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4:00 PM
@Ariane unlocker and takeownership can do some of that without leaving the system.
 
@Ariane use any Linux CD and delete them from the command line.
 
@Ariane Ubuntu is a large Linux distro relative to other smaller ones like SystemRescueCD
 
@terdon Don't overstimate me.
 
Preferably not Ubuntu, use a "real" Linux.
@Ariane I'd be happy to walk you through it, it is very simple
Alternatively, empty the trash from Linux
 
not sure why it put stuff in the ".Trash-999" folder though, unless you simply sent them to the recycle bin instead of actually deleting
 
4:01 PM
@Psycogeek What I want to get rid of is ProgramData. Unlocker won,t do.
 
Actually, I seem to recall there were 2 ways of deleting from GUI in ubuntu, one deletes and the other places in trash.
 
@terdon: hm. ubuntu is a real linux ;p
 
@allquixotic I know next to nothing about Linux. I right clicked, I did delete, the stuff was gone, I left.
 
shift+delete deletes
 
but doing it from command line is a better idea
 
4:01 PM
@JourneymanGeek depends on your definition
 
I prefer to avoid ubuntu, but thats a preference thing
 
They have added a lot of Windows-style, the user is an idiot limitations like the one Arianne encountered.
 
@terdon: it runs a linux kernel. it runs X. It has a DE designed by egomaniacs.
@terdon: Oh, I run KDE.
 
But really a GUI would be by far preferable. I'm just not a very command-line person.
 
@Ariane just make sure you empty the trash then.
 
4:02 PM
@Ariane if you still have Ubuntu on a flash drive, you can boot it up again (without re-burning any Linux distro to a drive or CD again) and actually delete them for real
 
@terdon Thing is I never saw any trash. But then again, I didn't look. It didn't say send to trash, it said delete, so. o.o
 
you just hold shift then press the delete key on your keyboard while you have the file(s) selected
it's really that simple
 
@allquixotic I don't. Which is why I'd like to be suggested something simpler, smaller, but preferably a bit more than a black screen with white commands.
 
@Ariane the whole Programdata folder or parts of it?
 
@Ariane it really is simple, just use the GUI as @allquixotic suggested.
 
4:04 PM
@Ariane smaller is sort of by definition going to be less friendly, although there are a few tiny distros that have a graphical interface, but they would be less familiar to someone who is used to Windows
there's Puppy Linux but it's rarely updated and the GUI is terrid (horrid + terrible)
 
no, not puppy.
maybe siltaz?
nice gui, VERY small
 
I tried both a while ago. Error messages on boot.
 
@Ariane just use Ubuntu? you didn't delete the ISO file you downloaded to burn it, did you?
 
@Psycogeek All of it. No, both of them. I want to reinstall my Windows which is spread across two drives, which, with how Windows is made, isn,t simple.
@allquixotic I don't have it anymore.
 
@Ariane argghh, and the main reason you want a small download is because you have a slow internet connection? or capped?
 
4:06 PM
@BobJim Welcome to Root Access chat for Super Users! I am this channel's helpful chat bot. Please don't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help. For bot commands, type !!listcommands
 
Or wait maybe I do somewhere in a dusty folder.
 
I know you like the GUI. But the easiest solution is 'any linux distribution' and 'use a shell' (aka rm Appdata).
@allquixotic Capped IIRC from a few months ago
 
@allquixotic Capped, and because I just downloaded Windows 8.1 three times until I gave up on the simple update option.
 
@Hennes stalker ;p
@Ariane argh
 
Whut! I had enough coffee today. So my mind works.
 
4:07 PM
@allquixotic I can redownload it, but to be honest a smaller option would be nice.
 
how about DSL?
 
My connection is cable. oo' (pretty sure you didn't mean THAT DSL but that's the only kind I know)
 
Ariane: Got a windows 7 DVD ? (or maybe 8 as well, but I did not test that).
 
Then boot, F10 to the command line. Cd /users/ariane/.... Del
 
4:08 PM
~50 MB, they don't come smaller than that
 
@Hennes I do, but, CLI.
 
