@SecretAgentMan It technically is, but if it is reported it should only get a tp feedback (not a tpu), as it's the user's first offense and they have other legitimate content. It could be argued that it should be reported to Smokey so that we have a record in case the user does it again, but I'd say "meh". Since you have edit powers you could just edit in disclosure, but it's a NAA anyway so in this case I wouldn't bother
Hm
Though looking at the post revisions, I see that this link was edited in to an originally not-NAA post
@SecretAgentMan I would say mod flag and explain. Then the mod can rollback to the original post or delete as spam if they've seen a similar pattern before. Smokey doesn't have a record of that site
@SecretAgentMan In this case I don't believe this Smokey report is tp. Both the projects linked have been around for a while, there's no link of affiliation, and the post isn't really that promotional.
@SmokeDetector I think this is fp. Both the projects linked have been around for a while, there's no link of affiliation, and the post isn't really that promotional. The user has other valid posts. The post is borderline NAA, but I think it's barely above that line
> @Mithrandir when you have feedback from mods, Charcoal, SOCVR let us know, if mods are willing to strike, I can't see why we should not... but I can't immagine yet how you are supposed to convince them – Petter Friberg 2 days ago
@Mithical Yeah, I knew about that, but I wouldn't call that a final decision. I'd say once mod feedback has come in you should let him know so he can give his answer then
Stack Inc. doesn't care about the rest of the network. What the point of the strike is, is to get the non-power users to start complaining about it on SO, and show corp what happens without the power users. Stack Overflow is the only site large enough to generate actual bad press over a week.
Let me rephrase. It's not that they don't care about the network, per se, but they do not have the same recognition and brand as SO does. It's not worth disabling Smokey network wide, potentially killing off some of the smaller sites without active mods (biiit of a mod shortage on the network right now) for the bad press about SE; in my opinion it is the Stack Overflow brand that has to be at risk of besmirching for corp to take notice.
I said this in the SOCVR room meeting about it yesterday and it bears repeating here: Charcoal is the biggest fish in this pond. If SD shuts down, there will be pain. A partial shutdown won't do enough, IMO
1. I support participating in an SO-only strike. It's technically trivial for us.
2. I can't in good faith support a full shutdown of everything
For two reasons - (1) I don't think it'd make that much of a difference, and (2) I feel like it's important to maintain some flow here, to keep the wheels greased and people engaged.
in my modest opinion it should be "tudo ou nada" = all or nothing. Here in Portugal, a lot of strikes are called on, but then people sit and talk it out, because strikes consequences would be too devastating.
@Vickel If they can sufficiently convince us that "later" will actually happen, and have taken actual action, not just words, on the other concerns, fine; we still have the option of striking later if nothing happens. If they address, say, two concerns, then those get removed from the list and the strike still happens about the other concerns.
I think that's a bit of a play-by-ear thing, though, or "we'll cross that bridge when we come to it". I don't think they'll manage to address the concerns sufficiently before we start. If they do... that'll be a welcome surprise.
I had been hoping to meet with a staff member yesterday in person, and possibly discuss some stuff, but unfortunately that didn't work out, thanks to the Israeli military...
In any case, still no pressure for a definitive answer from anybody at the moment, but I am hoping to get things moving a bit so we can work out the next steps.
@Undo We would also need to disable reporting SO posts to MS, or just disable scanning on SO. If we still reported to MS, then people would just go to MS and handle reports from there.
@Mithical Yes, but that takes more effort and doesn't involve the existing infrastructure. They would also need to get anyone else moved over to it, rather than going somewhere they already know.
@Mithical well we are 10 days out so every time someone brings up "Please speak up" they're pressing for a definitive answer
JUST SAYING
also apologies if I seem stressed and pissy, I've had a shitty past week (NOT just with the Charcoal Metasmoke / ISP at home outages but in general), so I'm running at 20000000000000 RPMs for too long a time period
Well, I pinged Andy in Discord asking if the discussion we had in Discord and the comments I left on his answer sufficiently addressed his concerns, and if so whether or not I could mark down on my list that Charcoal was in. I guess that was interpreted as being asked for a definitive answer :)
@ThomasWard I just assume you're always hopped up on Infinite Chaos Energy juice.
@ThomasWard Yeah, that is. It usually means it's time to take at least a short break, even if for only a few hours of real rest away from similar issues.
@ThomasWard what if I told you that I have that viewpoint as well, and it's based on things that staff members have told me directly
@Mithical (cc @Undo) I'm in support, after thinking about it. I agree with what Undo was saying - SO-only is good, I'd find it hard to support a network wide strike.
@ThomasWard Good. It sounds like it would be a good idea to take some time that's just for things you like to do which are something other than your normal tasks. What that is, will depend on your interests.
@Mithical It looks like we're in for SO only. Though, I still have the reservations I raised about messaging and scope. I hope that can be cleaned up before something is announced to the entire community
@Undo I understand wanting to have that data. However, if we include it with the general data collected by MS, then we will forever need to be removing it when doing any future comparisons similar to those where we've previously used TTD data (e.g. to compare 3, 4, and 5 autoflags), or even just TP/FP (i.e. people will still need to review the posts). IMO, it's good to have the data. I was expecting we'd to need to write some way to keep SD report info.
However, having it mixed in with the existing MS data seems like it will result in ongoing headaches to account for it or potentially erroneous analysis if we fail to remember to account for it, forever.
@Makyen Well... even if we collect it on MS, we could later remove it... but, the natural inclination will be to leave it in and just assume we'd deal with it later.
@SmokeDetector @ByteCommander You and I are the ones that autoflagged this. You may want to take a look and decide for yourself if you want to have spam-flagged this.
@Makyen Don't think so. NAA feedback won't remove a user from the blacklist, so it makes sense that it's not counted in with the fp. I agree that it probably should notify the autoflaggers
I've seen it. I'm now vaguely remembering having to do what I just did (i.e. briefly give FP feedback; have the notifications posted; then change to NAA).
@Das_Geek Those are handled in separate areas of the code. The user blacklist is entirely in SD. The autoflagged FP notice is generated in MS and then just forwarded through SD.
@EliahKagan That pattern looks like it's already caught by Bad ns for domain in body and Bad ns for domain in answer; append -force if you really want to do that.
@EliahKagan That pattern looks like it's already caught by Potentially bad keyword in body and Potentially bad keyword in answer; append -force if you really want to do that.
