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12:01 AM
@HellSaint I must say though, I quite like your idea of a points-based philosophy for protection. It's a neat idea.
 
@Rubiksmoose it's an RPG community after all :P
although the actual threshold on the points is completely subjective haha
 
Also I hope you didn't think I was poo-pooing your answer. I'm still actively thinking about everything but I think yours was a well-considered take. My comments were more on the minor side of disagreement about that one point is all.
 
12:46 AM
Can anyone see why the first "cell" in this answer's table is displaying in italics?
 
How does the S.E. feel about "how to build" questions?
 
wakes up
@Thatguy that sounds on the surface to be very opinion based
 
@Thatguy how to build what?
If it's "gandalf in D&D" that's probably POB, if it's "I want to achieve these mechanical goals and constraints" that's a fair build question. If it's a computer or a house you got the wrong stack
 
@Thatguy Optimization problems are ok, asking to make a build that fits X fictional character or archetype is not.
 
1:01 AM
@nitsua60 What the ... It didn't reproduce in a blank answer 0_0
 
If you can imagine there being "1 best objective answer", then it's probably ok.
 
@doppelgreener I know somewhere KRyan has expressed that char-gen questions should either be very broad/vague or very defined. And it's the in-betweens that can't be answered ... I should really go find wherever that was said since I had never thought about it before
 
41
A: Character build for Gandalf in D&D3.5?

BESWBuild him by feel SevenSidedDie has an excellent answer about why there's no definitive Gandalf build, but I think we can talk constructively about how to go creating a Gandalf build. You want to "recreate Gandalf from the books" "in D&D3.5 terms." You can't, not precisely. D&D isn't a good fit...

 
@gszavae There are questions of that sort that I've seen stay open...
 
@Medix2 Yup, but that's just how it is isn't it? There are no real rules.
 
1:04 AM
@doppelgreener Gandalf in D&D? Easy. DMPC. <claps hands, walks away>
 
@doppelgreener "which skills do I use to build a pc in Chronicles of Darkness?"
 
I was hoping for something along the lines of Guts from berserk. But yeah thats why i asked as i thought it would be POB
 
@Thatguy good intuition there, thanks for asking here first
 
I think "how to build" is a much more Stackable question if it's asking for principles and practices rather than a stat block.
 
@Thatguy reddit would be a better fit for a question like that
 
1:08 AM
that makes sense. Thanks for the input peoples!!
 
@Thatguy That can totally work, it'd just be best if you have examples of things Guts can do; things you'd want your character to be able to do
I'm not sure if there's really a way to be a tactical Barbarian (how I'd probably try to approximate Guts) but perhaps
 
@BESW That sounds too open-ended and subjective, it's hard to imagine a question like that would be answerable at all, sounds like answer-bait.
 
@gszavae Whereas I agree with BESW, the world is complicated, but I've gotta eat dinner
 
I'll ask reddit in a few days. Thanks!!
 
1:43 AM
@BESW that's going to be very difficult to write
 
@Medix2 all good, enjoy dinner.
 
does anyone have an early printing of curse of strahd handy?
 
Could grab it from the office tomorrow, but don't have it here, sorry. Ping me if you're still looking to check that grapple-damage tomorrow midday.
 
Thanks, Im trying to figure out where the mixed up description came from.
hmmm my printing doesnt include stats for the wolf form of Strahd.
 
@AncientSwordRage It's basically the same concept as describing the problem rather than asking about a specific solution you've come up with.
You give as much detail about the situation as you can and trust the crowdmind to provide useful to solutions.
 
2:04 AM
@nitsua60 If your copy of CoS is different I’d like a picture to add to my answer.
If that’s cool with you.
 
@BESW Yes, but it then becomes a question of which parts are easy to describe, which are important, how to express why it's important etc.
 
Good questions are hard to write.
5
 
I find when I try to write those questions I end up asking several questions
 
It's a lot easier to write a good answer.
(cf: Pearls Not Sand is a heap of h*ck.)
 
