Root Access

@JourneymanGeek actually, I think the whole concept of offline mode would be more interesting as a "download to server" rather than "download to computer"

Journeyman Geek

Its not a minimal requirement

Bob

i.e. it would be better handled on the ttrss server

Journeyman Geek

@Bob but ttrss downloads things to itself anyway

Bob

oh, it does? o.o

@JourneymanGeek so if the site deletes a page... ttrss keeps it?

that sounds useful

Journeyman Geek

er

I don't think it keeps the images

and periodically purges

Bob

6:06 AM

aww

:\

I suppose I could use Lucene.Net for searching

never used it before :P

Journeyman Geek

oh, you could disable it

but the author will mock you if it breaks anything

this is a common theme with ttrss

Bob

...last released 2012

Journeyman Geek

see what SE uses ;p

Bob

@JourneymanGeek iirc Elasticsearch

which is vastly overkill

Journeyman Geek

ah

also somewhat finicky

Bob

6:08 AM

> Elasticsearch is a search engine based on Lucene.

WELP.

213

Q: A new search engine for Stack Exchange

After the performance problems we have run into with Lucene.NET we've decided to make a change, we're moving the network on to elasticsearch. Here's where to get started: http://stackoverflow.com/search What works: All search operators should be in Many changes below from the old search behav...

@JourneymanGeek ^

Journeyman Geek

ah

Bob

> After the performance problems we have run into with Lucene.NET we've decided to make a change, we're moving the network on to elasticsearch.

welllllllllllll

Journeyman Geek

guess not

Bob

that's literally the same option I mentioned. twice.

Journeyman Geek

lol

this does feel like feature bloat tho. ;p

way beyond minimal/shippable.

Bob

6:10 AM

@JourneymanGeek bleh. I don't really feel like doing a proper MVP

and eh

I have half a dozen other projects I should technically do first

Journeyman Geek

;p

not that interesting?

Bob

@JourneymanGeek remind me in a month? :P

Journeyman Geek

(RSS is kind of a deep geek tool these days)

Bob

@JourneymanGeek actually, I really want to set up RSS (again). But I should also finish up that thing for @allquixotic, and finish up the soundboard thing I started last week.

Journeyman Geek

lol

Bob

6:11 AM

@JourneymanGeek There's lots of sites I currently keep track of by manually visiting them. RSS would be nice.

Journeyman Geek

... actually

Bob

I used it back in... uhh. 2010? with Thunderbird but it became unmanageable pretty quickly

also I kinda need phone support, so I suppose I will be going with ttrss :\

Journeyman Geek

Its dead but

sputnik.szwacz.com

ttrss's android client isn't free, cause the dev hates coding it ;p

Bob

lol

Journeyman Geek

^ sputnik's the closest thing to a 'perfect' desktop client I've used so far

Bob

6:12 AM

sounds like my kind of dev :D

Journeyman Geek

not sure about search, but it dosen't have ttrss support

Bob

@JourneymanGeek y'know. It's written in JS + nwjs.

Journeyman Geek

@Bob god, the forum RSS feeds are 'stock' and filled with the smell of burning n00bs

Bob

That's literally my current job.

Journeyman Geek

@Bob ;p

Bob

6:13 AM

@JourneymanGeek Is there any particular problem with it being dead?

Journeyman Geek

I don't think JS belongs on the desktop/server

Bob

like, something you want to add to it?

cauuuuuuse.

Journeyman Geek

@Bob no, I'd be using it if not for...

ttrss support, maybe themes.

Bob

@JourneymanGeek well. I'm terrible at themes. But it's just CSS here.

dunno how hard ttrss support would be to hack in

it's on nwjs 12.0, which is a bit of a problem

cause 13.0 was a major breaking release

@JourneymanGeek there's also 74 forks of it, but they add nothing :P

ewwwww

NSIS installer

let's see what the code looks like

urk. angularjs. oooooooookay. I know JS. I do not know Angular.

Journeyman Geek

lol

I actually was meaning

Bob

6:17 AM

hm. wonder if I can be bothered figuring it out :P

can't be that different from Ext

Journeyman Geek

"If you wanted an RSS feed reader and didn't want to set up ttrss, this is nice"

;p

Bob

hm. it's well-written

@JourneymanGeek in fact, this is probably better than ttrss for me, since ican definitely hack JS much better than PHP

but it's not synced, so it'll be a bit of a pain between desktop/laptop

Journeyman Geek

which is why I like/use ttrss

Bob

ugh

ok

tonight

finish @allquixotic's thing.

