TRPG General Chat

@MikeQ A Diablo 5e system, a short story about DNA-based time travel, a Wizard's Duel card game system, and running a 5e game for a bunch of new players... I'll have to put "Descent into the Abyss" on hold. Same As LLKoM :P

MikeQ

@Ben Small projects and small milestones. Queue whatever you can't do now. That's how you make consistent progress.

Otherwise the burnout demons will steal your motivation.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected, potentially bad keyword in answer, toxic answer detected (159): How can I get a feat at level 1 in D&D 5e? by Bunch'o'whiners on rpg.SE

Ben

12:50 AM

It begins :(

MikeQ

Ahem. Anyway.

Ben

@MikeQ Currently everything is on hold. Work has taken the main priority. I get home and pass out lol

KorvinStarmast

@doppelgreener But SE won't, right? :p

MikeQ

@Ben All the more reason to have a creative outlet! Worldbuilding, game design, programming, beetle training, noodle art... so many options.

KorvinStarmast

1:06 AM

Golf and car repair ...

Ben

I tend to make Dark Souls Builds. Lol. Currently I'm working on a Tank Build.

MikeQ

Tank build, eh? Have you tried Havel's set or Giant dad?

Ben

@MikeQ Well, this is DS3. And Havel's is a bit generic. I've gone with Knight set and Greatsword, poise ring and Abyss Walker Greatshield

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted user (71): Where in the 5e multiverse is Eberron? ✏️ by Jeffrey Witty on rpg.SE

Ben

Got the equip load up so I'm not flopping about when I roll, but now just gotta get the endurance up so I can get more than 2 swings in haha

MikeQ

1:09 AM

Is the giant door shield viable for tanky builds, or is it just there for trolling purposes?

Someone_Evil

@SmokeDetector Hey, relax. There's nothing to get worked up over

Ben

@MikeQ Not sure... I mean, I can see it being viable for a "bait" build maybe?

Get all the aggro then just block while everyone else attacks?

@SmokeDetector [pets soothingly] shhh, it's ok

Hot RPG Questions

6

Q: Can the Half-Orc's relentless endurance protect them from things that would normally kill someone instantly

In our campaign, we have a Half-Orc Barbarian. Very original. We are going along this cliff-side fortress and are worried about falling off. The Half-Orc's player jokingly says that he'll be fine, due to his Relentless Endurance. But I was thinking about it, and it seems like he's right, but this...

Ben

@MikeQ there you go: Skull Ring

> Can for example be used strategically in a boss fight: a player with the ring can hide behind a greatshield and keep the boss occupied so the phantoms are free to hack away.

@MikeQ oh, and a DH Campaign. That's something else I wanna do again.

MikeQ

1:28 AM

Why not a short form adventure? Much easier logistically than a full campaign in the traditional sense.

Ben

Well, in all honesty I'd be happy to play a full campaign. Running it is off the table atm.

NautArch

Short forms can always lead to campaigns...

Ben

Just need someone to run it :P

Just wanna play my Techpriest again haha

[Hadden pets his Servo Skull] "I love you Servo Skull"

goodguy5

Why is the water so warm over here....

MikeQ

@Ben Won't be me. My game mastering hands are full with an existing queue. The current herculean labour is to sift through the various Pathfinder short form modules, find interesting ones, surgically edit them, and - most difficult of all - schedule a session.

NautArch

1:35 AM

@goodguy5 I feel much better

Miniman

@Ben In DS3 knight set doesn't really count as tanky :P

Ben

@goodguy5 I wouldn't mind actually playing the new one... Wrath and Glory?

@Miniman No, not overly. But for now it's the lightest with the highest poise

Correct me if i'm wrong but W&G seems a little.. fate-esque?

MikeQ

W&G has some mechanics in common with WoD and Fate, from what I could find.

goodguy5

Miniman

@Ben Ah, fair enough. I think gundyr's is probably the equivalent at higher levels.

Ben

1:37 AM

In all honesty I only had a skim, and the only thing I know about fate is the d6+fudge dice system, which W&G seems to "copy"

@Miniman True. Tbh I had to grind fro about 3 hours to get all the swordgrass for the Wolf covenant - got the wolf ring and Greatshield

Miniman

@Ben Nice! PVP, or swamp grinding?

Ben

@Miniman Just swamp grinding. Only had the Gold Serpent rind to boost item find%, so I put on the silver serpent ring and shield of want. Collected about 80k souls in the process haha

Miniman

Also, I really feel like they undermined the value of a lot of rings by putting the +3 versions in the final DLC. It's like, you could grind for it, or you could just wait a bit.

