Well, to answer those questions a Brazilian HR person would be more qualified.

also, as far as the frequency of paydays, that can vary a lot and depends on the employer

as far as hourly minimums, it's very much a minimum for time worked

@Bob The calendar. No, really. Doesn't matter if 28, 30 or 31 days, payment is the same.

if you work an extra hour, you can expect to be paid at a minimum the minimum wage for an extra hour (plus any legally mandated overtimes)

@Bob I'm not really sure. There are laws for that. But I don't know them.

There are formulae for that

@ThatBrazilianGuy yea, that's a weird concept to me

and doesn't seem like it would work well with casual workers :\

@Bob People working multiple jobs get the montlhy pay for all their jobs.

the problem when you extend minimum wages over periods of time someone isn't working (e.g. sleeping) is you can't really control how much work (time) = how much pay

@ThatBrazilianGuy what, across all jobs or for each job?

@Bob Haha no, for each of course!

what if someone has a side job, say, delivering newspapers?

that might be five hours a week

then you run into problems :\

I suppose a monthly minimum could be a better guarantee of how much someone makes over larger periods of time

@Bob The huge majority of jobs suppose you will work 9AM-6PM (or 8am - 5pm). If you work 4hrs / day instead of 8hrs/day, you get paid half at the end of the month.

but it really just sounds too coarse

I don't know of more time micromanagement than that

@ThatBrazilianGuy yes, but how does that work with the minimum?

Most jobs here are follow an orthodox methodology

Working remotely is rare

People are expected to work 9am - 6pm

And receive a fixed amount at the end of the month

of course companies are free to pay however much they want (I assume, and as set out in the contract) above the minimum

@ThatBrazilianGuy you have a nine hour workday?!

@allquixotic Were you bitten!? Strip! Prove you weren't bitten.

the issue I have is with the legal minimum itself

how many days a week?

@allquixotic 8, 1 hr lunch (normally)

@Bob oh ok, that's normal. but we only take half an hour lunch

well, judging by his earlier statement anyway

@allquixotic Eight hours of work plus one of lunch. So you leave nine hours after you arrive.

@ThatBrazilianGuy lunch is completely optional here; some people work 8 hours and leave

you can take anywhere from 0 minutes to 120 for lunch

my current employer is fairly lenient - as long as my hours add up at the end of the month, they don't care too much if I'm a little short one day, or decide to leave early, etc..

@allquixotic Depends on the job. Some are mon - fri, others mon - sat. Usually at saturday people leave at noon or 2pm.

@Bob Yes. Well, maybe there are laws stating that you can't earn an overly ridiculous amount of money, in a rockstar level, but I'm just guessing. If a company wants to pay me five times what others would pay me, they are really stupid free to do so.

@ThatBrazilianGuy again, I just have problems wrapping my head around counting worktime and paying by the month

TIL that the cell tower in the property immediately adjacent to my work location is a Verizon tower... the building next to it is a Verizon building... unfortunately, since our building is built into a hill (or some shit), I get basically zero reception from that tower; probably a tower ~15 mi away is struggling to give me a very poor signal

even by the year would be better, at least you have a good idea of how many days

just ignoring +/- 2 days is weird

I got out of my car and held my phone up as high as I could in the air and faced the cell tower and got ... 0.78 Mbps

@allquixotic o.O

it's probably not even broadcasting that low to the ground

@Bob Well, maybe the north american "time is money" culture isn't so followed to-the-letter everywhere.

Why have a per-minute salary? You extended your cigar break 2min more than needed? Smaller payment!

@allquixotic I do vaguely recall hearing somewhere that being too close to a tower is worse for reception

@Bob that would be my case :/ and because the land topography is such that the tower is built on a hill and then there's a steep decline to the level that my work site is built on, I'm probably not even connected to that tower

I bet if I drove like a quarter mile away from that tower I'd get amazing reception

@allquixotic: the solution is to stick your phone on a giant pole

@allquixotic I'm not even going to bother searching for "cell tower minimum distance" - probably end up on a tinfoil site

@JourneymanGeek I'm sure the building owner would have no problem with that

@allquixotic get them to install a picocell? :P

@allquixotic: the alternative would be to jack up your whole building.

