TRPG General Chat

2:00 PM

I don't know who said that but there are various ways to gain those abilities for PCs, BUT: they are difficult to obtain, and none of them are baseline or baked into a class

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel fly

Mark Wells

@MageintheBarrel Sure, create a distraction.

NautArch

Not even the ring of earth elemental command gives tremorsense

Yuuki

@MageintheBarrel Chat transcript says no.

John Clifford

Yeah, having an ability like that permanently would require some form of permanent drawback as well.

NautArch

2:00 PM

and it gives you the ability to go through rock

@Yuuki ha, just checked that, too.

Yuuki

You have permanent blindsight except now you can no longer detect things that are wearing orange.

Mage in the Barrel

i once saw someone come up the ridiculous claim that tremorsense lets yo u sense sound since it's a virbrationtion

Yuuki

Now you regret calling orangesense dumb, don't you?

Mage in the Barrel

well if you evolved in permanent darkness woun't that mean the sun would hurt like he

G. Moylan

@MageintheBarrel do you own the core rulebooks or have ready access to them, out of curiosity?

Mage in the Barrel

2:02 PM

yeah

just the phb tho

Someone_Evil

Have you considered making them blind beyond the special-sense radius?

G. Moylan

so no, just the PHB

John Clifford

Tremorsense specifically says "in the ground", though.

(and through water for aquatic creatures but I digress)

G. Moylan

@MageintheBarrel it seems to me, having seen your posts about homebrew for several days in here, that it would benefit you greatly to read through bits of the other books as well to get a sense of what you're trying to balance around

Mage in the Barrel

isn't that how blindsense and tremorsense work?

Yuuki

2:03 PM

Blindsight (20/25 ft) but actually blind beyond that seems maybe all right.

Mage in the Barrel

i thought blindsight was blind beyond that if they didn't havr regular sight

maybe a watered down vampire hypersensitivy to sunlight

John Clifford

So they've been in darkness so long that they've developed the ability to detect their surroundings without light but to compensate for that they can't actually see anything?

DucksGoMooful

@Yuuki Pirates have disadvantage on stealth checks against you :P

G. Moylan

@MageintheBarrel technically everyone is blind beyond the range of their vision

Someone_Evil

@MageintheBarrel Ehh.. everything can see by default, so the game (statblocks) make exceptions for things that can't

Mage in the Barrel

2:05 PM

so 20 ft tremorsense but blind beyond that

NautArch

I still have spaces available on my chatizen dndbeyond access. For five minutes, the url is available if anyone wants access to most of the rules content. click here to get the URL

John Clifford

That could actually work. Limit the range of vision in exchange for being essentially immune to vision-impairment.

Mage in the Barrel

i was under the assumtion that range of vision is automatically limited

JohnP

@MageintheBarrel Why is that ridiculous? There is an entire superhero based on that, and there have been numerous concerts for the deaf that use special subwoofers to transmit different vibrations for sensing.

Yuuki

Hmm... given that blindsight doesn't work by vision, would Silent Image be visible to a normal human yet imperceptible to a blindsight-only character?

Someone_Evil

2:06 PM

@Yuuki yup

John Clifford

I'd assume so Yuuki, since a regular blind person presumably wouldn't see Silent Image either.

The image isn't actually there, so I don't imagine Blindsight would indicate anything.

G. Moylan

@NautArch Thanks!

NautArch

@G.Moylan NP :)

Ko_sct

I've had a game where between them, my players could see in the dark, in the astral plan, see through tremorsense, see the body heat of their ennemies, feel colors on their skin, taste sounds and sense thinking creature nearby.
It was hell to dm.

NautArch

I don't have Guildmasters

John Clifford

2:08 PM

By a similar token, a PC with Blindsight but no actual vision wouldn't be able to discern stuff like patterns on fabric and colours and whatnot, right?

NautArch

but i've got nearly everything else

Mage in the Barrel

#### Tremorsense (Replaces Bare Fangs)
The black forest swallows all light, you can perceive virbations in your surroundings without relying on eyesight within 20 ft but are blind outside of that range

hows this?

goodguy5

@JohnClifford unsure. depends on how it works.

