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12:09 AM
Oath of Independent Creation Paladin over here.
12:20 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, bad keyword with email in answer, bad phone number in answer, email in answer, pattern-matching email in answer, +1 more (448): Can you use Sublime Chord spell slots to cast Bard spells known from your Bard class (or vice-versa)? by morgan obe on rpg.SE
Wow, spamming love guru advertisements on an RPG Q&A forum...
Targeted advertising much?
Fairly certain we're living a different time rather than still living in basements.
12:40 AM
We get some interesting spam. Spellcasting services and vampirism services(?) are relatively common
I heard those services suck.
Eye rolls intensify
1:07 AM
I definitely wonder how their website trolling (like a boat) works.

Something that can skim the internet for words and then alert people to make posts.

It's a short skip to auto submitting for sweepstakes and the like
In our case, we have the flawed perspective of an anti-survivor bias.
Because here? Those posts do not survive.
However, on the websites where they DO survive, they last long enough to attract some small percentage of the website's population.
@goodguy5 Is the word not "trawling"?
Or not even the website's population, but they might actually catch people from Google search, simply catching the keywords on an already existing well-SEO'd site.
@Someone_Evil yea, you right.
but Trolling is also a thing, just with lines, instead of nets, so I guess either works, but I was thinking net.
The people who invented the internet loved phishing metaphors.
1:12 AM
All about the dial up
1:31 AM
@NautArch Have you tried Forbidden Island? Much easier to win. Desert, we haven't won yet. Island, I don't think we've lost yet.
Desert is hard.

Forbidden Skies is wild.
You think you're doing well, and then all of a sudden everything goes pear shaped
2:01 AM
ugh. A while back, someone in a D&D facebook group gave an open invitation to join their dndbeyond campaign, to get access to the full rules. I've now been removed from their campaign, so only have my own content again :( I think I'll have to buy all the sourcebooks on there eventually, I definitely made use of it while I had it.
2:13 AM
Hi. Been making lots of chain mail
@Adeptus you pointed me to FireBear, I think? You saw about their van?
@Adeptus rough.
2:43 AM
@Adeptus Only played Desert, found it satisfyingly difficult but susceptible to alpha-player syndrome. Thinking about how it would work if we adopted a rule that you can only talk when it's your turn.
Okay. I have 11 hours to finish and submit Puppy Day. Realistically... it's 1pm now and I've gotta be out the door to pick up my dad by 4:45 if I have any hope of missing the Friday traffic. [grimaces]
2:59 AM
@Adeptus You're good with licenses like that? I know DDI shut down just a couple months back, and the 3.5 web article archive not long after. What's to say DDB's going to stick around once 5e's settled and Wizards of the Coast moves on?
The DDI was effectively dead for years before it officially shuttered last year; after 5e came out you couldn't start a subscription to DDI, or renew a lapsed subscription, you could only use DDI if you had a continuous subscription dating from before 5e.
Right, but at least they were still making good on their agreement with subscribers up to that point.
(And I suspect it was pretty broken and unuseable, honestly. Even during 4e's prime it would break every time Silverlight updated and they'd take days to update DDI to work with the new Silverlight. Silverlight's been unsupported by Microsoft Edge, Chrome, and Firefox since 2017.)
So I don't know what you got from your DDI subscription for the last couple years.
3:31 AM
Q: Haste and Casting a New Concentration Spell

RandomorphA spellcaster currently concentrating on haste on themselves sees a situation unfolding that desperately requires them to concentrate on another spell, for example, hypnotic pattern. They move and take their action to start casting the new spell. However, concentration on a spell begins once you...

