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8:00 PM
But it still does state it.
 
@NautArch Yeah it just says your only movement options are crawling and teleporting IIRC, but doesn't actually describe what crawling is
 
@Medix2 Sure, because it doesn't need to. It's already been described.
but then again, so was concentration
 
@NautArch Many pages away, in a very different section, under a different rule
 
@Medix2 But that's not uncommon in any type of writing. Once something has been stated, it doesn't need to be restated at every instance.
 
@NautArch Then isn't their entire prompt and surprise at concentration unfounded?
 
8:02 PM
@Medix2 In a way, yes.
But it's also understandable to have missed something. Asking about every possible other case, though?
 
@NautArch Reminder text is darn useful though. Saves a lot of conundrums like this
 
@NautArch Yeah but usually a couple times, especially in the PHB, they give a page number to where the rule is
 
FWIW I've asked questions that ask for lists and got closed
 
@DavidCoffron heh. I'm not sure I even know when/where. I always found myself flipping around.
But i'm used to that. It's general research skills.
grognard says "kids these days"
 
So, it's come to my attention that Gorillas can use weapons and smite during Wild Shape.
 
8:04 PM
@NautArch a couple places are spells in each class description (where it tells you what chapter they're found in), and languages for the races (where it references the relevant section)
@Axoren Technically any animal can if you can convince your GM that it has suitable hands or hand-like appendeges
 
@DavidCoffron Druid Wildshape lets you keep your features in 5e
 
@Axoren nods but a flying snake can't carry a sword
 
Hopefully the DM allows the gorilla paladin to wield a barrel as a melee weapon
 
Druid Rogue Wildshaped into a Mouse can Sneak Attack with a Needle (dart)!
 
@Axoren Oof an owl rogue with flyby wuold be brutal
(although it is very similar to the mobile feat so.... shrug)
 
8:06 PM
Found another question that asks for a list @NautArch "What are all the ways that a PC can become immune to the frightened condition?" here was my own that got closed.
 
@Medix2 Is this stackable: "What are some of the most useful lists in D&D 5e sourcebooks?" :P
List of lists?
 
Notably, most of the questions I'm finding have either chat rooms or comment threads or closures or Metas in their history...
@DavidCoffron I might try to compile a list of questions that are answered by lists and go "Look, people don't agree if these are topical"
 
Hmm... Divine Smite won't work with improvised weapons, but Assassinate + Death Strike will.
 
Druid Barbarian... Angry Gorilla?
Druid Monk... Hippo Double Body Slam after a Trampling Charge
 
@MikeQ Wait.... Death Strike works on spell attacks!?!?!
 
8:13 PM
@DavidCoffron Huh... sure does. Do you have some opt.answers to update?
 
@DavidCoffron It's any attack IIRC, but also it's a level 17 feature, so not many useful spells except from scrolls really
 
@Someone_Evil No. 17 levels of rogue costs too much for most of them, and there aren't very many attack spells anyway
 
@DavidCoffron Death Strike works on Plane Shift
You can double its damage to 0!
 
Oh, going back to the ancient topic of underrated spells: catapult. I love that you can miss one target and still have a chance to hit another
 
@Medix2 Catapult is my favorite follow-up to an enemy being disarmed.
Fighter Disarms opponent with a Maneuver. Wizard casts Catapult at the opponent. Whether or not he hits, the item will hit a wall, the ceiling, or an obstacle, and destroy their weapon
Average damage destroys iron longswords
It solves the "They'll just pick it back up" problem of Disarm
 
8:17 PM
Uhg... right, object damage rules. I generally prefer "use your common sense" to those, but you do you
 
Doing about 14 damage to an object is a lot.
And if you get big rolls, it's gonna be hard to say something like that doesn't break
Mind you, Break doesn't mean powderize
That would be nonsensical
 
Yeah, I guess that's maybe more where my problem is. Hiving it hit points doesn't make too much sense without also having some line of that running out does, but I'd rather just handle that narratively, so I don't really need hit points on them either
 
How would you deal with a situation where a player's sub goal is to break the item as part of the action?
 
@Axoren In one game, we were fighting and our dex paladin dropped his whip. Folks were dying and I needed something to catapult. Sorry, dex pally.
 