Journeyman Geek

lol

Bob

6:19 AM

then, RSS time :P

also why is chat giving me 10s timeouts :(

Journeyman Geek

One of these days I need to work out if I should feel guilty for throwing you these odd little quests, or good that you find projects that are fun ;p

Bob

@JourneymanGeek the latter :P

I'll probably start with standard ttrss w/ web ui

and think about doing a desktop thing later

would be a good excuse to learn UWP actually

Journeyman Geek

oh

and if you set up your own, and use the dark theme

I have some CSS for stopping it from being monochrome.

let me know if you need it (or you need it for your account on mine) so you can laugh at my terrible hack-job

Bob

@JourneymanGeek I'm usually fine with light themes :P

@JourneymanGeek heh, if it's actually horrible I could clean it up some. but it's probably fine

Journeyman Geek

lol

its not horrible. maybe

Bob

6:23 AM

(horrible CSS hacks usually include overly-broad or overly-restrictive rules, or selectors depending on element positioning when there's alternatives)

Journeyman Geek

journeymangeek.com/index.php/…

Bob

i.e. use classnames (and possibly static IDs) over things like "4th down"

Journeyman Geek

(you stick this in somewhere to override the theme)

I don't even remember if I copied it or beat it into working

Bob

@JourneymanGeek ehhhh looks alright, I assume the specific selectors are to override the original

Journeyman Geek

yup

Bob

6:25 AM

cause they're a tad overly-specific but sometimes that's necessary because more-specific overrides less-specific

Journeyman Geek

pretty much

Bob

(that's why it's better to do "least specific necessary" so later overrides are easier... if you make your original too specific then !important gets brought in)

as an aside, !important is the CSS equivalent to the ol' regex quote :P

bwDraco

I am not very fond of the Intel Inside program.

Bob

"I had 99 CSS specificity problems, so I used !important. Now I have 99 !important problems."

Journeyman Geek

lol

bwDraco

6:28 AM

Among other things, Intel requires OEMs in the program to use slogans like "Intel Inside. Amazing Experiences Outside." (and similar) in their marketing.

Journeyman Geek

Yeah, you hate intel, we get it

bwDraco

I just want to see AMD get a fair shot at the market.

nvm

Journeyman Geek

@Bob actually, I suspect the reason I want a desktop client is tradition, and occationally being in places with suspect internet

but that's gotten so much better

bwDraco

My apologies.

AARGH! Why do I keep making mistakes like this?

!!/ultraheaddesk

ChatBot John Cavil

Journeyman Geek

6:32 AM

heh

@Bob the more I think about it, the more it feels like a non-problem XD

bwDraco

I guess my soft skills are just too underdeveloped.

Bob

@JourneymanGeek I think the hard part with offline is... well, the whole thing :P

@JourneymanGeek how's ttrss's search, btw?

Journeyman Geek

good enough

Bob

@JourneymanGeek ...'enough' implies it's lacking somehow? :P

Journeyman Geek

I don't use it as much as I did google reader's search

Its kinda in a filing cabinet in a toilet...

Bob

6:35 AM

@JourneymanGeek well, I could try slapping Lucene on it and see what happens :P

Journeyman Geek

lol

meh. To actually have good search, the app needs to be fundamentally different ;p

Bob

@JourneymanGeek how so?

@JourneymanGeek tbh I've never done any proper indexed search before so this'll be a good experience :P

even if it is just leaning on existing libraries

Journeyman Geek

@Bob ttrss is designed more as a way to consume feeds

and well, fox claims the backend isn't going to be very happy with too many feeds

and well, a few google reader clones have gotten backed up and explodinated.

google reader essentially had unlimited resources and was designed for search

Bob

@JourneymanGeek bleh

I should write my own uber-inefficient one in ASP.NET and chuck it on a $100 dedi :P

should be enough horsepower behind a 4-core Ivy Xeon, no?

Journeyman Geek

lol

Actually, I wonder if this is one of those things a non traditional database would handle better

and lol

that's reminding me of a thing I actually need.

I'd like something where I can give it a URL, and an element, and generate a rss feed when it changes, for those webcomics with no RSS feeds ;p

lol. I wonder...

sounds like the sorta thing I could throw up if I tried programming. SEEMS simple.

bwDraco

6:52 AM

0

A: If you're gonna talk Politics, you must respect those who disagree

This extends to abuse of moderation tools like flags. Seriously, don't flag stuff simply because you disagree with the other person's opinion. A while back, I responded to a series of chat flags raised on The Bridge, Arqade's main chat room and perhaps the most active room on Stack Exchange. I...