@Ariane then you would probably want to add HardLink thing to the list, because of all the crasy crosslinking going on.
 
@allquixotic wholey untrue. I remember saving systems from the brink with good old floppy linux distros not altogether too long ago...
 
@Psycogeek Wha?
 
@Ariane I know. Also least extra download option if you already had a disc.
 
4:10 PM
Honestly 50 mb isn't the end of the world
 
@Ariane its some program that shows where all the hard links are and how many of them. I donno, I just abuse the system, don't understand it.
 
@JimmyHoffa I meant for a modern general purpose Linux distro running on x86 hardware -- with the amount of drivers you have to ship, just the Linux kernel itself with a general-purpose x86_64 kernel would eat up at least 30 MB worth of binaries, bzipped or LZMA'ed
@JimmyHoffa obviously if you pare down the system to its bare minimum and ship exactly the drivers you need and compile with -Os and turn on special flags in .config that cut out huge swaths of the kernel that are generally useful for general-purpose distros, then zip everything up with LZMA2, you can probably get it down to under a megabyte if you ship just a tiny shell or busybox with the kernel
but that's almost never done outside of embedded systems where the user would never have the capability to gain root, much less do something low level with the device
 
@Psycogeek and then... they cancel House MD :(
 
@allquixotic I know, is crazy... The sheer size of everything in linux boggles my mind anymore after having taken a decade away from it from like 2000 - 2010... Coming back to it, it was no longer the simple OS of once upon a time..
 
Anyone know where I can find an explanation of S.M.A.R.T. error codes?
 
4:13 PM
there's also bloat / code size -- modern Linux, at its core, is much larger even without device drivers than the Linux kernel "not altogether too long ago" (say, 1999)
 
Error 1649 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 5265 hours (219 days + 9 hours)
When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was active or idle.
Also get the same message with errors 1650 1651 1652
 
@terdon most SMART stuff is extremely hardware-specific
 
Aye.
 
I'd like to mention that 1999 is a freaking eternity ago.
 
yeah, I checked the relevant page for WD drives and those codes do not exist
 
4:14 PM
Some of it is standarised. Only some
 
didn't read it, but seems extensive enough
 
@Braiam thanks but those are different error codes
 
yeah
too generic
 
@allquixotic Uhm, what tool would I use to "burn" that iso into my USB key?
 
@terdon "Error 1649" could be an error code from the program that's checking the SMART, so, what program are you getting that from? BIOS? gsmartcontrol? Windows?
 
4:16 PM
@allquixotic smartctl but I can find no mention of those codes in its manpage or the docs from the home page
@Ariane www.pendrivelinux.com
 
@allquixotic do_use_windows("terdon")?
 
Okay, both of you, agree on one please. xD
 
go to pendrivelinux, that looks easier
 
4:17 PM
@Ariane they have very nice howtos, the tools are equivalent. I have had good results with multisystem. (first of the above 2 links)
 
@allquixotic Just burn a mythbuntu live CD, you get to boot to a linux to fix all your problems, and watch TV while you wait for your problems to be fixed
 
@terdon "Multisystem Prerequisites:

Ubuntu Linux or Ubuntu Based System (can use an Ubuntu CD or USB)"
 
Oh, bugger, sorry (blush)
 
@JimmyHoffa I don't think you are really aware of the full context of what's going on -- @Ariane is having the problem, not me; furthermore, her Internet is capped and she is trying to avoid downloading a large binary, but she wants a graphical interface, so we're looking for a small distro with a basic X environment of some sort for her to delete files on an NTFS volume from.
a Mythbuntu download is not what could be considered small
 
4:19 PM
that's at least 700 MB, maybe more if they've decided to break CD support
 
@terdon But whymultiboot?
 
I found your comment funny regardless -- "watch TV while you wait for your problems to be fixed" heh
 
@Ariane Just because it was the one I knew, just have a look at the left hand side links on that page, they suggest various tools that can do this from windows
 
@terdon No uhm, but "multi". I basically only need one, don't I?
 