G. Moylan

@NautArch I do, I can share, hold on

Someone_Evil

@JohnClifford They would by touch, but there aren't explicit rules for that

John Clifford

2:08 PM

So I guess that would be down to the DM ruling.

NautArch

@G.Moylan I think that if you join the campaign, we all get access to yours, too. But not positive about that.

John Clifford

Personally I'd probably rule against that level of detail.

NautArch

because that's how I got Eberron access through one of my players

Yuuki

There is apparently a tweet (... yay) about this.

G. Moylan

@NautArch oooo interesting

Yuuki

2:09 PM

> "Blindsight qualifies for anything in the D&D rules that requires you to see something, provided that thing is within your blindsight's radius."

Someone_Evil

If it helps people understand blindsight, the echolocation of bats is represented by blindsight

NautArch

@G.Moylan up, I see it now!

booya!

John Clifford

Ahh, that's interesting. Thanks Yuuki.

Yuuki

So blindsight can see Silent Images.

So I guess it's literally "no, I can see it" in response to any sort of obstruction.

G. Moylan

@NautArch hooray!

Mage in the Barrel

2:11 PM

also thought about giving them a weakness to sunlight where they take small amounts of damage each turn if they're not covered fully in an opaque material when in direct sunlight

DucksGoMooful

@Yuuki what's the source for that, if you have it?

John Clifford

So if that's the case, what differentiates Blindsight from just a lower range of vision?

Someone_Evil

I think maybe that tweet is referring to spells/targeting rather than silent image. I certainly don't agree with that ruling

DucksGoMooful

You can still see even if you're blinded

John Clifford

Fair point.

Mage in the Barrel

2:12 PM

the idea is the evolved in a place that never has any light

NautArch

@Someone_Evil Yeah, i'm of the belief that if you can't see, visual illusions aren't there

Yuuki

@DucksGoMooful twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/972239019642781697

Someone_Evil

Darkness, invisibility

G. Moylan

@MageintheBarrel sunlight sensitivity is a thing already and you can use that as a baseline if you like

Yuuki

I can't verify because Twitter is blocked for me, but according to where I grabbed that link from, that's what it says.

DucksGoMooful

2:12 PM

episode of critical role I listened to recently, they cast Blindness/Deafness on a dragon but the dragon had blindsight so it could still see them within its blindsight range

Sdjz

@NautArch Thank you very much for this!

NautArch

@Yuuki Hmm, I may agree with that, though. Blindsight is a sight. Tremorsense is not.

Mage in the Barrel

vampires problem with that is what I was thinking of

NautArch

@Sdjz No worries. I figure I'm paying for the access and I may as well use it :)

goodguy5

@JeremyECrawford if a spell requires seeing your target(s), does perceiving them through blindsight suffice?

10:25 AM - 9 Mar 2018

Blindsight qualifies for anything in the D&D rules that requires you to see something, provided that thing is within your blindsight's radius. #DnDJeremy Crawford added,

Mage in the Barrel

2:14 PM

this
Sunlight Hypersensitivity. The vampire takes 20 radiant damage when it starts its turn in sunlight. While in sunlight, it has disadvantage on attack rolls and ability checks

but not so high damage

DucksGoMooful

that's hypersensitivity, there's also normal sensitivity like Drow have

John Clifford

He expanded on that too.

Unless the rules explicitly expand, narrow, or completely redefine a word, that word retains the meaning it has in idiomatic English. #DnD

Mage in the Barrel

yeah i know

Someone_Evil

I would like to remind everyone that his tweets are unofficial, and probably for good reason. Spur-of-the-moment, 140 character answer isn't guaranteed to cover all aspects of the rules.

DucksGoMooful

> Sunlight Sensitivity.While in sunlight, the drow has disadvantage on attack rolls, as well as on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight.

goodguy5

2:15 PM

And Drow (or other underground critters) have essentially no sun contact.

Does the magical darkness block UV rays?

John Clifford

^ In response to someone saying it depends on which definition of "see" you're using.

