TRPG General Chat

12:00 AM

Lol

Yeah I didn't think of that

That was totally something i should have half expected

Of course, do keep in mind there are different types of players and playstyles. Some will expect more structure than others. Some may expect full control over the plot's direction, others may sit back and wait for you to put monsters in front of them. Suggestion: Learn your players' styles, and then try to cater your DM hands-on-ness appropriately.

trogdor

That's true

You do need to know what the players expect In those terms

BESW

Yeah. Another thing I've done is start the session with the party standing next to a bulletin board of HELP WANTED posters, and they'd choose which to answer.

And of course there's the traditional White Wolf Vampire approach, where the Storyteller often has trouble getting independently powerful and self-absorbed PCs to not kill each other, much less work together: so you have a stupidly powerful NPC show up, demonstrate that he could kill them all without breaking a sweat, and then yell at them until they follow the ST's plot to the letter.

I'm not a fan of that approach, but it's definitely A Thing People Do Which Seems To Work For Them.

MikeQ

Similarly, the DM for a D&D session could bring along a megaphone, and shout "RULE ZERO! YOU HAVE TO LISTEN TO ME!" whenever the PCs go off-script.

(Don't actually do this)

MikeQ

12:18 AM

@Regress.arg Structure-wise, a decent compromise is to establish what must (or should) be done, but not how the PCs should do it. And definitely avoid outcome-specific bottlenecks.

If you're a relatively new DM, and you plan on running a "full" campaign, I'd suggest aiming for a short campaign with its own story and measurable end-point. If the players approach the end, you can start filing in the details for the sequel arc, which becomes Act II. And so on.

When planning a long-form campaign, it's often tempting to plan out multiple arcs and scheduled plot points, as if writing a book. But there are too many unknowns that make this typically infeasible.

Regress.arg

Have any of you started a campaign in a city, and how detailed did you make that city to begin with?

In terms of NPCs, locations, geographies, etc

BESW

12:33 AM

Yes, and I've run the gamut from extreme detail to "I know a bit about the room we're starting in."

But part of that is because my GMing style has become much more interested in asking my players to help create things as we play, rather than presenting them with my own work fait accompli.

MikeQ

Similar here. Tried different approaches with different degrees of success. Early on, my process was to plan out a linear progression of rooms for the PCs to visit, and put excruciating detail into those rooms. Got flustered whenever the players try to go anywhere else. So don't do this.

More recently, my process for a city is: Roughly divide the city into districts. For each district, plan the types of buildings/industries/shops/people that are typically found there. Include notable structures and NPCs, if any. Sprinkle in some more detail as needed. Then improvise.

BESW

My recent urban campaigns have involved pulling up Google Maps and marking stuff on it.

Joshua

Well I planned to fill out the map with all the maintenance shafts, etc. and the magma pools just in case somebody wanted to dig the walls. (Dungeon was powered by magma)

BESW

On the subject of session prep, mission briefings and brain storms are amazing.

All I have to do is present a vague mission/goal type thing, and then have them do a Mission Briefing scene. I take a few minutes to arrange something accordingly, and we're off! If a big question about what's going on arises during the session, I call for a Brainstorm and they tell me what's going on.

I haven't given any thought to how that would adapt to D&D; it's certainly philosophically radical regardless of mechanical feasibility.

MikeQ

12:49 AM

For designing environments for D&Dish games, I'd suggest peeking at TheAngryGM's blog for advice

nitsua60

1:08 AM

@MikeQ I like to uncomfortably split the two styles (in your campaign) by trying to be clear that I'm not really going to do much prep beyond being intimately familiar with the hardcover. Thus emerges (I believe) "you can feel free to interact with anything, but there are directions you can go in which the map will fail to render."

