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12:00 AM
It's not about what era you're from. It's about what you said and how you said it.
I really need to watch the new She-Ra. (And finish Kipo, and Steven Universe, and and and and why are there so many awesome cartoons)
@Ash Oh man, you should definitely finish Kipo!
How far in are you? :)
@V2Blast thats the constant reply
He-Man is about to also get a reboot, so you're going to see just as much talk about it too once that happens
12:02 AM
(also a mild, immature giggle)
@doppelgreener I'm looking forward to it!
@V2Blast partway through episode 4, I think
Has anyone seen Lucifer or any other of the "is the bad guy really that bad of a guy?" movies/shows?
I'd love a Skeletor version
@goodguy5 absolutely
ok so just so i know the sn... word is a no no. Are refrences to generations by there accepted title names also a nono?
12:03 AM
Also, up until about a month ago I'd had a Skeletor avatar since Halloween, in case that helps clear things up
@JeffreyWitty It's not necessarily the word or label. Context is important.
@JeffreyWitty I think if you try to word police this it's not going to work out well. Just...speak with compassion.
@JeffreyWitty you could even say it's a sno-sno word
@Ash more word prevention
@goodguy5 I saw the first episode of Lucifer and found the character unwatchably annoying.
12:04 AM
I dont want to be "that guy"
@MarkWells This.
@JeffreyWitty there is not anything there about you mentioning generations, but there is something there about the value of not making sweeping generalisations
really, all you have to do is sincerely try not to be "that guy". the rest takes care of itself.
@BESW Heehee, look at my and my amazing powers of making people embarrass themselves, it's hilarious.
I find this so awkward, not being aloud to speak due to peoples "personal truths"
12:06 AM
@MarkWells I actually really enjoyed the character and the show for what it was, but (as someone raised going to church) found the feeling of the devil being a sympathetic character to be unsettling.
@goodguy5 There are two kinds of "bad guy isn't so bad" revision stories. There's the kind that justifies liking problematic source material uncritically, and there's the kind that critiques unquestioned assumptions in the source material. Unfortunately the former is a lot more prevalent...
bro, at this point, it feels like you're looking for something to complain about.

Just say what's on your mind, except nicely (ish).
@JeffreyWitty That's fair. These chats include folks from many different backgrounds (by generation, geography, identity, etc), so moments of culture clash happen. However they are resolvable if folks involved are willing to listen to each other. One group may overlook certain topics whereas another group may take that topic very seriously.
but I think I will resign myself to the questions so I dont get a bad rep
open talk has too many wildcard factors these days
12:11 AM
@SmokeDetector rolled the culprit edit back
You don't need to like the She-Ra reboot. Many folks here enjoy it but you won't be faulted for not liking a TV show.
With regards to the heman reboot, isn't Hamill voicing skeletor?
@Shalvenay Well that was mildly stressful
@BESW Lucifer feels like a third kind: the kind that picks an element of the source material, discards its context entirely, and drops it into an unrelated story. (That said, I'm not entirely sure what the source material is; I heard it's supposed to be Sandman but from the little I saw, he looks like Generic Pop Culture Lucifer.)
@NautArch it was mentioned here, yes
12:18 AM
"Delete it"
"well, other users might find it useful"
@JeffreyWitty -- I rolled your last edit to your question back since it kinda trashed the question. if you were trying to make a meaningful edit to it, go ahead and try again
@MarkWells Yeah, it's "We wanted to do Sandman but that stuff's nuanced and we're in the era of make-everything-a-crime-show."
@Ben -- I was more thinking that the user might have had a cat vs. keyboard moment or the likes
@AndrasDeak oh haha! Well, that still makes me very happy.
It looks like it just got edited again
12:19 AM
I think they're actually trying to get rid of it. He keeps rolling it back to that edit. They've just done it again
Might need to protect it?
And they are doing similar to other posts of theirs.
@BESW At least when that show was called Elementary the guy was messed up in an interesting way.
Which is to say, I know about it and I could've only picked that up here :)
Protection wouldn't do anything, locking would
@MarkWells Honestly I watched Elementary for Lucy Liu and not much else.
12:20 AM
Flagging all of these for mod intervention.
@Ben I merely wisg to scrub myself from cite. Seems my opinion is not welcom. I will leave, but I want my content off the site 100% — Jeffrey Witty 1 min ago
@BESW yeah, she's why I stuck with it as long as I did.
Kinda like how I watched White Collar for Diahann Carroll.
Well, that escalated quickly
There was a discussion recently about content ownership on the site... is there a meta for this? Or is it in the help section?
12:22 AM
Lucy Liu was indeed fantastic.
Are you thinking of the licence update?
They want "all of their content removed". The thing is, it's not "their" content. Once you post on the site, the content belongs to the site
I think @V2Blast was part of that conversation?
All your thoughts are belong to us
12:24 AM
Specifically this bit: "What happens to my content? Can I request it be deleted as well?
Content you've posted on the site is owned by you, but licensed to Stack Exchange, and you therefore cannot request that it be deleted with your account. Your posts will be effectively dissociated from your account; your username will no longer show on them, but it will instead show your denormalized username (e.g. "user123456" where 123456 was the user ID of your account).

