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1:00 PM
@Flimzy uh oh.
 
Install an editor that requires less testosterone to use.
 
an emacs fan boy approaches what do you do:
 
I've actually never used emacs
 
I wouldn't have the first clue how to deal with that flimzy.
 
1:01 PM
Hrm...
I can feel that look....
 
@Flimzy darn I felt sure your issue would be with the holy war between vi and emacs :). Cagey old text editors is where its at :)
 
It's the same look I get from most people when I say "No, Evolution is bunk. And yes, I believe the universe is billions of years old, too"
 
I'm using ugly tutorials to get magento running on this via command line
 
says the coder who is very happy with visual studio 2008
 
@JonathonByrd may I reply to you claim, that leaching is a serious concern for any dating method?
 
1:02 PM
@waxeagle ur a microsoft puppet are you?
 
@JonathonByrd: For a beginner, I recommend nano as an editor... it doesn't have a lot of features, but it shows the important key commands at the bottom of the screen
 
@BeatMe in my question you can.
 
@JonathonByrd vb.net. But I've dealt with java, C and Scheme just not since college
 
@BeatMe I do appreciate your talks, and I appreciate your gentle approach here as well. but I believe it would be best placed as an answer.
 
all of our C was done in vim
 
1:03 PM
When can we expect some of our tag synonym suggestions to be acted on?
I keep retagging questions with these tags...
 
hello room :)
 
@waxeagle you know java?
 
1. When Hedge decides to ask
2. When we have enough 1250 rep users
3. When we have pro-tems
@JonathonByrd ~
 
@Flimzy Your right, he's missing the m.
 
@Flimzy I'm updating my repos right now, whats the apt-get package for nano?
 
1:04 PM
@JonathonByrd I think it's just called nano... But since I don't use RH, I can't be 100% sure.
 
@JonathonByrd its rusty (haven't coded in it in 3~ years), but yes I know Java
 
@JonathonByrd I think he's referring to it's initial learning curve: unix.stackexchange.com/questions/986/…
 
@Caleb I actually found the syntax highlighting and spacing conventions pretty solid for a terminal editor. I liked it a lot
 
@waxeagle We're picking up a new client that has built a website off of java. our contract will be to manage their site and we don't know java.. bravo to the sales guy...
 
@JonathonByrd hilarious. Do you know C, C++ or C#?
 
1:05 PM
@Flimzy Right now I'm working with a lucid linux instance on Amazon Web Services
@waxeagle I have taken a course in c++ I know perl, asp, php, javascript
 
@Caleb: I like the emacs learning curve chart
 
@waxeagle I looked at the java code and it didn't look too different from what I'm used to.
 
@JonathonByrd yeah, it shouldn't be too hard, its a fairly easy language. Eclipse used to be a pretty nice DE if you are looking for one
 
@Flimzy I tried nano and it didnt work. I tried to use apt-search and apt-get search and neither worked.
@waxeagle I use eclipse already
 
@JonathonByrd My console editor of choice is 'joe', you could try that... but it's not as easy to learn as nano
 
1:08 PM
@JonathonByrd well then you are in good shape :).
 
@Flimzy I have enough to learn :) I need easy
 
@JonathonByrd And if you only rarely edit files in Linux, then easy to learn is probably the most important thing
 
whatever they call what microsoft calls intellisense is a serious form of cheating, but makes developing so so so much easier.
 
@waxeagle We have a conference call between the old developers and the owner of this java project. I just laughed. that's a recipe for disaster.
 
@JonathonByrd Try pico
 
1:09 PM
no pico package
no nano package
oh.. joe is installing...
 
@JonathonByrd yes, yes it is. You said its a java web app?
 
How about atto? :P
 
Huh. RHEL version?
 
@waxeagle yea
@Caleb It might be 5.~
no atto package
@ElendiaStarman u a programmer to?
 