@Calin Welcome to Root Access chat for Super Users! I am this channel's helpful chat bot. Please don't ask if you can ask or if anyone's around; just ask your question, and if anyone's free and interested they'll help. For bot commands, type !!listcommands
 
4:21 PM
Yes but just use it for one, that's OK
 
Does anyone know how could I run a bash script without destroying data o disk? I want to test the scripts until they do what I want. Is it possible to use a sandbox or something like that?
 
@Ariane just pick one of these: pendrivelinux.com/category/new-usb-linux-tutorials that's their list of windows based methods
@Calin yes but it depends on the script and what it does etc etc.
 
chrooting, no?
 
@Calin A virtual machine is a solution, though there's surely something easier.
 
So, y'all think the SMART error codes are HW specific? I'm trying to answer a Q on Unix & Linux and the OP is getting this SMART output. I think he has a failing drive but the self-assessment test is PASSED. On the other hand he gets those error codes :freetexthost.com/4z6lfhorpc
 
4:23 PM
@allquixotic I was joking; obviously mythbuntu live cd is not an appropriate approach to fixing an install
 
Woah! Clippy is back?
 
@terdon Let's say, I want to modify data from a file, or rename a file.
 
@Calin just make a copy of the file and work on the copy then
 
@Ariane A VM is useless if I have huge files(over 1 TB)
 
@terdon he never left
 
4:24 PM
@terdon Clippy returned in a windows update; that would be the ultimate trolling...
 
@terdon I think this is the only solution.. but for huge files :(
 
@terdon probably is a limit that fired up
 
@terdon: 1752 isn't the error code. its the error number
 
Lol, I was gonna try the instructions on the DSL page from @allquixotic, and then "download and COMPILE". Yeah. Next. Haha.
 
4:25 PM
@Calin maybe some kind of overlay filesystem that only records the diffs made to a file at the block level?
 
@JourneymanGeek 1752? Gah, I would have lost count somewhere after 14 beeps, that must have taken forever for him to listen through...
 
@Ariane Method V seems simple enough
 
@allquixotic Exactly. Reading your answer, I remind that I could use Git to stage my files.
 
@allquixotic Oh, I see.
 
4:27 PM
@Ariane do you already have a *nix computer somewhere? or is this your only computer? Do you know anyone who does have *nix, or otherwise speaks Shibboleet?
 
when it says "download embedded zip", just grab this: distro.ibiblio.org/damnsmall/release_candidate/…
@Calin git will make at least one copy though -- the blob in ~/.git and the working tree
 
@JourneymanGeek ah, which means what exactly?
@Calin what are you trying to do? The standard MO is to use head to get the first N lines, try the script on that to make sure it works and then do it on the whole thing.
 
@JimmyHoffa No to all answers.
Eh. To all questions.
Or wait no, "Is this your only computer?" that's yes.
 
-_-
so once you reboot you lose contact with us until you're back in windows?
 
@Ariane Have you a smartphone? SE chat works fairly well on mine
 
4:31 PM
Yeah, I do have one. So in case of emergency I can come. I wouldn't say it works fine but it works, heh.
 
Statistically speaking, someone is probably reading all of this on their phone on the head right now. I'm just putting that one out there for everyone to masticate on...
 
Mmmh?
 
@JimmyHoffa @JourneymanGeek I'm not sure what you mean. The OP's output has 4 errors, are you saying that error 1752 means there were 1751 different errors before it?
And @JimmyHoffa please don't use head and masticate in that context in the same sentence :)
 
@terdon rofl
mast ... ate
urb, ic... same difference
 
@terdon ATA Error Count: 1652 (device log contains only the most recent five errors)
 
4:34 PM
AHA
@DarthAndroid is right !
 
@DarthAndroid gotcha! Thanks, I missed that. So the drive is dying despite reporting that it passed the tests?
 
Looks like it errors every time something tries to query the max size
 
@terdon Could you give me a reference or tell some words about this standard? Thank you!
 