However, certain posts you've made that have a score of -1 or lower will be deleted by the Community user immediately once your ac
@JeffreyWitty: At no point did anyone demand you like She-Ra. All people asked is that you not refer to it (and "stuff" like it) with a term that's used as a dogwhistle to dismiss people's concerns. It's not a neutral term that has no connotations, like "Gen X-er", and it's not a term anyone uses to refer to themselves; it's only used as an insult or to be condescending/dismissive.
It's fine not to like a show. It's not acceptable to be condescending/dismissive of others that do, and it's certainly not okay to double-down on that behavior after being called out on it. So as I said, as long as you're empathetic and understanding of others, they will generally extend the same courtesy towards you.
@BESW I was pretty disappointed in that Holmes retelling. Had so much promise.
@NautArch I thought the first season was solid, and then they slowly stopped character growth and kept rolling existing character growth back, and nope goodbye.
I want all my content removed asap
not my name
Unfortunately, that's not how it works.
12:27 AM
the content itself
have it that way then
I'm not even sure I got through the first season
I'll be bad then
No, you won't be. And if you are, you will be removed from the room.
I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve, but I am sorry you've decided that this is the way forward./
I can fake many ip's
12:28 AM
@JeffreyWitty All that will achieve is get your account suspended (or worse)
accounts are free
I un-ironically liked White Collar but i never watched Elementary
i only wantmy thoughts removed, please
That's a lot of effort to go to because you didn't understand the license you were granting for your content.
I think it would have made me really mad if i watched that
12:29 AM
its more effort to control me
@JeffreyWitty I appreciate that you want a certain thing, but the network does not work that way, as the link I posted above mentions. We don't have any control over that - this was how the network was designed to work.
Same with Lucifer
@JeffreyWitty Posting more is counterproductive. We do not own anything, and therefore cannot control anything. We are simply contributors, same as you.
Free money-wise, sure. But it's not useful. This wouldn't be the first time a disgruntled user tried to self-vandalize their content, or threaten to make duplicate accounts just to harass the site. There are specifically moderation mechanisms in place to prevent that.
And just as a general note, regarding this room vs. the general chat: If you are worried that a conversation might be uncomfortable to some, that's part of why this channel exists; this allows there to be a space for conversations on sensitive topics to happen without forcing those uncomfortable with it to engage with them, but all the rules (including the requirement to Be Nice) still apply.
12:29 AM
I understand it isnt you personally
I really just feel not welcome
and I wish to leave, with my thoughts
And yet, the only people you're going to be inconveniencing are the volunteers on this site.
Nobody with any authority to make changes will even notice.
then assist me, and I will be much more polite/kind with the matter. honestly, please
@JeffreyWitty Unfortunately, your options are a) stop using the site, let things lie b) delete your account, which will disassociate you from your content c) raise a big fuss and cause problems and ultimately have yourself suspended and still have to choose between a and b.
@JeffreyWitty I am sorry to hear that. A difference of opinion can happen, and does happen. The best way to manage this is to forget it and move on. Making all this effort is only making your own issue worse.
@Ben I read a similar discussion thread about removing code from Linux. In short, you can change the license going forward, but can't rescind the previously granted license. CC-by-sa is the same.
12:31 AM
If you really feel unwelcome, and aren't just having a bad day, then you are free to leave. Nobody can stop you. However the fact is you posted content onto StackExchange, and now StackExchange kind of owns that content. You can leave with your thoughts and your pride, but there's no way to take back your site content.
Assist you how? To get the site's license changed? A lot of people don't like the new license and have been shouting about it for months.
Its all about the snowflake thing
@JeffreyWitty We can't assist you any further than we have already - none of us have the power to do what you're asking. This is how the site is set up to operate.
@JeffreyWitty All we asked is that you not use a phrase that is harmful and disparaging and degrading to people. Compassion and kindness.
so why not allow me to fill the question with blank sopce
@MikeQ the creators still own it. Everyone else has a license to use it.
12:32 AM
I want to remove my words
all of them
@JeffreyWitty that's vandalizing the site.
Because it harms the site
The words will still be there.
No, it's not that you said snowflake, it's that you're trying to remove site content in a statement of "help help I'm being repressed", when we both know that you don't need to do that. You had a dispute in chat (which happens because site users are humans) and now you're taking out your frustration on the site. There's a mature way to go about this and you're choosing not to do that.
The edit history is a part of the question - it cannot be removed
12:33 AM
@JeffreyWitty see, though, you don't - the licence means that it's owned by SE, now.
ok, I will be petty and waste unpaid ppls time then
sorry guys
I really am
@JeffreyWitty you already granted the license to use it. Ownership doesn't allow you to rescind that license.
Excellent, then you're not going to waste this room's time anymore.
Oh hey, somebody beat me to the kick-mute with a suspension.
@BESW Now they're writing offensive words into the posts.
12:35 AM
@JeffreyWitty your endeavors could be an interesting use case that drives the development of a script or tool to mitigate an edge case. At the very least, that will be interesting to someone.
@JeffreyWitty If you are sorry, then don't do it. Your problem is with the organisation that owns the site. Vandalizing the site can't, and won't achieve anything. There is nothing we can do. You will have to contact the site owners, post over on meta.stackexchange.com . That is your best bet
This particular drama is very confusing.
@goodguy5 It happens. Disgruntled users try to lash out with whatever means available.
Literal people.
Sorry to come into the chat to find someone so unhappy with the site.
12:37 AM
Didn't realize that was him.
...Well then.
79 messages moved from RPG General Chat
2 messages moved from RPG General Chat
Of all the things to want to take back, commentary on role playing game issues is pretty low on my list.
but I don't even understand what to be disgruntled about.