Ben

For the Ghrus I was getting about 550 souls per kill from overkill, SSR and SoW

Miniman

@Ben No awesome mimic hat? :P

Ben

1:42 AM

@Miniman No! I kept forgetting to grab it haha

Miniman

And don't even get me started on new game+. Oh, the special stuff you get for new game+ is all +1 and +2 rings? Too bad you got all the +3 rings from the DLC on your first playthrough.

Ben

I'm pretty happy with the build though. I can take on Nameless King with little concern. :D

@Miniman Yeah haha. I just started playing Ashes of Ariandel, for the first time ever actually

Miniman

@Ben Oh, nice. I didn't love Ariandel, but the boss fight is incredible.

Have you done/are you going to do ringed city?

Ben

Will be doing Ringed City after Ariandel. Wanna do them in order in NG

BESW

Smithsonian Releases 2.8 Million Images Into Public Domain

KorvinStarmast

1:55 AM

@NautArch Cool, adult swim.

@BESW Cool!

goodguy5

DX

I decided to play some Heroes of the Storm and right out the gate, I've got this toxic jerk in my ranked game

BESW

@Rykara Hi!

Rykara

Hi!

Whoa. Did Jeffrey Witty just rage quit and try to delete all his questions?

KorvinStarmast

@goodguy5 heh, I guess it happens to us all. :(

@Rykara yeah, something went bad and then it went worse ...

BESW

Yup. We're not letting him take up any more of our chatspace than he's already taken.

What's on your mind?

I'm low-key panicking about line edits on this game for the Pleasant Dreams Jam that closes in less than two days.

Rykara

2:06 AM

Oh, didn't realize there'd been a bunch of texts about the subject already. Must be in a side room. Just saw the string of Robert Columbia edits and thought "That's odd..." Otherwise, just waiting for the bus to come so I can get off work :)

BESW

yeah, we moved the surviving unflagged parts of the conversation to the Not A Bar, if you really want to see.

Not a bar, but plays one on TV

I'm not a place to unwind after work, but I play one on TV.

2

KorvinStarmast

@Rykara In other news, there is progress on a corona virus anti virus thing that's going into clinical trials ...

see starred messages ...

Ben

@KorvinStarmast And on that topic, Hackers have piggybacked on that (not actually) to create a new network bug

"COVID-19"

KorvinStarmast

how nice...

Hot RPG Questions

6

Q: Can characters have firearms such as flintlock pistols and rifles?

I'm playing a game of D&D 5e with some friends. Are firearms such as flintlock pistols and rifles allowed?

dnd-5e firearms

Rykara

2:12 AM

I haven't really been following the corona virus that closely. I don't know enough about virology/epidemiology. Although I just started watching Pandemic on Netflix. Jesus talk about timing!

Ben

I stopped watching the Simpsons a while ago, so I'm not up to date with the predictions for the future.

:P

goodguy5

@KorvinStarmast yea. flamed the entire game until I muted him. used the 'r' word about another player. great guy

Ben

Wizard Duels: Lightning round. Concept is to have a "speed round" once players have expended all spell slots, so only have cantrips left.

@goodguy5 I enjoy Dark souls for that reason - no chat haha

MikeQ

@Ben Would that mean the game's pace slows down over time during a duel?

Ben

Well, the normal play is on your turn, you play an action and a bonus action. the other player(s) may take a Reaction as part of your turn.

So it's not overly slow, but the "lightning round" would generally be faster. I'm thinking perhaps both players play a cantrip at the same time?

Or... just popped into my head; a lightning round could be called randomly, or on a trigger, when spells only deal/reduce lightning damage. Lol

Or thunder

Call it a "storm round"

MikeQ

2:32 AM

What's the purpose of a lightning round? It occurs if the game extends for too long - one player hasn't won yet but both have expended all resources. Do you want to tip in favor of the player who's behind (negative feedback) or the player who's ahead (positive feedback)?

Ben

@MikeQ Was the original idea; yeah.

It would be for when one player runs out of spell slots. So, i guess that's positive feedback?

What I got so far. First Draft.

MikeQ

Is this a standalone game, or is it like a mini-game within D&D 5e?

Ben

@MikeQ 5e minigame

It uses the 5e system to determine the spellcasting system etc

cc @Miniman Poise:Weight Ratio :P

Plus Fashion Souls. Currently I have the Cathedral Knight Helm, Kight Armour and Legs, and Fallen Knight Gauntlets

nitsua60

3:17 AM

Just got back from game night, have to say thank you to the ROs, chatizens, and experienced users who helped contain that conflagration (here and mainsite) earlier. It wasn't fun for you, but you quickly and firmly and compassionately took care of things, sparing many other users the trouble in the process. You're a credit to humankind. I mean that seriously.

