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2:00 PM
I don't know who said that but there are various ways to gain those abilities for PCs, BUT: they are difficult to obtain, and none of them are baseline or baked into a class
@MageintheBarrel fly
@MageintheBarrel Sure, create a distraction.
Not even the ring of earth elemental command gives tremorsense
@MageintheBarrel Chat transcript says no.
Yeah, having an ability like that permanently would require some form of permanent drawback as well.
2:00 PM
and it gives you the ability to go through rock
@Yuuki ha, just checked that, too.
You have permanent blindsight except now you can no longer detect things that are wearing orange.
i once saw someone come up the ridiculous claim that tremorsense lets yo u sense sound since it's a virbrationtion
Now you regret calling orangesense dumb, don't you?
well if you evolved in permanent darkness woun't that mean the sun would hurt like he
@MageintheBarrel do you own the core rulebooks or have ready access to them, out of curiosity?
2:02 PM
just the phb tho
Have you considered making them blind beyond the special-sense radius?
so no, just the PHB
Tremorsense specifically says "in the ground", though.
(and through water for aquatic creatures but I digress)
@MageintheBarrel it seems to me, having seen your posts about homebrew for several days in here, that it would benefit you greatly to read through bits of the other books as well to get a sense of what you're trying to balance around
isn't that how blindsense and tremorsense work?
2:03 PM
Blindsight (20/25 ft) but actually blind beyond that seems maybe all right.
i thought blindsight was blind beyond that if they didn't havr regular sight
maybe a watered down vampire hypersensitivy to sunlight
So they've been in darkness so long that they've developed the ability to detect their surroundings without light but to compensate for that they can't actually see anything?
@Yuuki Pirates have disadvantage on stealth checks against you :P
@MageintheBarrel technically everyone is blind beyond the range of their vision
@MageintheBarrel Ehh.. everything can see by default, so the game (statblocks) make exceptions for things that can't
2:05 PM
so 20 ft tremorsense but blind beyond that
I still have spaces available on my chatizen dndbeyond access. For five minutes, the url is available if anyone wants access to most of the rules content. click here to get the URL
That could actually work. Limit the range of vision in exchange for being essentially immune to vision-impairment.
i was under the assumtion that range of vision is automatically limited
@MageintheBarrel Why is that ridiculous? There is an entire superhero based on that, and there have been numerous concerts for the deaf that use special subwoofers to transmit different vibrations for sensing.
Hmm... given that blindsight doesn't work by vision, would Silent Image be visible to a normal human yet imperceptible to a blindsight-only character?
2:06 PM
@Yuuki yup
I'd assume so Yuuki, since a regular blind person presumably wouldn't see Silent Image either.
The image isn't actually there, so I don't imagine Blindsight would indicate anything.
@NautArch Thanks!
@G.Moylan NP :)
I've had a game where between them, my players could see in the dark, in the astral plan, see through tremorsense, see the body heat of their ennemies, feel colors on their skin, taste sounds and sense thinking creature nearby.
It was hell to dm.
I don't have Guildmasters
2:08 PM
By a similar token, a PC with Blindsight but no actual vision wouldn't be able to discern stuff like patterns on fabric and colours and whatnot, right?
but i've got nearly everything else
#### Tremorsense (Replaces Bare Fangs)
The black forest swallows all light, you can perceive virbations in your surroundings without relying on eyesight within 20 ft but are blind outside of that range
hows this?
@JohnClifford unsure. depends on how it works.
@NautArch I do, I can share, hold on
@JohnClifford They would by touch, but there aren't explicit rules for that
2:08 PM
So I guess that would be down to the DM ruling.
@G.Moylan I think that if you join the campaign, we all get access to yours, too. But not positive about that.
Personally I'd probably rule against that level of detail.
because that's how I got Eberron access through one of my players
There is apparently a tweet (... yay) about this.
@NautArch oooo interesting
2:09 PM
> "Blindsight qualifies for anything in the D&D rules that requires you to see something, provided that thing is within your blindsight's radius."
If it helps people understand blindsight, the echolocation of bats is represented by blindsight
@G.Moylan up, I see it now!