@JonathonByrd Are they open to a complete re-build or are they just looking for maintenance? Java isn't exacly well loved in the web app world :)
 
1:11 PM
can I just pay one of you to setup my servers? :)
 
haha
 
@waxeagle they just want maintenance
 
@JonathonByrd Your package repos must be broken, it should be nano.
 
@Caleb I probably dont have the right reps
 
@JonathonByrd bummer :)
 
1:12 PM
@Flimzy ok what are my joe commands?
 
@JonathonByrd I am! Although I was making a joke there about prefixes. :P
 
Ctrl-K H
 
@Flimzy nvm I'll just go find more tutorials :)
 
will bring up the help menu
to show you everything else useful
 
nice
thx
 
1:14 PM
If by some incredibly strange stroke of luck, you ever used Wordstar in DOS... joe uses the same commands
I guess Mr. Joe thought that was useful at some point
I never used Wordstar... although I did use some other DOS editor that also emulated wordstar at one point
That may or may not be why I started using joe initially
I don't really remember
 
Nobody want to take me up on my offer?
I'm looking for somebody, part time or other than can assist with lamp
 
long term?
 
@Flimzy seeing as we just purchased two hosting servers ($10k bill) we'll always have the need.
 
Or just to get things running initially?
 
@Flimzy but that doesnt mean you'll need to stick around long term
 
1:18 PM
Hrm
I might be interested, but I'd need more details before I can commit.
 
we constantly have projects in this area because we're transfering from server to server
right now we have three projects that are on my plate.
 
So I just went to your web site to find your email address... and your web site tells me 403
 
@Flimzy yup. its in the process of being transfered :)
 
Do you use google talk?
 
1:20 PM
I just tried to add you... [email protected]
 
ditto
@waxeagle wax, would you be interested in sitting in with me on this java program conference call?
 
@JonathonByrd Sorry I really can't, gotta do my real job
 
@waxeagle no worries.
 
@JonathonByrd what is your company called?
 
website just went up so we still have lorem to deal with
the old company was 5twentystudios.com
 
1:27 PM
btw guys, vim is the greatest editor known to man.
 
@dancek the sarcasm, I can taste it
 
debian >> rhel/centos, postgres >> mysql, vim >> emacs/notepad
 
@dancek fair enough. Haven't actually tried emacs, used vim in college for all my C work. Really prefer a robust (read cheater) IDE :)
 
@waxeagle the sarcasm is more in fighting about such things... seriously I use vim all the time, and while I realize not everyone wants to learn it, it's the best one for me.
 
1:30 PM
@dancek fair enough. Its really good at what it does, and some folks are wizards with it. I haven't used it enough to be awesome with it...
 
I can't really see why people religiously fight about software, but then I can't always see why people religiously fight about religion.
 
@dancek Don't tell me you use it "all the time" unless you wrote that chat message in it. (And for reference, yes I am writing these chats in vim)
 
@Caleb wow! I humbly bow at thy presence.
 
@Caleb haha
 
1:32 PM
@Caleb more seriously, is there a plugin that does that ~out of the box, cause you got me interested :)
 
@dancek Thank you thank you. And for reference it's called edit-server. All text-areas in my browser are outsourced to an external editor. Focusing on them launches an instance of gvim.
 
Did y'all know, btw, that the creator of vim is a Christian?
 
Is it possible to connect to this chat using XMPP or IRC or somesuch?
 
how do I exit this joe screen?
 
Ctrl-K X to save and exit
 
1:34 PM
@Flimzy I've seen some hacks but they are not very usable.
 
ah... few
 
Ctrl-C to exit without saving
 
@Caleb umm... I'd see the point of having the whole chat in vim or irssi, but launching gvim instances inside web browser, dunno.
 
how do I launch a file in joe?
joe /path/to ?
 