When I had my special chat time-out, I was mildly disgruntled, because I didn't feel like it was properly explained to me what the offense was.

This was even less severe and more lenient and less of an issue.
@BESW went to go brush my teeth to see if they cooled down first...guess they didn't
And to cool myself down
I've never kicked anyone and was wary
12:40 AM
@NautArch that's why i just stopped talking ( i wasn't brushing my teeth, but i was trying to wait for this to,.... Stop)
They seemed civil in chat. Disgruntled definitively, but I'm gonna ruin my posts is more of a toddler tantrum.
Unfortunately it just escalated till he was removed
and with a really weird choice of slurs.

very unCanadian
And i guess now he's making a rucus elsewhere on the site :/
Did he insult people? I might have missed it. Mobile client is limited.
12:42 AM
@NautArch Being a mod in the Bridge for so long has given me a bit of "remove with expediency" attitude, apologies if I mistepped.
Let's remember to be nice, even (especially) if we feel disgruntled by something
I just wanted to give everyone a chance to breathe and regroup - I figure that there's no world where taking 30 min at least to breathe is a bad thing.
@Ash ohgeez, no. My apologies for not pulling the trigger earlier.
I didn't get the not nice vibe. Came into the middle of a lot of frustration vibe.
@GcL Yes. A good thing you did.
Limited and contained.
Thanks y'all.
12:45 AM
@BESW we have that in common
That's too bad. I can definitely commiserate with frustration with this site.
@GcL darnit, do I need to make another mea culpa post?
@NautArch about what?
What was the previous one about?
@NautArch it's healthy
@GcL it was this
12:49 AM
@JeffreyWitty Jeffrey, I thought that the term, when I first encountered it, was a label for people who tended to whine too much and act like crybabies on the internet. However, I've since learned that there are some layers of context that I was not aware of, so I just stopped using it. I stopped using the term raghead more than a decade ago during a conversation with a Sikh ... and I had been using that term since 1980, not long after the Iranian Embassy mess during the Islamic Revolution.
over simplistically, they said something mildly (imo) offensive and we told them that we don't operate like that here, and then they got moderately upset about it.