12

KorvinStarmast

@nitsua60 so how was game night?

nitsua60

Good. I've got a player who keeps throwing his characters into hot water, and is 3-for-4 in our last four sessions killing them off. I almost had him again tonight, but a well-timed crit turned away the bulette that was chasing the party in their sledge =)

KorvinStarmast

but a well-timed crit turned away the bulette that was chasing the party in their sledge I love the visual I got with that.

nitsua60

(I figure when a 94hp creature takes 52 damage in one blow, even the ravenous bulette might turn away. But I've scratched out "no encounter" in the table and replaced with "bulette's back". We may get five Jaws movies out of this.)

KorvinStarmast

"You are gonna need a bigger sledge!"

Ben

3:21 AM

@nitsua60 'tis the least we can do :)

KorvinStarmast

off to bed, early work tomorrow

Best wishes to all and sundry.

Ben

@KorvinStarmast Byeee

nitsua60

@KorvinStarmast The fighter, looking at the handaxe she was about to lob at the thing, may have said exactly that. "We're gonna need a bigger sledge." It was an eerily good Dreyfus impersonation.

Akixkisu

@nitsua60 awesome, they are some of my favourite creatures to play.

Ben

@nitsua60 I do enjoy moments like that, where they become their own Inside jokes haha

Even 5 years later, I can say "Hudson!" in my party, and everyone knows exaclty what I'm talking about

Miniman

3:33 AM

@Ben I told you gundy's is the good stuff :P

@Ben But yeah, obviously Fashion Souls is more important. I'm a big fan of Black Iron, both for fashion and because fire res is pretty incredible in DS3. Also Tarkus is awesome.

...and Tsorig is okay too, I guess.

MikeQ

What's a decent name for a mimic gourmand who aspires to eat every type of creature?

2

Miniman

@MikeQ Toriko?

Ben

I was going to use the Tarkus Ring... I forgot about it for a while, but it could be handy

@MikeQ Doppel-Gordon?

Miniman

@Ben It's a good one for UGS users.

Ben

Yis. Which is what I'm currently using

@MikeQ Aldritch?

goodguy5

3:46 AM

@MikeQ Hannibal Lecturn

Miniman

@Ben I know, that's why I mentioned it :P

@Ben Also, that's a great one XD

Ben

@Miniman [Lautrec's laughter in the background]

goodguy5

You could spell lectern correctly, if you want

Ben

@MikeQ Or you could go the other direction, and just give him a super ordinary name, like "Anthony", then when people refer to it in person, they add "The All-Eater; Anthony the All-Eater"

Like Jack Sparrow. "Captain.. Captain Jack Sparrow"

goodguy5

4:05 AM

Bertie Bott (or Boxx), searching for every flavor human beans

Hot RPG Questions

8

Q: If I have a maxed-out stat, can I take a half-ASI feat?

My character has 20 charisma in one of my DND games, but I want to take the Actor feat. This question kind of has two parts: RAW, can I take it and change the stat increase to another stat? If I take it and change the stat increase to another stat is it balanced still?

dnd-5e feats ability-scores character-advancement

Ben

@goodguy5 Building a compendium for their own line of confectionery haha. Love it

MikeQ

How about Lunchbox?

goodguy5

It's your monster. If you like lunchbox, then there ya go

Although, personally, I'd rather "BotaBox", but that's just me

MikeQ

Weird stuff happens when you give class levels to a mimic. This one has alchemist levels. It gets Throw Anything as a bonus feat and can launch acid bombs.

Maybe it keeps its alchemist supplies (utensils, cooking supplies) inside... itself?

Ben

4:11 AM

@MikeQ Saddlebag. It holds items, like utensils and food. Except the food is always missing.

goodguy5

I like the idea of it looking like a grill

MikeQ

4:26 AM

When an alchemist mimic draws and drinks a potion, where does the potion come from, and where does it go?