@BESW After refreshing my memory, yes it is
 
2:15 AM
@ThomasMarkov I'll check it tomorrow, as long as the three-hour break between two professional development sessions is actually a break, not a three-hour work period I just don't know about yet!
 
 
1 hour later…
Ben
3:30 AM
Afternoon all
 
@Ben Afternoon
 
Ben
How's it going?
 
Alright. Yourself?
 
Ben
Been busy - got barely any time to myself these days lol.
Also went to the dentist yesterday. Need two fillings
 
3:55 AM
@Ben I have become bored, the destroyer of productive free time.
 
Ben
@MikeQ I could offer topics to ponder?
 
@Ben wow, it’s only afternoon for you? It’s late evening here... so I guess I’ll just say “Good singular-rotation-of-the-earth!”
 
Ben
@BardicWizard I'm in Australia :)
 
@BardicWizard 2pm to be precise
 
4:33 AM
6
Q: Can you combine Polearm Master, Tunnel Fighter, and Warcaster (with Repelling Blast)?

K.L.R.We have a player who is playing a Fighter with a level of Warlock, wielding a polearm, and they say they should be able to get the initial opportunity attack from Polearm Master when a foe enters their reach, then if the foe continues to move in they proc the Tunnel Fighter opportunity attack, wh...

 
4:49 AM
If there's anyone running a Golden Sky Stories table online sometime in the near future, would it be possible if I could take a backseat and spectate? I'm thinking about giving it a try and would like to see how it's played.
 
5:18 AM
@linksassin lucky! I wish it was earlier so I wouldn’t have to speed read the book club book for tomorrow (it’s about a thousand pages and I totally forgot about it until about 23.5 minutes ago)
 
@BardicWizard I'm sure a flight to australia will give you time to read it. That's how time works right?
 
@Yuuki A while ago, @trogdor ran some good GSS games for us
 
ah
 
I tried to run a session but I didn't do it properly. Too many social nuances.
 
I could run a game of it but I don't have any current plans to
 
5:22 AM
GSS is how I knew Troggy would make an excellent Goblin Mom.
 
lol
 
@linksassin I wish...
 
@BESW you embarrass me with praise
 
@BESW what’s gss?
 
Golden Sky Stories, the game they're talking about.
 
5:23 AM
Thanks
 
Ben
@BardicWizard If it's any consolation, I can assure you that the world hasn't ended yet. I like to keep people updated.
 
@Ben ha
 
Ben
When it happens, since we're in the future, I wanna make sure people get a heads up
 
@BardicWizard That's true. We are actually ahead of your so technically if you were here book club was last night.
 
They also experience time in reverse, due to the coriolis effect
 
5:26 AM
Okay this is officially Over My Head(TM)
 
Don't worry, it's time travel so you will have gotten it already last week by next month.
 
I unfortunately am not (YET) an employee of the Starfleet Department of Temporal Investigations
So I really don’t think I will...
 
Which means you already have will been.
 
anyway, if I had a group who wanted to play it, I could totally run a game of GSS
 
Ben
@MikeQ Science words!
 
5:29 AM
and if they were fine with you sitting in to listen to the game I would have no objections myself
 
I give up, heading to bed. Good point-in-the-current-24-hour-period-comprising-one-rotation-of-Sol III-around-the-magnetic-axis, everyone.
 
I'm very happy to run GSS games, especially to try to show the game to more people who have not played it before
 
@Yuuki There are also some GSS live plays on youtube, if that helps
 
Ben
5:49 AM
@BardicWizard Guten[tag]!
 
Having multiple points of reference can help understand how the system can be used and what styles of play may be desirable
 
 
1 hour later…
 
3 hours later…
9:42 AM
@Medix2 there is this one!
37
A: Are character build or optimization questions on topic?

wax eagleA good charop question is either very specific or very general. If you fall in between you've entered the no mans land of gimmie the codez. There are 3 types of char-op questions that fall into the "good" category in my mind: I'm 90% complete and I need help making the final selection or two. ...