Because that's pretty common at our table
 
8:22 PM
@Someone_Evil What's next? Weapons making saving throws *nervous laughter*
 
@Medix2 You joke, but I once had a Greatsword Dance Party with Animate Objects and then the boss cast Fireball
 
@Axoren I just kinda say they can't (in 5e-dnd)... the system doesn't lend itself to called shots without a lot of overhaul/refashioning
 
@Medix2 What do you mean called shots? Is there a misunderstanding here?
 
@Medix2 yeah, i'm not seeing this as a called shot.
The object is no longer worn or wielded.
 
We're not trying to break an object in someone's hand. The object you catapult takes equal damage as per the spell.
 
8:24 PM
it's just an object.
 
@Axoren Cross that bridge when I get to it, using the game's tools as applicable for the specific instance
 
@NautArch You're lucky whips are cheap, btw.
 
@Someone_Evil how would you rule if a player wanted to catapult a dropped weapon?
@Axoren cheap yes. Available? not always.
 
Oh but like... would the cast have any control over the damage the weapon takes? I'm not seeing how that's a sub goal; just seems like a definitive effect
 
But it was sort of a running joke with taking his whip away.
 
8:25 PM
@Medix2 I agree.
Also, separate notion: Casting from Scrolls matches the casting speed of the underlying spell. Therefore, a moneymancer would be able to spend each round with a Scroll of Shield in their hand instead of a regular shield.
It'll only be relevant on 4 out of 20 rolls from each enemy attacking you, so you don't cast it each round.
In the meantime, when it does matter, you have +4 AC
No spell slots wasted.
 
@Axoren Isn't it +5?
 
Deep pockets required, though
@Medix2 Oh my lord, it's even better
 
Though actually getting a scroll for a reaction spell is a bit harder since you'd have to trigger the reaction (maybe) oh wait... no that's casting it not making it
 
@Medix2 Punch yourself.
Also, that message might seem really aggro out of context.
 
@Axoren My strength is low enough I'll live, assuming I even hit, so no harm done
 
8:28 PM
6 STR, heal for 1 HP
taps temple
 
@NautArch Safe Word: Catapult
@Axoren taps temple, takes 1d4-1 damage
 
@AncientSwordRage Are items considered held if they're in my [redacted]?
 
@AncientSwordRage Tavern Brawler is the worst feat to take if you want to punch yourself to full health
Normally, hitting yourself is 1+STR. So, with 6 STR, you heal for 1
 
Death Strike even works with nets, forcing the target to make a pointless saving throw anyway
 
8:33 PM
@MikeQ Great way to scare the DM into spending a Legendary Resistance if they're not paying attention
"HAHA! You fail against Death Strike!"
"Legendary Resistance."
"Drats! You avoid taking NO DAMAGE!"
Nothing says you can't Grapple people while on a horse. They can be prone while grappled. You can drag people along the ground while on a horse. Nothing says they aren't face down.
Finding a lot of brutal techniques from this other group I joined.
Felt like sharing a couple of the best ones here
 
@Axoren Nothing says your mount can't grapple them either
^ not being serious
I think a lot of brutal techniques seem to take advantage of the fact that DnD is not a simulator
 
Going back to underrated spells: I've been thinking about how to make use of tiny servant and thinking about asking a main question on the lines of "Is it possible to make tiny servant better than find familiar?", but worried about it not working
 
whats to say you don't get pulled to the ground when you try that
 
@Someone_Evil I think a lot of that comes into trying to use utility spells in combat.
I doubt levitate is underrated, but it's one of my absolute favorites.
 
@NautArch Is it better out of combat?
 
8:41 PM
@Someone_Evil see... why is that not a ritual spell?
@Someone_Evil specify what you want it to be better at, normally familiars do one of two things, use the help action or act as spies
 
@AncientSwordRage Horses can put an entire human head in their mouth. No lie.
@Someone_Evil Is Dynamite small enough to be made into a Tiny Servant?
 
@Axoren May not exist in the given world, and may be carried by most familiars
 
@Someone_Evil I'm not letting snook'ems carry something so dangerous.
 
@Someone_Evil Casting time? armor class? hit points? climbing? blindsight? attacking? multiple servants? Artificer doesn't get find familiar?
The question marks are because I'm not sure if those are enough or if they're what you mean
 
Part of the though is also what happens when you start building around it (I want the tankard to be a cool part), and my first thought is dragon's breath
 
8:49 PM
@Someone_Evil Cold tankard = cold drink?
 