Ben

@MikeQ magic.gif

Rubiksmoose

@MikeQ Jeff.

goodguy5

4:46 AM

@Rubiksmoose is pronounced "geff"

Ben

@goodguy5 the "clay" is silent

V2Blast

5:07 AM

About to stream our D&D 5e actual-play podcast momentarily: https://www.twitch.tv/bigdredwun

In a universe adjacent to our own lies a world known as Runia. This world, once peaceful and idyllic, is now threatened by a monstrous being from its prehistory. A group of adventurers known as Whiskey Company have risen up to do what they can to fight this entity known only as Nagat. They have trekked far across the mortal realms in search of the shards of Barrinoth, the Titan of Justice, in hopes of returning him to his full power.

kviiri

6:03 AM

I have no strong opinion about the pronunciation of gif (I personally do with "s" due to stupid cultural memes) but I want to know if people arguing based on the "G coming from Graphics" pronounce "scuba" like "ska-ba"

Ben

@kviiri I use a hard G (Graphics) and I pronounce it "Skoo-ba"

Who says "Ska-ba"??

Powerdork

A punk who plays in a brass section

kviiri

@Ben No one I hope, it's just what follows from assuming that acronyms and abbreviations have to conform to their origins in pronunciation

Axoren

6:21 AM

@V2Blast It's how you describe Hunter x Hunter now that the author is really sick and will probably never continue it.

Power Word: Cancel

Also, nothing says you can't yell "Power Word: Pants" at someone as you cast Mental Prison and have them envision themselves stumbling over and hurting themselves trying to pull their pants back up.

2

V2Blast

7:12 AM

lol

BESW

7:46 AM

@Ben The "u" in SCUBA stands for "underwater," which most people don't pronounce with an "oo."

Ben

True. But then that circles back to the pronunciation of "gif", which stands for "Graphics Interface Format"

kviiri

@Ben Yes, that's exactly my point.

Ben

@Axoren We had a Barbarian that had an issue with pants.

@kviiri Fair.

kviiri

8:02 AM

I mean, people arguing that the pronunciation of gif has to follow from "graphics" are ignoring a lot of other acronyms with well-established pronunciations not agreeing with their origin

Ben

Axoren

@Ben Morally opposed? or was the issue that pants didn't like them?

Ben

I can't say anything about the general order of the process, but in my experience, the "official" enunciation of the word was given after people had been exposed to them for some time?

BESW

Guy Fawkes masks set my teeth on edge.

Ben

@Axoren Take all of those options, sprinkle in some salt, mush it up a bit and I think that's the roundabout explanation we'd get

Axoren

8:13 AM

JPEG is not pronounced Jay-pheg.

Ben

@Axoren No I pronounce it "Jay-PEG"

Axoren

Why am I getting Flagged Messages from an RU Stack Overflow chatroom?

Do I have power there?

Ben

@Axoren you have an overall rep in chat

Axoren

Oh my god, when did that happen?

Ben

It's a culmination of your rep across all sites, effectively.

Axoren

8:16 AM

Oh no. Now I'm going to get that annoying blue bubble that all the chat mods get.

Ben

Like, mine is around the 60k mark? But the highest I have on any one site is on Arqade, which is just under 30K

@Axoren It doesn't happen that often

Axoren

That's good at least.

Not only does it mean no blue bubble, but it also means no trouble.

kviiri

Yeah, I dislike it too, but it's not very common at least.

The interface is also veeeery bad.

BESW

Most of the times I notice it, it's in a language I'm not fluent with.

Ben

Generally the guys on the site that's been flagged can handle it

Axoren

8:24 AM

I'm seriously trying to control myself and not post a message "You've been visited by the happy blue bubble of happiness" and then flag it.

Also, just caught up with what happened earlier yesterday(?). That must have been a lot of blue bubbles.

BESW

Not until it got really egregious. Experience has shown that we can't rely on other high-rep users to enforce this chat's standards of behavior.

At which point the mods were already involved, so the flags were more... for formality.

kviiri

@BESW They probably enjoy increased longevity.

Axoren

Big yikers.

kviiri

I hate how the chat flag only shows one message, too. It's often quite important to know the context.

Axoren

Especially if a user posts the offensive message across multiple enters.

V2Blast

8:35 AM

@BESW Same. I imagine the rest usually get handled too quickly for me to notice.

Axoren

Each message might get seen by different users and ignored.

kviiri

I've been in online communities that specifically ban non-English communication and enforce it with great zeal, because they have no resources to ensure non-English communication isn't full of bile.

V2Blast

Plus only spam/offensive flags get thrown to high-rep non-mod users like that - custom "flag for moderator" ones don't

kviiri

There's a point to that but I'm really glad I don't feel like I'd think that in here.