 
10:19 AM
@doppelgreener did you ever find a word for using background noise to help focus on a main task?
 
huh
I never thought of there ever being a word for that and I do it all the time
 
10:34 AM
@AncientSwordRage yep, it was stimming after all
stimming has its own implications for behaviour for the autism spectrum, but it's not exclusive to the autism spectrum
 
oh
ok I know that word but like
it has meant an entirely different thing
well ok not entirely different
but a different thing in that it didn't mean that specifically
fair enough
 
@doppelgreener ah, we @BESW was right. TIL.
 
yeah. as a basis, it means activities (usually repetitive) which we do for self-stimulation. for normies, that can often mean things like clearing their throat, drumming their fingers on the table, clicking their pen, bouncing one's leg, etc. for someone on the autism spectrum it gets more associated with its own set of things like hand flaps. ADHD needs it also, it helps as an attention sink.
(because if we weren't distracted with that thing, we'd be even more distracted with something else entirely)
 
yeah I know some people in the Autism Spectrum, such as myself, like touching or tugging on something, certain fabrics are very stimulating, I actually kinda like certain metals
especially if they get cold
in fact,... almost anything that's cold is instantly stimmable to me
I can't really explain why, it's just a thing
XD
not frozen though, just cold
frozen things suck to touch, as I'm sure most people won't disagree with me on
 
10:56 AM
@doppelgreener attention sink is a good phrase
 
it is!
if i'm gonna have my brain completely forget what i'm doing and instead pay attention to something else several times a minute, it might as well be a TV show that's right there, which won't have me move away and will make me notice "oh yeah, work"
and in general this stuff helps it not do that to begin with
 
11:09 AM
I wish I could do more of that kind of thing at work but they don't really like that kind of thing XD
they see it as all distraction and not as the kind of focusing agent it can be
 
i mean. it's definitely also both
but if i'm going to be distracted anyway, it's a means of managing that distraction
 
yes
I'm not saying it would never distract me
but sometimes I'm stuck being distracted or bored and can't manage to work for some part of the day
in those cases it would actually help
 
11:27 AM
that being said, I have some co-workers who used internet privileges to do decidedly un-work related things all day and were at times barely productive at all and didn't even try to hide it
I am somewhat sympathetic to the attitude taken after that to reduce that kind of activity
 
12:13 PM
@NautArch Oh dear. What happened?
 
@kviiri Lack of interest from a lot of them. I think a lot of potential discomfort for the narrative bit and that they'd prefer to try it in person.
Two are still interested, so I may try something with them.
 
@NautArch :( too bad
Oh which reminds me
Some news from one of the other players coming in to the back room
 
12:27 PM
@ThomasMarkov Yeah, it's a tricky one. But if you're going to suggest that they might still be a different creature it probably needs support. Otherwise, it simply is another creature.
I'm not actually sure there is much of a case for "it's still your old buddy".
And basing the methods off an answer that also required DM adjudication is tricky.
 
When a question is closed literally seconds before you submit an answer XD
 
Haven't seen anyone else bring this up here:
Not sure how interested I am in Pathfinder but the rules might be worth a read for $5.
Also the charities seem good.
 
12:43 PM
@NautArch Ive reaarranged the answer a bit, check it to see if youre satisfied
 
@Medix2 doesn't it still let you submit?
@ThomasMarkov like a snickers
 
@NautArch Perhaps seconds was closer to two minutes. I got the "this is not accepting answers" literally (actual literally) seconds before hitting submit
 
@Medix2 weird, if you had the answer started and open, it usually let's you submit i thought. oh wells.
 
@NautArch Yeah same, but I guess there's some time after which it doesn't which is... [does math] at most 55 seconds
 
But I'm not sure I agree with szega that it's defined enough. As with most list questions, it's more of a "hey, I see there's something here. Can someone go and find all the examples I'm asking about for me?"
 
12:49 PM
@NautArch I only found twelve things and most of them probably don't even count
 
@Medix2 It may be minimal, but it's a lot of legwork to prove/disprove that OP could do. They just want someone else to do it.
I think I may work on a meta to see if we can make list questions off-topic.
 