Shalvenay

hey there @nitsua60

nitsua60

Hiya.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 how're things going? got a bit of time?

nitsua60

Grading two tests in the next 1h45m, hopefully.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 ah, still with the grading. was hoping to catch you here so I could brief you on what happened with the dungeon after you left the game (as there was a room you missed)

user15026

1:19 AM

@BESW one of the two times I played DnD I played a.... Crap, don't recall exactly but some sort of fighter and my response to anything was "can I hit it?

user15026

And part of me wonders if me who is now would do differently

user15026

(sorry, hands are being frustrating)

V2Blast

I think I've found all the relevant 5e questions about Sanctuary and either commented to suggesting updating post-errata or left my own answer accordingly :)

trogdor

@Ash well honestly I think that is largely due to what the game guides you to ask

If all the options fighters get are "can I hit that thing" that's all you might think about possibly

That's almost all I did when I played a 3.5 fighter

The I think,... One time I ever did that

user15026

1:38 AM

Yeah, I felt like that was all I could do. I mean I picked the class I did because I pick melee types in just about everything (heck my wow main is a kul tiran human warrior for a similar reason)

user15026

growls

user15026

I like melee fighter types because it is often less numbers and details to hold

trogdor

Same here

Or at least it used to be like that for me anyway

I liked being the guy it took extra work to take down so my first and mostly main character in WoW was a Tauren Warrior

And my first D&D character was a fighter for a similar reason ,partly because it seemed simplest

nitsua60

@Shalvenay T/Th evenings, maybe--not so much tonight or Wed or Fri.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 will try tomorrow night then

trogdor

1:48 AM

But I learned later in WoW after trying different classes I really liked making other people's health bars go back up so I rolled several classes that could heal and my troll priest became basically a second main

I think sometimes we forget that if we try something new we might like it XD

Because that's been the case for me, and I've occasionally observed it of other people

Not to say we constantly have to though, that would be tiring

Ben

2:03 AM

Afternoon by 3 minutes all

In Brisbane this week for my sister's wedding :)

trogdor

Ah nice

Greetings and congratulations from the tiny island above Australia's pointy horn then

XD

MikeQ

That could be Antarctica depending on how you hold the map

trogdor

Lol

Antarctica is tiny?

XD

MikeQ

Like I said, it depends how you hold the map

trogdor

Fair enough

Lol

user15026

2:13 AM

@trogdor this is why I am trying a Tauren Shaman. I like it so far.

user15026

@Ben oh, fun! Congrats to her!

trogdor

Cool

I never played a Shaman

One of the only classes I never tried in fact

user15026

I am bad at remembering I don't have to walk up to something to boop it's nose

trogdor

Ah, even as a fighter I would usually evaluate whether I should use the charge move or throw a dagger or something to engage

Must be because I got so used to making that call as a tank

And even questing it would make the difference between agroing too many mobs or not

Shalvenay

hey there @Jadasc

user15026

2:44 AM

@trogdor I am very used to just DPS run in and hit it once it's grabbed

Shalvenay

@trogdor at least you didn't have to worry about the mobs sticking a curtain in the middle of the room on you, with half of them hiding behind the curtain, even though that was not an intentional part of the map design ;)

trogdor

@Shalvenay lol

What?

@Ash that's definitely a nasty DPS habit

Shalvenay

...the equivalent thing actually happened to me once in EVE Online -- was running a site, and only half the spawns showed up to play initially, or so it seemed....until we burned in, and found the rest of them hiding off of our initial landing "grid"

trogdor

But I also kinda loved it because I was apparently pretty good at keeping agro

Shalvenay

@trogdor yeah, learning how "traditional" CRPG PvE works has actually been one of the steepest learning curves for me in NWN, of all games, because I hadn't been exposed to it before to speak of

trogdor

2:51 AM

@Shalvenay it's definitely something that takes some personal experience to learn

Shalvenay

@trogdor it's something I think that people largely....assume that folks know these days, even? (at least, that to some degree has been my experience, but the NWN MP stuff I've done has been on servers ranging from "not exactly easymode" to "moderatly hardcore"

trogdor

I would say a lot of people assume things like that all the time

Myself included

It's hard not to assume other people know certain things that you have known for a long time

Shalvenay

@trogdor that is quite true indeed

user15026

@trogdor I mean I don't pull, I know better, I just know I am tough to squash so once I can hit, I do. (although honestly I avoid a lot of dungeons/raids that require non-friend humans)

V2Blast

relevant xkcd:

Saying 'what kind of an idiot doesn't know about the Yellowstone supervolcano' is so much more boring than telling someone about the Yellowstone supervolcano for the first time.

user15026

2:56 AM

@V2Blast I love this comic because that's how we should approach this stuff

trogdor

@Ash that's fair, I didn't go into dungeons a lot myself until they made it way easier to find a casual group who doesn't want to talk to me and mostly wanted me just to tank/ heal well

@V2Blast @Ash yes indeed

linksassin

@V2Blast If more people took this approach the world would be a better place.