Ahh, that's interesting. Thanks Yuuki.
So blindsight can see Silent Images.
So I guess it's literally "no, I can see it" in response to any sort of obstruction.
@NautArch hooray!
2:11 PM
also thought about giving them a weakness to sunlight where they take small amounts of damage each turn if they're not covered fully in an opaque material when in direct sunlight
@Yuuki what's the source for that, if you have it?
So if that's the case, what differentiates Blindsight from just a lower range of vision?
I think maybe that tweet is referring to spells/targeting rather than silent image. I certainly don't agree with that ruling
You can still see even if you're blinded
Fair point.
2:12 PM
the idea is the evolved in a place that never has any light
@Someone_Evil Yeah, i'm of the belief that if you can't see, visual illusions aren't there
Darkness, invisibility
@MageintheBarrel sunlight sensitivity is a thing already and you can use that as a baseline if you like
I can't verify because Twitter is blocked for me, but according to where I grabbed that link from, that's what it says.
2:12 PM
episode of critical role I listened to recently, they cast Blindness/Deafness on a dragon but the dragon had blindsight so it could still see them within its blindsight range
@NautArch Thank you very much for this!
@Yuuki Hmm, I may agree with that, though. Blindsight is a sight. Tremorsense is not.
vampires problem with that is what I was thinking of
@Sdjz No worries. I figure I'm paying for the access and I may as well use it :)
@JeremyECrawford if a spell requires seeing your target(s), does perceiving them through blindsight suffice?

10:25 AM - 9 Mar 2018

Blindsight qualifies for anything in the D&D rules that requires you to see something, provided that thing is within your blindsight's radius. #DnDJeremy Crawford added,
2:14 PM
Sunlight Hypersensitivity. The vampire takes 20 radiant damage when it starts its turn in sunlight. While in sunlight, it has disadvantage on attack rolls and ability checks
but not so high damage
that's hypersensitivity, there's also normal sensitivity like Drow have
He expanded on that too.
Unless the rules explicitly expand, narrow, or completely redefine a word, that word retains the meaning it has in idiomatic English. #DnD
yeah i know
I would like to remind everyone that his tweets are unofficial, and probably for good reason. Spur-of-the-moment, 140 character answer isn't guaranteed to cover all aspects of the rules.
> Sunlight Sensitivity.While in sunlight, the drow has disadvantage on attack rolls, as well as on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight.
2:15 PM
And Drow (or other underground critters) have essentially no sun contact.

Does the magical darkness block UV rays?
^ In response to someone saying it depends on which definition of "see" you're using.
#### Albinism
Your skin and hair have no pigment and are pure white, as a result it's hard to concentrate when you are in direct sunlight, you have a disadvatage to attack rolls and rolls that involve using magic.
So if you can take that tweet as gospel, Blindsight is basically normal sight you can't turn off.
@goodguy5 Oh man, my warlock's definitely getting a pair of glasses enchanted with very minor magical darkness.
@JohnClifford So the counter to blindsight is to play R-rated clips of the blindsighted character's parents?
Or old people?
Hahahaha yes
2:18 PM
since their blind the wisdom checks that rely on sight is pointless
well, crawford tweets are no longer the same amount of RAW they once were, but yea.

Wait, if your blindsight is always on, does that make it harder or easier to sleep?
Asking the real questions
I kind of like the idea that people with Blindsight would be insomniacs because they can't stop noticing stuff around them.
Is it weird that I feel like blindsight shouldn't work on televisions?
imo not weird
People get used to having hearing and smell always on. I'm sure they'll get used to a sight of sorts. ^_^
2:21 PM
@goodguy5 Technically they were never actually RAW
@MageintheBarrel I'm not saying you shouldn't create homebrew, but you may get better results once you get a better understanding of the overall game. The PHB is a great start, but homebrewing well is hard and without a solid foundation of mechanics of both the PHB, but the DMG/MM, etc. it can be hard to know if what you're planning is good or bad.