And when we continued to mildly try to remind them that we don't operate that way here, they got aggrivated.
And now the whack a mole begins: rpg.stackexchange.com/users/62255/bunchowhiners
@NautArch Linking to meta? Aahhhh you almost got me. I don't go there anymore.
@JeffreyWitty Stuff changes, and it can be a real bugger to try and keep up. What's nice about this chat is that there are so many people with varying contexts that we can learn from each other. Kinda cool, if you ask me.
@MikeQ for someone who doesn't want to be that guy...
12:51 AM
Okay I'll bite... Just once
@MikeQ Mike, nice catch.
Right up there with "no offense"
@MikeQ And here I tried to convince this person to grow a thick skin, on Meta.
@JeffreyWitty but I guess that you didn't ask me ...
@MikeQ I don't think that was them. It read like an independantly disgruntleded person. Not that it matters much
For all I know, all of you are one person with millions of sock puppet accounts.
12:55 AM
@Someone_Evil And what about us Gruntled people? Are we to be dissed soon? Against our will!!! This is an outrage!!!!!!!!!!
@NautArch That seems like a problem of perceived intention or tone. Tough to avoid. Some people have a predilection towards viewing dissent that way. Even neutral writing styles can get misconstrued by some.
Nov 12 '14 at 11:08, by doppelgreener
BESW is actually a hive mind of like a dozen and a half people
@GcL the obvious solution is to communicate aggressively so people never misunderstand
There really is a tweet comment for everything
I find it entertaining to read comments (anywhere) in the voice of someone who is really stoned.
12:57 AM
@MikeQ roleplaying arguments with themselves on a website about roleplaying
in RPG General Chat, Jan 1 '16 at 13:59, by nitsua60
I've always assumed BESW is a team of four, working in shifts. One's always typing, one's farming links, one's running games, one's sleeping.
@AndrasDeak ha! Preemptive commentary strikes! /S
@BESW My alternate theory is that I'm the only user, and everything else here is simulated by bots. Every question, answer, meta dispute, and chat is procedurally generated.
@GcL Like, man. It's so entertaining to read, y'know comments and stuff? if you pretend they've been hitting the reefer.
@MikeQ how did you find them
@goodguy5 That's just making it too easy.
12:58 AM
@MikeQ As a replicant, I am offended by that ... 8^p
@goodguy5 Smokey tells secrets (but not lies)
@goodguy5 should I go back and read my comments from a few years ago, and then do it in a "stoned Korvin" voice?
@Someone_Evil oh, I blocked that jerk
@goodguy5 I blocked smokey a long while back; I only see Smokey's posts when I go back to old messages
@GcL you wot
1:01 AM
But if you block Smokey, how will you learn about online spellcasting services and vampire cults?
@AndrasDeak got swol n commented out.
@MikeQ don't forget potions (arguably spell casting)
Don't take away my voodoo fortunetellers and my vampirism offers
@MikeQ From my wife's incessant face book feeds that she reads to me ...
@MikeQ She has (in the last ten minutes) now rubbed lemon flavored CBD oil on her aching bones ... which I equate to snake oil ...
@KorvinStarmast oh man, if you want a toxic hive of scum and villainy, find yourself a new mommy group. Base on what my wife shares with me, they're 50% hatred, 20% antivaxxers, 20% helicopter parents, and 10% helpful people
1:04 AM
@MikeQ you don't get flyers put on your car windshield for these things?
@KorvinStarmast the cbd part or the lemon part
@MarkWells No. Is there a way to opt-in for that?
@goodguy5 I am a retired helicopter pilot, and I was/am a parent. Does that make me a helicopter parent?