@Bob getting them to do anything is less likely to happen than them acquiescing to me putting up a giant pole that I purchased myself

@JourneymanGeek equally plausible

@ThatBrazilianGuy that's just exaggerating

@allquixotic: Thats like the supervillan thing to do ;p

@JourneymanGeek No, no! Even better! Add some steel wool!

@JourneymanGeek no, that's the Looney Tunes thing to do

o0

thats a new one

the problem with per-day is it's not actually a day of worked time, it's X hours work + Y hours rest

in the old country they'd use cutlery

@JourneymanGeek You mean the photo?

@ThatBrazilianGuy salaried employees don't get paid by the minute; they get paid by the year -- if you are employed at a company for a year, a person who worked 1 hour in that year who has the same salary as a person who worked 5000 hours in that year, will make the same money

as far as how much a given employer pays, sure, they could choose whatever granularity they want

but the policies are set up so that employees who don't work their 40 hours per week (minus vacation) get in trouble and are less likely to be retained

but a legal minimum? should probably be as precise as possible

the whole point of legal minimums is to prevent exploitation anyway

yup

@allquixotic: actually salaried employees get paid by the week

though here its often in 13 month years.

@JourneymanGeek depends on the specific employer and contract

@Bob: its never by the year

most of Corporate America doesn't care when you work your hours; they might put 3 or 4 hour windows on the latest possible arrival time and the earliest possible leaving time, to ensure some overlap between you and your coworkers, but they don't mind if you, like, take 90 minutes off in the middle of the day to go do some errand, then come back

@JourneymanGeek well they give you your paycheck every 2 weeks in the US, but technically you get the same money regardless of whether you worked the hours you were supposed to, or less, or more

@allquixotic Well. Every worker here (not a freelancer, etc), I mean, every worker that is a company worker, is a salaried worker. That's impossible not to be. And is paid by the month. So if you work a single hour a month, but is available to the company the whole month (not absent or missing etc), you get paid an entire month!

that's why I say we get paid "by the year" -- and it's binary; either you get your salary, or you get zero

@ThatBrazilianGuy again, I'm not saying it's a problem when a company decides to pay per-month or whatever

@allquixotic: precisely

I'm saying it's a potential problem when the legal minimum is specified in such broad terms

@ThatBrazilianGuy here, even if you're absent/missing/etc, and not taking vacation days, you still get your salary -- but then it's up to the company to decide if they want to keep employing a person who does that kind of thing.

(and in many cases, after 3 or 4 absentee days, they will fire you)

a company can pay whatever they want (above the min and according to contract)

that's not the issue

the issue is some company potentially demanding 16-hour workdays 7 days a week (to use an exaggerated example) from people with no other option

@Bob we have that issue too -- since overtime isn't ever paid (or almost never; sometimes overtime is compensated for with some kind of a one-off bonus check if it's extraordinarily valuable work), employers can set sort of "expectations" that employees work a certain amount, and make it almost impossible for you to get the amount of work assigned done in 8 hours, so you either work overtime or fall behind and get fired

that is why legal minimums exist

just ask anyone who works in software, or even IT in general... most work overtime... almost all work lots of overtime

and they don't get paid per extra hour/minute/whatever, that's just expected

@allquixotic ya, though unpaid overtime is a slightly different issue

depends on your state/country/whatever, but in an ideal world that would be grounds for an unlawful termination claim

though, again, that only applies if your contract specified a number of hours for work

then it just becomes luck of the draw, and it's hard to guarantee protection

What some employers do is set a "bank of hours" so if you work more, the extra hours go to this record and you are supposed to be able to use then when they reach a certain amount (in reality they always have excuses)

these days in the US, the people who have sort of "protected" status and the best employee benefits and protections are: government employees, and blue collar workers (physical workers, unionized, unskilled labor, or slightly skilled... mechanics, mailmen, etc)

people who work with a keyboard all day get basically screwed

@allquixotic @ThatBrazilianGuy With per-hour minimums, the yearly salary should still at least add up to be more than hoursWorked * minimum

normally, if you are a salaried worker it's far more than that already so it's not really an issue

