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3:00 PM
Everyone with their SSDs :P
@BenBrocka Failing with obscure errors, too.
@JourneymanGeek ew ew ew ew. I would throw away anything under 1 TB that isn't an SSD
It was more reliable back with XP/2003, I'm quite sure.
Well, except in laptops.
@Bob oh, yeah I've had that happen too
All I have are half a dozen HDDs. (4x 2TB, 1x 1.5TB, 1x 720GB (laptop))
3:01 PM
a 250 GiB HDD in a disc is large enough.
But I don't really trust other free backup solutions. And I don't like the pay ones either
@BenBrocka: oh, and a 500gb internal too
@BenBrocka I find Acronis is quite good
@Hennes laptops are fine with less storage but I'd still get an SSD
@allquixotic ahhh, that's going to take me a while to reply to xD lol
3:02 PM
If I had spare cash I would add a 80 or 60GiB SSD to my laptops primary drive bay
Even with the motion sensors I don't trust mechanical parts in a frequently moving device. Also I drop things a lot
@BenBrocka: I'd like to relegate most of those to JBODish things, but I've currently got limited finances, and a half dozen things that need my attention ;p
I built a beefy-ish gaming/recording PC for recording youtube videos, and I get more money on videos so I keep upgrading semi-regularly. But big and fast drives were a priority, I can't have IO be a bottleneck
@Bob Having used a mSATA SSD in my Surface Pro, and an enterprise-grade SATA 3.5" SSD in my dedicated server, comparing it with the performance of (1) a high-end microSD card, (2) a USB 3.0 flash drive, (3) a regular hard drive, I'd say the mSATA drive is marginally faster than a regular HDD, and the enterprise SSD is astonishingly, almost unbelievably faster than a regular HDD.
@Hennes considering replacing my DVD drive with a SSD... alternatively, I could get a portable HDD
3:03 PM
In short, if you don't want to pay $1000 for a 256GB enterprise SSD, the performance isn't going to blow your socks off.
or, I could even stick a SSD into a USB3 caddy o.O
@allquixotic: I got my samsung 840 free
@allquixotic Marginally? :S
its pretty impressively snappy
a SSD in an eSATA caddy works wonders.
3:04 PM
@allquixotic still gotta be better than this. this piece of crap in my laptop peaks at maybe 40 MB/s
@Hennes don't have eSATA on the laptop
But I eventually moved my only SSD to the desktop, as JBOD.
@Bob Yes. Marginally. The slim form factor (I think even smaller than 2.5") mSATA SSD in my Surface Pro is only a little bit faster than a full fat laptop's 2.5" 7200rpm SATA HDD.
Basically, small SSDs aren't all that impressive right now.
hm, what's the proper way to deal with someone who posts 3 identical answers?
Large enterprise ones though, holy fsck, hold on to your socks
512MB RAM on a RAID card in combination with a SSD works quite well.
3:05 PM
I think the Surface Pro's SSD is SLC. That's probably the difference.
More expensive enterprise SSDs are MLC.
@JourneymanGeek letter for letter identical? Mods actually get an automatic flag when people do that
would have spamflagged it if it wasn't a 1k+ user
@allquixotic what I've read before stated exactly the opposite
that SLC was faster and more reliable
downvoted all 3 ;p
3:08 PM
and MLC was more consumer-oriented
he's no longer a 1K user
@allquixotic: SLC is faster
oh, oops, I got them backwards
there's a few other factors, enterprice SSDs have more spare space
and then there's TLC (not that TLC)
3:08 PM
and the controlelrs
I am gonna learn PLC
my samsung has TLC, and isn't much slower than the MLC 840 pros
Any of you guys know if a Radeon HD 6970 would be mismatched with a Core i5-3550?
@BenRichards can't see why not
although if you're buying a new 6970 I'd go for a 7000 series instead
@BenRichards: mismatched how?
3:10 PM
7790 is apparently the new hot diggity dog and it's not all that expensive. or the 7970, I can personally vouch for that one
You're unlikely to see a bottleneck with the interfaces (no one's really ever reported that happening)
and I do believe anandtech still uses a SB system for benchmarking ;p
yeah the interfaces won't be a problem as long as your mobo has PCI-E 3.0 (Ivy Bridge mobos do, but Sandy Bridge mainstream mobos don't)
@JourneymanGeek SB-E probably, for the high end CPU clocking and stuff
@allquixotic: I kinda doubt the video card would totally saturate a PCI-E 2.0 lane either
SB-E > Ivy-mainstream in raw throughput, so no wonder he uses that
@allquixotic: actually no, I think its a standard SB
3:12 PM
really? it's not LGA 2011?
