The Upper Room

Purmou

12:18 AM

hello

sidran32

12:56 AM

Hi. So far, liking this page overall. :)

djeikyb

wow. i've asked as many questions here in two days as in seven months over at askubuntu.com

sidran32

Hah. :P I definitely haven't been this active in SU.

1

A: What is the basis for belief in non-sola-scriptura?

There really isn't a Biblical basis for holding to Sola Scriptura The teachings of the Scripture of the time of Jesus (the Torah) was the only Scripture that they had then. All other teachings, by Jesus and by His disciples, were orally transmitted. The saints of the Church hadn't even started t...

Why might that be downvoted? It got 2. Perhaps there was a bit too much commentary in there? That's all I can see.

djeikyb

and actually, i feel more attached to my answers at AU than here

over at AU, I know when my answer is good or bad or somewhere in between. downvotes on a good answer are a lot more perplexing

but the numerous downvotes i've incurred here, well, everything is so subjective anyway

as much as i strain to be detached

ah. @sidran32, you get downvotes for outright claiming there is no biblical basis for holding to sola scriptura

many a christian will disagree with that

you're claiming your own personal interpretation for the whole of christianity

sidran32

@djeikyb That's what I thought. I was thinking of editing it accordingly but wanted to get someone else's opinion on that. Unfortunately no one responded to my inquiry.

djeikyb

at least, that is why i am inclined to downvote it. which i have not yet done

sidran32

1:06 AM

Well, I'll edit it, then. Since I realize what's wrong. I will admit that I was overtired and hasty when writing it so that's probably why that kind of talk snuck in there :P

Thanks

djeikyb

no prob. fwiw, i agree with your claims. it's just that i have many a friend who heartily disagree

sidran32

Ya

I edited the last paragraph.

And removed the top sentance :P

djeikyb

i think that is better

if you don't mind my asking, what flavour of christianity are you?

sidran32

I'm Catholic. :)

Also wondering how liberally I should preface my answers with that fact.

djeikyb

you don't need an RC disclaimer, but maybe source your claims from the catholic encyclopedia

or explain what tradition your answer comes out of

sidran32

1:11 AM

I have done that with a few of my answers already

I did put a disclaimer in one answer where they specifically asked for a Catholic opinion.

djeikyb

oh, i think i saw that..on the mary thread, no?

sidran32

Yup

djeikyb

i dunno how this site will end up, but my idea at least is that all opinions be sourced to a flavour of christianity rather than a SE user

sidran32

Ya

djeikyb

also, fun to see i guessed your flavour correctly

christian diversity fascinates me

sidran32

1:14 AM

:P

Is it typical for beta pages to not allow you to see upvote/downvote counts by clicking on the number? I recall being able to do that elsewhere but not here.

djeikyb

you don't have enough rep

sidran32

Aha.

djeikyb

you need a thousand, i think

sidran32

That'd be why.

I have over 1000 on SU, so I can, there. Makes sense.

I need to get in the habit of providing answers with references more. :P

djeikyb

heh. yeah. it's not a simple matter of "try it. it works."

sidran32

1:27 AM

Yup :P

djeikyb

i'm super curious about how long this site will last, or if it will actually make it permanently

ChaosGamer ΕΛ-Υ ēel-ū

Of course it will.

djeikyb

i think that's half of why i'm here

just to see

sidran32

Hehe.

I think there's some growing pains, as there have been some troll attempts already. But discussion has been good so far and it's been active enough that I'm optimistic.

djeikyb

i'm a little sad i missed the area 51 part

sidran32

1:30 AM

Me too

djeikyb

always been a little curious about that process

just not enough to commit to it on a subject

sidran32

Ah

djeikyb

until this one. which i missed by a day apparently

oh well

sidran32

Side note: The Vatican needs to hire real web designers. Its website is ugly as sin (excuse my horrible pun >.>)

Brown text on textured lighter brown background @.@

vatican.va/phome_en.htm

djeikyb

1:54 AM

and find a pic of the pope that isn't a dead ringer for emperor palpatine circa original trilogy

site could be worse

sidran32

Ya, he's not very photogenic. :P

Well, I was referencing their online version of the Catechism and it really is a pain to read the text in that color scheme.

djeikyb

oo, you're right. when you get to full page content it's nigh unreadable

sidran32

Yup

djeikyb

readable.tastefulwords.com ftw

sidran32

Nice. :)

mxyzplk

2:42 AM

So... What's the stance on questions that should have been answered by reading the wikipedia article of the same title? Because there's a lot of them, and they're annoying.

djeikyb

i'm wondering that myself..despite being the poster of some of those questions

(how) are we supposed to differentiate the site from wikipedia?