@Caleb: No need to launch them inside a web browser... you can launch them inside of emacs!
@JonathonByrd yes
 
1:35 PM
 
@dancek I have it bound to a key-stroke for chat because it's not always a good thing since this editor has some special javascript wiring to the rest of the page, but for writing up answers on SE sites it's the cats meow.
@dancek I wondered how long it was going to be before somebody whipped that out. The back story is a crack-up.
 
@Caleb I can see the benefits for writing posts, but then I've just manually used vim for that when I like
 
@dancek one of my favorites :)
 
WooHoo! I successfully edited my first file in joe..
 
hehe, congrats
 
1:42 PM
@JonathonByrd plz let me know, what you think about it
 
@BeatMe reading now
 
I've been wondering how the SE model handles accepting "wrong" answers. I see no real way around the problem.
Say that someone were to write a Creationism-supporting answer to @JonathonByrd's question there and he accepted it. The community might not be happy about it, and there might be better answers, but what can they do?
 
@BeatMe btw I didn't add all that hovind stuff. that was all edited in. you're answer doesnt really focus on my question. it's more defending carbon dating. I don't dispute that one can accurately determine the amount of c14 in an object.
 
Of course, we're very vulnerable to the same here.
 
@dancek There really isn't one. If the post author chooses to accept the wrong answer there is nothing you can do but dv it or upvote a different right answer. There is a badge four outpacing a well voted accepted answer.
 
1:47 PM
@dancek go write a creationist argument and I'll accept it :)
 
@waxeagle If this happened on a large scale, it could really ruin both Skeptics and us.
@JonathonByrd no.
 
@dancek A diamond mod can delete an accepted answer, but they are the only ones, not even the OP can do that. We had a situation in RPG where the OP wanted to nuke his own answer and couldnt because it had been accepted even though it was wrong.
 
whats the OP?
whats it stand for
 
@JonathonByrd Original Poster.
 
@JonathonByrd original poster. In this case the person who answers the question
 
1:49 PM
so the questioner
 
@JonathonByrd see above.
 
For reference, OG stands for Original Gangster.
 
so the first answer?
 
@JonathonByrd anyone who posts an answer is the OP for that answer
 
and OS, original sin? or sinner?
 
1:50 PM
@JonathonByrd No. The Question OP would be the person who posted the question, but the OP of an answer is just the person who posted that answer even if got edited later, etc. Post Owner is another moniker.
 
@Flimzy Windows is the OS.
 
@Flimzy Original Sinner. OS = Adam
 
It wasn't Eve?
 
@Flimzy blame them both :)
 
@Flimzy It wasn't Satan?
 
1:51 PM
@Flimzy that needs to be a question :)
 
haha
How about this question: "Which did God create first? The chicken or the egg?"
 
0
Q: Who sinned first?

CalebIn the Biblical account, Eve ate the first first. Yet Adam is blamed with the problem of original sin. How is that fair?

 
ate the first first?
 
AH!
I just posted that!
 
@Caleb intriguing.
 
1:53 PM
woo hoo! I posted first :)
haha
 
@JonathonByrd ok whoever had the earlier timestamp kill yours
 
what?
how does that work
 
@JonathonByrd I'm alive, but only semi-here. I was up all night with a sick munchkin.
 
@JonathonByrd lol I mean later. although honestly if you want to be fair Caleb's text is better :)
 
@Flimzy I had a vivid image of the apple posting "FIRST!!" just before...
 
1:54 PM
@HedgeMage I'm catching a ton of **** over on skeptics, can you mod some people?
 
@HedgeMage ick. Hope he feels better soon.
 
@JonathonByrd Hey now, just because I took ten extra seconds to put an original twist on mine....
 
@JonathonByrd really dude? You knew you were in for a s**t storm when you posted there.
 
@waxeagle haha
@waxeagle you know what, they posted here and I was respectful. I post there and get mocked and insulted.
 
1:56 PM
@waxeagle I killed mine, @JonathonByrd you're welcome to steal my copy if you want.
 