@terdon it's throwing "ATA Errors", which can be caused by a problem that SMART isn't detecting
 
so, possibly firmware or damaged controller
or just a firmware bug
platters look fine
no reallocated sectors
read raw error rate is 200/200 which is good
 
4:35 PM
@terdon 1652 bad watchamahoozits on a drive is really likely an insignificant amount of bits, plausibly correctible and not indicative of the health of the physical media
 
@Calin just standard MO, modus operandi, not a standard as such. The command head prints out the first N lines, so try head -n 200 or something and run the script on that
 
properties 196-200 are all 200/200, which is good
 
wait, do SSD have S.M.A.R.T.?
 
yes?
 
@JimmyHoffa @DarthAndroid have a look at this:
1
Q: Is there any software for Debian to fix my GRUB

user49418Sometimes, when I boot up my PC, I find that after the logo screen, an _ (underscore) is blinking and the machine does not boot. After that I have to unplug it from the mains and restart it and then it runs fine. So, Please tell me what has happened to my PC? My specifications are Debian 7, 512 ...

 
4:36 PM
@terdon Thanks a lot! Have a nice day/night!
 
So, the OP sometimes can't boot and I figured that the drive is failing and sometimes is not initialized correctly.
@Calin you're welcome. Let me know if you need more help
 
@terdon I used to have a *nix script that would take parameters to go online and order pizza, technically my linux was fixing my grub then...
 
@terdon Not near enough information there to debug that, and I don't know what information to ask for
 
@JimmyHoffa :)
@DarthAndroid yeah
 
That's either bad hardware, or something buggy with the bootloader, but isn't necessarily *nix related
 
4:37 PM
@terdon is more probable that grub is just not intalled/damaged
 
@terdon (is smart different for different hardware) I have read of Seagate using some of the SMART data slots for proprietary information, threw off some smart interpretation program into thinking they were bad. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T. only thing I trust is reading the raw data, and trying to do the interpretation myself. Data layout handed to us there is a mess.
 
@allquixotic Problem.
 
@DarthAndroid yes, it has nothing to do with the OS, that's why I thought SMART
 
it might be an issue of drives not coming online fast enough and something timing out
 
@Braiam no cause it does work sometimes
 
4:38 PM
I'm downloading this. dsl-4.11.rc2-syslinux.iso
 
possibly disable staggered spinup if there are multiple drives in the system
 
@DarthAndroid that's what I was thinking
 
But in the dropdown list of the universal USB thingie, I only see "DSL 4.4.10".
 
@Psycogeek ouch...
@Ariane that's the one you downloaded
 
@Psycogeek Problem with raw data is it is 100% manufacturer specific
 
4:39 PM
@Ariane scratch that, misread
 
different bits of each number can mean different things
 
@terdon did he check out cables, etc.? could be a PEBKAC
 
@Braiam PEBKAC?
 
@terdon ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE these are different columns , the data under it should be under those columns , so it is a mess.
 
An endangered species of duck?
 
4:39 PM
@Ariane did you select the ISO you downloaded?
 
i.e. 1024 corrected errors? No, manufacturer X just uses bit 10 to say that the drive is fine.
 
@Ariane hmm, sec
 
Sometimes I really wish "network boot" would actually deliver as simply as the name makes it sound like it would... I wonder if UEFI intelligent firmware has made this a greater reality than the old PXEBoot pain in the ass
 
@terdon As I'm saying, the only one in the dropdown list is not the same version.
 
@terdon Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair
 
4:40 PM
@Braiam ah, that one
 
@JimmyHoffa turn on PC -> enter wifi credentials -> enter URL of image to boot from (HTTPS)?
 
@JimmyHoffa Booting from the network isn't difficult from the client side, it's getting the netboot server running that's finicky :P
 
Oh, we call that an error code 12. The problem is 12 inches in front of the screen.
 
@DarthAndroid @allquixotic knows what I mean
 
Well, "we". The really old IT people.
 
4:41 PM
@Ariane if this is what I think it is, the "USB thingie" just has some presets, it should work fine if you select that as long as the next step lets you pick an ISO
 
('Cause only the old ones went to school with inches.)
 
@Ariane I've also heard it called an ID-10-T error.
 