@NautArch Yeah and that's not close-worthy at all to me. Especially when some people don't have ctrl-f as an option; other people will literally be better at finding other examples. I do believe that it would've been nice if the OP had done more research trying to find more examples and said they did that
 
@Medix2 I think it may help to bound the list by a condition and not ALL conditions and ALL things that may interact, to be honest.
For me, it's just a downvote, but if it reopens, I may reconsider.
Yeah, it's very much a "oh, i just saw one thing, can someone go and find all the others (if they exist)?"
 
@NautArch Yeah and I don't think that's close-worthy XD
I'll go grab examples... like this
 
And that's what great about the stack, we can all vote our conscience!
Heh, I think for Tomb of Horrors I'm going to give players Carte Blanche in character creation on picking their own magic items. Probably a very rare, a rare, and 2 uncommons. or something.
 
12:54 PM
Some quick examples (I think), I found them since these are ones I have answered: this, this, this
 
@NautArch dont let your warlock take illusionists bracers
 
@ThomasMarkov not a problem. No eberron or ravnica content allowed in my campaigns.
well, crap. that's not true.
 
@NautArch rip
 
but will be true moving forward
unless i give it out
 
Oh just wanna say @NautArch I don't think they're off-topic but that doesn't mean I think they are particularly good questions either. Always best when the OP has done prior research themself. I also don't know if I've been here enough to get a feel for topicality since I mostly just go "does it fit in one of these pre-defined boxes?"
 
1:00 PM
@Medix2 these are examples of conditions with effects that aren't listed?
 
@Medix2 The humility required to admit "i dont think ive been here enough" while at 40k rep is admirable.
 
@NautArch Oh nah those are questions that kinda just go "research for me", would you like examples of what conditions do that they don't list?
@ThomasMarkov I meaningfully joined in June of 2019, so it hasn't been that long to me
 
@Medix2 oh! I thought that was what you were linking to. But I am interested in more of that question (even thought I don't think it really matters.) If you are doing something with a known mechanic, that mechanic will tell you. THe fact they didn't look up concentration was weird.
 
just got this error trying to load the front page
 
"Offline for maintenance"
 
1:03 PM
see, list questions broke the stack.
2
 
@NautArch this is my head canon.
 
@NautArch Yeah I ignored the class features like "Barbarians can't use Danger Sense while Incapacitated" cuz like... who would possibly expect the incapacitated condition to tell you something that specific
 
it seems to be only the front page. I can load individual questions fine
 
@ThomasMarkov I can't load anything XD
 
@Medix2 this is the problem i see with the question. Technically this trivial answer fits the question.
I clicked on all questions and it told me the stack had zero questions.
 
1:06 PM
It's working now for me at least
Nothing will beat when the error message telling me that an error message failed, failed, resulting in a wholly different error message...
 
@NautArch what if we use a queue?
 
its back up for me
 
@NautArch But yeah what I got: Incapacitated: Can't flank, can't cause disadvantage to nearby ranged attacks, can be automatically grappled/shoved; Invisible: Can always hide; Prone: Doesn't describe how crawling actually works, flying and mounted movement are weird; Unconscious: Can be stabilized; Grappled: The Grappler moves differently.
 
@Medix2 seems like a good list. I honestly don't know if it's complete or not - or if any of the newer books include things, too.
 
@NautArch Oh gosh darn it... I forgot about newer books *grumble grumble*
 
1:11 PM
^^
was just typing that
 
I also forgot to check... the SAC doc...
 
The more I think about it, the more I think it's too broad. The game is built on combining things. You start with the mechanic that's discussed and then reference anything that it talks about.
They just never looked at the concentration rules when the issue was about concentration.
they only looked at the condition
Which could be a frame challenge answer, i guess.
 
alright ive got one we should be able to tag without clairifcation
0
Q: Can you cast a spell from a Ring of spell storing during same round action and bonus action?