@waxeagle I'm not going to complain. I was still very respectful to the right answer, but that's just no way to operate an SE community
 
@JonathonByrd If you want to link me, I'll look, but depending on if they really went crazy or are just being their usual skeptical, abrasive selves, I may not be able to do much.
 
5
Q: Is carbon-14 still increasing in the atmosphere?

Jonathon ByrdOne argument used to support the idea that the age of the earth is on the order of 10,000 years old (the 'young earth hypothesis') is that radiocarbon dating is confounded by the fact that the levels are not stable, and that the concentration of carbon-14 in the atmosphere is still increasing are...

 
@JonathonByrd I'm seeing no flags for any of your posts
 
oh, looks like the guys comments were removed
 
1:58 PM
@JonathonByrd I removed the noise earlier, though there wasn't anything really offensive there. The comments were off-topic and distracting though.
 
@Fabian it was offensive only because that user unknown has been posting his sarcasm to all of my qna's
 
@JonathonByrd the Skeptics mods seem to have it under control. Some people are jerks, but if everything's working properly, they get downvoted/flagged and dealt with in the normal course of things.
 
@HedgeMage yea its taken care of now. no worries
@Caleb you can edit in your Q to mine if you'd like. I can't find yours.
 
2:24 PM
0
Q: Is God's name Yahweh or Jehovah?

dancekGod's name is written as the Tetragrammaton יהוה‎ (YHWH) in the Old Testament. The name is not vocalized in the manuscripts and it's considered ineffable, forbidden to say aloud, by Jews. For that reason, the original pronunciation hasn't been preserved. The two most commonly suggested possible ...

 
0
Q: Why should people choose Christianity over other religions?

SklivvzAssuming that one believes in an almighty Lord, why should one choose a particular Christian practice over another or even over another religion? As long as one lives in a moral fashion, why would God care that our money, faith, efforts and time go through a particular human congregation or anot...

interesting question. I'm currently trying to decide if I think its on topic or off...
 
@waxeagle ditto
@waxeagle i just replyed
 
2:53 PM
What about y'all take this to chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/1254/creationism-chat as it's generating a lot of non-Christianity.SE related converstaion?
 
again, you are making assumptions
 
@dancek sorry dancek, I'm through.
 
@dancek I can move all the posts to that room, if all participants agree that this would be better.
 
sadly this is typical for YEC, someone comes with a theory without evidence and he does not even listen or research some things for himself
sorry if i'm judging, but like i told that discussion brings us nothing further
 
@Fabian I would be in favor. But I'm not involved
 
2:56 PM
we are done ;)
 
@BeatMe the messages getting moved would clean up the transcript, if that is desirable.
 
sure alright
 
@JonathonByrd do you consent to @Fabian moving your chat too a new room?
not that he or I would actually need your consent to move it, he is just being polite :)
 
@Fabian I'm guessing from previous experience that there'll be more similar discussion, I'd mostly hope that the next ones would be over there. Maybe moving this one would kinda set a precedent
 
@dancek we can just ask them to move it and migrate the chat when it comes. Maybe even add a note about it.
 
2:59 PM
@waxeagle @Fabian that's fine with me that you move those messages, you might consider hitting all of the chat about linux too :)
 
@dancek This site certainly seems to have enough volume that splitting up the rooms makes sense
 
@waxeagle yep, I'm cool with that.
 
@JonathonByrd I don't find that necessary...
 
@waxeagle I wasn't trying to be rude. i was just assuming you where cleaning up the room.
 
3:01 PM
is there a creationism.se?
2
 
@JonathonByrd actually lol'd at this
 
@JonathonByrd lol
 
whats the url?
 
@JonathonByrd you can propose one :)
 
oh
sorry... buried in linux over here fogs the brain...
 
3:03 PM
@JonathonByrd @dancek just forked a chat so we can take creation topics out of the main room. @Fabian moved the convo you guys were having.
for some reason fork is my word of the day :)
 
i saw that.
 