@Someone_Evil What? The insane optimization wasn't feasible? (I'm joking, of course it wasn't)
 
@Medix2 Uhm... yeah, no
 
Yeah dragon's breath is usually my go-to for "buff random thing"; or giving it magic items
 
The reason I think find familiar ends up being better with that spell is the familiar doesn't need a bonus action to command
 
@Someone_Evil Just depends how continuous and complicated your GM lets commands be
 
8:55 PM
Honestly, I think the Find Familiar spell would have worked better if the familiar acted on your turn. An extra help action at a time you can't control is a pretty weak combat option. If you could control who got it, it would be leagues better.
 
Find familiar is plenty good already, me thinks. It's a lot of utility on a first level spell
 
It's perfect out of combat. But I don't see the trade-off of pulling my familiar out of my pocket dimension during combat being worth it.
 
@Medix2 And actually looking at it, dragon's breath doesn't actually work with a tankard because it doesn't have a mouth (but that's probably ignorable)
 
Maybe the only thing a combat Familiar is good for is Dragon's Breath from above
15 ft cone angled down hits like 9 squares.
Roughly the area covered by a Rod of Blasting each turn
 
I never really thought of FF as being a combat-oriented spell (they literally can't attack)
 
8:59 PM
Yup, flying dragon's breath is not bad
@Medix2 It isn't without some help
 
@Axoren There's no way...
 
Though we had a wizard with 1 level of cleric (IIRC) who delivered cure wounds with their owl, which is pretty decent
 
@Medix2 The action required by casting Dragon's Breath is not an attack.
 
@Axoren No that it hits 9 squares... it hits like... 4?
 
@Medix2 Use the XGE's tile rules
 
9:00 PM
@Medix2 15ft. diameter circle on the battle-map
 
@Axoren Oh right there's like four versions of these rules...
@Someone_Evil It's a circle?
 
@Medix2 At least
 
XXXX
XOOX
OOOX
XXOX
XXXX
 
@Medix2 Cone projected onto the plane
 
@Someone_Evil Huh? The cone is just a cone
 
9:01 PM
I can't get it to render it monospace
 
@Axoren Multiline has a fixed font option (using the indent)
@Axoren Fixed it for you :)
 
@Someone_Evil Lol, sorry was in the middle of editing it. Thanks, though
 
@Medix2 But it's a cone from above
 
@Someone_Evil From 5-feet above?
 
From 15 ft. above
 
9:03 PM
Oh it this a cone pointing straight down?
 
Yes.
 
OHHH
Wait how does the Xanathar's rule allow for 3D?
 
@Medix2 It doesn't. The third dimension is only in our minds
But assume the logic is to consider it as a 15 ft circle on the battlefield and then use that with the XGtE method
 
The way I'd rule it to make it simple:

Layer z+0:
XXXXX
XOOOX
XOOOX
XOOOX
XXXXX

Layer z+1:
XXXXX
XOOXX
XOOXX
XXXXX
XXXXX

Layer z+2:
XXXXX
XXXXX
XXOXX
XXXXX
XXXXX
 
Well that's... annoying XD
 
9:05 PM
(I don't actually know if that ends up at 9, but
 
Stack a 3x3, a 2x2, and a 1x1
 
@Axoren Shouldn't it be 1 2 3 not 1 4 9? "In every row beyond that one, place as many tokens as you placed in the previous row, plus one more token."
 
@Medix2 That accounts for standing targets
However, a cone is as wide as it is long. Cast downward from 15 ft. up, it'll be 15 ft. wide.
 
@Medix2 Those rules are also 2D, no? But extrapolate them to 3D, I guess
 
@Axoren Oh it leaves calculating the third dimension as an exercise to the reader... I see how you work Xanathar's!
 
9:07 PM
Cones are also circular, so it must be 15 ft. wide in each direction
 
@Someone_Evil Yeah the "I guess" is what I don't like :(
 
The diagram in the book demonstrates that cones are 3D
And Flavor Text is canon because we as a company cannot be held responsible or the low quality of our products
 
@Medix2 But if the Xanathar told people how to use 3D, they would find the secret vertical shaft in their lair!
 
@Axoren I think it's only how spells taste that's canon
 
Hilariously, the canonical example from the book is a cone aimed straight down
 
9:09 PM
Oh yeah that thing is definitely 3D, just the Xanathar's rules don't address it at all
I wonder if you can get more squares in a cone by angling it from the top of your square...
 