@Rubiksmoose *rats
@goodguy5 Does D&D have UV rays?
what about this "hellish screech: use your action to release a horiffying sound that reveals all of your suroundings withing a 60 ft radius"
@MageintheBarrel Sounds like some toddlers I know
2:22 PM
Was gonna say that sounds like my niece.
@MageintheBarrel It seems like you are just going through the PHB and throwing spaghetti to see what sticks...
instead of regular sight of sourse
@MageintheBarrel was gonna say seems like a bonus action
@MageintheBarrel Would they have any other way of perceiving the world?
Childish screech: toddler uses it's action to release a horrifying sound that reveals all parents within a 60ft radius.
2:23 PM
@GcL This. Many times this. I have boys of 4.5 and 3, and they get in dinosaur roaring battles.
@MageintheBarrel Use action to gain a basic sense seems like an incredibly tedious and unfun mechanic
Are you actually creating this race for a game or just to get the idea out?
@MageintheBarrel That should also just give you a snapshot for that moment. Once things move, you no longer know. Or you don't know if they've moved or not.
Blindsight is a real thing. The guy is blind but not really. His eyes work, they can be used for motor control, but their linkage to higher brain functions is just not there.
that's something i just randomly thought of
and yes i'm creating this for a game
2:24 PM
"Sorry guys, I can't attack this round because I want to see."
so bonus action then
@JohnClifford Yeah... that would be super annoying... and ruin the action economy of the character.
Permanent disadvantage.
I agree that you should get more playtime under your belt.

Just skin another race how you want to and move forward.

drow, for example
#### Tremorsense (Replaces Bare Fangs)
The black forest swallows all light, you can perceive virbations in your surroundings without relying on eyesight within 20 ft but are blind outside of that range
Even as a bonus action that would possibly hamper your reaction options, so classes like Protection Fighter would get shafted a bit.
2:25 PM
@JohnClifford or any spell caster that has spells that involve "as a bonus action"
@JohnClifford "Protection Fighter"? Homebrew?
So... like all of them
@JohnClifford And it would still have the issue that you wouldn't be able to see anything after that instant. So, readied actions and ongoing spell effects and coordinated startegies are basically non-starters.
A fighter with the protection fighting style.
2:25 PM
my dm doesn't want me reskining things
(so the reaction where you can use a shield to impose disadvantage on attack rolls for enemies attacking allies within 5 feet of you)
I'm curious as to why not
@MageintheBarrel They'd rather have you invent new stuff?
like i made a reskin of the changling and they said it was to similar
How do they tell the difference between a wholly new creation and copy paste with the nouns changed?
2:26 PM
The DM should be able to account for what you're capable of doing. You shouldn't have to completely invent a race to be able to play.
they also said they were fine with changling normally soo
Would it be too forward for me to ask the ages of the involved parties?
Seriously. Narratively reskinning and leaving mechanics alone is the best way.
### Conceal Form
As an action, you can transform into your human for, revert to your fox form, or chose to change one feature from human to fox or vice versa. You revert to your natural form if you die or are knocked unconscious. Your appearance is given away by your reflection.

Even to the most astute observers, your ruse is usually indiscernible. If you rouse suspicion, or if a wary creature suspects something is amiss, you have advantage on any Charisma (Deception) check you make to avoid detection.
2:27 PM
@goodguy5 Seems irrelevant.
@MageintheBarrel Why not go with changeling then?
i literally had to go to this before they would approve
@goodguy5 Mage has said in chat they are 22, so I would presume most around that age.
I've been DMing and playing D&D for years now and I would avoid completely homebrewing stuff if possible.
@MageintheBarrel I'm not sure it's clear what you and your DM think "reskinning" is. Reskinning is mechanics don't change, but the fluff around them does.
2:28 PM
@JohnClifford I avoid homebrewing because I don't have fermentation-grade bottles and would rather not have things exploding in my kitchen.
LIke you have an Elf. But you call it a Bob. And come up with lore around Bob, but mechanically, they're elves.
What exactly is your DM's objection to your race being "too similar" to Changeling? Like why do they care?
Being against reskinning is a weird stance for sure.
@Yuuki It's all about the still for me.