OddrigueSo I just got acquainted with the existence of Rings of spell storing. I was wondering if I had Beacon of Hope and Sanctuary stored in it, could I use the ring to cast both spells in the same round or would it count as 2 actions instead of 1 action and 1 bonus action ?

OP links to three different places from roll20's dnd5e compendium.
Ive asked OP to do it, but we could do it ourselves, right?
 
probably could, but it really is better for OP to do it. Especially because they're not that new.
i also may change the links to dndbeyond
 
I thought we had a question on that... but that might've been on the weird BA spell rule
 
1:16 PM
@NautArch feels weird to do that when we're waiting on 'confirmation' that it's DND-5e
 
@AncientSwordRage kindasortanotreally. I'm just changing the link to the same item to a more legitimate source. Not that roll20 is legit, but they have mistakes in formatting that are meaningful.
 
@NautArch leav them roll20, Ill include dndbeyond links in my answer
 
@ThomasMarkov too late
 
no big deal lol
 
@NautArch I mean if it's obvious enough to change the link, it's obvious enough to add the tag
 
1:20 PM
@ThomasMarkov Roll20 capitalizes unnecessarily and creates issues because of that
I'm fairly certain there was a question in the past that linked to 5e materials and was closed... but I don't think I'll be able to find it. Perhaps it just linked to other 5e questions
 
@AncientSwordRage We can do that?!
 
@Medix2 sure
 
@AncientSwordRage This newfound power is immense, thank you
@ThomasMarkov I still think your header is wrong XD
 
riup me
rip me
whats wrong with it
 
1:28 PM
You also can't cast a bonus action cantrip and a levelled spell
 
then the header is right within the scope of the question
 
Here's the question I look at frequently which kinda shows that there's no easy wording... An answer uses the complicated "if you cast (or will cast) a bonus action spell (cantrip or non-cantrip) in a turn, no other non-cantrip spells (even ones using the action from action surge) can be cast."
 
and incomplete for the most general scope for spellcasting action economy
so not wrong
 
I also am unsure if "levelled" is even usable since cantrips are level 0
 
@ThomasMarkov but not wholly right? :-p
 
1:30 PM
@AncientSwordRage wholly right but rightly unwhole?
 
I wonder why you can't retract reopen votes....
 
@ThomasMarkov rightly unholy
 
@AncientSwordRage thats it.
@Medix2 when in doubt use footnotes.
 
@ThomasMarkov I see you too do math
 
Arrays in programing should use the indexes ['cantrip', 1, 2, 3 ...]
 
1:34 PM
@AncientSwordRage cantrip == -cantrip
 
@DavidCoffron You're not wrong with the monk, but that is a woefully incomplete answer.
 
@Medix2 so long as we avoid divide by cantrip errors
 
@NautArch It lists a way, the OP didn't ask for all ways *intense sigh*
@AncientSwordRage Do we have cantrip-divisors now?!
 
@Medix2 i didnt start playing dnd to have to do abstract algebra.
 
@Medix2 lets hope not
 
1:37 PM
@NautArch There is no option more consistent sans spellcasting (what the OP requested). Since there are no bludgeoning finesse weapons, that is the only option where almost every attack will meet the criteria
 
@Medix2 I'm not differentiating the two, to be honest. If a question asks for ways, answers should contain the ways.
 
@ThomasMarkov why else would you play?
 
@DavidCoffron Wait really? I'm surprised they've never invented a bludgeoning arrow tbh. Hmmm I'm not finding one, wow
 
@DavidCoffron Off the top of my head, there is also the hexblade, and i'm betting there are some others out there, too. Especially if we have to parse through the UA and newer content.
 
@NautArch I hadn't thought of the Hexblade. I'm going to delete my answer until we haev better info from the OP.
 
1:39 PM
instant downvote, I wonder who that was...eyes nautarch suspisciously :P
 
@ThomasMarkov yup, that's me.
 
@Medix2 I mean there is the sling, but that's almost always suboptimal to other ranged weapons
 
incomplete answer and before we get the bounds for the list.
 