@goodguy5 Yes
@MikeQ park in front of a Peebles, TJMaxx, etc in the spring for more than 10 minutes
@goodguy5 When our kid was born, my wife joined an in-person new mom support group, specifically so that "Then when someone gives me advice, I can look them in the eye and see if they're crazy."
1:05 AM
@KorvinStarmast hopefully there's some placebo effect, but yeah... Snake oil.
@MarkWells I 100% support in person groups for moms and dads (especially first time)
@KorvinStarmast I mean, CBD oil has known benefits. and some theoretical ones that are still being studied. Among them being anti inflammatory.
@goodguy5 +1
@goodguy5 I will wait for about five more years before I believe any of that.
I want to see the long term thing ...
@KorvinStarmast that's totally fine.
@goodguy5 And if it turns out to pass my smell test, I'll use the hell out of it if I need it.
1:08 AM
@KorvinStarmast It's funny you say that; *gestures vaguely at humanity existing alongside hemp for millennia*
Are we "allowed" to talk about Medical Marijuana in here? Is that going to rustle anyone's jimmies?
@goodguy5 Amigo, I was sampling herb before you were born ... ;)
@KorvinStarmast I concur. Double blind clinical trials in an ICH signatory county or GTFO.
(On the other hand, Willie Nelson is a CBD advocate, so I am keeping an eye open)
@KorvinStarmast I'm with you, but there's a lot of anecdotal evidence out there. Personally, I'm waiting until the results come back first.
@goodguy5 I mean... sure, but the same rules apply as always. People have really strong feelings about this stuff and it's important to talk about them in ways that don't invalidate or trivialize others' experiences.
1:10 AM
It feels totally like snake oil, though.
It'll help with everything!
Linus Pauling was an advocate that vitamin C curred... everything? Dude had like two Nobel prizes.
I have a friend who was near to dead least year (hep C) and he is no kidding case of ' smoking dope sorted serious back pain' when a lot of drugs were off limits to him. His wife is career RN, and she's on board.
Fair. I've been struggling with back pain (like awful back pain) for a decade and started with Medical MJ and it's honestly astounding how much it's helped.
This sums it up for me, and a source I trust.
I don't really like smoking it, though. sublingual tincture for me, thanks
1:12 AM
Medical MJ also helps my old D&D buddy who now lives in Oakland. His ankle is a mess:been playing soccer since age 3, and he just turned 61. Had to stop at 59 on doctor's orders
@NautArch I legit thought you were replying to Kor and I and I was a bit shocked lol
@NautArch yeah, still a work in progress
Lots of stuff does look good, though. Even if it does some of what they're claiming, then that's be awesome.
@goodguy5 btw this was lost in the conversation, but what was this ping about? I was a bit confused :P
1:16 AM
There is no pain that I currently have that a shot of rye (or aspirin) won't sort out. But as I get older, I suspect that will change.
@V2Blast What's the story of your name?
@goodguy5 They are the updated version of V1Blast
1:18 AM
@NautArch Thanks, we're keeping an eye on it
@KorvinStarmast agreed for everything other than my lower back pain
@V2Blast cool, couldn't flag it and saw you here
@goodguy5 My buddy above with hep C last year agrees with you, in re his back
@goodguy5 Inspired by the V-2 unit in Command & Conquer: Red Alert :)
ah ha. I thought I remembered as much
1:19 AM
@V2Blast pls check back room, I got a "get a replacement" message from my salt marsh guy
huh..... Looking into "snake oil", seems like it might actually do.... SOMETHING? At least in traditional Chinese medicine.