HedgeMage

@mxyzplk Vote to close as not a real question and comment that they are general reference questions if they are that bad.

djeikyb

this site isn't like SO where there is a demonstrable problem->solution

HedgeMage

(though be nice about it, no need to make people feel like we want them to go away if they just don't get it yet)

@djeikyb That's a very good question that you could ask on meta.

mxyzplk

@HedgeMage Alas, no VtC privs here yet

@djeikyb Because SE is interactive, and is about experts answering specific questions, not creating general definitions. I think some of the problem is the lack of specificity - people are not asking actual questions about problems they face. They are asking general "define this, it would entertain me" questions. The SE format begins to fray when it's not real, somewhat knowledgable people asking genuine questions about actual problems they face so that other experts can help them.

HedgeMage

2:51 AM

You guys have 25 people with VtC privs so far -- not bad for this stage of the beta. If you see something really egregious, flag it, else you need to get the community voting the run-of-the-mill garbage into oblivion.

Otherwise what will you do when we aren't babysitting your site 24/7

djeikyb

@HedgeMage @mxyzplk i'm hammering out my meta question

sidran32

I think I agree with @mxyzplk.

HedgeMage

<-- is big on training the community early

El'endia Starman

@HedgeMage That's rather clear and awesome. :D

djeikyb

@HedgeMage i think one reason this SE site interests me, beyond general interest in christianity, is i don't understand how it works in the SE framework. i'm really curious about this

HedgeMage

2:54 AM

@djeikyb How so?

Purmou

So @Hedgemage

We were talking about my doubts question.

sidran32

@djeikyb Well, people may have specific questions or problems regarding particular aspects of Christianity or the Christian churches. As a problem->solution format, there is potential. Although, other SE sites (from what I can gather) have Q&As that involve curiosities, even if it isn't related to an obstacle they are currently facing.

Purmou

And we all agree that it could be reopened with some modifications.

sidran32

So in that framework I think this one will work well.

HedgeMage

(BTW, if I randomly disappear please do not take offense, or assume I was offended... my 8yo just came down with a fever, so if he wakes up again I have to run.)

@Purmou have a link? They all kind of blur together after a week or so...

djeikyb

3:00 AM

@sidran32 how is asking / answering about aspects of christianity and its churches not fall in the category of ignoring / duplicating the efforts of existing reference material?

wax eagle

@HedgeMage sick kiddos is blech. Hope LF feels better soon.

Good grief 400 qs already

Purmou

@waxeagle heh

El'endia Starman

@waxeagle LOL. Why are you surprised? :P

Purmou

@ElendiaStarman You have 4 more rep than I do D:

El'endia Starman

@Purmou LOL. You were actually above me earlier in the day, I think.

Purmou

3:10 AM

Indeed. Above you by quite a lot. :P

wax eagle

@ElendiaStarman Gardening has generated 550 in a couple months :). We would kill for this kind of volume :).

El'endia Starman

@Purmou chuckle This is turning out to be a great race. :P

Purmou

@ElendiaStarman I think it's a race to 1000. You ready? :D

El'endia Starman

@waxeagle Well, I wouldn't think that Gardening is QUITE so contentious, eh? :P

@Purmou Oh, you're on. >:D

wax eagle

@Purmou Good luck catching @ElendiaStarman in votes :)

El'endia Starman

3:11 AM

[starts spamming questions] :P

wax eagle

@ElendiaStarman lol yeah our big meta controversy was whether to allow patio and pest questions

Purmou

@waxeagle you're a gardener, or just a mod?

El'endia Starman

@waxeagle Whaahahat? :P

wax eagle

@Purmou supremely amateur gardener. I grow some veggies for my own use.

djeikyb

0

Q: How is christianity.se different from wikipedia?

TL;DR: Are there objectively answerable questions that aren't covered by standard reference materials? I'm used to other SE sites like Stack Overflow where there is a demonstrable problem with specific solutions. At SO, questions that are answered by standard reference material (ie, man pages, w...

discussion

i think that is what i mean to ask

wax eagle

3:13 AM

@ElendiaStarman lol those were the hard questions we had to answer during our private beta over there :)

Purmou

@waxeagle sweet, i have a huge garden and wanna start planting some veggies and herbs.

djeikyb

but i'm having trouble expressing my thoughts.. maybe i should sleep early tonight : D

wax eagle

@Purmou gardening.stackexchange.com

for all of your questions

we do flowers too

El'endia Starman

@Purmou: No! Don't follow him! That is the easy path and the way to the Dark Side! O.O

Purmou

@ElendiaStarman You leave me alone, rep opponent. :P

El'endia Starman

3:15 AM

@Purmou chuckle :)

Hmmm...I'm considering asking a question concerning the Westboro Baptist Church.