Ben

It's certainly a way to re-experience everything for the first time

user15026

3:14 AM

@trogdor I mostly just don't trust myself to be actually decent enough for people

user15026

(plus a lot of raids especially are sensory hell. Dungeons are pretty bad too a lot)

linksassin

How are we meant to handle questions where enforcing site policy would be a certain detriment to the user as a person. For instance, this question is clearly not something we can answer. But closing it may drive the user away from rpgs entirely. I tried to leave a sympathetic comment and vtc but I'm don't know if that's the best way to handle these.

trogdor

3:32 AM

@Ash that's all fair enough too, they don't usually trigger my sensory stuff, for me that's mostly audio

(like something that's too loud, a bad frequency, too many people talking)

The Oracle

0

Q: Should questions about dice be on-topic?

Over in another meta thread, there is a conversation about a particular question regarding dice-rolling outside of an RPG context. I suggest you read that thread first, but to boil it down to the basic points: RPG.SE is probably the best place we know of to get an answer for that sort of question...

discussion

trogdor

Though I have to admit flickering lights distract me, and lights that are too bright also really mess me up

But that doesn't happen as often I guess

user15026

Mine are super visual or textures

user15026

(I have a lot of weirdness about the colour blue)

trogdor

Ah yeah

Wow dungeons have a lot of weird visual stuff going on

@Ash huh interesting,

I don't have any of that at all to do with any color

user15026

3:49 AM

(ooooh that's probably why so much of like looking at water or island stuff makes me wobble....)

trogdor

Sounds though, if you play/make a sound I don't like it's pretty bad

user15026

Blue light shifts and wiggles and doesn't sit still for me

trogdor

It's even worse when I see no one else being bothered by it or doing anything to make it stop

That's pretty paralyzing actually

@Ash oh you know for me shadows do that a little

Not colors though

It's especially weird if it's something that does move though because then I can't tell if it's my brain doing that or the thing actually moving

Jadasc

@Shalvenay Hey. :)

user15026

I can do sounds easier but fabric textures and food textures are problems, blue light is hard,

trogdor

3:54 AM

(in fact it just happens less if the thing isn't moving but it still like,.. it moves just a little sometimes in a way it shouldn't, or else I'm just really sensitive to shadows moving, I'm not sure which really)

@Ash I do like certain textures better than others, but I also like touching cold things (especially metal left in air on that gets really cold)

But I don't run into too many textures I don't like

But you know those nightclub scenes in movies where the lights strobe and flicker? Hate that

That makes it annoying and hard to pay attention to anything

trogdor

4:11 AM

Sorry everyone this room has been confiscated fir the use of weird sensory details we need a new one for RPG stuff XP

user15026

@trogdor strobe lights are rude.

trogdor

Yes

They very much are and I hate them

user15026

I don't like socks and seams and things, I hate mittens, I like softness and smoothness and fluffy things. I dislike scritchy things (my djellaba is a weird exception, it's soft and scritchy)

trogdor

It's especially egregious because they always seem to put something visually important happening in the nightclub scenes

user15026

I like weighty things. (I want a weighed blanket some day)

user15026

4:18 AM

@trogdor which is extra rude, because how are you supposed to focus.

trogdor

Oh a weighted blanket sounds extremely good

Also actually seams,... I wouldn't say I hate them but they don't give the best sensation

user15026

I feel like it would be. I emulate it with many heavy quilts but then I get too warm.

trogdor

@Ash exactly

@Ash yeah I only use one but it's always open somewhere because it's not held down by anything and then it gets too cold

But multiple would make it waaaaasyyyyy too warm here

user15026

@trogdor yeah I can imagine. It works when it is minus 30 C here lol

trogdor

Yep doesn't get that cold here

Pretty sure

user15026

4:23 AM

That's something like minus 22 F

user15026

So yeah I don't think you do that

trogdor

Pretty sure it's never minus anything here

user15026

I only like winter for the like....parts where I can be inside and cozy

trogdor

@Ash in F we are usually between 70 and high 80s

Which is probably part of why I like touching cold things

user15026

Hm, I would struggle with the higher end, my skin gets crawly

linksassin

4:25 AM

@Ash What are these 'minus' temperatures you speak of? I think it's cold here at the moment when it's 6C overnight.