I wonder if Intel is going to someday say "you know what, screw it, these -E series are too expensive for us to produce, and we end up spending more money on them than we get back because only a few elite consumers will put up the money to buy them"
@allquixotic Nope, upgraded my 2 6970s to a 7970. Was gonna give them to my brothers.
besides, it takes an insanely long time for them to churn 'em out. it's not like Haswell-E is on its way in 2013
@JourneymanGeek Was wondering if it would be bottlenecked, since apparently that can happen. I am not familiar with that though.
I guess it'll be fine. Ok!
my bad, SB-E
@BenRichards 2 6970s? hmm.... well aside from games not scaling to multiple GPUs, I don't foresee any problems
3:15 PM
@allquixotic: I think the E series are a little like those crazyass limited run cars ;p
@allquixotic: I think @BenRichards ran that setup for a while
@BenRichards: oh, for the freebie motherboard? ;p
@allquixotic No, each of my brothers will get one. :P
ahh ;p
@JourneymanGeek Yeah. :P
I'm replacing those two with a single card. Crossfire is great but comes with its own caveats.
Though I'm wondering if this upgrade will be a downgrade, performance wise. I mainly wanted the four mini-DP outputs :)
We'll see :P
3:17 PM
I've never ever considered anything past a single midrange card ;p
3x1080p Eyefinity really pushed those cards hard. Though I still got playable framerates at maxed or near maxed settings :P
my monitor is not that high res ;p
so the 660 I have kinda dosen't really get to stretch its legs
I just got a 1920x1200 Dell IPS monitor for work. 24". Is nice.
See, those two cards on a single monitor absolutely trounced anything I threw at it. :P
well Skeptics didn't like it either:
Q: Do I really need an Anti-Virus software if I'm careful about where I browse?

KronoSA friend told to me the following: I don't use Anti-Virus software at all, I am just careful about where I go and what I click on. I've also heard this from other people as I've repaired their PC's and cleaned up the malware/viruses they've received from browsing to the "wrong" sites. Fina...

3:19 PM
mine is not even HD
BUT... I did finally find this. I think I'm going to blog about this subject
seems worthwhile
rather amusing since I did blow quite a bit on my mouse and keyboard
@JourneymanGeek Arguably two of the most important components, since you're using them all the time.
(and my monitor is like, the cheapest one that wasn't total crap ;p)
I'm on my Das Professional S (Cherry MX Browns) and Kensington ExpertMouse (trackball). Ergonomic heaven. :)
3:21 PM
@BenRichards: yeah. upgraded the shared PC to a mechanical too
its gonna need some repairs soon, got a dying drive :/
well, nothing on it I REALLY need
about half of it is backups
(the systems that are backed up still run, so its a simple matter of re-backing them up)
@BenRichards I have that same keyboard
3:25 PM
@JourneymanGeek yeah but considering how long it takes them to fab them out (and they have to fab a whole chipset for them AND a unique processor with the GPU removed and replaced with CPU stuff) it can't be profitable
Only annoying thing is it's even louder so my mic always picks it up
there aren't millions of people buying Sandy-E today, are there? with Haswell right around the corner??
@allquixotic: I was under the impression they were a varient of their server parts
on the other hand, I almost feel like the -E series are like a beta / technology test for the next generation stuff, because many -E motherboards get features that are years ahead of the mainstream curve
Ivy-E is going to get DDR4, I believe
@allquixotic: like skull trail? ;p
3:27 PM
@JourneymanGeek what's that?
@allquixotic Specs are finalized ?
@HackToHell doubtful
@allquixotic: dual socket enthusiast systems
Intel's Skulltrail is an enthusiast gaming platform that was released on February 19, 2008. It is based on the company's 5400 "Seaburg" workstation chipset. The primary difference between Skulltrail and Intel's current and past enthusiast chipsets is a dual CPU socket design that allows two processors to operate on the same motherboard. Therefore, Skulltrail can operate eight processing cores on one system. The platform supports two Core 2 Extreme QX9775 processors (commonly mistaken for the Core 2 Extreme QX9770, which is the LGA775 counterpart), which operate at 3.2 GHz. Skulltrai...