Something like "How does the Bible call us to deal with the [WBC] people?".

wax eagle

@ElendiaStarman I would not use them in the title. You might use them as an example. I would be hesistant to call out a specific group though.

How about "How does the Bible call us to deal with contentious Christians?"

El'endia Starman

@waxeagle Hmmm...good suggestions.

wax eagle

I'm not sure thats actually construcive though....

If the body is well formed I think it can be on topic, but its borderline at best because it verges on sectarian...

El'endia Starman

@waxeagle Okay, I'll think about a way to phrase it in a good way.

wax eagle

ok, heading to bed now. Good night folks

Purmou

3:46 AM

now the westboro baptist church is quite something

they think they're faithful in the eyes of God, yet they're judging everybody else on his behalf.

they prance around, going all "Yeah, you're going to hell."

djeikyb

nothing wrong with judging

it's more that they judge badly

Andrew Vit

4:02 AM

What do they judge badly, do they have some facts wrong? (devil's advocate)

djeikyb

their interpretation of the bible leaves much to be desired

Andrew Vit

It's very literal, right?

djeikyb

i'd say it goes beyond literal

no that isn't right.

they are not literal, because they pick and choose verses and distort the literal meaning

ie, the ever popular leviticus 18:22, which is part of god's revelation to the jewish people

not only do they ignore surrounding verses

but they apply it to non-jews

Amith kk

appears

djeikyb

and worse, leviticus was not just given to a particular people, it was given in a particular time and place

it isn't relevant for christian living today

Andrew Vit

4:10 AM

but every Christian sect does that with different parts, deciding what does & doesn't apply. There will always be arguments, even about the literal meaning.

djeikyb

i'd argue a literal interpretation of jewish law and OT scripture leaves christians bound not to god-prescribed israelite culture, but to the noachide covenant

@AndrewVit oh aye. i fully expect wbc to say i judge badly

@AndrewVit obviously i, here, am deciding what does and does not apply, and deciding what a literal meaning is. but i like to think my logic is more consistant than wbc

which really goes back to my original point. the problem is not judging, but how well you judge

Andrew Vit

Consistency & logic are important.

22

Q: Is Christianity a monotheistic religion?

One of the commandments states "place no other gods before me". Does this mean God is implying the existence of other gods, or why is this explicitly stated? The Biblical universe also includes a varied cast of supernatural characters like Lucifer, Metatron, Archangels, Demons, Seraphim, etc. So...

religion-definition

djeikyb

@Amithkk hiya, btw

Andrew Vit

can we get an objective definition of "deity"?

is it possible?

djeikyb

deity: genderless synonym for god (in the general case)

ninjawords.com/deity,god

why do you ask?

Andrew Vit

4:19 AM

From that definition, I'm not sure what "The essential nature of a god" refers to, but the other parts would apply equally to angels, satan, etc.

Just looking over the answers there, not sure what to make of it.

"these figures are considered non-divine, and certainly subsidiary to God", sure they're subsidiary, but what is "non-divine"

Amith kk

@djeikyb Hwya

djeikyb

@AndrewVit i'm thinking you mean RiverC's answer? christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/1361/…

god is divine

nothing that isn't god is divine

sidran32

@djeikyb Sorry, I was afk. I think it isn't duplicating in that some people may have specific grievances or questions that simply looking up the reference material may not help with.

Andrew Vit

Not specifically but that thread runs through all the responses... the other entities exist, but they're somehow different in nature and God is God.

sidran32

You can look up all the reference material available but it might not address your particular issues because it's presented in a cold manner.

djeikyb

4:33 AM

@AndrewVit i'm not sure what you're asking

Andrew Vit

that's why I'm looking for a clean definition of "deity" or "divine", and how is it different from the broader term "supernatural"?

djeikyb

oh

well if you consider natural beings like us as a class

Andrew Vit

I just don't see how "but this one is special" is a valid argument for calling it monotheism. I'd like to understand HOW is it different.

djeikyb

supernatural beings would be in a separate class

Andrew Vit

yup.

djeikyb

4:36 AM

god would be in an entirely different class

Andrew Vit

ok, getting somewhere...