Though could be as little as "rubbing oil on skin makes skin feel better", so hard to say.
Historically it was only prescribed by snake doctors, for snake patients. Humans have only begun to use snake oil relatively recently.
Damn pentathians
Much like how baby oil was invented by baby doctors. Unfortunately, most baby patients lack the funds to afford it.
In 1989 an analysis of snake oil bought in San Francisco’s Chinatown found that it contained 20 per cent eicosapentaenoic acid, which is more than is found in popular omega-3 food sources such as salmon.

Omega-3 fatty acids have been shown to reduce inflammation and are alleged to offer many other health benefits.
Well, that was a fun dive into the internet
1:25 AM
and I am off to get fish for Mrs S's dinner ...
@KorvinStarmast salmon!
lemon and (olive) oil! to blend in with her ointment
Ok everyone, let's go back to main chat! Adult swim!
4 hours later…
5:51 AM
@GcL Me too, in many ways, but having to maintain a respectful or at least tolerant attitude towards groups with other interests isn't one of them. I can symphatize with wanting the right to delete one's content, but as pointed out the license is indeed unrevokable and therefore can only be rescinded by mutual agreement or some really special circumstances
And that makes good business sense --- imagine if the Monica case would've caused an exodus of content instead of just contributors!
6:50 AM
@V2Blast Always found it a bit funny how it's a Soviet unit despite the Germans being on the Allied side.
Otoh the Russians did have some wild rocket artillery too...
7:02 AM
@kviiri Some people tried, given that that happened at the same time as people got upset over the license change
@V2Blast Hm, yes... tried :) What was the license change btw? I don't remember what we had prior to current.
just going from Creative Commons 3.0 to 4.0, I believe
but without asking, and retroactively applying the new license to all posts (including ones made before the change)
Q: Stack Exchange and Stack Overflow have moved to CC BY-SA 4.0

Tim PostEffective today, all Subscriber Content on Stack Overflow and the Stack Exchange network will be available under the terms of version 4.0 of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike (CC BY-SA) license. This change follows our last Terms Of Service (ToS) update where we inadvertently introduce...

7:41 AM
Thanks V2
And ignoring community concerns with hints of "legal told me not to say anything"
"Don't answer that" -- every lawyer ever
8:38 AM
the new license itself (4.0) is generally fine, people just don't like the way SE Inc. went about the change
But hey. I want to second Nitsua's thanks on the main side. I'm sad about people lashing out against this great community but you guys handled it respectfully.
9:00 AM
This is not a place that can be made actually safe for vulnerable people, because stuff like [gestures above] will happen here. It's impossible to curate an open Stack chat to the extent necessary; we can't (and arguably shouldn't) bring down the hammer fast enough.
But we've put a lot of work into making it another kind of space that's really important: a place where people can make mistakes and recover from them and learn about how to act in safe and supportive ways, through example and discussion.
Part of making this space work for that function is that we don't ignore the mistakes--we point them out and help people find opportunities to change. That happened today, and somebody clearly self-selected to not participate.
I saw people being clear and encouraging and positive, while being firm about boundaries and avoiding permissiveness. That was cool.
9:31 AM
That was cool.
9:52 AM
Yeah, basically in a nutshell, if you feel He-Man is awesome and you want to talk about He-Man, talk about He-Man. We're all cool with that. But bashing people for not talking about He-Man, with vague allegations of censorship and such, does not sit well with me.
There was... a lot more under the water than just that, but this isn't the place for a post-mortem.
Sure, it's not just about He-Man or any particular franchise.
Or even media tastes, but rather attitudes.
2 hours later…
11:37 AM
@Ash also OK KO, which is on my list because of its queer rep
4 hours later…
4:01 PM
@kviiri it seems that the bird cam switches to IR when it gets dark (at least it becomes black and white with nice resolution), and keeps on streaming blackness all night long. You should signal the Finnish hivemind that it's a wasted opportunity not to have an IR floodlight illuminate the scenery :) I don't expect birbs to come around in the middle of the night, but perhaps there'd be all sorts of critters visible in the background...
@AndrasDeak Yeah, I'm mildly puzzled by the decision to switch to IR cam ... when it's too dark for that too.
Birds can see some of the infrared spectrum can't they?
> However, like humans, birds do not see above about 700 nanometers. While some birds range into UV, IR light is as invisible to them as it is to us.
Oh, right
4:29 PM
that's good news for all the owl documentaries
7 hours later…
11:20 PM
hoot hoot

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