V2Blast

I just hit "not sure" on the ones for languages I don't speak

Axoren

8:37 AM

Facebook manages to get around it by just translating all messages into the language of their moderators

However, it leads to comical results when trying to comprehend slang

I translate the posts of a friend of mine from Taiwan and they are ALL over the place with what the Translation thinks he's saying, but he's usually talking about anime waifus in fighting games.

It has never once gotten it right.

V2Blast

lol

unrelated but on the topic of TTRPGs, I do have a request for help from y'all - help finding character art to use as a token image in Roll20

I will soon be playing Damakos, a male Zariel tiefling bard (planned College of Glamour) with the Faceless background in a *Baldur's Gate: Descent into Avernus* campaign, but I haven't yet settled on an image to use for my character token. Obviously I can basically use any generic tiefling art as a placeholder, but I'm hoping you all will be able to help me find that which I have not found on my own.

- When without his mask/costume, I'm thinking Damakos maybe has a few physical attributes vaguely reminiscent of Zariel's archdevil form. He's born to a tiefling female and a Calishite human m…

Axoren

For personal private games, I generally don't look far for character art. In many cases, I just take something close enough and add "glitz and glam" to it in paint.

Take a close enough Zariel and then draw a mask on it in MS Paint.

kviiri

@Axoren When Google translate started using neural networks, there were some really funny attempts to correctly parse some compound words in Finnish :P

It's a huge step forward that when it encounters a compound word it doesn't instantly recognize, it tries to parse it to determine its parts and therefore the meaning

Axoren

They probably weren't using Neural Networks with LSTM, which makes most context-sensitive sequence work almost impossible. Without a wide enough network, you will need memory units.

They probably just breakup compound words and edge-out other words in the sentence from being part of the network's input.

V2Blast

@Axoren lol

Axoren

8:44 AM

Which means you get REALLY long compound words making the network forget what it was even reading

Is this even worth a question? Would forcing a player to take 10 on all attacks as part of a curse be too good? or too weak for them?

Take 10 being d20 = 10 for all attack rolls.

kviiri

But... "liitoshitsaaja" which should be parsed as "liitos" (joint) "hitsaaja" (welder) to make "fitting welder" (I had to google the correct term) got at one point parsed as "liito-" (flying/gliding) in the front and "-saaja" (recipient) in the back, with some dirty word that it thought it shouldn't translate in between... :>

Axoren

Oh no.

Flying poo catcher!

Now, would that mean a poo catcher that flies? Or a catcher that catches flying poos?

kviiri

Bing Translate was also reaaaally zany at one point, in many different ways. One was that they apparently used Microsoft's documentation as corpus --- "wizard" got consistently translated in its "guided software process" meaning.

"You're a helpful program interface Harry"

3

And it translated a variety of Finnish place names as being "London" in English.

V2Blast

@kviiri are you sure this is not a direct quote from the movies

Powerdork

@Axoren An 11th-level ability I've seen in 3.5 D&D, Aura of Perfect Order (a Devoted Spirit stance from Tome of Battle) amounts to "once per round, decide that instead of rolling, you're going to take 11". This probably isn't worth the same in 5e because of bounded accuracy, but consider that predictability is worth something. Determine the kinds of monsters you'll be throwing at them and compare their attack bonus to the monsters' AC and try to envision how fights go.

Axoren

8:58 AM

@Powerdork There's a similar ability in Pathfinder, but much lower power and earlier accessible, call Touch of Law, which lets the target take 11 on all d20 rolls until the caster's next turn.

And there's a Magic Item in 5e that lets a player do this once per day

The idea of forcing it is what makes it a whole different ball game

It's no longer a risk-reward situation.

I think it's gonna be a lot harder to analyze once it gets into the "what monsters will I be throwing at them" because I feel like there's a feedback effect.

doppelgreener

9:26 AM

@KorvinStarmast they are actually starting up training programs! the recent blog posts talk about it.

The Oracle

11:59 AM

0

Q: Would asking for a comparison of 4e warlock pacts with 5e warlock patrons be opinion based?

I was planning on asking the following question: Does each warlock pact type from 4e have an equivalent in 5e? I know little of 4e, but am familiar with 5e. I know there are various types of pact in 4e and was interested to know what their equivalents would be in 5e. Of the little ...

discussion

Carcer

12:10 PM

@Powerdork for any well-built character the ability to take 11 on a raw attack roll probably translates to autohit in the vast majority of cases; my recollection of other people running the numbers is that in general you'd expect a character to hit appropriate enemies about two-thirds of the time

KorvinStarmast

@doppelgreener well that's neat! :-)

NautArch

2:11 PM

howdy howdy

kviiri

Hiya

NautArch

it just turned from rain to snow here. unexpectedly.