Mage in the Barrel

#### Albinism
Your skin and hair have no pigment and are pure white, as a result it's hard to concentrate when you are in direct sunlight, you have a disadvatage to attack rolls and rolls that involve using magic.

John Clifford

So if you can take that tweet as gospel, Blindsight is basically normal sight you can't turn off.

Yuuki

@goodguy5 Oh man, my warlock's definitely getting a pair of glasses enchanted with very minor magical darkness.

@JohnClifford So the counter to blindsight is to play R-rated clips of the blindsighted character's parents?

Or old people?

John Clifford

Hahahaha yes

Mage in the Barrel

2:18 PM

since their blind the wisdom checks that rely on sight is pointless

goodguy5

well, crawford tweets are no longer the same amount of RAW they once were, but yea.

Wait, if your blindsight is always on, does that make it harder or easier to sleep?

John Clifford

Asking the real questions

I kind of like the idea that people with Blindsight would be insomniacs because they can't stop noticing stuff around them.

goodguy5

Is it weird that I feel like blindsight shouldn't work on televisions?

DucksGoMooful

imo not weird

vicky_molokh

People get used to having hearing and smell always on. I'm sure they'll get used to a sight of sorts. ^_^

Rubiksmoose

2:21 PM

@goodguy5 Technically they were never actually RAW

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel I'm not saying you shouldn't create homebrew, but you may get better results once you get a better understanding of the overall game. The PHB is a great start, but homebrewing well is hard and without a solid foundation of mechanics of both the PHB, but the DMG/MM, etc. it can be hard to know if what you're planning is good or bad.

goodguy5

@Rubiksmoose *rats

GcL

@goodguy5 Does D&D have UV rays?

Mage in the Barrel

what about this "hellish screech: use your action to release a horiffying sound that reveals all of your suroundings withing a 60 ft radius"

GcL

@MageintheBarrel Sounds like some toddlers I know

John Clifford

2:22 PM

Was gonna say that sounds like my niece.

JohnP

@MageintheBarrel It seems like you are just going through the PHB and throwing spaghetti to see what sticks...

Mage in the Barrel

instead of regular sight of sourse

goodguy5

@MageintheBarrel was gonna say seems like a bonus action

Someone_Evil

@MageintheBarrel Would they have any other way of perceiving the world?

GcL

Childish screech: toddler uses it's action to release a horrifying sound that reveals all parents within a 60ft radius.

JohnP

2:23 PM

@GcL This. Many times this. I have boys of 4.5 and 3, and they get in dinosaur roaring battles.

Rubiksmoose

@MageintheBarrel Use action to gain a basic sense seems like an incredibly tedious and unfun mechanic

John Clifford

Are you actually creating this race for a game or just to get the idea out?

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel That should also just give you a snapshot for that moment. Once things move, you no longer know. Or you don't know if they've moved or not.

Joshua

Blindsight is a real thing. The guy is blind but not really. His eyes work, they can be used for motor control, but their linkage to higher brain functions is just not there.

Mage in the Barrel

that's something i just randomly thought of

and yes i'm creating this for a game

John Clifford

2:24 PM

"Sorry guys, I can't attack this round because I want to see."

Mage in the Barrel

so bonus action then

GcL

@JohnClifford Yeah... that would be super annoying... and ruin the action economy of the character.

Permanent disadvantage.

goodguy5

I agree that you should get more playtime under your belt.

Just skin another race how you want to and move forward.

drow, for example

Mage in the Barrel

#### Tremorsense (Replaces Bare Fangs)
The black forest swallows all light, you can perceive virbations in your surroundings without relying on eyesight within 20 ft but are blind outside of that range

John Clifford

Even as a bonus action that would possibly hamper your reaction options, so classes like Protection Fighter would get shafted a bit.

GcL

2:25 PM

@JohnClifford or any spell caster that has spells that involve "as a bonus action"

John Clifford

Right.

Someone_Evil

@JohnClifford "Protection Fighter"? Homebrew?

GcL

So... like all of them

Rubiksmoose

@JohnClifford And it would still have the issue that you wouldn't be able to see anything after that instant. So, readied actions and ongoing spell effects and coordinated startegies are basically non-starters.

John Clifford

A fighter with the protection fighting style.