user15026

@trogdor I am paranoid of getting stuck to the cold things

user15026

(the whole don't lick a flagpole in winter principle)

user15026

@linksassin canadaaaaaaaaaa

trogdor

@Ash yeah if that had ever happened to me it would be different for sure

user15026

I like some cold things to touch but mostly I like smooth things or varied things (like my stims are all like varied textures or spins or clicks)

linksassin

4:27 AM

@Ash Right... re-evaluating my plans to visit there one day.

Anything less that 20C is jumper weather here.

user15026

(I try not to use the clicks during Feast or other such things where people want more quiet hands but sometimes I forget)

trogdor

@Ash that's pretty similar for me actually, I like something smooth that then ends abruptly leading to a click that connects it to another smooth thing

user15026

@linksassin Hahaha it reminds me of Christmas in Atlanta where I was like omg it's 10C thats pretty much tshirt weather with maybe a light coat

BESW

trogdor

Like dentist chairs

user15026

4:28 AM

@trogdor I have this snake thing that is very satisfying clicky links!

trogdor

The arm parts

user15026

@trogdor oooh yes.

linksassin

@Ash Lol christmas a couple of years ago was 46C.

trogdor

@Ash oooh I had something like that! I lost it though

user15026

Friends let me stim off of this fantastic wood carving (something in Arabic, the Arabic was smooth and the other bits were rough and I could tap and poke and scritchy)

linksassin

4:30 AM

@BESW Where is this mythical place of perfect weather?

BESW

@linksassin Home!

user15026

@trogdor I don't know if Stimtastic ships to Guam but they have good stims and chewies for decent prices.

user15026

@BESW I would just be a basking lizard all the time

trogdor

@Ash they are also usually cold so all in all I have a much less anxious time at the Dentist office than I might otherwise XD

V2Blast

@BESW ooooh

user15026

4:31 AM

@trogdor that's awesome.

BESW

However:

linksassin

@BESW How's the humidity though?

BESW

user15026

(I realized I can freeze my chewy necklace so it is cold for chewing on, that was a revelation.)

trogdor

@BESW yes drop the other shoes

user15026

4:32 AM

@BESW fat me says oooooh nooo

trogdor

It's extremely humid here

Even in dry season

user15026

My weird tiny baby lung branches say noooo

trogdor

@Ash mm I don't really like chewing on things unless I'm gonna eat it

BESW

We've usually got some good wind through.

user15026

(premature birth means my lungs are weird, the nurse says I have svrubby bushes where I shod have strong trees)

BESW

4:34 AM

user15026

@trogdor chewing for me is an anxiety response, it saves me from self harm responses!

trogdor

In fact that's part of why I am so glad to have practically perfect stims at dentists offices because sticking non food in my mouth upsets me a lot

@Ash fair enough

user15026

@trogdor I can see how that would be tricky!

trogdor

Yeah

That's like, what you go there for

XD

user15026

Yeaaaaah

user15026

4:36 AM

There are too many textures for me to be cool with dentists

trogdor

Thankfully those chair arms have the right quality apparently everywhere

Or at least here anyway

user15026

That's awesome.

trogdor

@Ash visual textures, felt textures or both?

user15026

@trogdor both, mostly tactile.

trogdor

Tactile that's the word

user15026

4:39 AM

I'm very kinetic, like I handflap and twitch and move a lot

trogdor

I move my legs around a lot of I don't have them in a position I like

I'm usually doing something specific with my arms but they also tend to move if I'm not

user15026

(I am teaching my local Baha'i community that handflaps are a joyful act and they are....working on being chill with that. I appreciate the attempts. Like I was full body happy flap joy during the reading of the most recent Ridvan message and once people realized I was happy and not distressed they thought it was awesome)

trogdor

Cool

If I'm extremely excited about something I might jitter a bit if people are around

I don't flap in front of people though

V2Blast

I can't say I've ever flapped

trogdor

Maybe a little if I'm literally alone at home and running around

user15026

4:42 AM

@trogdor I usually don't! But I am trying to just be my authenticity self with my Baha'i community because thays kinda the point I guess

trogdor

@V2Blast not even to pretend you were flying?

user15026

Besides that stuff brings up so many emotions I can't not sometimes

V2Blast

@trogdor ...I don't think so?

user15026

@V2Blast it for me is a "I can't hold this joy so I literally gotta release the valve and that's why I flap"

The Oracle

0

Q: Why was this question closed as too broad?