4:08 AM
@BlackSpike Yep, unfortunate.
@Powerdork I didn't know the 3.5 archive had gone (but I think I downloaded most of it when I was still playing 3.5)
Got anything to contribute to community archival efforts?
Don't know, where are the efforts being coordinated? I can see if I can help with anything
4:39 AM
Okay, my group wants to take a survey
Who here has played Water Deep: Dragon Heist?
And whose group decided to reincarnate
How do I spoiler in Chat?
Xanathar, in our universe, is now a hot Tiefling woman with class levels.
you can do a pseudo-spoiler using the link markup... spoiler
[spoiler](http://like-this "like this")
We are yet unsure about if we have made a horrible mistake.
At least our wizard feels safer with Xanathar on the loose, than in his ring.
On the plus side, with Xanathar not being a Beholder anymore, his dreams can't spawn more Beholders.
5:03 AM
@Axoren We did, but spoiler
Umm, okay, so we sort of became our own villain organization...
By accident?
It's totally not our fault.
So, we've pretty much wiped out... all factions...
But we just ended up reviving an entire ... competitor?
Ours is more of a comedy of errors
The villains were in your character sheets all along
The real treasure villains were the friends you made along the way
2 hours later…
6:52 AM
Puppy Day by BESW for #PleasantDreamJam. Visit the Friendporium, a fantastical rescue shelter specializing in unusual animals!
3 hours later…
9:58 AM
[flails with embarrassed delight] Udernation said very nice things about Puppy Day.
10:41 AM
@BESW awwwww. that's lovely. (here they are!)
oh nice
1 hour later…
11:46 AM
@NathanS Just FYI, I'd be happy to talk 4e warlock stuff here if you'd like. o/ There's also some other people as well who know way, way more about 4e warlocks than I do.
I know less o/ but I can still halp
The new update to Affinity has SO MANY WONDERFUL THINGS. [rolls around happily]
Document merging, resource collecting, a Stock panel in Designer, IDML importing, preflight, non-destructive Booleans, smart master pages, cross-app templates!
12:22 PM
@Adeptus I know @NautArch has a DDB campaign that we originally used for our ToA campaign, and I guess now we just sort of use for content sharing... but unfortunately, right now there already seem to be 12 users with characters in the "campaign". Dunno if everyone actively makes use of it.
unrelated to that...
who all has played the TTRPG? (I haven't, but I did get it when it was free for a day, I think)
I've looked into it for inspiration for my own Bike Sleuths concoction, it was too 80s nostalgia for my tastes to actually play though.
@doppelgreener Thanks. I've just been reading the "Performing the Pact" link (from this answer, the link is down but I found it elsewhere), specifically the page about Dark Pacts and Yorgrix.
Before I ask anything on the main site, as you said before, it's best I look into it myself first. So besides that Dragon Magazine, where else would be a good source of material on Dark Pacts from 4e (my focus is more on lore than gameplay, since I have no idea how 4e gameplay works)?
@BESW Thanks, I'll give that a read.
I'm also interested in Star Pact as I'm planning on making a GOO warlock in 5e and was planning on something like Hadar or Ulban, etc, as my patron.
There's not much on the Dark Pact; it's from Forgotten Realms expansion material so there's very little lore compared to elements that are part of the main 4e setting "Points of Light."
12:33 PM
Hmm, that thread you linked to, most of them claim that it has a lot to do with the Shadowfell, but that Dragon Magazine is talking about the Underdark almost exclusively, so I'm tempted to not believe them about the Shadowfell...
And 4e never seemed very interested in fleshing out the Underdark much anyway, but I think the most important thing to understand about 4e lore is that there's no "canon" or attempt to be perfectly consistent or coherent. The 4e approach to lore was to agree on the big points but disagree on the details so that each group/GM had more explicit permission to make the setting their own.
Fair enough, that makes sense.
The worldedges are especially thin between the Shadowfell and Underdark.
4e is the kind of place where it's reasonable if unsettling to find that you accidentally walked from one plane to another, if the place and time are right.
@Carcer This is about 1/4 of my D&D 4e campaign, yes.
But Star Pacts, there's some fun stuff there. A Star Pact means you've entered into a relationship with a being or beings from beyond the regular universe, not from any plane but from the space where planes aren't.