Ivy's been out for well over a year and there's no sign of a release date for Ivy-e
which, if Ivy-E were based on Ivy-EP (the server chipset), it'd already be out
since we have Ivy based Xeons already
@allquixotic IIRC there was a delay for SB-e too
3:29 PM
@BenBrocka It's a nice keyboard. Still tempted to mod it though to make it quieter
They need to add sound dampening when you bottom out.
@BenRichards Is there a way to do that while keeping the browns?
yeah, you add o rings
Yeah, just add cushioning under the keys.
@JourneymanGeek there was, but Ivy-E seems much more protracted of a delay
@BenRichards: don't bottom out ;p
3:30 PM
Doesn't change the feel at all?
that's why blues are great starter mechanicals
@JourneymanGeek Trying to train myself to do that more. It's not easy to break ~20 years of habit. :P
I don't like the blues, the click is too high pitched
I pound my keys often.
@BenBrocka: the clicks tell you when to stop pressing
3:31 PM
Blues were shockingly loud. Though I did love buckling spring.
lets you adjust your style
my blues arn't bad
@JourneymanGeek yeah, but you can feel it with the browns
@BenBrocka You don't have to bottom out. The press is registered mid-key travel.
I want a model M
@JourneymanGeek My blues aren't bad either. Just prefer something a bit quieter.
3:32 PM
someone linked that earlier
@BenBrocka Saw that. The display hinges forward to hide the touchpad.
Though usability-wise, I think it's a good design. Just looks weird to us :P
It's a good design if you never ever use the touchpad
@BenBrocka I mean it's more comfortable to reach forward for the touchpad than to go back.
I always thought that, anyway.
Though I do like the nub too, these days.
Maybe. I haven't used a touchpad regularly in years
3:34 PM
@JourneymanGeek @HackToHell Nevermind, looks like the Xeons based on Ivy Bridge are actually based on Ivy Bridge Mainstream and not Ivy-EP... so the whole Ivy-{E,EP,EX} line hasn't even launched
Laptop has one of those nub things so I just use my thumb
They're definitely arriving later than Haswell-mainstream, since that's due next week supposedly, but how much later? we don't know
the Intel process is more like "tick-a tock-a" now with the extra performance lines lagging behind :P
"Tick-a tock-a, Ben-a Brock-a" ;)
What's the scoop on new Intel processors now? I've been thinking of upgrading eventually if only so Flash games stop stuttering (maybe)
@BenBrocka if you're talking about a desktop, wait about a month and a half and then buy a Haswell system... something like a Core i7-4770
it should be a performance king for a time, even over and above Sandy-E
why not a K? ;p
unless you want VT-D eventually
3:37 PM
@JourneymanGeek VT-D >:(
So Haswell is the new line or what? I haven't followed intel super closely
unless i7-4770K has VT-D? :D
@BenBrocka: code name for the next gen
so its the 4th generation core i processors
@BenBrocka Tick Tock. "Tick" is a fabrication line migration (to make smaller semiconductors); "Tock" is a new microarchitecture on the same fab line as the previous generation (to make smarter hardware designs)
3:39 PM
so totally new microachitecture on the same process size as IB
The codenames for the last few (not obsolete as of yet) Core processors are, in order: Nehalem, Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge, and within the next month, Haswell
Actually, I think I missed Westmere between Nehalem and Sandy Bridge
So this is the relevant jump or the little jump?
Nehalem was a tock, Westmere was a tick, Sandy Bridge was a tock, Ivy Bridge was a tick, and Haswell will be a tock
@BenBrocka: supposedly pretty major
much lower power use
2-3x igpu performance on some models compared to the previous gen
3:41 PM
I've heard AMD's GPUs follow a similar pattern. Watching out for their new line too, since I'll be 2 gens behind at that point
@BenBrocka both are really huge -- what you tend to see in "tick" generations (new fab, old microarchitecture) is reduced power consumption, lower heat generation, and incremental feature/performance wins; in "tock" generations, you see major new features and platform upgrades, but the power consumption either stays pat, or increases
omg. Pretty please do not bring adobe any ideas
Q: Create a pdf from powerpoint with animations?

PeggyI have these slides that has visual effects on them, so each line appears after clicking on the screen in the presentation. When I convert them to pdf the slides are mostly empty and only some titles are in them and the lines that had the visual effect don't appear on them. I am looking for a wa...

