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2:13 PM
[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword in answer: Filename length in Windows by Riona on superuser.com
 
@SmokeDetector k
 
Grabs flags
Nice smokey avatar
 
@Randal'Thor Someone in SOCVR had a birthday, everyone changed their pictures to squirrels
 
You're all nutty
 
@Undo It doesn't show up in the mini version next to your name though.
Most of that pic is just a grey square.
 
2:16 PM
shrug
 
So... have I fixed the reports with deleted OPs? Let's find out.
\o/
 
[ SmokeDetector ] Pattern-matching website in answer: Physically Identify the failed hard drive by Sergei Serj on serverfault.com
 
@soup Did you finally do it?
 
Yes, it worked as expected.
@SmokeDetector k
 
2:33 PM
Hmm, question time @Undo: a few months later, should we really keep the lists of feedback per user pages open to everyone? Seems like it's increased the gamification aspect, which really isn't what we want...
 
!!doubleflip/gamification
 
@hichris123 On the third hand, that gamification is getting people trying to reduce their % invalid, which isn't a bad thing.
 
uoᴉʇɐɔᴉɟᴉɯɐƃ︵╰(゜益゜)╯︵ ƃɐɯᴉɟᴉɔɐʇᴉou
 
shrug I can see either side.
 
I never got the gamification feeling with the per user feedback pages, but I can see why some would get it, I am neutral in this vote
 
2:36 PM
2 messages moved from The Periodic Table
 
@ArtOfCode Is it? Perhaps showing them what has been invalidated would be good, but adding numbers to the top makes people go "how do I increase that number?"
 
@hichris123 or, in the case of invalid %, decrease it.
But is people trying to decrease the number a bad thing?
 
Well, the only way you can do that is by providing more feedback... and as we've already established, piling on is a bit annoying.
2
 
@hichris123 Seems like there should be a way to discourage piling on
 
HC K
 
2:39 PM
@hichris123 Can't you just hide the numbers, and only show the percents for the normal users? Of couse users can see the number if they calculate the amount of pages they have, but it removes the easy way to see it
 
(also, shouldn't everyone's intention be to be accurate all of the time, and admit mistakes if they happen?)
 
@Undo Note that piling up isn't always deliberate.
 
@ArtOfCode Yes if it's done by giving redundant feedback in clear-cut cases
 
@TIPS right
 
@soup yep, that's sane
 
2:39 PM
@Ferrybig Yeah, I think that might be a good idea...
 
Everything, from a slow internet to a faster @Ferry can cause piling up.
Solution: Suspend @Ferry and make the world's internet faster
 
What if we ignored any feedback that's posted more than 1 minute after the first feedback of the same type?
 
What would happen if we just ignored identical feedback from the same room posting >x seconds apart?
... ninja'd :(
 
This is a social problem. Solving it technically is... skirting the problem.
 
Why?
 
2:41 PM
I don't think it is. Users learn - quickly I assume - that providing feedback minutes later is useless so they stop doing it
 
@ArtOfCode That is more system limiting things than people education, and remember tavern
 
If we can use technology to remove the incentive that causes the social problem... we fix the root cause.
@Ferrybig track rooms. We can do that.
 
Why can't we do both?
 
@Undo You're literally adding complexity to a system instead of saying "please don't".
 
If we are actively ignoring feedback, Smokey can also provide feedback on why it was ignored. Thus educating users on what to do
 
2:43 PM
Ignore feedback more than x seconds after the first of the same type from the same room. At the same time, make it clear to people that this is why we're doing it.
 
"please don't" doesn't work.
 
@hichris123 We've said "please don't" before
 
See the pinned message here and then scroll back through the past three weeks of transcripts.
 
@Andy aye, we've actually seen that happen. @hichris123 posted a message saying please don't a few days ago - it's still happening.
 
Ping @rene on this because feedback piling-on is mostly an SOCVR problem (if it's a problem at all)
 
2:43 PM
@ArtOfCode Yeah, how often? Like a time/day. That's not bad.
 
@ArtOfCode I'm agreeing with you :)
 
@Andy I'm agreeing with your agreement with me.
 