How can wizards gain more spells per day? This question was closed as too broad, and I disagree with that flag. The question is quite narrow in terms of scope, nor would any answer that limits itself to the system have to be too broad. Now the question itself is poorly written, and it would m...

discussion specific-question closed-questions

user15026

4:44 AM

(negative emotions are more like handwringing twisty rubbing my skin off)

trogdor

@Ash that's fair, I don't think I'm usually excited about something I'm not currently occupied with, so I'm usually actually doing something and am not making movements not involved with it

So instead of releasing it that way it's usually automatic for me

user15026

Makes sense!

trogdor

Though I've noticed if I'm listening to music I like I move more

There isn't anything else to do if that's all I'm doing

user15026

Music is a super kinetic experience for me.

user15026

I like moving

trogdor

4:46 AM

Makes sense

I'm kinda embarrassed to move if people can see me

user15026

I have worked super hard to not feel shame in that sense

trogdor

Mm I have not

user15026

I have too much fun. I dance and sing while I walk and it just makes me happy. So I do.

trogdor

I just avoid it instead

V2Blast

I'm very rarely outwardly emotional

user15026

4:48 AM

(if I feel pleased and joyful it's easier for me to ignore people, I know I am weird, I don't really care about that kinetic weirdness)

trogdor

@V2Blast same here

@Ash that's extremely great

user15026

Emotional stuff though especially around interpersonal skills? Super hard.

user15026

@trogdor it took effort but I am proud of that.

trogdor

@Ash I agree, but that's actually something I've worked really hard on

I can fake interpersonal stuff, emotional responses people expect from you day to day that I'm not currently feeling at the time

user15026

My brain spiders fight me hard.

trogdor

4:51 AM

Because instead I'm usually feeling " why you talk to me out of nowhere person I've never met?"

With people I actually know I can be much more "real"

user15026

Strangers I can do. Humans I know is harder.

user15026

I can talk to bus humans, my friends I am like oooooooooh noooooooo

trogdor

Strangers are the worst

user15026

See I just go oh well I won't see you again so

trogdor

If someone is my friend that should mean they understand me to some degree

So if they don't that reflects on them, not me

user15026

4:54 AM

Whereas like....trying to sit myself into the Baha'i community and trust my new friends has been a struggle, not because they're bad at it but because I just don't trust people to be honest I guess and I expect them to see all my flaws and go ooooohnooooooo

trogdor

The worst is people I've met before who's face I remember but who I don't see enough to remember thier names though

user15026

@trogdor I haaaaaate this

trogdor

They are in the worst spot between strangers and expectation

user15026

I am like "I know you! Except I dont! But I do!"

trogdor

@Ash the worst

And then they always remember my name

user15026

4:55 AM

And it's worse when they like only have to learn you when you are new but you have to learn so many faces and names

trogdor

Without freaking fail

user15026

Yeeeesah

trogdor

And I don't know thier name

And if they confront me I have to say so

GAAAAHH

user15026

It's the worst so worst worst

user15026

A lot of people at Feast keep asking me if I rmemebers them and I am like yes but that doesn't mean I know you

trogdor

4:58 AM

Yeah

I remember people fine

Faces are in the brain tank forever

Names don't like it in there

user15026

Amen to that.

user15026

I know my own name most of the time does that count

user15026

(also this conversation reminded me I need to replace my spinner ring I lost)

BESW

Oh right is that the one that snapped while spinning and went flying across the room never to be seen again?

trogdor

@Ash there are people I used to spend lots of time with who are not here anymore because they moved, and now I don't remember most of thier names anymore

@BESW oh wow

V2Blast

5:04 AM

@trogdor same

user15026

@BESW yep it's goooone and I am sad. I have even cleaned up super well and I still don't know where it is

BESW

Maybe Norbert ate it.