The beings from the Far Realm that we know about, peer into the world as malevolent stars in the night sky, and they seem to be antagonistic to all life within the planes but unable to enter to do us harm directly. Instead they corrupt mortal beings to create abominations like mind flayers which work toward the Far Realm's unknown goals. And sometimes they offer power in the form of a warlock pact, or a warlock thinks that she's figured out how to control their power.
12:40 PM
Yeah, that adds up with what I was reading from the "Wish Upon a Star" pdf (again the link in the answer I linked to above is down, but I found it elsewhere), and there's a little more about Ulban specifically in the other link.
4e's lore is deliberately vague about what the Far Realm and its inhabitants actually are.
Sep 13 '16 at 11:58, by BESW
> In my version of the Points of Light setting, all the multiverse that is the Points of Light reality is a tiny sliver of coherency in the vast indefinable body of the Far Realm. The Far Realm responds to it the way our bodies would a foreign object: automatic responses engage to simultaneously destroy, encapsulate, and expel it.
That's what aberrations, and horrific fates handed down by malevolent stars, and Star Pact warlocks, and all of that stuff, are: various kinds of auto-immune effects that sometimes work together and sometimes at cross purposes in response to an unwelcome body. It
@NathanS 4e's approach to lore is "we don't know what really happened, but here's how people are telling it. There's several versions and they're probably all wrong."
I don't get the reference.
@doppelgreener Yeah, I'm starting to get a sense of that. I think those two Dragon Magazine excepts I found are probably the most I'm going to find on these Pacts (Dark and Star are the two I'm most interested in)...
12:45 PM
I did a lot of research into Star Pacts during my campaign; they were the Big Bad Behind The Scenes of a world-spanning war between empires.
it's the very beginning of Gurren Lagann; there's a line of a dialogue in the scene at that point along the lines of "So, all the lights in the heavens are our enemies"
I'll see if I can dig up any notes from... eight years ago...
The only mentions of Ulban I'm finding are in Wish Upon a Star, Performing the Pact, and Star Crossed. But I have notes toward themes and aesthetics...
> Ulban: blue-white comet, disrupts thought, prevents recognizing danger; foretells tragedy (causes chaos and tragedy, prevents self-preservation) (radiant)
@BESW Star Crossed?
@NathanS it's my favourite feature of the lore, since it gives the group a lot of freedom but also a lot of stimulus :)
@NathanS Star Pact Hexblades, Dragon 393
12:50 PM
@BESW Thanks, I'll see if I can track that down and check that out too.
I'll give you the only mention of Ulban, if you like.
Sure, thanks
And this is from an in-universe list of "strange constellations:"
I had a couple of Star Pact character ideas.
One was someone who was absolutely terrified of the stars but hoped that if he served them well, they'd ruin him last.
Another was a star-gazer who didn't think the Far Realm beings were real; she was convinced that her powers came from "practical astrology," which was the purely rational and scientific study of how the stars affect daily life.
Thanks for that, this should help with my GOO warlock (who is my attempt at trying to make what I think a Star Pact warlock would look like in 5e). Funnily enough, my character sounds like somewhere in between your two characters; an astrologer who "caught something's attention" and is now terrified of them... haven't figured out all the details yet, still work-in-progress...
that concept is pretty great and is elevated to maximum tier if she makes constant jokes about her enemies having bad horoscopes
12:56 PM
So, am I right in saying that, in 4e, there were 5 pacts; Fey, Infernal, Star, Dark and Vestige? Have I missed any?
Sorcerer-King Pacts were exclusive to the Dark Sun setting, and there were also Elemental and Gloom pacts.
Gloom pacts are made with powerful patrons from the Shadowfell, and Elemental Pacts draw on the power of the Primordials deep in the Elemental Chaos.
I see. I'm getting more of a handle on Dark and Star now, and Fey and Infernal make sense to me already as 5e has Archfey and Fiend, but Vestige, Sorcerer-King, Elemental and Gloom...
(Primordials are the creator beings of the universe, elementals of pure chaos; they fashioned the planes over and over according to their whims, until they accidentally created gods which imprisoned them in order to prevent the planes (and thus also the gods) from being destroyed and remade again.)
Ah yes, so Gloom is basically the Shadowfell, which is what 5e is attempting with the Hexblade? Or a better example perhaps is the UA Raven Queen patron.