2:29 PM
@SirCinnamon that
i can ask em later
@Yuuki Your local university surplus is your friend there. Lab equipment makes excellent home brew equipment.
@SirCinnamon I"m still unclear that we're all working off the same definition of 'reskin'
@MageintheBarrel How much DM (or player) experience does your DM have?
I'd honestly go to the DM and tell them a bunch of irrelevant people who probably think they know more about D&D than they actually do said they were being an idiot and should let you use your race as originally presented.
2:30 PM
(maybe in nicer terms than that)
Just as a note, let's not jump down their throats here. I think that most of us here acknowledge that this is a strange position and one contrary to the way we'd run things. It doesn't mean it is wrong per se (not to mention there is nothing they can do about what their DM thinks really)
You send them here and we'll give them the whatfor
XD of course in nicer terms than that, I was employing just a pinch of hyperbole.
@goodguy5 Put your pitchfork away :p
2:31 PM
But I also don't understand how you can be against reskinning.
@MageintheBarrel Well, if they want homebrew but no reskinning, take the changeling stuff you like... alter the description... and maybe throw in some other OP mechanics to give the DM something to cross off. They'll feel like they did their job. Movie directors used to do something similar by putting over the top scenes to give the censors something to cut.
@Rubiksmoose perhaps the DM didn't see the need to brew anything since the Changeling already has established, balanced rules
@Rubiksmoose Maybe they don't like it.
But then take my words with a pinch of salt: I allowed my druid to use Shillelagh on a sickle that they narratively changed into a kama instead, and my cleric wanted dead frogs on sticks as a weapon instead of a mace so her attack is called George and Sparkles.
@MageintheBarrel Can you describe what you mean by your reskin?
2:32 PM
@Rubiksmoose There is some idea which says the Lore is important and unchangeable. The books disagree though.
gimme a bit to grab my older version
@SirCinnamon Look, I find taxidermy extremely weird.
@Someone_Evil eh hem, it's clearly a trident
But if you follow that idea reskinning things become "wrong"
At the end of the day as long as everyone in the game has fun it doesn't matter one bit which parts you change.
2:32 PM
@Yuuki More of a sculpture purist?
@Someone_Evil But it is then weird to combine that with the idea that inventing new things is completely fine.
@Rubiksmoose People are weird. Meet them where they are.
@Rubiksmoose I get the feeling we aren't getting the whole picture.
if your DM is going to approve it as long as it's not reskinned, maybe you should just get as much over-powered abilities in as you can?
2:33 PM
@Rubiksmoose I guess adding new stuff is different to changing preexisting ones
@GcL I mean that is what I was trying to encourage explicitly there. Saying "I don't understand" is not the same as saying "this is bad" or "you are wrong". I just am not seeing the mentality here and I don't really need to honestly since I am not playing.
@MageintheBarrel And you're saying that's a reskin of a Changeling?
I mean if the players don't already have intimate knowledge of the setting/lore, why would it matter if the DM changed a few things up here and there? Likewise, if a player wants to customise some lore for their character, there's probably a way to justify it.
for the most part
the ability they had qualms with was
also they approved of it than after reading in detail changed their mind
Which ability did they have qualms with?
2:35 PM
@MageintheBarrel .....?
change form
Change appearance?
which is just like my father all over again
my father changes his mind a lot
2:36 PM
@MageintheBarrel So...its not a reskin.
sorry reskin of a changling ability
@NautArch if you want to get literal, it technically is. :P
@MageintheBarrel - You need to sit down with your DM and discuss this out. Right now it's running back and forth with a lot of misunderstood "he said she said".
@JohnP I agree with this. @MageintheBarrel it sounds like you're coming here for validation over why your content is "perfectly fine" and your dm is "wrong to turn you down." You really should sit down a discuss with them
2:38 PM
If your DM has experience, just tell them what you want to do, and they should be able to say "Ok, you want mechanic X, Y and Z, Q is the best way to go about that".
I can't really see why the DM would object to an ability that's more restrictive: if I'm reading it right you basically have Change Appearance only you can only be a fox. But yeah, I think you need to discuss this with them.