Mage in the Barrel

2:25 PM

my dm doesn't want me reskining things

John Clifford

(so the reaction where you can use a shield to impose disadvantage on attack rolls for enemies attacking allies within 5 feet of you)

DucksGoMooful

I'm curious as to why not

GcL

@MageintheBarrel They'd rather have you invent new stuff?

Mage in the Barrel

like i made a reskin of the changling and they said it was to similar

GcL

How do they tell the difference between a wholly new creation and copy paste with the nouns changed?

John Clifford

2:26 PM

The DM should be able to account for what you're capable of doing. You shouldn't have to completely invent a race to be able to play.

goodguy5

^

Mage in the Barrel

they also said they were fine with changling normally soo

goodguy5

Would it be too forward for me to ask the ages of the involved parties?

GcL

Seriously. Narratively reskinning and leaving mechanics alone is the best way.

Mage in the Barrel

### Conceal Form
As an action, you can transform into your human for, revert to your fox form, or chose to change one feature from human to fox or vice versa. You revert to your natural form if you die or are knocked unconscious. Your appearance is given away by your reflection.

Even to the most astute observers, your ruse is usually indiscernible. If you rouse suspicion, or if a wary creature suspects something is amiss, you have advantage on any Charisma (Deception) check you make to avoid detection.

GcL

2:27 PM

@goodguy5 Seems irrelevant.

Yuuki

@MageintheBarrel Why not go with changeling then?

Mage in the Barrel

i literally had to go to this before they would approve

JohnP

@goodguy5 Mage has said in chat they are 22, so I would presume most around that age.

John Clifford

I've been DMing and playing D&D for years now and I would avoid completely homebrewing stuff if possible.

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel I'm not sure it's clear what you and your DM think "reskinning" is. Reskinning is mechanics don't change, but the fluff around them does.

Yuuki

2:28 PM

@JohnClifford I avoid homebrewing because I don't have fermentation-grade bottles and would rather not have things exploding in my kitchen.

NautArch

LIke you have an Elf. But you call it a Bob. And come up with lore around Bob, but mechanically, they're elves.

John Clifford

What exactly is your DM's objection to your race being "too similar" to Changeling? Like why do they care?

Mage in the Barrel

idk?

Sir Cinnamon

Being against reskinning is a weird stance for sure.

John Clifford

@Yuuki It's all about the still for me.

goodguy5

2:29 PM

@SirCinnamon that

Mage in the Barrel

i can ask em later

GcL

@Yuuki Your local university surplus is your friend there. Lab equipment makes excellent home brew equipment.

NautArch

@SirCinnamon I"m still unclear that we're all working off the same definition of 'reskin'

Someone_Evil

@MageintheBarrel How much DM (or player) experience does your DM have?

John Clifford

I'd honestly go to the DM and tell them a bunch of irrelevant people who probably think they know more about D&D than they actually do said they were being an idiot and should let you use your race as originally presented.

goodguy5

2:30 PM

Yea!

DucksGoMooful

(maybe in nicer terms than that)

Rubiksmoose

Just as a note, let's not jump down their throats here. I think that most of us here acknowledge that this is a strange position and one contrary to the way we'd run things. It doesn't mean it is wrong per se (not to mention there is nothing they can do about what their DM thinks really)

goodguy5

You send them here and we'll give them the whatfor

John Clifford

XD of course in nicer terms than that, I was employing just a pinch of hyperbole.

Someone_Evil

@goodguy5 Put your pitchfork away :p

Rubiksmoose

2:31 PM

But I also don't understand how you can be against reskinning.

GcL

@MageintheBarrel Well, if they want homebrew but no reskinning, take the changeling stuff you like... alter the description... and maybe throw in some other OP mechanics to give the DM something to cross off. They'll feel like they did their job. Movie directors used to do something similar by putting over the top scenes to give the censors something to cut.

G. Moylan

@Rubiksmoose perhaps the DM didn't see the need to brew anything since the Changeling already has established, balanced rules

GcL

@Rubiksmoose Maybe they don't like it.