Elemental is probably more like their recent UA Noble Genie, although not necessarily restricted to a genie (could be the elemental princes from the EE campaign, for example)
Sorcerer-Kings are the most powerful beings in the godless Dark Sun setting, despotic and nigh-immortal arcane casters in a world where arcane magic is literally death magic. To make so intimate a pact with a Sorcerer-King as to draw on their power, marks you as desperate or foolish or greedy and definitely not someone anybody else wants to be seen around.
Vestige warlocks don't pledge themselves to any particular patron, but instead draw on the spiritual remnants of great ancestral heroes and leaders to manifest vestiges of those ancestors' great capacities.
1:03 PM
I see, so the idea behind the Sorcerer-King patron is "what if an arcane caster accumulated so much power that they are on par with the sorts of creatures that warlocks form pacts with?
And vestige patrons are spirits, as in ghosts? I wonder if I could compare them to the Undying patron of 5e?
Yeah. And also they're the warring rulers of city-states in a Mad Max wasteland.
Vestige patrons are... not really patrons. You're tapping into the arcane echoes of great deeds and legendary heroes, but you can't have a chat with them.
I see, so it's more like siphoning power rather than "a deal" in the more traditional sense?
Mechanically Vestige warlocks work very differently, you get to choose a particular personality that you're going to channel and that defines yours powers, but you can swap out personalities between scenes depending on what you anticipate needing.
Think of a vestige warlock as... a battle psychic, like a medium holding a seance to ask ghosts questions... but instead they're channeling the ghosts of ancient warriors to help the warlock know how to kick butt.
1:07 PM
They're Mulan
Ha! I read Mulan and thought "what, they're Red Wizards?", then realised you probably meant the film(s). I've been thinking about D&D too much recently...
...I still want to figure out a solid premise for a game where Points of Light style warlocks use Bubblegumshoe relationship mechanics.
But that's on the back burner. Right now I'm torn between revising Goblin Court to leave space for it to be a Space Goblins! prequel and making a guide for moving your Goblin Court characters into Space Goblins!, or maybe going back and tackling Great Ork Gods again and trying to re-frame that awesome mechanic with a better narrative context.
And I've still got Traveling Librarians to write as a game system, since right now it's just a campaign guide, but I'm waiting on a friend to do research for that.
And there's Long Live the King of Monsters! which is still in deep freeze while I try to figure out what's wrong with it.
@BESW Anyway, thank you. This has been immensely helpful. Hopefully I'll be able to come up with a couple of cool ideas for Star Pact style GOO warlock and an I-don't-know-yet Dark Pact style warlock in 5e.
1:15 PM
@NathanS Good luck! Let us know how it goes, please.
@goodguy5 hwat hwich?
@BESW what is points of light style
What we've been talking about above, the whole idea that warlock pacts can be many different kinds of things, relationships with all kinds of patrons are possible.
Imagine a game where warlocks are Friendship Magicians.
1:45 PM
@BESW well that recontextualises twilight sparkle huh
It's pretty much text in the show, eh.
@Carcer I really need to get this stylized into a canvas painting.
I meant more the idea that TS is snort a Celestia-l pact warlock
I imagine I am very late to this party don't worry
I've reread the entire conversation again and I still can't figure out what "Points of Light style" means.