Flimzy

I think it boils down to this:

God is the Creator of all other beings.

djeikyb

seeing as how god exists, and the others were created

Flimzy

Natural, and supernatural.

djeikyb

at least, that's how i would map it out for christianity

Flimzy

4:38 AM

So one might say the distinguishing difference between the God of Christianity, and supernatural beings of Christianity, is that only God has the ability to create from nothing.

djeikyb

greek mythology is a bit sketchier

Purmou

yo

Flimzy

There are of course other differences as well... but that's enough to draw a distinction between the two classes of beings.

djeikyb

^ three classes of beings: natural, supernatural, divine

Flimzy

@djeikyb Sure...although I mentioned only God and supernatural beings in my comparative statement :)

djeikyb

4:40 AM

unless you were meaning created vs eternally existed

wb @Purmou

Andrew Vit

Is the three classes way of looking at it pretty common among Christians? I mean we just hear about "here", and "in heaven" where saints, Mary, angels, and so on sit at God's side... at least that was my understanding.

sidran32

I'm off for the night. See ya!

djeikyb

night @sidran32

@AndrewVit yeah, i think so

the main point is that god inserts himself amongst his creations

Andrew Vit

dependency injection? (speaking of classes...) :)

djeikyb

and maybe there are other classes, the main bit is that god and his divinity are distinct from the rest by nature

@AndrewVit hehe

Andrew Vit

4:47 AM

Anyway, I'm off for now. Cheers for putting up with me.

djeikyb

haha, no, it was an interesting question

maybe it should have been saved for the stack :D

Flimzy

@AndrewVit I think it's common. If you consider animals, then there are actually 4 classes of beings.

djeikyb

soulless animals for you, eh @Flimzy?

Flimzy

@djeikyb I don't think I said/implied that

But whatever the difference, animals were not created in the image of God, which makes them distinctly different from humans.

djeikyb

colour me interested. describe your fourth class

Flimzy

4:53 AM

I suppose they would still be considered "natural" beings, though

Anyway, human vs. animal vs. angels isn't the question, if I'm not mistaken

it's supernatural vs. God, right?

djeikyb

right

i'm tangenting

Flimzy

hehe

djeikyb

bored and waiting for a phone call ; p

and stumped with a linux / fakeraid question

Flimzy

what's the question?

not sure if I can help... I have more experience with software raid...

djeikyb

oh, trying to get it auto-recognised so i can stick it in fstab

0

Q: How do I automount a fake raid?

Hardware Asus K8N4-E Deluxe Mobo Sil 3114 fake raid, onboard 2 Seagate 250 gb hd, hosting my /home A backup on a separate hard disk of /home What I have so far I've made the raid using the Sil 3114 firmware. I'm using raid level 1. I have a bash script I run as root as soon as I get a prompt...

11.04 raid

Flimzy

4:59 AM

Are you using kernel drivers that shipped with your kernel, or did you have to install a separate fakeraid package? (I don't remember how fakeraid does that)

Purmou

we use ubuntu at school

never could get used to that OS

wow, askubuntu is probably the most different-looking SE site.

djeikyb

@Flimzy i didn't install anything to use it, so I assume i'm using standard kernel drivers

Flimzy

@djeikyb this doesn't answer your question... but why fakeraid instead of software raid? are you dual-booting off the same array or something/

djeikyb

root@daedalus:~# lsmod | grep sil
sata_sil 13542 1
root@daedalus:~# lsmod | grep raid
dm_raid45 77827 0
xor 12890 1 dm_raid45

heh, fakeraid because it's the only way to use four of my sata ports

and i would like to mount it in windows using ext2fsd

Flimzy

Your SATA ports only work in fakeraid mode?

that's very strange

Anyway, if you want to use it in Windows then fakeraid is your only real option

djeikyb

5:03 AM

well, i haven't completely determined that. i have a sneaking suspicion they might. but the disks don't show when the BIOS posts except under the raid bios

Flimzy

If you weren't using Windows, I'd suggest software RAID... as it's often/usually faster than fakeraid (even on the exact same hardware), it's usually more flexible... and it's usually easier

djeikyb

(i have four normal sata ports)

Flimzy

sw raid also makes it easier to move your array to another machine, or upgrade y our SATA controller/motherboard... because you aren't then tied to your specific controller

djeikyb

my sneaking suspicion is that linux might not care what my bios reports. basing this off seeing both disks separately in fdisk -l before dmraid -ay

yeah, i'm reading all this negative stuff about fakeraid after i made the raid1

i'm thinking to break it as long as it doesn't kill the data

@Purmou you more of a windows guy?