@ThomasMarkov Darn I was too slow
 
@DavidCoffron feel free to add hexblade to yours.
@Medix2 it came with a price glares at nautarch
 
1:41 PM
I found magic items that work
 
i nominate david coffron's answer to be the host of this list if it ever comes out
 
@ThomasMarkov seconded
 
As long as someone does the legwork for a complete answer, I'm totally fine.
 
@DavidCoffron slings historically should be absolutely lethal
 
Or everybody does it and we get a CW answer
All slings (magical and mundane) would work, as would the storm boomerang
 
1:44 PM
have you got Artificer on the list? also a caster class, but Battlesmith does like Hexblade and gives Int-based attacks.
 
Shillelagh (for spell-bsaed temporary)
@LizWeir that's another one!
but yeah, this is why we need to understand the bounds
 
@NautArch Yeah I listed Hexblade, Martial Arts, and Shillelagh here
 
@ThomasMarkov I'm historically bad at updating list answers, so honestly others might be better :P
 
we cna edit yours for you :p
 
(battlesmith requires you to be using a magic weapon but also by that point the Infusion feature has given you an option to make whatever weapon you're wielding permanently magical so that's barely a restriction)
 
1:45 PM
@DavidCoffron You're joking right? I watched you go back through all your optimization posts and update them with the release of various books
 
NautArch predicted this:
42 mins ago, by NautArch
see, list questions broke the stack.
@Medix2 THat's because I enjoy those a lot more than list questions
 
@DavidCoffron Oh that's fair, yeah, very fair. I definitely have un-updated list answers...
 
I still have to update the language question to be more readable and account for the new settings books
 
@DavidCoffron That just means you're aware of which ones need updating, which is more than most people I imagine
 
@DavidCoffron I know I've seen people make those CW answers when they felt they didn't want to keep it updated
 
1:48 PM
Yup, and it will be in my eventual meta post revisiting list questions.
 
There are things like this
@NautArch You will inevitably get people saying these are not list questions
 
@Medix2 We have a couple of those as dupe-magnets/resources (see the linked questions on that one for instance)
 
Yeah that's fair. I know I've heard people say that questions that ask answers to be lists are not especially different from other sorts of questions... optimization and honestly just some rules questions can have their answers completely changed by errata and new books (hi Crawford)
@ThomasMarkov I meant to get back to that one and kinda gave up
 
@Medix2 True; it's just some lists are changed by almost every book. Like imagine if we had a question "What are all the spells?", or worse "What are all the official spellcasters?"
 
1:52 PM
@Medix2 i remember that one because I added all the page number references.
 
@ThomasMarkov I spent a while finding more options for it too XD
@DavidCoffron We have a question on the distribution of monster resistances...
 
@Medix2 Didn't that get edited to only ask about MM though (exactly for that reason)?
 
@DavidCoffron Ah yeah, quote "for simplicity's sake"
 
I think that the best option for counterspell is and will likely always be taking advantage of cover
Not only is using cover good for preventing counterspell, but it also is good to hide behind after casting for those squishy wizard-types
Wall of stone will always be on my short list of underrated spells
 
@DavidCoffron bones of the earth is usually on mine
 
2:00 PM
I don't know if slow is underrated, but its probably my favorite spell right now.
This weekend slow took a fight that was almost an inevitable TPK and turned it into a cakewalk.
 
@ThomasMarkov Definitely underrated. Most experienced wizard players will learn to love it, but it seems underwhelming to beginners.
 
My DM made this cool boss with huge multiattacks and a cool reaction ability. Never got to use them.
 
Aww my conditions answer got a downvote
 
One of my favorite BBEG's from the adventure modules, Strahd, gets so much easier with good planning and the slow spell (if you can land it)
 
@ThomasMarkov I almost feel bad for our GM when things like that happen. *plans awesome encounter* ... *Players absolutely obliterate it in an unforeseen fashion*
 
2:05 PM
@Medix2 Yeah... It took me a few years when I started DMing (back in AD&D 2e) to get over that disappointment
Recognizing that the game can be enjoyed (and is enjoyed the most by me) as a story-telling exercise with fun mechanics makes the unforeseen exploits of the characters more epic than how it used to feel cheap before I thought of D&D that way.
 