Not my usual writing style.

Bob

@JourneymanGeek in all seriousness? depends how the search is implemented

Journeyman Geek

@Bob and I suppose the content.

Bob

@JourneymanGeek not really.

The search engine (Lucene, etc.) will have their own ways to store indexes

Journeyman Geek

ah

Bob

@JourneymanGeek Not simple.

It's effectively polling.

Oh, I've done it to watch for stock level changes.

Journeyman Geek

6:56 AM

@Bob well, I don't need it in realtime

Bob

It's theoretically very simple.

Just... polling is ugly.

Journeyman Geek

technically RSS polls too

you're checking for a new updated feed every say 15 minutes

bwDraco

@Bob Yup.

Problem is, push needs a lot of extra work on the server side...

Bob

@bwDraco tbh it's not much work

it's just that most servers won't do it unless explicitly needed

Journeyman Geek

nothing else

its a basic XML file

Bob

6:59 AM

@JourneymanGeek yea, but it expects it

Journeyman Geek

that's essentially the beauty of RSS tho ;p

the client works out what to do with it

Bob

polling a service that doesn't expect it can lead to throttling and blocking

possibly.

depends on frequency of course

every 5 mins is cutting it close

bwDraco

Push requires the server to know what clients it needs to serve. Pull requires no registration.

Bob

15 mins is probably fine

Journeyman Geek

yup

Bob

7:00 AM

half day is fine

Journeyman Geek

I'm thinking more once or twice a day

Bob

@bwDraco kiiiiiiiiiiinda

Journeyman Geek

and I'd probably hook it into cron

bwDraco

For RSS, I'd want to say hourly.

Bob

there's also long polling

bwDraco

7:01 AM

Email clients have always polled servers...

I have Thunderbird set to hit Yahoo Mail every 15 minutes, and that's on three accounts.

Bob

@bwDraco Uhh. No.

POP3 was polling-only.

POP3 also sucked in every way except maybe simplicity.

bwDraco

Hmm...

Bob

IMAP does not poll by default.

bwDraco

I have not really used IMAP anywhere.

Journeyman Geek

heh

bwDraco

7:03 AM

Thunderbird sets up Yahoo Mail with POP3 by default for whatever reason.

Bob

@bwDraco ewwwwwwwwwwwwww

POP is absolutely shit.

Journeyman Geek

IMAP is ~~awesome~~ less sucky

bwDraco

(except on my tablet)

Bob

No folder support. No sync support (it's download-only).

IMAP IDLE

In email technology, IDLE is an IMAP feature described in RFC 2177 that allows a client to indicate to the server that it is ready to accept real-time notifications. == Significance == The IDLE feature allows IMAP email users to immediately receive any mailbox changes without having to undertake any action such as clicking on a refresh button, or having the email client automatically and repeatedly ask the server for new messages. == Usage == IMAP4 servers that support IDLE will include the programming string "IDLE" in the result of their CAPABILITY command. This allows email users to r...

bwDraco

It does make it easier to maintain permanent, long-term email archives...

Bob

7:04 AM

FYI

IDLE is supported by pretty much every IMAP client and server in existence.

ffs it's existed since 1997

bwDraco

Well, I'm not sure how I'm going to migrate to IMAP4 without breaking local archiving.

Bob

   The IDLE command is sent from the client to the server when the
   client is ready to accept unsolicited mailbox update messages.  The
   server requests a response to the IDLE command using the continuation
   ("+") response.  The IDLE command remains active until the client
   responds to the continuation, and as long as an IDLE command is
   active, the server is now free to send untagged EXISTS, EXPUNGE, and
   other messages at any time.

@bwDraco Local archiving depends on the mail client, in all cases.

POP is just... ugh.

bwDraco

I'm just not in a mood to change my email workflow. It works for me, after all :P

Bob

Eh, your choice.

I know I'd be (hand have been) endlessly pissed off by unsynced read state across devices..

Journeyman Geek

._.

github.com/achilikin/cdtea

Bob

7:13 AM

@JourneymanGeek I... wouldn't mind having that :P

allquixotic

@Bob I'm trying to port .NET kynnaugh to .NET Core using Visual Studio for Mac :D

>
using D3F00FF1770DED978EC774BA389F2DC901F4.B00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.C00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.D00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.E00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.F00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000;

I kid you not, that's in the code, and I have no fucking idea why

Journeyman Geek

@Bob a raspi to control a CD rom drive tho?