Rubiksmoose

Gross. We got a ton of snow last night, but "winter mix" is pretty much the worst.

NautArch

We've had a very low snow winter. been a bummer.

We bought a bunch of nerf stuff for a snow day surprise and haven't had one.

kviiri

Raagh, how come you guys get snow and we don't :(

OTOH at this time of the year, I think just skipping straight to springtime would be a passable option.

NautArch

2:19 PM

We also just got into skiing and I feel like I hit a bit of a groove last weekend. So no snow, warm weather, and rain is really reducing further ski opps.

nitsua60

@NautArch Gotta watch out when you hit a groove--can torque that ski in strange ways.

=)

KorvinStarmast

2:39 PM

The only serious injury I ever got skiing: a broken shoulder

AncientSwordRage

@Rubiksmoose I'd rather snow that melted than rain that froze

casts Control Weather

worries about how Dispell Magic works

Yuuki

@AncientSwordRage I imagine it works identically to Twin Spell.

AncientSwordRage

2:56 PM

@Yuuki not sure if reference to other questions or actual advice....

Yuuki

It's a reference to a typo for "dispell" -> "di-spell".

AncientSwordRage

@Yuuki facepalm

Dyslexia used 'Typo', it was super effective

KorvinStarmast

@Yuuki when Tatoo was on Fantasy Island and saw a spell being cast, he'd poke Mr Roarke and shout "Di Spell, Di Spell!"

(I wonder who is old enough to remember that show?)

AncientSwordRage

@KorvinStarmast I have read of this island

KorvinStarmast

3:15 PM

@AncientSwordRage I just found out that they released a movie this past month that remade Fantasy Island into a horror story. Weird coincidence

NautArch

3:26 PM

@nitsua60 hehe. I still really hate that feeling of one ski on ice.

Akixkisu

Does anybody else frequently get asked by new 5e players whether to apply their proficiency bonus to damage rolls?

NautArch

@Akixkisu yeah

Akixkisu

Dow we have a qa for that?

Maybe we should make one.

KorvinStarmast

there are many

NautArch

23

Q: How do I figure the dice and bonuses for attack rolls and damage rolls?

I'm building my character, a Half-Elf Ranger, and I'm a little confused about how to work out the attack bonus and the damage bonus. So, please tell me if I've got this right: I'm proficient with a longbow. That means my attack roll is 1d20 + prof bonus + Dex modifier. The damage roll however ...

dnd-5e damage attack attack-roll

Akixkisu

3:30 PM

Maybe then a dup for searchability.

Or not.

KorvinStarmast

not.

NautArch

yeah, i think it's not.

if someone asks it on their own, we would. But to self-generate when it hasn't actually ever been asked? That seems unnecessary.

Akixkisu

Probably no actual problem. I feel weird that I was asked by 3/4 new players seperatly today.

NautArch

I think it's a common question when starting to play.

Because you use for attacks, but no damage.

KorvinStarmast

@MikeQ Bordain

Akixkisu

3:35 PM

Yeah, I'm infinetly annoyed at the phrasing in the PHB.

Whoever wrote use the same modifier instead of use your ability modifier deserves no ice cream.

KorvinStarmast

@Akixkisu note to self: cancel the ice cream order for the WoTC coffee club

KorvinStarmast

4:15 PM

@doppelgreener can't thank you enough for your explanation on hazards in the close question thing. (On Meta SE) I guess Jeff's remarks from 8 or so years ago regarding help vampires and the dream of creating sites for experts is no longer canon.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast was the the same jeff whose name was a tag on the chat?

Yuuki

@KorvinStarmast it's almost as if experts don't appear magically out of thin air, spontaneously endowed with all the knowledge in the universe

@NautArch I want to say... probably?

Oh wait, actually I don't think so.

jeff, IIRC, was just an inside joke about placeholder names.

Nope, found it.

Dec 1 '16 at 10:35, by doppelgreener

something is weird with my site shortcuts in my browser:

GcL

@Yuuki Uhhh... Athena did.

Yuuki

4:31 PM

@GcL she appeared magically out of zeus's forehead, not out of thin air

GcL

@Yuuki That is a good point. However, given Zeus' track record of decisions, I think we can conclude his head is filled with hot air.

3

Yuuki

Although I suppose Zeus was a bit of a ditz, so maybe his skull counts as thin air?

GcL

@Yuuki Skull was thick. Contents were not.