user15026

Like it just went somewhere and maybe there is a pocket black hole in my apartment that took it

trogdor

@V2Blast I figure a lot of us have this problem but usually not the people who I run into :/

user15026

@BESW I think he would have expressed displeasure about that by now

trogdor

5:07 AM

Or you would have found it in the uh, sandbox at some point

V2Blast

@trogdor There was one person in the theater club in college whom I only ever saw at parties... so I always forgot her name

user15026

Hahaha yes also that

user15026

I am now debating if I want the dinosaur one again or a different one

user15026

I do like my cute Dinos

trogdor

@V2Blast yep, I'm running into people who my parents know or who met me one on a class or wtv it happens to be

user15026

5:08 AM

@trogdor and they know you and you are like hello...fellow....humab

user15026

At least you can be reasonably sure you share that trait

V2Blast

@trogdor I remember approximately 0.05 percent of the people that know me through family (whether extended family members, family friends, people who visited that one time 2 years ago). If it weren't for my parents I'd be hopelessly confused

It's the worst when they ask "do you remember me?" and I can't be honest and say "I assume we met at some point but I don't remember it at all"

trogdor

Yes,...I am a humnan likze you, of course normal humnam things to talk about, don't ask me if I remember you you are ruining my disguise

@V2Blast yep, I try to tell the truth when that happens but thier reactions always suck even when they take it in stride

user15026

@trogdor stop looking behind this fantastic velvet curtain noooo don't look there

trogdor

@Ash yes of course because we all happen to be humans, no reason to think otherwise right? No lizards around here no way no how, I would definitely tell you

Yes sure is nice to be one of those humans

user15026

5:13 AM

@trogdor yeah of course why is there even any douuuuubt

user15026

Yes human being is so good yes this meat suit is so cozy

user15026

I mean

trogdor

XD

No need to assume I'm just using my lizard camouflage powers to look like this, that would be absurd

user15026

Exactly, who would ever do such a thing not me this perfectly normal human

kviiri

5:38 AM

Mornin'

linksassin

5:50 AM

@kviiri Afternoon. How's it going?

kviiri

@linksassin En route to work, hoping it'd rain today to clear out the dust and pollen

linksassin

@kviiri Allergy season there is it?

kviiri

Yep

linksassin

Ouch.

kviiri

Birch, mainly. It's one of my favorite trees apart from this part :)

But eh, second-gen antihistamines do their thing quite well

And they're over-the-counter nowadays. Ten years ago one'd need a prescription for all but the smallest doses

How about there?

linksassin

6:10 AM

It's probably the best time of year to allergies actually. End of autumn into winter soon.

kviiri

6:34 AM

I feel a bit socially deprived

Haven't played board games or TTRPGs in a while again :/

V2Blast

I recently convinced my friends to get Betrayal at House on the Hill

I hadn't played it since college

the first haunt we ended up playing was one that had no traitors to start out with

which was somewhat confusing at first, but it worked out well since it meant there wasn't one player who'd never played before stuck trying to figure out what they were even doing

kviiri

hehe

BESW

in Board and Card Games, Jan 4 '18 at 21:03, by BESW

@OneEyedBandit Hi! After a few games of Betrayal my friends got frustrated by scenarios that were overly complex and/or felt like one side or the other had very little chance of success. The game was still fun enough that we wanted to continue playing, so I did some Googling and found these custom haunts. By replacing the default haunt books with the custom ones, we increased our already-high enjoyment of the game immensely!

kviiri

We once played Shadows Over Camelot and had a bit of a dilemma in that one player REALLY wanted to be the traitor and of course it doesn't really work if we just give that to him

V2Blast

for that haunt, everyone except the one holding the Holy Symbol had to start their turn with a Sanity roll. I ended up failing my Sanity rolls and being turned into the traitor... but for that haunt, the traitor(s) had to make a Might roll at the start of each turn; if they failed, they lost 1 Might and couldn't move that turn. my character had low Might to begin with, so I failed 3 turns in a row and died.

we also managed to start the haunt very early in the game, before the house had been built out very much; my character was the first to even go to the upper floor, and nobody had been to the basement at first. they'd explored maybe 8 rooms at most outside the starting area, I think

so getting to the summoning chamber (or whatever) was pretty easy for them, since it was just 2 rooms from the basement stairs and they were all close to the starting area

trogdor

6:43 AM

ugh yeah a lot of the default scenarios are rubbish

I got one where I had a ring of invisibility and was trying to steal stuff from everyone and kill them, but that's all I got,... nothing making me stronger, they just didn't know what room I was in,.... and I didn't even know they had ways of finding it out