@hichris123 Should be able to get data on this. Just a sec.
 
Yeah...well...ok then.
 
@hichris123 I've seen it quite a number of times in the past few days, actually.
 
If we don't this kind of late feedback, we should really put this in the wiki too
 
So we can solve this technically or socially, or both. Why not both?
 
In this particular instance, I think a technical solution will lead to the social change.
 
Because this is metasmoke. We're not trying to build a mini-SE where there's all sorts of rules and order and a bureaucracy. If something is wrong, we can say "Hey, look, that's a problem."
 
@ArtOfCode Will the system prevent us from correcting our feedback if the technical code is added?
 
2:47 PM
[ SmokeDetector ] Repeating characters in answer: Where do the bodies of the dead Tributes go? by Plopped on scifi.stackexchange.com
 
@Ferrybig Why would it?
 
@hichris123 but when that doesn't work, why can't we use our system to make it happen?
 
@SmokeDetector naa-
 
@Ferrybig how do you mean?
We've got the devs, we've got the smarts, in fact most of the system we'd need to do this is already in place.
 
Someone might see the problem only after a minute, after someone else pointed it out and also send that feedback type, but metasmoke will ignore the new feedback then because there was already an feedback type of that kind
 
2:48 PM
@ArtOfCode Why does it need a solution? We're literally talking about a very nitpicky problem, it's not that big of a deal. We don't need to code a feature for that.
 
trying to pull stats to see how big a problem this actually is
 
(also, whatever happened to discussing just removing those numbers :))
 
@SmokeDetector f this is what the question asks for
 
@hichris123 it evolved :)
@Ferrybig yeah, pretty much. That's not a problem, though, you don't need to correct your feedback if someone else has already sent the correct type.
@hichris123 If we were able to say to people "plz don't" and it worked, I'd agree with you totally. But we can't - your message from a few days back demonstrates that.
2 days ago, by hichris123
Anyway, yeah, just try not to submit duplicate feedback. Obviously, if it's a FGITW problem, that's okay -- but if you're submitting feedback minutes after another person... why? That makes no sense.
7 stars, probably most people have seen it, yet we still have duped feedback.
 
@ArtOfCode Did you check rooms when looking at the duped feedback?
 
2:51 PM
^
 
@Ferrybig I'm talking one room, in here
Not taken from metasmoke; I watched it happen here
 
In the transcript, this doesn't happen much. And when it does, there's usually a good reason.
Like @Quill submitting feedback for CR. It's one feedback, it's one post, it's for a site he's a regular on. That's fine with me.
 
Overall, 7816 posts have >= 2 feedback
259 in the last week
 
But you have to separate out by room...
 
we can't do that
Don't have the data for it
 
2:54 PM
The Tavern usually has feedback on non-deleted posts, the SOCVR always submits feedback.
@Undo :( But those numbers don't give a good picture.
 
just a sec, I kinda question these numbers
Saying that 35/107 posts in the last day have >= 2 feedbacks
 
if we make a mapping from user id to room id, we probably could do it, but duplicate user id's would kill this
 
35/107 posts are probably on SO. :P
 
@Ferrybig yeah that'd be ugly fast
I just need to send room IDs to metasmoke; wouldn't be hard
 
[metasmoke][bug][low priority] Sites in the combo box at search are double-encoded, "Linux & unix" shows as "Linux & unix" in browser
 
2:57 PM
2 feedbacks in 7 seconds, 2 in 12 seconds, and 3 in 17 seconds within the last 8 hours.
 
@hichris123 15 of them in the last day are
 
> Obviously, if it's a FGITW problem, that's okay
:)
 
@ArtOfCode That's to be expected. That's certainly within a network hiccup blip. What about things over a minute or more?
 
@Andy I've seen a few.
 
that's a little harder to query
 
2:58 PM
@Ferrybig Display bug is the worst bug
 
But... 12 seconds? That's a network blip, but is it a network blip that keeps happening several times a day?
I doubt that.
 
@Ferrybig Yeah, that one has been there a while but I don't know rails enough to fix it. :P Also since that data lives in the database...
 
@ArtOfCode eh, we're dealing with worse than first-world networks here
 
@ArtOfCode Is it the same user(s)?
 