Yuuki

I find it massively hilarious (and slightly disappointing) that whenever Hollywood tries to make a good vs. evil conflict with the Greek gods, they always pick evil to be the one major Greek god who wasn't a massive jerk (well, depending on how you interpret the Persephone myth).

doppelgreener

@KorvinStarmast was that the quality alarm post I wrote a few days ago?

GcL

4:38 PM

@Yuuki The OG interpretation is like a lot of old stories... a bit too rapey for my liking. I'm more of a fan of the modern interpretations that weren't like that. I think my favorite is, "I just want out of my Mom's house for a while, and Hades just being okay with being thrown under the bus."

doppelgreener

@NautArch Jeff Atwood, one of the founders of SO; no relation to Jeff, who is the chat

NautArch

@doppelgreener so many jeffs, so little time

Carcer

it's pronounced geff

doppelgreener

@Yuuki "zeus was a himbo" was not the discourse i expected to come across today in chat but it's discourse i didn't know i wanted to see

NautArch

ugh, i hate it when i can't find a document

Yuuki

4:44 PM

@doppelgreener Everyone knows that Athena's smarts came from Metis, given that Zeus thought that the best way to prevent a Cronos-esque uprising was to swallow his (well, Metis wasn't his wife... baby mama?) whole. Because that strategy worked so well for his father. Apple doesn't fall far from the tree, I suppose.

@GcL I'm not certain how I feel about the implication that winter is a result of severe empty nest syndrome, but it's certainly preferable over other interpretations of Hades and Persephone.

KorvinStarmast

@doppelgreener Your nicely upvoted answer to Theresa's post about the road map, and the concerns that you raised about SE/SO making the closing of questions private, since getting a question closed is so unfriendly ... etc. (I note that one of the mods has chimed in during comments to say there will some more granularity make known soon . ... Des?) sorry, meta SE, not our meta. And yeah, I liked your quality alarm post a lot. You put time and effort into that, and I think it paid off

GcL

@Yuuki I think it would bring attention to the impacts of family dispersal on the mental health of parents.

doppelgreener

@KorvinStarmast ahhh, right! thank you. and yeah, it seems the quality alarm post paid off well :')

KorvinStarmast

@Yuuki The question to ask going forward: how do you incentivize experts to share their expertise, for which they are paid 50, 100, and more bucks per hour IRL, for free?

Jeff and Joel and the original cadre figured some of it out, and more folks added bits to that.

doppelgreener

i'm going to leave it be until they demonstrate how they're actually going to implement it, and i'm sure they will get some very ... polarised responses. and then i'll probably suggest they need to A/B test it.

and yeah, one of the engineers, Des, is engaging. which i'm happy about.

GcL

4:52 PM

@KorvinStarmast Probably start with discovery of why they are providing it for free when they do. What are the mechanisms behind the behavior and provide interventions that impact those mechanisms.

doppelgreener

i'd reached out internally about my concerns, and staff asked me to share them in a public post, which i did, so i'm happy it's being taken on board well

@KorvinStarmast regarding that site for experts thing: i think that concept was already going away in 2013ish once they did a double-take and realised the broader stack exchange network was also largely for hobbyists, and everything was still working for fine. "experts" at that point had already been redefined from "people who had years of professional experience and/or a degree" to "people who were interested and knowledgeable on a subject".

KorvinStarmast

@doppelgreener yes and I think we have defined it that here for our purposes on RPGSEMeta. But for the professional stacks, is that the case?

doppelgreener

yeah, i mean, it was being generally redefined like that everywhere. there was definitely some friction though. like continental plates colliding.

GcL

@KorvinStarmast SO was the first and university degrees nor certifications make an expert for programming.

KorvinStarmast

@GcL I never mentioned either a degree nor a cert, so I am not sure where you were going with that. Expert car mechanics don't need degrees either.

doppelgreener

5:00 PM

part of the factor was that, if SO really is just a site for experts, then who's asking half of the questions? not the experts. and even an expert on one subject will be a dunce as they start on a new technology—and they still need to be able to ask questions too, and may be doing no better than a university first-year on the topic.

so there was a bit of "hmmmm. i guess ... we're not just for experts? yeah, okay, let's roll with that."

GcL

You were remarking on the redefinition mentioned by doppel
>"been redefined from "people who had years of professional experience and/or a degree" to "people who were interested and knowledgeable on a subject"
Further asking "But for the professional stacks, is that the case?"

KorvinStarmast

Ah, makes sense, I wasn't around for that period of stuff ...

Yuuki

@GcL As someone with a university degree and working on a certification, can confirm that I am not an expert in programming.