V2Blast

there should be a mechanic for not starting the haunt until a certain number of rounds in, so there's actually room to explore

trogdor

so I died fast right after I tried to steal one thing

it seems like a lot of the haunts are horribly weighted one way or the other

there was another where the traitor got minions who respawned and who they could control

so they sat them all guarding the room we needed to get to to stop the bad stuff

MikeQ

There's a Betrayal at Baldur's Gate for those who think flavoring the original game as D&D will make it more... something. From experience, some of the scenarios are even wackier than the original, since all the player options have extra combat abilities.

trogdor

and they hid there too to guard it as a last resort and also so we couldn't just kill them

V2Blast

6:56 AM

@MikeQ I assume wackier is bad in this context?

MikeQ

Sort of? It depends. Wackier in the sense that there's a larger quantity of stuff going on, and less of a semblance of traitor-vs-others balance.

Or possibly the designers didn't consider how certain scenario elements would interact with certain board setups

V2Blast

ah, I see

MikeQ

In one scenario, the traitor could spawn a bunch of kobolds per turn in the lower floor, and then control their kobold army each round, guiding them toward a destination in the upper floor. This edition has only 2 floors, not 3.

Except they could spawn kobolds faster than we could destroy them, and their spawn point was right next to the floor-to-floor passage. So they only had to "march" the army 1 square. So the other players all stood in that square, defending it while the kobold army quickly built up in the adjacent square.

linksassin

@MikeQ @V2Blast You are breaking the primary rule of Betrayal. Don't tell people about the haunts. That ways they are new and fresh the first time you play it.

:P

V2Blast

except for this haunt, everyone starts out knowing the heroes' goal, since they all are still heroes at the start

I never mentioned what the traitor's goal was :P

MikeQ

7:09 AM

Fine. As for a not-haunt-specific issue, the items are based on powerful D&D items. So players who find items early, they tend to find more items quickly, while the others tend to lag behind. Positive feedback loop.

linksassin

@MikeQ Positive feedback loops are definitely an issue with that game. I've played multiple haunts where the heroes either had the stuff they needed at the time of the betrayal or they simply couldn't win.

I've also played some where the traitor had literally no chance of winning. Unless the heroes took complete leave of their senses.

I think with the amount of replayability it is difficult to sufficiently playtest every haunt and a bunch of them are poorly balanced.

But when they are, its a brilliant game.

MikeQ

It can be. From what I've seen, most of the excitement comes from the dice or lucky/unlucky streaks, rather than space for particularly clever strategies or player coordination.

linksassin

@MikeQ Accurate. I had one game where we failed the first haunt roll. The traitor had to work with the party to discover more rooms because neither could complete their goals. Another time we were basically running out of rooms before failing a roll. Pure chance definitely is part of the fun.

V2Blast

@linksassin for our game, we had to search the room deck for both the room that caused people to become traitors and the room that the heroes were trying to reach

linksassin

@V2Blast Yep, a lot of the haunts have that. But not all.

kviiri

7:57 AM

So in this game, is the role of the traitor fixed or can it change?

I'm frankly bored of games with the traitor mechanic, but having the traitor change over gameplay through some mechanic might be intriguing

MikeQ

8:24 AM

@kviiri When the traitor is declared, a scenario is chosen based on some in-game conditions. I don't recall any scenarios in which the traitor role can change between players.

BESW

8:38 AM

@kviiri The first act of each game is exploring the house (setting up a tile-based board and collecting items and bonuses/penalties). Each time anyone draws from a certain deck, that person rolls dice; if the roll is under the number of cards from that deck in play, the second act starts and a scenario is chosen from a book of 50, depending on the triggering item and the room you were in when you got it.

Many scenarios have traitors, but not all of them do; sometimes you play against a more nebulous threat or it's a free-for-all to see who wins an objective. The traitor is not always the person who triggered the second act. I think there are a few scenarios where the person with the antagonist power can change, but those might only be in the fan-made scenarios, I can't remember.