@Andy in some cases, yes
 
2:59 PM
@Ferrybig that sounds more fun. Ima go fix that.
 
@ArtOfCode Let's whack those users with a stick then and tell them to knock it off
2
 
Fair. Hang on, let me go find my whacking stick.
 
(I'm still not opposed to the technical solution though)
 
@Andy That's... a little strong for a peanut issue. :)
 
Maybe the best solution would be to merge technical and social:
don't ignore any feedback automatically
 
3:01 PM
@hichris123 We could shoot peanuts at them.
 
22 mins ago, by Ferrybig
@hichris123 Can't you just hide the numbers, and only show the percents for the normal users? Of couse users can see the number if they calculate the amount of pages they have, but it removes the easy way to see it
@Undo ^
 
We could. Feels hackish
 
@hichris123 so what does this get us?
 
But as soon as we get identical feedback from the same room more that x seconds apart, where x is fairly generous, have Smokey post a "hey that doesn't help" message in the room
 
@ArtOfCode So you don't focus on a number?
 
3:02 PM
@hichris123 If you're leaving the % in, people are just going to focus on that
@Undo would agree with this
 
@ArtOfCode ref: flag weight
 
We've already got the websocket to do it with
 
cough Accept rate cough
'cuse me
 
@Undo Eh. I still think we're making a mountain out of a molehill. This isn't that big of an issue.
@ArtOfCode True. Then... remove everything?
 
@Andy Those who didn't get good marks in history are doomed to repeat it.
 
3:03 PM
@hichris123 Tend to agree with you there
 
@hichris123 Yeah, show us a blank page.
Like the beginning of the books.
 
@hichris123 I wouldn't be massively sad about that, as long as it's still available to admins.
I could certainly get behind showing people the feedback they've had invalidated.
2
 
@ArtOfCode how?
Now you're dealing with linking chat and MS accounts
Or just change that page to only show invalidated feedback and stay public
 
@Undo nah, just the same page as we've already got (/admin/user_feedback) but only show invalidated feedback without numbers.
 
That'd work
 
3:05 PM
Quick aside: When are we silencing Smokey in the Tavern?
 
@Andy It's on a timer; stuff only gets posted there if it doesn't get deleted within x minutes and is marked tp
 
@Andy Oh right. Noon?
 
Possibly other magic in there too
 
@Undo he meant for Town Hall
 
(sorry, 11 for you)
 
3:06 PM
oh yeah
I'm an idiot and almost forgot about that :P
 
Oh carp, that's today
 
1pm EDT?
 
@hichris123 I thought it was noon for me
I PLANNED MY WHOLE LUNCH AROUND IT BEING AT NOON!
 
I'd go with silencing it an hour or so before the start.
It's something stupid like 20:00 for me
 
It's in two hours. The counter thing on the sidebar is borken
 
3:07 PM
oh. good. lunch is saved.
 
17:00 UTC
 
@Andy I was talking about when to quiet the bot. :P
 
@hichris123 An hour or so would probably be fine
It's not like this is spammy hour.
We could silence it now if we wanted to
 
Oh, so something stupid like 18:00
@Undo go with an hour before
 
@Ferrybig fixed
 
3:22 PM
[ SmokeDetector ] Pattern-matching website in answer: Help with dual booting Windows 8.1 Professional and Ubuntu 13.10 by Naveed Butt on askubuntu.com
 
That username sounds familiar ...
 
@SmokeDetector why
 
@Ferrybig Body - Position 150-165: //cheaprodut.co
 
@Randal'Thor Were you being sarcastic? If not, it has only tp on it.
 
@WaiHaLee Not sarcastic. Apparently they've come up a few times in here.
 
3:34 PM
Yeah, that does appear to be the case.
Seems to be a high degree of correlation between the username and //cheaprodut.co.
name vs website. Appears to be many different accounts with the same name.
 
[ SmokeDetector ] Blacklisted website in answer, blacklisted user: give a website project idea for final year project that is difficult and new to do by fakharnawaz on stackoverflow.com
 
 
1 hour later…
4:45 PM
!!/block 5400 89
 
Reports blocked for 5400 seconds in room 89.
@Undo Reports blocked for 5400 seconds in room 89.
 