John Clifford

But then take my words with a pinch of salt: I allowed my druid to use Shillelagh on a sickle that they narratively changed into a kama instead, and my cleric wanted dead frogs on sticks as a weapon instead of a mace so her attack is called George and Sparkles.

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel Can you describe what you mean by your reskin?

Someone_Evil

2:32 PM

@Rubiksmoose There is some idea which says the Lore is important and unchangeable. The books disagree though.

Mage in the Barrel

gimme a bit to grab my older version

Yuuki

@SirCinnamon Look, I find taxidermy extremely weird.

goodguy5

@Someone_Evil eh hem, it's clearly a trident

Someone_Evil

But if you follow that idea reskinning things become "wrong"

John Clifford

At the end of the day as long as everyone in the game has fun it doesn't matter one bit which parts you change.

GcL

2:32 PM

@Yuuki More of a sculpture purist?

Rubiksmoose

@Someone_Evil But it is then weird to combine that with the idea that inventing new things is completely fine.

Mage in the Barrel

dndbeyond.com/races/172091-kitsune

GcL

@Rubiksmoose People are weird. Meet them where they are.

G. Moylan

@Rubiksmoose I get the feeling we aren't getting the whole picture.

DucksGoMooful

if your DM is going to approve it as long as it's not reskinned, maybe you should just get as much over-powered abilities in as you can?

Someone_Evil

2:33 PM

@Rubiksmoose I guess adding new stuff is different to changing preexisting ones

Rubiksmoose

@GcL I mean that is what I was trying to encourage explicitly there. Saying "I don't understand" is not the same as saying "this is bad" or "you are wrong". I just am not seeing the mentality here and I don't really need to honestly since I am not playing.

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel And you're saying that's a reskin of a Changeling?

John Clifford

I mean if the players don't already have intimate knowledge of the setting/lore, why would it matter if the DM changed a few things up here and there? Likewise, if a player wants to customise some lore for their character, there's probably a way to justify it.

Mage in the Barrel

for the most part

the ability they had qualms with was

also they approved of it than after reading in detail changed their mind

John Clifford

Which ability did they have qualms with?

G. Moylan

2:35 PM

@MageintheBarrel .....?

Mage in the Barrel

change form

G. Moylan

Change appearance?

Mage in the Barrel

yeah

which is just like my father all over again

goodguy5

wat

Mage in the Barrel

my father changes his mind a lot

NautArch

2:36 PM

@MageintheBarrel So...its not a reskin.

goodguy5

oh

Mage in the Barrel

sorry reskin of a changling ability

G. Moylan

@NautArch if you want to get literal, it technically is. :P

JohnP

@MageintheBarrel - You need to sit down with your DM and discuss this out. Right now it's running back and forth with a lot of misunderstood "he said she said".

G. Moylan

@JohnP I agree with this. @MageintheBarrel it sounds like you're coming here for validation over why your content is "perfectly fine" and your dm is "wrong to turn you down." You really should sit down a discuss with them

JohnP

2:38 PM

If your DM has experience, just tell them what you want to do, and they should be able to say "Ok, you want mechanic X, Y and Z, Q is the best way to go about that".

goodguy5

^troof

John Clifford

I can't really see why the DM would object to an ability that's more restrictive: if I'm reading it right you basically have Change Appearance only you can only be a fox. But yeah, I think you need to discuss this with them.

Someone_Evil

Please also keep in mind that the Changeling, as part of Eberron, isn't final/fully published, so it is fine for you DM to dislike an ability of theirs. Also that there are final/published races which aren't universally allowed (see Aarackocra and Adventurer's League)

Mage in the Barrel

the rejected the original ability

not the currect on homebrewery

JohnP

@MageintheBarrel And did they give a reason why? Or did you just go off and start changing other stuff?

G. Moylan

2:39 PM

@MageintheBarrel If you truly think your DM made a mistake in their judgement, you need to talk it out with them. We have zero influence on the situation

Mage in the Barrel

they said it was too similar

G. Moylan

and coming to the DM going "these people on the internet say you're wrong" isn't a good way to start that conversation

4

Mage in the Barrel

not to be rude but i'm curious why would weren't okay with your reskin of my changingling did you want me to change the mechinics, were you just not okay with me paraphrasing, or did you not like the fact that i added as full shapshift as well as the beast form?

thats what i asked them

G. Moylan

you need to work it out with them. We don't enter into the conversation. Asking us to take sides on an issue like this is only going to exacerbate the situation

John Clifford

Not much you can do until they respond, really.