@Ariane come off it, how old are you?
 
22.
 
11 years younger than me does NOT qualify as really old anything :)
dammit
 
4:42 PM
Youngin'.
 
@Ariane i agree w/ terdon
and yeah you are a n00b at life at 22 :P
j/k
 
THough I think he wasn't calling himself really old
 
And come off what? If I come off my chair my knees will hurt, kneeling on the ground and all.
 
I think he was saying the really old IT people that he works iwth
 
<---She.
 
4:43 PM
*she
sorry
 
And nay, I don't work with them especially. More, like, those hanging around. Real and "family IT person" IT people.
 
!!define "come off it"
 
@terdon My pocket dictionary just isn't good enough for you.
 
(I was making a joke.)
 
@Ariane you need to stop chating with oldies (like us) and run!
 
4:43 PM
@Ariane Ah, I though it was unknown in the states or something
 
Run where?
 
@Hennes We are like monkeys
 
she's from Canada
 
Ah, sorry. .Net has sucked all the humor out of me. I only really laugh when watching someone try to use WinForms these days.
 
I live in Canada, and I don't know the expression but I can guess it's an odd way of saying "come to think of it".
 
4:44 PM
@DarthAndroid O_O
 
@Ariane no, it's a way of saying "stop the cherades" or "stop joking around"
 
@DarthAndroid the raw data that is needed to determine if it is failing, is only a few things, and most of them start at 0. Plus some of them are session based and reset on init, and many of them don't matter as much as some thinks they do. The reallocated sectors, and if they are getting more and more. as bad as the data is, I don't see anything wrong with it.
 
@allquixotic Problem. It ONLY wants me to select a ZIP file. But the thing I'm downloading (yes, still, it's pretty slow) is an ISO.
 
@all will be happy.
 
Why people chase after most expensive SSD models instead of paying half as much for previous proven models and getting double capacity? Normal computer use will not notice difference between first and latter, especially considering today's power of CPUs and GPUs.
 
4:46 PM
@Boris_yo Marketing.
 
@Ariane blah... maybe try unetbootin ? :/
@Boris_yo I value capacity over speed, but capacity is expensive
even for regular HDDs
 
@Boris_yo I hope they used a fresh SSD for each test
 
@JimmyHoffa Hello, it's not 1989 anymore
 
4:48 PM
@allquixotic I value reliability and capacity because speed will always be good for my use regardless of model.
 
@JimmyHoffa are we still using ISA!?!?!
 
I remember using LPT1 for printer
 
@OliverSalzburg Crucial M4 vs. Samsung 840 Evo
 
or maybe MIDI
 
@allquixotic Downloading it from Unetbootin. Sounds safer.
 
4:49 PM
@Boris_yo Thanks, but I can actually read
3
 
@Ariane k... although it will probably try to download an ancient version because the release candidate they just put out isn't final yet :(
 
@Braiam I thought we were having a hardware spec diagram battle...
 
@OliverSalzburg ooh, witty today
 
@allquixotic blah, be it as ancient as Windows XP, if it works, it works.
 
2 mins ago, by Oliver Salzburg
@Boris_yo I hope they used a fresh SSD for each test
You were unsure I thought...
 
4:51 PM
I think I understand now why people are such "machine whores" and get the latest gadgets all the time. I used to have old stuff and not care, but now that I have a PC with pretty good hardware and all, I get this little feeling of frustration inside when I see something better is out, haha.
 
@Boris_yo Right. I was pointing out that they should use a fresh SSD for each single test. If they didn't then the first tests may have impacted the results of the later tests
 
(Also, WTF is with the chat flagging system? I frequently have flag notices that I click on and there are no flagged messages, but the badge still says "1", and I just got one now and when trying to respond to it, received "You can only counter-flag messages that have been flagged." ....?!?!?! )
 
So you need to throw the used ones in the garbage and use a fresh one for each test to get clean results
 
@allquixotic You say capacity in HDDs is still expensive today? Is it 50c per GB? What capacity pricing would you call not expensive then?
 
@DarthAndroid wait, you get flags at all?
 