@SmokeDetector notspam
 
5:31 PM
@QPaysTaxes We just kinda assume that the ones Smokey is in will be unique cross-domain
 
Restart: API quota is 3301.
 
Does... blocking persist through restarts?
!!/block 5400 89
 
Reports blocked for 5400 seconds in room 89.
@hichris123 Reports blocked for 5400 seconds in room 89.
 
Eh, that's the simple solution.
 
[ SmokeDetector ] Offensive answer detected: Autolack - Metallic oder auch nicht by StringForever on german.stackexchange.com
 
5:39 PM
@QPaysTaxes thought I saw a bug, could probably be a bug, but unsure if its the intention
 
It is a bug, you kinda found it. :P
 
@SmokeDetector k
 
It's the return + send_message.
Actually, nevermind... @Ferrybig you think of everything.
Since I assume the intention is to a) send a message to whomever posted that, and b) send a message to here to show reports were blocked.
 
Just check if the room is CHQ; don't send the non-pinging one if it is
 
52
Q: What is the difference between "nevermind" and "never mind"?

user362I never remember the appropriate use of either of nevermind and never mind. What's the difference and how can I remember?

@Undo Yeah, that works.
 
 
1 hour later…
@SmokeDetector Weird first comment.
 
weird post
 
Yay!
@QPaysTaxes 'cause the icons are so similar. :P
Hullo a dumb. I'm dad MAR.
 
7:09 PM
[ SmokeDetector ] Link at end of answer: How to remove the "Facebook social plugin" text? by Agil Mantali on stackoverflow.com
 
@SmokeDetector k
 
7:31 PM
Backoff received of 10 seconds on request to questions?site=stackoverflow
 
7:57 PM
[ SmokeDetector ] Link at end of answer: How are "security levels" of identities in TeamSpeak 3 implemented? by Eve Gibbons on security.stackexchange.com
 
@SmokeDetector tpu- changed my life too
 
@SmokeDetector k
 
^example of FGITW
 
And I'm the fastest. :D
 
@hichris123 But can you be this fast?
SD K
 
8:05 PM
[ SmokeDetector ] Link at end of answer, blacklisted user: Why Say IP Addresses Are Harmless? by Eve Gibbons on security.stackexchange.com
 
sd k
 
@SmokeDetector k
 
JAL
8:47 PM
Is http://www.file-utilities.com known spam? reference
 
@JAL Not known in metasmoke
 
JAL
ok
 
9:31 PM
[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword with email in answer: Is it possible to embed 3D data into XSL-FO? by Jordan_TechSoft 3D on stackoverflow.com
 
9:41 PM
[ SmokeDetector ] Link at end of answer: PHP-based ad server (alternative to OpenX) by ptoone on webmasters.stackexchange.com
API quota rolled over with 1790 requests remaining. Current quota: 9999.
stackoverflow: 1527
askubuntu: 574
superuser: 497
unix: 226
drupal: 221
electronics: 150
sharepoint: 144
math: 142
gaming: 137
security: 134
salesforce: 133
english: 132
gis: 132
mathematica: 127
travel: 126
academia: 125
magento: 107
dba: 104
mathoverflow.net: 94
programmers: 94
scifi: 91
apple: 91
wordpress: 88
physics: 84
puzzling: 83
worldbuilding: 81
emacs: 74
tex: 73
ell: 73
workplace: 71
movies: 71
money: 68
raspberrypi: 65
webapps: 63
stats: 58
ru.stackoverflow: 57
meta: 54
gamedev: 52
es.stackoverflow: 52
 
10:13 PM
[ SmokeDetector ] Offensive body detected, offensive title detected: I need to a stack flower to fuck the israel in C++ by fuck-Israel on stackoverflow.com
1. [:30547980] <skipped>
2. [:30547417] That message is not a report.
1. [:30548141] <skipped>
2. [:30547980] <skipped>
3. [:30547417] That message is not a report.
 
 
1 hour later…
11:39 PM
Restart: API quota is 9528.
 
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