@allquixotic There's a Westmere? o.O
@Hennes You can already embed JS...
@Bob: makes sense that there is ;p
SB is, after all, 3rd generation of the core family
There is a reason no longer use adobe reader for PDF's
3:41 PM
Power consumption doesn't matter for me much. Desktop, got enough PSU and cooling. Don't care about my power bills
(blah, this is confusing since there's a older pentium M based core family)
How about the noise from the cooling
@BenBrocka personally I'm running on a cadence of upgrading on every "tick", because skipping the tocks gives the microarchitecture a chance to stabilize; and a "tick" is still going to be significantly faster than a "tock" because they can fit more semiconductors on the die with a smaller die size
@JourneymanGeek I always thought it was second. The model numbers did not help.
@Hennes: IB's cooling is pretty quiet, stock
3:42 PM
@BenBrocka, Also, realize that software takes a while to catch up to take advantage of all the new features of a "tock"
by the time the tick comes around for the previous tock's microarchitecture, compilers probably have caught up
@allquixotic: I upgrade every 5 years or so ;p
my last build was in 07
I used to upgrade yearly. P100, AMD200, AMD2 300, dual celeron 366, dual celron 466, ...
I upgraded from Nehalem to Ivy Bridge because I had a period in there where I simply couldn't afford to upgrade. and earlier in life I had less control over my upgrade cadence due to parents dictating the family budget.
Shog9 on May 31, 2013

Community management at Stack Exchange is an… Interesting job. Parts sociologist, cat-wrangler, therapist, software analyst and cheerleader, this small band of dedicated people work daily to make sure each individual community has the tools and support you need to be as awesome as you are. Of course, we don’t do it alone: from the very start, Stack Exchange attracted some amazingly helpful and insightful folk who’ve donated their time and effort to help out – and I’m pleased to announce that we’re adding one of them, Tim Post, to our full-time staff of Community Managers. …

But right now I got an old rig (Nehalem, i7 920) is it simply is fast enough
3:44 PM
@Blogbot that was so old
I skipped Westmere and Sandy Bridge, which has landed me squarely in the "upgrade on ticks" cadence now
I'm a little suprised the old girl is holding up as well as she is, other than needing to swap the PSU, one fan, and a video card)
@Hennes: precisely!
oh, did you guys see this? blog.serverfault.com/2013/05/29/…
@allquixotic I'd be waiting a year or two before the next tick though, I assume. I mean my current build isn't really a problem either, I'm just figuring I'll keep upgrading as I get money from youtube (basically to put that back into my recording hardware)
@BenBrocka yeah -- the tick after Haswell (tock) hits next month is going to be WAY off in the distance
3:44 PM
I only got a new desktop since everyone kept kicking me off my old one ;p
@Tanner: yeah ;p
@JourneymanGeek too cool lol
I doubt anyone who isn't a sysadmin knows who tom limonecelli is
I think the ticks are going to be slowing down more than the tocks, because it's getting harder for the physicists to make semiconductors out of less and less material
@allquixotic: tho, there's some new cool processes - I think intel used 3d transistors on IB
but with a tock you just have to review your CPU design and make some enhancements at the layout and microarchitecture layers
which is fairly predictable
3:46 PM
then one of the other semiconductor companies has finfets
@JourneymanGeek they did, which helps reduce power consumption
@Tanner they use disqus?
@jokerdino I quite like disqus
except when it's not loading
@BenBrocka if your current build isn't killing you, and you can afford to wait until Q4 2014 or so to upgrade, I'd say wait for the tick following on from Haswell, and you'll have a super efficient, modern, CPU, with any kinks and lessons learned from Haswell already ironed out for you
3:47 PM
@jokerdino hah
and the software you run by then should be well-adapted to taking advantage of any of the new architecture features of Haswell
Haswell's tick will be called Broadwell
when you start hearing us talk about Broadwell in here, your ears should perk up ;-)
@allquixotic another factor might be the GPU. I may need to upgrade the mobo (mine isn't PCI e 3? or whatever the latest is) to get a new GPU, and to get an intel chip I'll have to get a new mobo anyway. But that would suddenly make it a very expensive upgrade
@BenBrocka: you should be able to run a midrange GPU on what you have now
actually, we were talking to @BenRichards about that ;p
@BenBrocka it would make it an expensive upgrade. however, you can upgrade to a current-generation PCI Express 3.0 GPU and continue to use a PCI Express 2.1 motherboard, and it should be fine (I don't see many situations aside from microbenchmarks that would saturate the PCI-E bus)
@JourneymanGeek Well I have a 6950. But I'm thinking of picking up something when the 8000series hits
3:49 PM
so the grandfather's axe approach would work here
@JourneymanGeek yeah too many Bens
@jokerdino: yeah.