@Bob not here -- a UPS deliveryman makes more than I do in a year without being a salaried employee; they're called "non-exempt" because they're not exempt from the labor laws

@Bob What you mean a "salaried worker"? How is it possible to be a not salaried worker? You mean a slave?

but because I work with a keyboard, I'm exempt from the labor laws, which means corporations can sign me into indentured servitude and the law is perfectly okay with that

and it has nothing to do with how much (or little) money I make

@ThatBrazilianGuy you can actually be paid by the hour, depending on the job

normally for casual workers

casual or blue-collar

@allq @Bob I iz back to pester you folks on wifi!

!!tell 12695654 maybe

There is no such thing as "exempt from labour laws" here. Some worker categories have agreements between employers and unions that can have higher priority than laws (and sometimes these agreements can screw the workers). But every worker is never exempt from labour laws. And every worker is a salaried worker (again, excluding freelancers, etc). Every worker in an employer-employee relationship is a salaried worker, non-exempt from labour laws.

the room to where I shifted the computer to, has high latencies & often fails name resolution. The same with my Cr48. The wifi signal strength is full

> It is unlawful to "secretly pay" a wage less than the minimum wage (as established by statue) while purporting to pay the minimum wage (California Labor Code § 223).

that's an example

(as per windows/inSSIDer/Chrome OS anyway)

If I take the cr48 closer to the wifi router everything's fine

> In the State of California the "hours worked" by an employee is significant in the determination of whether the employer has complied with both its minimum wage and its overtime compensation obligations. The wage orders broadly define"hours worked" as the time during which an employee is subject to the control of the employer,a nd includes all the time the employee is "suffered or permitted to work, whether or not required to do so"

> Work not requested by suffered or permitted must b counted as work time, including work performed at home that the employer knows or has reason to believe is being performed. [29 C.F.R. § 785.112].

> An employee's failure to report overtime work will not defeat a claim for overtime if the employer knew that the employer knew that the employee worked the unreported overtime.

so.. what's the problem?

@Sathya WiFi ;)

packet loss?

@Bob :-<

You can test for packet loss just by repeatedly pinging the router

ping /t routerip

but with wifi some loss is normal

hm

@ThatBrazilianGuy that sounds great in theory, until you realize that you guys get paid in what we would consider pennies on the dollar, leaving you with a very sad amount of buying power

my salary is bad and I probably make 5 or 6 times more than most people in tech in your country

@Bob that shows 1ms

@Sathya how do you figure you have high latencies?

could be just that the DNS implementation sucks

did you try 8.8.8.8 or 208.67.222.222 ?

@Bob for one, name resolution takes ahes

@Sathya if pinging the router isn't high latency, then it's not a wifi problem

@allquixotic yes, those are the primary &secondary DNS configured on the DSL

@allquixotic hi welcome back! i installed that lubuntu. the problem was that, i was installing lubuntu without internet and there was a bug written on website that it will show errors. so, i connected to internet and everyhting worked as it should ! thanks for the advice

@allquixotic Well, yes, but it if wasn't for those laws, the payment here would be even smaller, and not higher. You are paid more because of a number of political, social and economic factors that must be all taken in consideration, it's a completely different scenario!

@allquixotic but that should mean that name resolution should fail everywhere, right? /@bob

@allquixotic Heh, so very relevant: superuser.com/questions/689615/two-routers-for-two-subnets

@Sathya what you really need is to wireshark it and see what's up

resends? packet loss? etc

@allquixotic ok, let me see

@allquixotic pinging would show packet loss, though

and I don't think ICMP gets resent

unless it's specifically an issue with larger packets

@Bob entirely possible

fragment size on the WiFi PHY layer could be an issue

hmm

in the meanwhile, a reboot of the damned desktop & things are okay :|

@Sathya try a ping /t /l 1472 routerip

wonder if putting it to sleep & resuming it causes some problems

and then try it with the DNS server

for reference, hitting 8.8.8.8 I get 32ms with the larger packet size, compared to 18ms at default - so it does have a significant effect