Please also keep in mind that the Changeling, as part of Eberron, isn't final/fully published, so it is fine for you DM to dislike an ability of theirs. Also that there are final/published races which aren't universally allowed (see Aarackocra and Adventurer's League)
the rejected the original ability
not the currect on homebrewery
@MageintheBarrel And did they give a reason why? Or did you just go off and start changing other stuff?
2:39 PM
@MageintheBarrel If you truly think your DM made a mistake in their judgement, you need to talk it out with them. We have zero influence on the situation
they said it was too similar
and coming to the DM going "these people on the internet say you're wrong" isn't a good way to start that conversation
not to be rude but i'm curious why would weren't okay with your reskin of my changingling did you want me to change the mechinics, were you just not okay with me paraphrasing, or did you not like the fact that i added as full shapshift as well as the beast form?
thats what i asked them
you need to work it out with them. We don't enter into the conversation. Asking us to take sides on an issue like this is only going to exacerbate the situation
Not much you can do until they respond, really.
2:42 PM
yeah i'm waiting on that
On an unrelated note, can anyone think of any potential DM pitfalls I might have opened up for myself later by allowing the druid to Shillelagh her sickle?
@G.Moylan but I love exacerbating the situation.
@goodguy5 ahhh a fellow instigator
I'm an on-demand pot-stirring detective.
Insta-gator instigator investigator
@JohnClifford Not off hand, but I'm not that familiar with 5e. Maybe giving it magical might bite you a bit? And you change the damage dice, iirc. Shillelagh is d8, sickle d4.
2:47 PM
@JohnClifford shouldn't be anything important.
@JohnP It can do the same to light club, which is eq to sickle except for damage type
@Someone_Evil Yeah, that was a stretch, but it's about the only diff I can think of.
@JohnClifford Flavour (if you or anyone cares), damage type (which shouldn't be major) and possible precedent which should be solvable by stating it as an explicit exception made
I mean, generally, physical damage types don't matter.
The danger could be if they go "well if I can do it with the sickle, why not a whip", or this magical frying pan, etc.
2:50 PM
@goodguy5 but skeletons!
why not the magical frying pan?
@goodguy5 The are a very few, niche things that care, but not enough to worry anyone
@SirCinnamon butt skeletons (don't google at work. drawings of butts, apparently. who knew?)
@goodguy5 I'm not saying you can't do other exceptions, but you might not want the frying pan to be shillelagh'd. It could hurt its feelings.
She seems pretty attached to using her kama as a weapon so I don't think that'll be a problem.
2:52 PM
well i asked my dm he said that he was stating his opinion from the player perpective and he's fine with it as a dm
@MageintheBarrel I do want to say that in general, and especially with DMs/players that are new to the game, it is best to stick with the standard options. It just makes it a lot easier for everyone involved.
how strong would a Magical Frying pan that was a +1 weapon and gave +1 AC be?
one handed d4?
a la Tangled.
since that's cleared up i'll get to work on my drow reskin
@goodguy5 Considered a simple, martial, or improvised weapon?
without changing things this time
2:53 PM
@goodguy5 can you wear it on your backside for advantage on saving your butt?
still think tremorse is cooler tho
@G.Moylan Nah, like, if you wield it.
@JohnClifford that was my competition weapon for a couple years.
@MageintheBarrel As long as no mechanics actually change
But in general, I"d really suggest focusing more on learning the raw mechanics for your character rather than trying to homebrew something.
@MageintheBarrel You need to stop thinking about "what would be cool" and think about "what would work and be cool".
2:55 PM
@MageintheBarrel tremorsense is cool but so is a beholder with eye rays. Being cool doesn't make the ability suited for PC use
i guess i could say the black forest curse just makes it night 24/7
@MageintheBarrel perfect
so darksight and light sources still work
@goodguy5 In terms of rarity, I think around rare. A +1 club isn't very exciting, but trading light for +1 AC is fairly hefty. Sounds fun on a Cleric I think.
@MageintheBarrel Your kitsune does diverge from the Changeling with the Fox Form.
2:58 PM
Is 5e druid still essentially invincible at 20th level btw?
@JohnClifford I always thought it seemed so. specifically the moon druid

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