@waxeagle fork was my utensil of the day!
 
@dancek lol
 
@dancek my cube only has spoons
its a problem occasionally
 
@waxeagle I went through a year of military service eating with only a spoon whenever outside the barracks area... no problem there, sir!
 
3:07 PM
@Fabian does your question require that we assume omnibenevolence? Or are you open to a disputation of that?
 
@waxeagle sounds like you're in lockdown
 
@dancek I usually manage to improvise, I had spaghetti one day and it was a problem
 
@waxeagle hahaha
 
@JonathonByrd nah, I just don't have a fork or knife. I keep a pocket knife for opening stuff...I had a butter knife but I took it home for some unkown reason. Spoons are easier to clean than forks...
 
@waxeagle I'm fine with generally benevolent, if that is a common belief among christians.
 
3:10 PM
@JonathonByrd but 3/4 walls do have padding in the form of padded cubes :)
@Fabian k. are you familiar with the Edwards sermon "sinners in the hands of an angry God?"
 
@waxeagle No
 
@Fabian great early Puritan literature. Edwards postulated that we are essentially spiders being held over a candle flame by God by nothing more than our web. Or like deer on a mountain crag barely wide enough to stand on. Its rather an interesting sermon.
"Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" is a sermon written by American Christian theologian Jonathan Edwards, preached on July 8, 1741 in Enfield, Connecticut. Like Edwards' other sermons and writings, it combines vivid imagery of Hell with observations of the world and citations of scripture. It remains Edwards' most famous written work, and is widely studied by Christians and historians, providing a glimpse into the theology of the Great Awakening of c. 1730–1755. Doctrine "There is nothing that keeps wicked men at any one moment out of hell, but the mere pleasure of God." Most of the s...
 
@waxeagle Doesn't sound very benevolent to me ;-)
 
@Fabian exactly
 
I love that sermon...
 
3:16 PM
@NathanWheeler Its incredibly powerful. I should really reread it.
 
I have an audio copy
 
@NathanWheeler is it delivered in a complete monotone? Please say yes.
 
@NathanWheeler historical accuracy ftw :)
 
it's not "completely" monotone, but there's VERY little emotion or inflection at all
 
3:24 PM
there are some other renditions on sermonaudio too, but I prefer reading
gotta read that now that so many recommend it
 
@waxeagle yeah, was reading already
 
@dancek :)
 
 
3 hours later…
6:14 PM
hello
 
6:47 PM
@JonathonByrd I'm not sure what happened, I deleted it but then even as OP I couldn't get to it so I think a mod must have really nuked it.
 
@Caleb by your starred quote i presume you've found a way to embed se chat into vim or vim into se chat. please share. i am dying without modal editing
 
@Caleb lol there is no "really" nuking something I don't think...maybe first 5 minutes no record of deletion?
 
@waxeagle Something like that maybe. It doesn't show up in my own question list.
 
@Caleb must be a first 5 minutes thing
 
would you guys object to the question: "how does revelations play out?"
 
6:58 PM
@djeikyb Unfortunately it's not that sweat, it's just a plugin that outsources (all or selected) text areas in my browser to an external edit-server, which can be anything. I use gvim. I have that combined with a user-script for keyboard controls for everything in SE chat, and life is bearable.
 
hey
 
@JonathonByrd Yes :) Zoom way in and ask something very specific.
 
how is everyone?
 
You've got a fish-eye lens attached, it's hard to frame those questions without including something that doesn't belong in the picture. Put a macro lens on work up from there.
Just my personal suggestion of course!
 
@Caleb oh. i'm using chromium's edit with emacs plugin to launch gvim. and vimium to get custom bindings for normal apge operations
@Purmou howdy
 
7:01 PM
@djeikyb Pretty much the same setup, except SE sites are on an exception list for vimium because of the custom key control user scripts.
 
so my mom is, for the first time in my life, forbidding me from being on this site.
 