Purmou

@djeikyb I'm more of a Mac person myself, actually.

djeikyb

5:07 AM

ah, nifty

i want a mac for the beautiful screen

Purmou

oh yes

osx lion

on a 27 inch screen imac

<3

Flimzy

I have 3 24" monitors

Purmou

...

djeikyb

and now i'm jealous

Purmou

@Flimzy I'd love a screenshot of that resolution

Flimzy

5:08 AM

I wouldn't have room on my desk for 27"

@Purmou: That's actually how I got into photography...

I couldn't find any desktop wall papers big enough

so I resolved to create my own :)

djeikyb

haha

that's awesome

Purmou

wow

that's quite cool

haha

djeikyb

mmkay. so. maybe i should look into software raid. mounting /home to windows isn't crucial

Flimzy

I'm not sure if you can use this link... facebook.com/…

But that's my 3-monitor set up (at my old house)

Purmou

oh my

djeikyb

5:10 AM

the desktop extends onto the laptop, right? virtual kvm? ; D

Flimzy

hehe, no

Purmou

i never understood how to connect multiple monitors

Flimzy

I may have been using synergy at that point, though

Purmou

what screen res do you get on that? :P

Flimzy

1920x1200 on each monitor

djeikyb

5:11 AM

i used synergy all the time when i was working software qa

testing on three or four machines at my desk

Flimzy

so 1920x5760 in all

djeikyb

sweet program

Purmou

so the actual resolution is 5760x1200, you mean

Flimzy

I love it so I can control my media center PC from my laptop :)

Purmou

how do you actually connect multiple monitors?

djeikyb

5:13 AM

all you need is multiple monitor ports

Flimzy

I have two video cards, each with 2 video ports

I have one monitor plugged into each of 3 ports

Purmou

RAM?

Flimzy

then just configure X windows for it

or Windows

djeikyb

RAM is for programs

Flimzy

it's easy to configure in Windows, too

djeikyb

5:14 AM

multiple monitors shouldn't take any resources beyond the graphics card

Purmou

@djeikyb yes, i know it's for programs :P

but it interests me how much RAM he actually has, because he can run a lot of programs on that computer (visually at least)

djeikyb

ohhhh. misunderstood

Flimzy

This system has 6gb

I don't actually run any more programs than I would on a single monitor...

I just don't have to juggle as many windows

Purmou

3

Q: What is prayer?

My question arose while pondering the answers to Praying to people outside the Trinity? Is prayer any form of communication with God? Is it called prayer solely because its communication with God? Or is there a specific form and reverence that is necessary for communication with God to be a pray...

prayer

I don't see why anybody didn't answer this with a bible reference

I found several which talk about what praying actually is

Flimzy

@Purmou then why not answer it yourself?

Purmou

5:24 AM

shh, i am :P

Flimzy

Did you get mortarboard yesterday?

Purmou

yep

Flimzy

woot

Purmou

man

Jesus can form up a speech on the spot

now that's a good public speaker

Purmou

6:10 AM

In [Matthew 6:6](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%206:5-8&version=NIV), Jesus speaks of praying in some detail (emphasis added):

> <sup>**6**</sup> But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and **pray to your Father**, who is unseen. **Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.**

So when you pray, you are to pray to God. Within the scope of Christianity, the definition of "pray" (the most fitting one [from dictionary.com]) is:

> to make earnest petition to (a person).

what do you think, @Flimzy?

I wanted to get some feedback before I posted it

El'endia Starman

G'night peeps! :)

Purmou

night, @ElendiaStarman

Flimzy

@ElendiaStarman must be out of votes for the day

Flimzy

7:09 AM

quiet night

djeikyb

i'm reworking my ID question

dancek

7:41 AM

-1

A: In which year was Christ born?

It is not known or clear when Jesus was born - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_Jesus#Year_of_birth December 25th derives from pagan traditions - http://www.religioustolerance.org/xmas_sel.htm

Flagged that not an answer, flag was disputed, commented.

djeikyb

lol. the question is explicitly about the year, not the day

@dancek how was the flag disputed?

Flimzy

the first article he links to is about the day

er

the year

Even so, links are not answers

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