KorvinStarmast

@GcL I wasn't asking about the degrees nor certs. I was asking about expert versus enthusiast

FWIW, I massively reduced my participation at AviationSE for that very reason. The number of actual experts is few, the amount or rubbish is high, and no few high rep users post utter tosh.

doppelgreener

yeah it was basically a period of re-evaluating and realising that when you've got a lot of beginners and hobbyists learning from your sites, and they were actually doing really really well, then the definition of "experts for experts" wasn't actually correlated to the practice anymore. so there was a big difference between the theory and the practice, and they resolved that by embracing the new status quo.

AncientSwordRage

5:03 PM

@KorvinStarmast islam SE also struggles with that

doppelgreener

there are a lot of stacks struggling with that kind of issue, yeah :(

AncientSwordRage

I keep meaning to go on a strict flagging/downvoting spree, but I can rarely be motivated

KorvinStarmast

@doppelgreener thanks for explaining that, makes sense.

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doppelgreener

@KorvinStarmast you're welcome!

AncientSwordRage

5:04 PM

the answers were often "Here what I think, but seek a Shiekhs advice" or "Here's an unrelated hadith I haven't explained"

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Akixkisu

5:31 PM

@doppelgreener I always wonder why instead of "closed" it isn't displayed as something less negatively connotated like "On Hold".

doppelgreener

@Akixkisu SE actually trialled that for a while and it helped

seems they reverted that change again recently, not sure why

GcL

@Akixkisu Pending Reopening. Awaiting Refinement. On Deck to be the Best Question it can be.

Rubiksmoose

@doppelgreener I think they responded to a query about that on the post notices announcement. Not in a place to easily look it up but IIRC their numbers and studies showed no change in response except more confusion about what it actually meant.

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@GcL Gestating

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5:36 PM

@KorvinStarmast I like that one. Has a very squishy organic feel.

doppelgreener

@Rubiksmoose huh, okay.

Akixkisu

@Rubiksmoose that is to be expected by older users, how long was that rial?

doppelgreener

@Akixkisu six years ish

255

Q: Closing changes: [on hold], unclear, too broad, opinion-based, off-topic reasons, bye-bye to Too Localized

After a ton of discussion, work and input from the community, we're rolling out the remainder of major closing changes that you've helped us design, as discussed in these prior posts. They're live, network-wide RIGHT NOW!!! See also: http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2013/06/the-war-of-the-closes/ ...

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from around the time of this post (mid 2013) until sometime in the last few months, less than a year

Rubiksmoose

> Where did the "On Hold" label go?
"On Hold" had been used to label recently closed questions. The idea was that this language would imply less permanence to the current state than "Closed". However, user research showed that this distinction was generally found to be confusing to users at all levels, and did not seem to have an effect on reopen rates. So we have removed this label. All Closed posts are now labeled as Closed but only the label has changed. Edits within the first five days will still put the question in the reopen queue.

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doppelgreener

questions were marked "on hold" instead of "closed" for the first week a question was closed

Rubiksmoose

5:41 PM

Found it^

Akixkisu

Ah reopen rate is such a bad metric.

Why didn't they look into user retainment rates?

Rubiksmoose

Yeah the "on-hold" thing had been in place already when I joined.

KorvinStarmast

@Akixkisu agree. Some things need to stay closed.

Akixkisu

I have no idea why you would expect reopen rate to go up when what you want to achieve is to retain users/encourage them to not get discouraged by immediate shut-down.

doppelgreener

@Akixkisu because reopen rate was the issue. the community was noticing an issue with people just giving up on closed questions sometimes and not trying to get them reopened.

@Akixkisu increasing the reopen rate was the actual goal of that change

Akixkisu

5:45 PM

@doppelgreener ah, too bad.

doppelgreener

it was not a change made for user retention

Rubiksmoose

Huh I'm not sure I was ever aware that that was the reason for the change. I guess that would handily explain their choice of metric. Though, I'm not sure they should have changed it just because it failed that goal...

KorvinStarmast

I chuckled, but I think this was one of the best meta SE answers ever - as I wander through review queues on six different sites now, those three thoughts still pop into my head ...

Yuuki

@Rubiksmoose ... so the 'on hold' label is on hold?

KorvinStarmast

@Yuuki I think it's in the penalty box

for holding

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Rubiksmoose

6:32 PM

@Yuuki You might say that lol

doppelgreener

7:04 PM

@KorvinStarmast that was pretty funny

MikeQ

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goodguy5

@MikeQ I said "bota box" earlier, but I clearly meant "bento box"

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Not a bar, but plays one on TV

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