BESW

9:09 AM

Freeplay 2019 - Jamming Without Cramming

►

V2Blast

@kviiri there are 3 books in the game: there's the main rulebook, then there's the Survival Guide for the heroes and the Traitor's Tome for the traitors. The first 2 pages of the traitor's tome tell you which haunt begins (the base game comes with 50 haunts) when you fail the haunt roll; based on the omen that triggers that roll and the room that the person who triggered the haunt was in, it tells you which haunt begins.

Someone_Evil

My biggest problem with Betrayal (only played the orginal) was that the rules were not very clear/rigorous which becomes a problem once you introduce PvP. Also because the two sides get different rules added it becomes impossible to run a check on others and the 'rules weaker' players in my group quickly started to struggle.

V2Blast

sometimes the traitor is the one that triggered the haunt, sometimes it's a different character, sometimes there's no traitor to begin with and the traitor is determined by later events

yeah, I've seen a lot of reviews mentioning that there are often unclear parts of the rules, even in expansions and in the Legacy version of the game

I was worried about the traitor not understanding the rules in our group's first game, so we kind of lucked out in there being no traitor to begin with... but still

Someone_Evil

We had one game just pan out dead because the traitor need to kill the others and didn't understand how the combat mechanics worked. (also didn't find a way to ask without revealing what they need to win, but that's a different problem)

Hot RPG Questions

9:27 AM

3

Q: May a character shove an enemy who is already prone?

Imagine a 5th level fighter, Battle Master archetype. He uses the Trip Attack maneuver with the first attack of his Attack action and knocks the enemy prone. With his second attack, he hits the enemy with advantage, then as a bonus action (thanks to the Shield Master feat) he shoves the prone e...

dnd-5e fighter combat-maneuver prone

kviiri

9:41 AM

@Someone_Evil I was called "boring" when I invited friends to play a wargame and insisted they read the rules in advance, as opposed to "just bring the rules up as you go along, it's easier"

It makes me feel really bad being the only person in the game who knows the rules, I feel every move I make is an insidious trick except with none of the genius

doppelgreener

10:10 AM

@kviiri on the other hand they literally asked for it. muahaha

kviiri

10:25 AM

yeah, it just kills the enjoyment for me

kviiri

10:40 AM

My biannual via dolorosa is approaching fast

The loathsome ritual where I climb the hill to the campus and meekly request extra time to complete my research project :(

doppelgreener

prostrate thyself and begg that thy lordes haeve mercy upon thee for thou art but a werm byfore them

kviiri

At least the walk of shame towards the campus won't be slippery this time of the year

The shortest path popular up the hill the science campus is on is notoriously not tended during the Winter (for reasons unknown) and as a result it's fast to go down and dangerous to go either way.

doppelgreener

Oh good

Best of luck!

kviiri

10:56 AM

Thanks

FWIW I don't really believe they'd decline my request

I'm just... super stressed out by this stuff.

It's embarrassing and shameful

CollinB

11:23 AM

fast to go down one way or another

Derpy

@kviiri ... time to change your username to Sisyphus?

Sisyphus

In Greek mythology Sisyphus or Sisyphos (; Ancient Greek: Σίσυφος Sísuphos) was the king of Ephyra (now known as Corinth). He was punished for his self-aggrandizing craftiness and deceitfulness by being forced to roll an immense boulder up a hill only for it to roll down when it nears the top, repeating this action for eternity. Through the classical influence on modern culture, tasks that are both laborious and futile are therefore described as Sisyphean (). == Etymology == Linguistics Professor R. S. P. Beekes has suggested a pre-Greek origin and a connection with the root of the word sophos...

See the bright side: at least you don't have a rock to push.

... and that also reminds me I probably shouldn't be the one joking here since the "Icy Slippery Stair of Doom" was a thing at my campus too.

kviiri

There's a word in my language that resembles "Sisyphus" and would be an appropriate term to describe someone who'd bear pushing boulders uphill all day, but I think it's a false cognate

CollinB

11:49 AM

oh well

Someone_Evil

12:51 PM

I don't like touting my own horn, but I struggle to understand how our whale barding question haven't qualified for HNQ

Carcer

@Someone_Evil the hotness algorithm works in mysterious ways

and/or is a fickle mistress

and other idiomatic expressions of indecipherable behaviour

goodguy5

is "fickle mistress" really an idiom? It seems simply a metaphor?

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