@JonathonByrd yeah, "how does revlations play out" is begging for argumentation. for example, from people who believe the book of revelation has already been fulfilled
@Purmou why? and i note you're still here
 
@Purmou lol too much time?
> “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.
 
@dancek She said, and I quote, "When you're on that kind of website, people are going to say things and you will start believing them."
@waxeagle Yeah, I'm just coming on to say that this is the situation.
 
@Purmou she is welcome to come read the site, and the meta bout this site not being an evangalism site :)
 
7:04 PM
And I was previously going to design a website for Flimzy, just to start building up some experience and a portfolio.
But she finds him..."fishy."
"He seems to be very interested in you...and probably some other kids."
 
can you have her browse the site with you?
answer questions together?
 
@djeikyb her mind is set.
I don't know.
It upsets me, because she's always trusted me on the internet.
But what she says goes, so I'm going to have to leave.
 
you may not convince her to let you privately browse. but it might be good for her to see how the internet works
 
It's been a pleasure to meet all of you. :)
 
especially with you to guide her
 
7:06 PM
@djeikyb Oh she knows how the internet works. She taught me everything I know.
 
@Purmou Glad you came. Please give your mom our best and tell her she is welcome here any time :).
 
shrug
 
And when @ElendiaStarman comes back online, could someone let him know that the race is off? :P
 
hopefully it works out for you to be back sooner than later
don't let her catch you reading the catholic encyclopedia ; p
unless you're catholic. then the joke sucks
 
nah, i'm orthodox :P
but yeah, again, it's been great to meet you all. you're a great group of people.
hopefully i'll see you guys around, maybe on other SE sites. :)
 
7:09 PM
@Purmou 'preciate it.
 
seeya
 
7:26 PM
@Purmou See you, and as disappointing as this might be remember the commandment to honor your parents even when they are wrong is REALLY important. Unless they want you to sin, abiding by their wishes is one way God wants you to honor Him.
2
 
5
Q: "AD & BC" vs "CE & BCE"

Jim McKeethI personally found the suggestion to replace AD & BC with CE & BCE as the identification of the time before and after the birth of Christ to be offensive and sacrilegious. It is political correctness gone to far. I bristle anytime I hear someone use BCE. I continue to use AD & BC wh...

curious why this is still open, its a rant and not much more
Also because Christ wasn't born in 0 BC CE/BCE is actually more accurate :P
lol couldn't have been born in 0...I don't think there was a 0...but my point stands...
now I'm ranting
 
@waxeagle We're on the same subject here, I was just coming to ask about this:
1
A: What is the generally accepted term for X?

CalebUse BC and AD to refer to dates rather than BCE/CE. Reference main site question: "AD & BC" vs "CE & BCE"

It looks like we may need to do a meta post about why AD/BC is appropriate terminology in the context of this site.
@waxeagle I love the logic.
 
@Caleb honestly we might as well just be progressive and use CE/BCE :)
 
Would "Do children need to be baptized at young age and whats the reason for this) be another of my subjective question?
 
@BeatMe I thought someoen asked that already?
or are you askinga bout infant baptism?
 
7:39 PM
oh, i haven't searched for it
 
@BeatMe Yes, but you could easily fix it by asking what traditions espouse that and why.
 
i thought thats included
 
@BeatMe biblical basis for IB hasn't been asked yet so it would be fair game
 
well thats a easy google search
whats your opinion on it?
 
@BeatMe If what you are asking is an easy google search away, then I say hold off.
 
7:43 PM
@BeatMe I'm a hard line IB'er, it flows from Covenant Theology quite nicely. However if you are a dispensationalist it doesn't work
 
whats your reason for that?
 
@BeatMe I wish I had time to explain. I actually have to leave. Ask me tomorrow or if I am on, later tonight. better yet we can open up a new room for it.
 
sure
 
7:58 PM
@waxeagle I'd like to join you on that. (on the fence right now)
 

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