Unless you're synonyming with "stars"
@goodguy5 it refers to the generic setting used in 4e D&D
1:48 PM
ah ha. gotcha
"Points of Light" is the unofficial name of the un-named default D&D 4e setting.
did not know that
which is "Points of Light" because the general idea is that there are little beacons of civilisation set amongst a vast wilderness, aiui
Yup, the Mortal Plane is depicted as being plunged into a period of dangerous wilderness after the recent fall of a large empire, with only small towns and occasional city-states providing "points of light" in the darkness.
2:02 PM
Points of Light style warlocks, I imagine, being Warlocks in D&D 4e's style, but the ones from the Points of Light setting, not the ones from the Dark Sun or Forgotten Realm expansion materials or etc.
As a non-native English speaker, my first encounters with the term "warlock" itself were somewhat confusing
It's like a lock but a war
You use a warlock to get your armies to higher ground.
The "Speak the Sky broke their damn finger" Sale is over in less than two days! 1/3 off, since 1/3 of my digits on that finger are broken.
@BESW no, that's a waterlock. You mean a warthog
When I was a young wart hog.....
2:07 PM
I did this meme wrong
shame upon my descendants
Shame upon your cow!
A War Thog is a terrifying idea.
How about some Klingon War Big Birds?
@V2Blast There are two people in the campaign that I don't know who they are. Usernames are user-100356421 (character gerrick grimborn) and user Trihan (character sable elwynn). I'm not sure if the prior is still active or not given the username.
2:36 PM
@V2Blast I don't really understand the bounty on my UA question. If you know something new/different, it may be better to put up your own answer.
I would assume the way D&DBeyond removes UA from their site to constitute "reburying" it. It removes it from the view (and general availability) of a number of people
What UA has been removed from DDB without being replaced with official published content?
basically they've made some UA options unavailable at WotC's request
2:51 PM
@Carcer boo!
I mean, they took playtest material that feedback is no longer gathered on away from being integrated into a platform. That's fair isn't it?
Oh, I don't think anybody is saying it's unfair.
I was specifically asking for references so I could link them and address the futility of it. :)
I play/run exclusively DDAL, so don't pay much attention to UA.
imo it is a frustrating thing for them to do
I don't really see what the point is, so long as all the UA options are clearly marked as being UA
3:07 PM
D&D beyond is already quite lackluster in distinguishing content availability and what it belongs to. The less they have to do it on, the better.
Or, actually. UA is the only thing they mark out clearly, though it may have been better if it defaulted to be hidden
@Someone_Evil Why remove some and not others though? Are they only removing those that get released? If so, are they removing all the ones that get released?
Artificer is no longer available as the UA version (that's the one I noticed)
@Someone_Evil It's good enough to pay for now, so don't offer the free stuff?
Yeah, I can't imagine they'd keep the old version of a published option up (and AFAIK they haven't), and the Brute has already been given as an example of never-released-but-removed-from-DDB. I'm sure there are more examples, but I'm not feeling like trawling through UA's for them (at least not quite yet)
@Someone_Evil huh, I guess I expected them to keep that stuff up.
Which may have been a silly expectation.
3:29 PM
question, in pathfinder can creatures with the plant type have a mostly human appearance? Just with some plants growing out of them
Is there any reason it shouldn't be possible?
because pathfinder described them as humanoid vegetable shaped creatures
types / subtypes on the srd says "This type comprises vegetable creatures. Note that regular plants, such as one finds growing in gardens and fields, lack Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores; even though plants are alive, they are objects, not creatures."
the race builder on the srd says: This type encompasses humanoid-shaped vegetable creatures. Note that regular plants, such as those found in ordinary gardens and fields, lack Wisdom and Charisma scores and are not creatures, but objects, even though they are alive.
so along the same lines minus the humanoid part and the race build seems to assume your building a humanoid race
It's probably worth asking this on main. We have some very knowledgable users on PF, who do not frequent chat (at least not often enough that I have caught them here)
3:53 PM
> 9th level spell: rain whiskey.
It’s meteor swarm, but with whiskey.
Unless there is an open flame, then it is meteor swarm.
4:20 PM
So I was thinking how you shouldn't ask a question unless there's some clear way to determine when an answer is better or worse than any other. So how do edition comparison questions fit in there without becoming POB? Just realizing that what somebody included in an edition comparison answer is entirely based on what they wanted to include and am trying to figure out why that's not just opinion dictating what is and isn't worth mentioning. I think I'm missing something somewhere...
Would an answer not be good if it accurately describes the differences between the edition?
Isn't what's different just opinion?
well, no
Oh that's my question: Why aren't lists of difference simply opinion, or rather, how can you decide if one is better than another?
there are differences and they are factual
4:23 PM
If one edition uses d20's and another d12's that's an objective difference. Which is better would be opinion
answers can be judged on how well they describe the important differences between things
I guess, I just find "the important differences" cannot be agreed upon (is just opinion)
Though that's fair. I guess I can judge just based on how much I agree and if there's some thing I feel is "missing", leave a comment
but any one person can still evaluate the answers based on how well they think it describes what they think is important
4:25 PM
Important is a judgement which can be done by experts. If answer would problematically differ because of opinion we need to close it
I must admit I'm not in love with POB Close as a concept and while I agree that there are some questions of that mould we can't usefully answer I feel it sometimes shuts down perfectly good questions
@Someone_Evil Which (in my experience) sometimes isn't clear until some answers come in and we see that in play.
@Carcer i think most POB are really just needing more details.
@nitsua60 I've been advocating that too, including cases where it already has a good (non-opinion based) answer
4:52 PM
@Carcer Just close it as off-topic.
"Primarily opinion-based" -> "POB" -> "pretty off base" -> "off-topic"
Piece of Bread
usage: "That guy's a real piece of bread"
> Polonium oxide biscuit
Pork or Beef
Usage: Wedding entree options
no vegetarian options? get with the times, the future is now, old man
@Yuuki *Pork, Oranges, Beef
5:26 PM
@Someone_Evil Yeah: maybe it's me experience as a classroom teacher, but I always lean toward letting the answers that come in help me understand what was actually asked by a question =)
(Last week I handed back a quiz on which the median # of problems right was zero. Another teacher gasped at that and said "what do you take away from that!?" My response: "they still have more to learn from this piece of paper." So they worked on it for a while, partnered up, then took it home, then re-submitted.)
Q: What are the repercussions of being able to finish a short rest in only 10 minutes instead of taking 1 hour?