Technically, yes.
 
Cones are definitely my least favorite shape in this game
And then probably cubes, then lines
 
However, a lot of precision is lost when translating to tiled gameplay
I feel like Cubes are the best shape
 
Turn them sideways and they aren't
Why a 5-foot square hits four squares... I'll never know
 
Just got my print copy of Mythic Odysseys of Theros
 
9:12 PM
Playing on a tiled grid like everyone else in the first world? "You can hit these cubes. Period."
 
I feel like the confusion that arises from the fact that the cube is not centered on the target point is annoying enough.
 
@ThomasMarkov WOoT!
 
@ThomasMarkov mine arrives by friday :(
C'mon amazon, get your prime delivery faster, you guys
 
First World: Grid map. Second World: Theater of the Mind. Third World: Minis on Boats in a pond.
Unrelated to the geopolitical First/Second/Third as we have it
 
@ThomasMarkov shiny
I got a digital one when it was on offer
 
9:19 PM
@Medix2 Did you really just......
 
Wythic Odyssey of Theros
 
@HellSaint it's weird
 
@AncientSwordRage @ThomasMarkov It's so that you can place Thunderwave in front of you like a Blast Attack from 4e
Unfortunately, it just exists for the sake of that one spell? I don't know of any other cube spells
 
5
Q: Can you cast two spells from a Ring of spell storing during the same round using an action and a bonus action?

OddrigueSo I just got acquainted with the existence of Rings of spell storing. I was wondering: If I had Beacon of Hope and Sanctuary stored in it, could I use the ring to cast both spells on the same turn? Or would it count as 2 actions instead of 1 action and 1 bonus action?

 
@Axoren investiture of wind, for one. There are more
 
9:28 PM
@Someone_Evil Are those spells good? I looked at one a long time ago and assumed they were all garbage.
 
Instead of readin my new copy of Theros I’m vacuuming my kitchen - my children poured out an entire box of Chex on the floor.
 
Don't really know. Never really gotten to play with 6th level spells
Mostly remember flame and ice as sources of damage immunity
 
Looking at them again, they seem a grab-bag of things you'd want, but none of which you'd want to spend a Level 6 spell for. Also, it doesn't seem like what you get with each investiture is worth it even within combination
I think Fire and Ice are the only ones worth it, in the specific niches that make them worth it. Protection from Energy is just a lot more versatile and resource-cheap.
 
Isn't cloud of daggers a cube?
 
@Medix2 yep
 
9:40 PM
@Medix2 Yeah, but it doesn't originate from the caster
 
@Axoren What's that for?
 
@Medix2 This thing
 
@Axoren No like why are we interesting in cubes only if they originate from the caster
 
Because the point of origin doesn't functionally matter in that case.
 
I don't understand, but that's okay
 
9:42 PM
Originating from the caster (like Thunderwave) restricts where it can be placed
Otherwise, the only thing it affects is who gets cover from the cube.
 
@Axoren Oh yeah but people don't really agree how :(
 
Cover is blocked by direct line interruption from the point of origin.
However, partial cover only affects Dex effects
Total cover, like being behind a tower shield, will only protect you from a cube whose point of origin is placed on the other side of the tower shield
However, with Cloud of Daggers, you can just orient the cube in the best way to avoid cover always
 
Yeah... oh and you're saying thunderwave only has 8 options for its point of origin?
 
Thunderwave has oodles
It must be adjacent to the caster. That's it.
 
Pretty sure it's just 8...
Just infinite ways to orient and place it on those 8 points
 
9:45 PM
You select a cube's point of origin, which lies anywhere on a face of the cubic effect.
 
But the point of origin has to be you
 
Yes. Any one of your corners
 
Of which you have.... 8
 
Are you discarding symmetries?
 
A cube has 8 corners, no?
 
9:47 PM
???
Hold on. There's a misunderstanding, I think.
XXXXX
XXCXX
XOOOX
XOOOX
XOOOX
XXXXX
This is a valid placement, do you agree?
 
I don't think so?
 
C for caster O for effect?
 
Oh wait yeah, you just place it in front of yourself?
 
@Himitsu_no_Yami Yes
@Medix2 Yes.
 
But there's a lot of ways to make that shape
 
9:48 PM
So you're discarding symmetries.
 