Mage in the Barrel

2:42 PM

yeah i'm waiting on that

John Clifford

On an unrelated note, can anyone think of any potential DM pitfalls I might have opened up for myself later by allowing the druid to Shillelagh her sickle?

goodguy5

@G.Moylan but I love exacerbating the situation.

G. Moylan

@goodguy5 ahhh a fellow instigator

goodguy5

I'm an on-demand pot-stirring detective.

Insta-gator instigator investigator

JohnP

@JohnClifford Not off hand, but I'm not that familiar with 5e. Maybe giving it magical might bite you a bit? And you change the damage dice, iirc. Shillelagh is d8, sickle d4.

goodguy5

2:47 PM

@JohnClifford shouldn't be anything important.

Someone_Evil

@JohnP It can do the same to light club, which is eq to sickle except for damage type

JohnP

@Someone_Evil Yeah, that was a stretch, but it's about the only diff I can think of.

Someone_Evil

@JohnClifford Flavour (if you or anyone cares), damage type (which shouldn't be major) and possible precedent which should be solvable by stating it as an explicit exception made

goodguy5

I mean, generally, physical damage types don't matter.

Someone_Evil

The danger could be if they go "well if I can do it with the sickle, why not a whip", or this magical frying pan, etc.

Sir Cinnamon

2:50 PM

@goodguy5 but skeletons!

goodguy5

why not the magical frying pan?

Someone_Evil

@goodguy5 The are a very few, niche things that care, but not enough to worry anyone

goodguy5

@SirCinnamon butt skeletons (don't google at work. drawings of butts, apparently. who knew?)

Someone_Evil

@goodguy5 I'm not saying you can't do other exceptions, but you might not want the frying pan to be shillelagh'd. It could hurt its feelings.

John Clifford

She seems pretty attached to using her kama as a weapon so I don't think that'll be a problem.

Mage in the Barrel

2:52 PM

well i asked my dm he said that he was stating his opinion from the player perpective and he's fine with it as a dm

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel I do want to say that in general, and especially with DMs/players that are new to the game, it is best to stick with the standard options. It just makes it a lot easier for everyone involved.

goodguy5

how strong would a Magical Frying pan that was a +1 weapon and gave +1 AC be?
one handed d4?

a la Tangled.

Mage in the Barrel

since that's cleared up i'll get to work on my drow reskin

Someone_Evil

@goodguy5 Considered a simple, martial, or improvised weapon?

Mage in the Barrel

without changing things this time

G. Moylan

2:53 PM

@goodguy5 can you wear it on your backside for advantage on saving your butt?

Mage in the Barrel

still think tremorse is cooler tho

goodguy5

@G.Moylan Nah, like, if you wield it.

JohnP

@JohnClifford that was my competition weapon for a couple years.

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel As long as no mechanics actually change

But in general, I"d really suggest focusing more on learning the raw mechanics for your character rather than trying to homebrew something.

JohnP

@MageintheBarrel You need to stop thinking about "what would be cool" and think about "what would work and be cool".

G. Moylan

2:55 PM

@MageintheBarrel tremorsense is cool but so is a beholder with eye rays. Being cool doesn't make the ability suited for PC use

Mage in the Barrel

true

i guess i could say the black forest curse just makes it night 24/7

goodguy5

@MageintheBarrel perfect

Mage in the Barrel

so darksight and light sources still work

Someone_Evil

@goodguy5 In terms of rarity, I think around rare. A +1 club isn't very exciting, but trading light for +1 AC is fairly hefty. Sounds fun on a Cleric I think.

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel Your kitsune does diverge from the Changeling with the Fox Form.

John Clifford

2:58 PM

Is 5e druid still essentially invincible at 20th level btw?

goodguy5

@JohnClifford I always thought it seemed so. specifically the moon druid

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