MołotCurrently we are playing a horror adventure in D&D 5e. Due to circumstances (beings locked in a haunted house, rooms changing just when we close the doors, etc.), a 1-hour rest is hardly possible. Our DM ruled that short rests can be as short as 10 minutes. The obvious result is that we can take...

@HotRPGQuestions It's called a "power nap," and I highly recommend it.
5:43 PM
Horror's more effective when you aren't in an equal or greater power level than the antagonists.
5:57 PM
@nitsua60 I find myself physically unable to "power nap"
Either I don't sleep, or I sleep for 45 minutes.
6:11 PM
@goodguy5 I literally just did power nap =)
18 minutes after lunch, basically every day. On the rare day that I don't fall asleep, even just lying quietly and stilling my mind for a bit has a wonderfully rejuvenating effect.
I do find that taking a mental break is heplful
@goodguy5 Luckily my workplace is set up to have eight 45-minute mental break times per day, with five-minute flurries of activity inbetween =)
1 hour later…
7:25 PM
@nitsua60 Hey, wait, that sounds awfully familiar... Bob, is that you???
7:47 PM
boooo. my city is trying to collect my money!
but wrongly
@NautArch @Someone_Evil and @Carcer figured out what I meant. In addition to DDB retiring some stuff, I know there have been some Crawford tweets about not moving forward with certain UA, and general responses about old UA saying that if something last appeared in UA over 2 years ago, it probably won't get published in its current form as is. Wasn't sure if there were other such statements I'd missed.
@Someone_Evil I think the others retired alongside Brute were the one main instance of DDB retiring UA content without it getting published. There's also instances like Viashino (I think), etc., that appeared in UA clearly meant for a certain book but didn't get published in that book like all the other races that were in there.
I'm suddenly very frustrated about a new user
Viashino would have been for Ravnica
@nitsua60 I wish I could take those...
@Someone_Evil ye
@Powerdork Is there anything you would like advice on, or just trying to vent?
8:00 PM
This one user appeared on the site in one of my watched tags and keeps posting questions about their own circumstance, which is fine and normal use of the site, except the latest question is just second-guessing answers to the question before it,
and I feel that I gave a very instructive answer
8:12 PM
I don't know enough about the system to determine if it's a duplicate
Well to start with, the heart of the question is "Can a psionic-but-no-manifesting creature use psionic powers?" Which is pretty much where the previous question left off, "Is there a "feat" or other way that allows Aegis to use Psionic Powers?"
Then all the rest of the new question is about game elements brought up in answers to the previous.
8:27 PM
Looks like another XY problem case. User means to ask X, but they ask Y. When they get answers to Y, they're dissatisfied because those answers don't address X. It happens. Best to wait for the user to clarify what they meant in the first place.
1 hour later…
9:38 PM
Q: Is this question about invisibility a list question?

Baskakov_DmitriyIt turned out that there are multiple 1st-level abilities that make their user invisible, and that's why this question has 3 answers as of now, all of them showing a way to get invisibility at level 1. I believe that more of them can potentially appear in the future. Should this question henc...

1 hour later…
10:42 PM
[wakes up to +90 rep from a seven-year-old question and winning a free-copy-of-a-TRPG contest he didn't technically enter]
That doesn't sound like a bad morning
And I realized the party I'm going to is potluck, but I have time to make brownies.
@BESW That's better than waking up from being headbutted in the midsection by a toddler, but maybe not as good as waking up from a toddler snuggling in with you.
I opened a ko-fi page with the intent to use it as a writing exercise and someone dropped $15 on it without comment and I'm not sure how I should handle it
10:56 PM
@BESW yay brownies!
11:42 PM
@Powerdork Point them in my direction! :D my ko-fi page hasn't even had 15 views, never mind $15!!
I'm trying not to go on a Twitter-rage again :( i think it's only because I know the company is closed that is stopping me ... :(

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