You still only have 8 options for your point of origin
 
Try this: Lift it one Z-level up
Cast it straight down from 15 ft. up.
 
Yes, and? Still same point of origin?
I mean you could do that; I don't see why not?
 
What do you mean by same point of origin? you can pick any point on the cube as the point of origin and it is connected to any corner of your caster.
That's way more than 8 placements.
 
No?
One of your corners must be the point of origin
There are only 8 corners.
 
9:50 PM
I get confused when people use up and down as Z... I've played too much Minecraft
 
Yes, but one of your 8 corners can be touching any part of the cube
 
Where that point is on the cube is an infinite list of options
Any part of the outside of the cube, yes
 
There's where out misunderstanding was
So, the actually cube can be in more than 8 locations relative to you
 
4
Q: How can I consistently deal bludgeoning damage with DEX, WIS, INT, CHA?

maxmilgramI am looking for ways to combine the newly introduced Unearthed Arcana feat Crusher, which benefits attacks that deal crushing damage; with the elven racial feat Elven Accuracy, which benefits attacks made with Dexterity, Wisdom, Intelligence, or Charisma. I am planning to play a Fighter and both...

 
Oh yeah you can probably make it bigger than 3x3 by turning it sideways too
 
9:51 PM
Rotation s*** by pi-radians is where the DM calls Jank
 
I call it quits whenever the third dimension exists
 
GcL
I require that 1/2 the square to be affected to be in the AOE.
Also have a phrase, "pick a dang square"
 
@Medix2 you'd hate playing with me then cus I always try to make use of the third dimension
 
@GcL Cloud of daggers hits nobody :(
 
I don't like my players using templates because they don't actually match up with the max-norm geometry.
So I give them extra tiles and just say "You can hit roughly these many guys"
@Medix2 I generally Grapple people in the Bard's Cloud of Daggers in one of my games
 
9:53 PM
I just don't let the third dimension exist and don't use cones. The circles and squares work well in 2D
 
It's usually worth more than my attack
And then on subsequent turns, I can continue to hit them
 
@Medix2 do you house rule cones into other shapes?
@Medix2 How do you eat icecream if you don't use cones?
@Axoren doesn't that hurt?
 
Cones into connected 15 ft. Cubes is something I want to try
@AncientSwordRage Them. Not me.
I don't have to share their square to grapple
It's more like I'm holding them in a fan blade.
 
@Axoren ouch
 
Best part, if you're a good grappler, you can reuse the same cloud of daggers by dragging people
I'm a 1 Fighter/ X Thief Rogue, so I get expertise in Athletics and have high enough jumps to jump over the cloud while dragging people into the tile.
 
10:19 PM
@Axoren makes more sense
 
Hilariously, I've inspired a party member to use a Ring of Jumping
Once he saw how useful jumping was during combat
 
@Axoren I never bothered with jumping in combat, maybe I should?
 
You need to be able to jump over at least one square for it to functionally matter
And all jumping is STR based
 
I've never needed to jump cus I usually play flying characters
 
With high enough STR and jump bonuses, you can jump to the top of most commoner buildings in one leap and ledge grab.
And then jump between them with ease
Combining Grapple and Jump is great near crevasses.
 
 
1 hour later…
11:41 PM
@Axoren throw them in?
 
@AncientSwordRage You gotta play with your food a little.
Lift one finger at a time and start making demands, then start counting.
2
Then let them fall regardless.
 
@Axoren isn’t that a little cruel?
 
Never said what my alignment was.
 
I rest my case
 
I'm not a deontologist. I only treat the bad guys that way.
 
11:49 PM
Why am I thinking of your character as Gaston from BatB...
 
I play him more like a Cloaked British Rake or such
You'd find me in the alleyway asking for the time, then pushing you aside as I break right in through someone's window and walk out with their valuables.
 
@Axoren I real gentleman
 
"Thieves' Tools? You mean my Crowbar?"
"Stealth? You mean my Heavy-plated Foot Stomps?"
I'm like a bullet train. 90 ft per second in Heavy Armor. A true force of nature.
My party loves it and genuinely enjoys the nuance of it.
When they heard I was making a Rogue, they expected me to be one of those corner-dwelling edgelords from the stereotype.
 
@NautArch Would you actually like a list of questions that we currently have (that I stumble upon over the next while) that are answered by lists? Or perhaps just ones with discussion about lists in comments in chat rooms?
 

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