where the boss is a 1hp homeowner or you are murdering slime kids did a good job with that.

The delicate balance here is that you want to say something negative about murderhoboing but it's not the kind of game where "the only winning move is not to play." ;)

@AlexP Ok. I'll remove it. And avoid similar things.

Also I really liked the Slime things.

The way the image of what the heck Slime society is changes over time.

Yeah that is pretty cool

I can't wait to do army slimes

I'm thinking WWI pith helmets

Maybe WWII

@AlexP Long as I can keep Billesus Coschrist

@DampeS8N I really don't know what I'm going to do there

Oh is that where you want hot dog cosby?

@DampeS8N Yes :)

@RedRiderX I kinda envisioned him on the cross if that helps.

It might be hard to fit that into a sprite

I was reminded of Ultra Business Tycoon III a couple of time. Which is good. Means you set the mood well.

@RedRiderX I was thinking that would be Cosby Prime

Ahaha

Nice

Okay so track suit...

Do I clean up his crown and stuff?

@RedRiderX or other 6 million dollar man tropes

hmm

@DampeS8N Other then him being super strong/fast what else?

@RedRiderX 70's flair?

Heh

right

But that's the track suit

I believe in you

Heh okay

You could also morph his color again

Ah true

But he is still a zombie right?

@RedRiderX It doesn't do high levels of brightness/value?

thealmightyguru.com/Games/Hacking/Wiki/…

Yes I suppose so

But the only thing brighter then that were super white shades

And that was too bright

Ah.

That's... 26 on 16, right?

What about using 38 instead of 26?

The stuff in the overleveled quest are gonna be epic. :)

WIP

@BESW Hmm

Hmm

It might be better, yeah

I guess that's why NES sprites were so... vibrant :P

Yeah I might go with this

Thanks

Hmm maybe kind of sort of done 6mill zombie true slime king?

@RedRiderX Brilliant!!

can you pop the 1 to 1 pixel versions up? I wanna code them in but don't want to download PS onto this computer right now. lol

Here is a package imgur.com/a/QL8Ia#3

Tell me if imgur messes those up

perfect, you rock!

Heh, and if it's alright with you I'll think I'll share them on my blog today