@DavidCoffron Best moment of GMing for me was when I agreed with the following: "The players having fun means I'm having fun"
 
@Medix2 My DM and I have had to work through this. I think my crossbow expert/sharpshooter bard is fun. For him there was a learning curve for balancing encounters.
He did not have fun the first combat we had after I got shrphshooter.
Things are much better now that our paladin is consistently dealing more damage than me.
 
@ThomasMarkov TTRPGs but you can't use vowels... I could probably convince the linguistics folx I know to do this...
 
Our GWM oathbreaker paladin, I should say.
shrpshtr nd crssbwxprt r fn
 
The Oathbreaker aura is kinda scary ngl. Stacking them is... confusing
 
2:11 PM
@ThomasMarkov Hey, even with 11 years of DMing, I had a player that brought that combo to the game, and I had to adapt drastically. It is so strong, and makes the normal solutions to glass cannon builds harder to implement since it can be used from so far away.
@Medix2 One of my favorite characters I built was an Oathbreaker Paladin/Wizard who was a pacifist, and summoned demons to do the fighting for himself.
Planar binding is also very strong
 
@DavidCoffron thats not pacifism, that pugilism with extra steps :p
 
@ThomasMarkov Fair. The actual language I used was "won't get his own hands dirty"
 
Would that be a direct-pacifist or an indirect-pacifist... I think the first one? Wait no... the second??
Now I just wanna say the staple weird and linguistically complicated sentences XD
 
@Medix2 Hm? Like the buffalo one?
12
Q: How should I parse the sentence "Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo."

Sagar R. KothariWhy is the following statement valid, and how can I break it down so that it is easier to understand? Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.

 
buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo ?
 
2:15 PM
@DavidCoffron Oh nah the real fun ones that linguists actually use and enjoy
 
The rat the cat the dog bit chased escaped.
 
They saw the man with the binoculars.
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.
What book did you review without actually reading?
More people have been to Brazil than I have.
 
Yeah ambiguity is fun
How many people do you have exactly? :P
 
That sentence is particularly just evil. You can say it to somebody and it sounds perfectly valid and then you wait some amount of time and they go "wait what?" Is it linguistically grammatical? Who knows
 
Yeah; at first I thought parsing it was simple once you realized that "I have" doesn't refer to "been to Brazil", but it doesn't work then either
It doesn't quite transcribe to "I have more people than those who have been to Brazil"
 
2:22 PM
@DavidCoffron Wait, why doesn't it?
 
@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Well it's certainly not supposed to at the very least...
 
@DavidCoffron Eisenhorn, is that you?
 
@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Because "more" describes the people, and is not connected to the verb "have"
 
@DavidCoffron 'I have less/fewer people than have been to Brasil' seems to be the same thing structurally. What am I missing?
 
[More people] have been {to Brazil} {than I have}
 
2:25 PM
I'm reading it as "More people (than I) have been to Brazil "
 
@AncientSwordRage That's what it sounds like, but the {than I have} prepositional phrase technically applies to where the "more people" have been
"More people have been than I have" is just nonsensical
 
@AncientSwordRage I'm working on the assumption that the phrase as written should be meaningful and informative. To be meaningful and informative, it seems it must not be parsed the way you are parsing it here.
 
~
Actually, maybe you're right @vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica ; it does parse that way
 
@DavidCoffron both clauses share the verb 'have', so I don't see that much different to "More people have been than I."
 
@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica It is not meant to be meaningful. In fact, it's an example of a meaningless statements that feels meaningful
This all isn't helped much by the fact that "have" is a regular verb and an auxiliary verb
 
2:28 PM
@AncientSwordRage In that case, the second have is redundant. If we assume that every word affects the meaning, we have to guess that it means something else
 
@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica That's not a very good way to approach intentionally nonsense (semantically) but structurally correct phrases
 
@AncientSwordRage But the verb is used twice because you can't use a verb in both an auxiliary and non-auxiliary way without typing it twice. E.g. you cannot type 'I have been to Brasil and two pencils in my pocket', you should type 'I have been to Brasil and have two pencils'.
 