Bob

@allquixotic if you actually want to use it, I have a Core port here

and it compiles

it's just missing the resampler

@allquixotic That's part of DllExport. FYI, you can't use that outside Windows.

It relies on mixed-mode assemblies.

With .NET Core, you actually have to write the C bindings.

allquixotic

@Bob why doesn't what you have, work?

@Bob ...huh; well I have it building to a bunch of .net DLLs o_O

Bob

@allquixotic relies on Win32 DSO API

allquixotic

7:24 AM

libgrpc_csharp_ext.x64.dylib

well that's taken care of

Bob

I mentioned I was going to switch to libresample, but only if you needed it cause it's nontrivial

allquixotic

@Bob is that CSCore?

Bob

@allquixotic but you won't be able to load as plugin without the native binding

@allquixotic yea, CSCore uses it

there's no pure .net replacement

@allquixotic heh, grpc is properly multi :P

I'll look when I get home

in an hour

allquixotic

@Bob are you sure? it seems to be using ffmpeg under the hood on other platforms.

it seems to claim that certain codecs are only available on Windows, but FLAC and WAV are cross-platform?

Bob

@allquixotic ...possibly, but I looked at the resampler source

also cscore flac is decode only

using flacbox to encode

allquixotic

7:29 AM

hence flacbox. ah

well if I can get it into a dylib, I'm pretty sure it has a chance of working, since I have MSIL .dlls of the entire solution right now

and natives of the bits that need to be native

Bob

@allquixotic get what?

oh, just use libresample :P

I was thinking about porting libresample to C#

it's only like 1k lines of math code

allquixotic

@Bob I need to basically find something that's .NET Native but for OS X / .NET Core :P

Bob

@allquixotic oh, that

@allquixotic I mentioned before how I'd do it for Core

allquixotic

that would be awesome

Bob

@allquixotic basically, even DllExport doesn't work for Core. You need to make a C lib project and use the .NET Core API

so you manually export the C functions and just load .NET to call the transcription bit

of course that's where I thought about going back to pure C++ -_-

@allquixotic FYI github.com/dotnet/coreclr/issues/1234

allquixotic

7:35 AM

@Bob github.com/dotnet/corert

Bob

@allquixotic Huh. I forgot about that one. Does it export functions?

github.com/dotnet/corert/issues/768

NativeCallable

Awesome! :D :D :D

> Apply [NativeCallable] attribute to a managed method and then it can be called from native code.

:D

github.com/dotnet/coreclr/pull/1566/files#r39678961

hmmm

allquixotic

delicious

so basically there's no reason to use C++ anymore :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

.NET will inherit the earth

Bob

@allquixotic I'll just ... uh ... stop procrastinating and do the needful (TM) and actually do the cleanup :P

allquixotic

@Bob I've already done a fair bit!

should I commit it?

Bob

@allquixotic oh, nice

is it pushed?

allquixotic

7:42 AM

no

I'm afraid to because I think I broke some things

Bob

ah

@allquixotic might as well push :P

though if we're going to Core there's not much point doing more on the Windows-specific one

allquixotic

I think what we have isn't even Windows-specific, we should be good

Bob

@allquixotic Except CSCore and DllExport

the rest is platform-agnostic managed code, yea

allquixotic

I don't think CSCore is going to be a problem, but I'll test it.

Bob

@allquixotic I'll be amazed (and very very happy) if it works

spent a whole day looking for alternatives

@allquixotic Oh, it was DMO. github.com/filoe/cscore/blob/…

allquixotic

7:45 AM

uhh, I think NativeCallable is the other way :S

github.com/dotnet/coreclr/blob/master/tests/src/Interop/…

Bob

@allquixotic nah. that's just the primary use case, to provide a callback

see comments on that issue

> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but NativeCallable will allow me to export my class library so they can be called from my native application as if it was a native dll (think LoadLibrary then GetProcAddress), providing I run it through your AOT compiler and I link MTR.dll? What's the catch? Is this only going to be for WinRT?

> Yes, NativeCallable will allow you to do this. The catch is that it will take a while until the CoreRT compiler and frameworks are complete and production quality (we do not have date yet).

allquixotic

pushed my awful changes

we'll revive the unit tests later, I was just lazy

@Bob what issue?

Bob

@allquixotic I was going to merge the projects anyway

allquixotic

@Bob right, that's one of the things you mentioned so I did that

Bob

13 mins ago, by Bob

https://github.com/dotnet/corert/issues/768

train just got to station, so I'll be walking. back in 20-30 mins

Transcript for