@allquixotic Well I have an AMD board so the board has to go either way
I don't think even a video encoding OpenCL kernel that uses 100% of the GPU's shader cores would be able to saturate the PCI-E bus. the limiting factor would be the GDDR5 on the GPU.
I acually get bob confused more, cause I b tab him, and ben tab benrichards.
3:51 PM
It was an intentionally high-mid build so I got a pretty cheap mobo/CPU (i.e. amd). Was around $200 total for them I think. It works fine, I just always have an itch to upgrade
@BenBrocka no, not really -- you can keep your AMD mobo (as long as it has PCI-E >= 2.0, although preferably 2.1), keep your CPU, keep your RAM, then sometime this year just buy yourself a new GPU, either Nvidia 7xx series or Radeon HD7900 series, then in late 2014 you can jump platform from AMD -> Intel Broadwell
@allquixotic: the reviews for the 770 look good ;p
worst case you have to buy a PSU to support the power draw of the new GPU, but I can't see a need to upgrade your mobo/CPU just to support a new GPU, if you have PCI-E 2.0
@allquixotic Oh, I see what you mean. 3.0's not a huge jump then?
@JourneymanGeek i don't bother tabbing for bob
3:51 PM
(but I'm an nvidia fanboy)
@jokerdino: I'm lazy ;p
My PSU;s like 600W, should be fine
@BenBrocka: double the bandwidth
And I have 0 plans to get dual GPUs
but the video cards don't need that much in most cases
@BenBrocka PCI-E 3.0 simply expanded the maximum bandwidth ceiling for a PCI Express lane; however, GPUs currently can't generate or receive data at a rate that would saturate the bus.
3:52 PM
@JourneymanGeek it's tough being a dog. I see
Yeah, whether it uses the bandwidth was my question
Sorta like SATA 3 for consumer HDDs
@jokerdino: amusingly, it was when we were talking about being an audiophile ;p
@BenBrocka exactly

I suspect a GTX TITAN would be able to saturate a PCI-E 2.0 bus under extreme benchmarking conditions, overclocked, water cooled, etc
other than that, a current gen GPU just won't saturate PCI E bus
3:53 PM
Well, I'll be eyeing whatever dual core GPU AMD puts out. But I'll probably be put off by the price
@GFSE it's a dupe!
And honestly I'm not very GPU-limited as-is
@BenBrocka the HD7990 GPU is already released, it's two Tahiti XT cores
it has around 4000-and-some-change shader cores, and 6 GB of GDDR5
@allquixotic I meant 8000. But I'm thinking they probably won't have anything under $700 that has two GPUs on one board
@BenBrocka AMD has officially said that they are not making a generational release in 2013. The "HD8000" branding is a sham; OEMs are selling HD8000 based parts that are simply rebranded HD7000 series
they might make incremental card releases that are carefully binned or overclocked or extra VRAM, but everything out of AMD in 2013 (and probably Q1 2014) will be based on the HD7000 series GPU architecture
3:56 PM
@allquixotic Oh, really? Lame. I heard about the 8000 branding fakes but I thought they were also slated to make "real" 8000s soon
Nvidia has already shown their hand; the HD7000 series was originally stacked up against the Nvidia GTX 680 (Kepler), and Nvidia has already iterated on top of Kepler and pushed out a new line in the GTX 7xx series.
but the GTX 780 will be the king of GPU computing until at least Q2 2014 (actually the GTX TITAN, but that's more of a workstation/enthusiast part, so the 780 is the consumer part leader)
AMD looks like they're pulling the slingshot waaaaaaaaaaaay back to make it as taught as possible before they throw their next volley
I suspect the next architecture iteration from AMD to be an absolute beast and to destroy the GTX 780
but it's a long time coming, as of now
Huh. Hoping they use the cash injection from all 3 major consoles using AMD chips to step their game up
yeah, I think they'll continue to compete, but they're giving Nvidia almost a full year of having the best parts technically speaking
they'll probably just compete on price by dropping HD7000 retail prices, and compete on sheer marketing fluff with OEM HD8000s >_<

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