you could give it a shot with size 8192 as well, that would almost definitely fragment

rofl

:P

ok, weird. now things are getting screwed

C:\Users\sathya>ping /t 10.0.0.1

Pinging 10.0.0.1 with 32 bytes of data:
Request timed out.
Reply from 10.0.0.1: bytes=32 time=415ms TTL=64
Reply from 10.0.0.1: bytes=32 time=486ms TTL=64
Reply from 10.0.0.1: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=64
Reply from 10.0.0.1: bytes=32 time=91ms TTL=64
Reply from 10.0.0.1: bytes=32 time=217ms TTL=64
Reply from 10.0.0.1: bytes=32 time=108ms TTL=64
Reply from 10.0.0.1: bytes=32 time=666ms TTL=64
Reply from 10.0.0.1: bytes=32 time=544ms TTL=64
Reply from 10.0.0.1: bytes=32 time=535ms TTL=64

that's more along the lines of what I'd expect from a bad wifi connection

Pinging 8.8.8.8 with 1472 bytes of data:
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=1472 time=127ms TTL=55
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=1472 time=134ms TTL=55
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=1472 time=96ms TTL=55
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=1472 time=99ms TTL=55
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=1472 time=108ms TTL=55
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=1472 time=98ms TTL=55
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=1472 time=162ms TTL=55
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=1472 time=104ms TTL=55
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=1472 time=101ms TTL=55
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=1472 time=88ms TTL=55

C:\Users\sathya>
C:\Users\sathya>ping /t 8.8.8.8

Pinging 8.8.8.8 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=49ms TTL=55
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=55
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=49ms TTL=55
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=50ms TTL=55
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=55
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=50ms TTL=55
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=49ms TTL=55
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=49ms TTL=55
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=49ms TTL=55

plenty of variability, though you have more variability to the wifi AP than you do to google DNS

didn't know Google was deploying DNSTTH

now that's distributed computing

to me that just looks like you are having periodic crosstalk / band contention with other wifi devices in your vicinity, and when they are talking, yours gets drowned out

probably because they aren't doing CTS/RTS (properly, or at all)

or, could be that when it's in 20 MHz width mode, it works fine because the narrow band is more reliable (but slower), but when it moves to 40 MHz mode, it starts overlapping with too much crosstalk, and quality degrades

@allquixotic which reminds me, I need to figure out how to set up CTS/RTS sometime

just enabling it absolutely kills the wifi

might be useful to go into wifi AP settings page and look for channel width and lock it at 20 MHz

blah

being stuck with wireless sucks :/

few things are more broken than wifi in the high-tech world

ok, maybe VT-D is more broken

lol

@allquixotic: yeah

silly thing is all my boxen have gig-e and I'm not using it

reddit.com/r/funny/comments/1t2r5p/…

@allquixotic and, amazingly, it actually works half the time

oh! oh! oh! I know what's more broken than VT-D and WiFi! :D

LucidLogix Virtu MVP. Joke/scam/fake product. Doesn't work. At all. Ever. :P

@allquixotic as far as things more broken - standards support in browsers (c. 2008)? :P

a waste of silicon on the mobo

@Bob HTML5 video... EME... JavaScript in IE... yeahhh

@Sathya is "kurast" yours?

@allquixotic yes

@Sathya what the fuck are you sitting next to a NASA NSA communications array or something?

@Bob lol

@allquixotic @Bob !! s/S/S/ (source)

GAH

@allquixotic fixed :)

I think NASA and NSA don't operate in India, but maybe the Indian equivalent is

@Sathya try putting it on channel 11

so what's the verdict - too many overlapping networks? bad link?

@Sathya not too many, it's one ridiculously overpowered network

@Sathya if you're at all able to, use 5 GHz... as in, get all 5 GHz equipment...

@Bob I wonder if "Patchigondla" is using a SDR that violates max TX power specs

@allquixotic I'm not sure it's possible to achieve that kind of transmission power legally on WiFi

@Bob hence SDR

@allquixotic I can't go 5Ghz, the desktop's attached to a adapter which does 2.4 only

@Sathya and it can't be replaced?

@Bob @allq how does that work