4:51 PM
@DarthAndroid the "1" doesn,t vanish until you post something or click it.
 
@DarthAndroid They are the sticky flag notifs.
 
4
Q: When there are no chat flags, hide the flag count

Oliver SalzburgI have chat open all day and every once in a while I come back to it to see this: Oh, wow, a flag! Let's click on it! Oh, okay, no flag for me :( So I close the bubble, but the flag counter stays there for me to repeat this process over and over again until I refresh my browser window. I u...

 
@Ariane it's an addiction -- BUT mine is mainly driven by rising software requirements, not by envying peoples' newer hardware
 
Apparently it was already fixed ;P
 
@Ariane That's wanting to have hardware better than others'
 
4:52 PM
@Ariane I click on them, and they say there's no flags, but it stays at 1. Do I have to post after clicking on it?
 
@DarthAndroid It really means you are darn slow
@DarthAndroid She's talking about the ping notifs. Not the flag notifs.
 
@Boris_yo Hell no, I'm the least competitive person ever.
@Darth Listen to the mods.
 
They are different
 
@OliverSalzburg What do you mean fresh SSD? Out of the box?
 
4:53 PM
@Boris_yo Yes
2
 
It's just annoying because I'll come back after being away for an hour or two, and see the flag motif, but can't get it to disappear without reloading the page.
 
cough
 
@DarthAndroid Please see my meta post above ;P
 
@allquixotic Heh, can't be too addicted. Can't even afford clothes, and I live with 6 pairs of pants, one of which is chic and not so good for school, 1 of which is too tight and hurts my hips, and another of which is too tight at the hips AND is too short.
 
@DarthAndroid It's not motif in the sense I meant but you can call it that. I was saying notif because I am lazy to type notifications.
@Ariane TMI
 
4:54 PM
(Which means I necessarily have to either wear bad stuff or re-wear stuff twice every week)
 
@Ariane you have six pairs of pants? wow, i only have two
 
Ah, thanks @OliverSalzburg
 
/me sneaks off to buy a Surface Pro 2
 
@allquixotic That's because you're a guy I guess. You can,t understand deeply disliking the idea of rewearing clothes.
 
Anyone tried Fedora 20? I can't install it on my External HDD.
 
4:56 PM
@jokerdino Hah, story of my life. I talk too much.
 
@Ariane You reveal too much.
 
@OliverSalzburg I am sure they do. They tested newest pre-production Evo's units. First failed, they send it back and got back another which also failed. Samsung were notified and rectified firmware issue. Guys tested again and so far no issues.
 
@jokerdino Fedora's installer is pretty buggy
 
@Ariane so I guess all the women in uniforms must be about to blow their tops ?
 
@allquixotic so I hear.
How else can I install it on my ext HDD?
 
4:57 PM
@Psycogeek People usually get several copies of their uniforms. Or do their laundry several times a week.
 
@jokerdino install it somewhere where it works and copy over the files, then run grub2 manually? :P
 
@allquixotic Too much work. Boo
 
@Ariane what's wrong with that? as long as I only wipe my face on my shirt and not my pants, and I have 5 shirts for 5 weekdays, I'm good
 
@allquixotic Giving up on that redownload, after all this time it's like 5 %. Using the ISO.
 
@Ariane I donno , I think we might be onto something. Why you don't want to be messing with a lady cop . Because she had to wear the same outfit for 5 DAYS :-)
 
4:59 PM
Who played side-scroller beat-em up "Shank" and "Shank 2" (available on Steam)?
 
@allquixotic I have only 3 :(
 
@JimmyHoffa Internal units: Diskette drive? WTF? The diskdrive controller was usually on a separate card on the ISA bus, or added as a secondary ISA device to another card (such as an adaptec 1542 CF).
 
@Boris_yo I seriously doubt they do what I had implied
 
@allquixotic I can't begin to describe how many things are wrong with that. Also I only have 4 shirts, 3 of them require a tank top underneath, and I only have 2. There's a lot of wrong with that. (@jokerdino must be deeply disliking this.)
 

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