Removing the ambiguous phrasing we get something like: People exist (who have been to Brazil) (that are in greater quantity) than people I posess.
 
im gonna banish yall to the elemental plane of english class
 
@DavidCoffron there's often sentences that contain extraneous words, phrases, and clauses. <---like this one is missing 'extraneous' in front of each list item
 
2:31 PM
@ThomasMarkov Do you have the material component? "Essence of ain't" (i.e. something distasteful to the target)
 
@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica but you can! There is a word for this formulation, but it's greek
@DavidCoffron Objection! ain't dates back to the victorian era!
 
@DavidCoffron Yeah, I have poorly worded list questions.
 
@ThomasMarkov shudders
 
List questions, list questions, whatever is a list question... Still mad/salty about the prescribed definition just not matching at all with the expected (and used) definition
 
You have poorly worded questions about lists? Or questions about poorly worded lists?
 
2:32 PM
But also, even if you read as "More people than I have been to Brazil" that is still nonsensical. I is always one person.
 
@Medix2 list questions list question lists.
2
Parse that.
 
@MikeQ Or is he saying that he himself has worded list questions poorly
 
The point of the phrase is that it sounds perfectly valid at first and then you think about it and it just breaks itself apart into meaninglessness or things people wouldn't say
 
(is the verb "have worded" or "have")
 
@DavidCoffron "I got to alphabetize things" vs "I gotta alphabetize things" vs "I've got to alphabetize things" vs "I've gotta alphabetize things"
 
2:34 PM
@DavidCoffron it can emphasize that their experience in brazil is not necessarily authoritative
 
Or if we want to get musical: Liszt's Liszt list questions list Liszt's question lists.
 
@ThomasMarkov You beat me to it (I was trying to figure out how to spell him)
 
@MikeQ All of those removed the second "have"
 
@Medix2 So what you're saying is that we need "More people than I have have been to Brazil" :P
 
@BESW That's one fine answer right there.
 
2:36 PM
@Medix2 I misread the original sentence. Never mind.
 
In rhetoric, zeugma ( (listen); from the Ancient Greek ζεῦγμα, zeûgma, lit. "a yoking together") and syllepsis (; from the Ancient Greek σύλληψις, sullēpsis, lit. "a taking together") are figures of speech in which a single phrase or word joins different parts of a sentence. == Definition == In current usage, there are multiple and sometimes conflicting definitions for zeugma and syllepsis. This article categorizes these two figures of speech into four types, based on four definitions: === Type 1 === Grammatical syllepsis (sometimes also called zeugma): where a single word is used in relation to...
 
@DavidCoffron If you really want to construe it into something meaningful, uh, sure?
ZEUGMA!
 
I love zeugma
My naive high school pot self put them in like every stanza xD
 
I love parasitic gaps (they're sorta related)
 
@Ben so did I, to get adheive ground off of my teeth. Ouch.
 
2:37 PM
The sentence "If he's an "ancient, angelic guardian of hope," you're going to build him differently than if he's a "crafty and manipulative magical hobo."" is a treasure of the english language.
re: @BESW's answer about gandalf.
 
@ThomasMarkov Also whether or not he uses that sword effectively lol
 
@KorvinStarmast I went to upvote the answer after reading and was confused and upset when I couldn't. Then I figured out it was locked of course, sadly for BESW's rep ;-)
 
@MikeQ I am doing an after action report on myself for the last encounter you all had, and I finally get what I saw differently what you saw when you were trying to find a way to crawl onto the ceiling through the doorway. Spider on the wall/bulkhead of the ship above the door, and then try to get through the gap between ettercaps' head and top of door frame. I should have asked for more description (yeah, it was crowded) but in retrospect, that could have worked.
 
I should really do my homework... See ya!
 
@KorvinStarmast No worries. I thought we were in the lower deck.
 

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