TRPG General Chat

12:01 AM

@linksassin yeah, that was what spurred me to ask here - because they didn't at all mention that the other tag existed, or how they were different other than that D&D called them ability scores

linksassin

Both tags should exist but they should point people to use the correct term for their system

trogdor

12:17 AM

@linksassin cool

V2Blast

1:36 AM

Author: “I have created a world where literally magic is possible and there are dragons, f**king dragons” The Same Author: “well it just wouldn’t make sense for people of colour to exist in my universe”

Tweeted by SimuLiu on April 8, 2019 at 10:18 AM

trogdor

Oh ouch

V2Blast

also, in response to "You should actually read the books, there are lots of PoC. They aren't part of the main story very much because they mostly live on different continents. It's set in a pseudo middle ages."

@PeterThemeh1 @HooverIris LOL best defence ever “If you actually read the books you should know that people of colour were very briefly referred to! Remember we have to keep it accurate this is set during the Middle Ages” Meanwhile winter is 10 years long 😂😂😂😂

Tweeted by SimuLiu on April 9, 2019 at 12:07 AM in reply to PeterThemeh1

Shalvenay

:P

BESW

It's amusing that people think they're calling out any particular author.

trogdor

@V2Blast well also he says right under there he isn't talking about a specific show

He's talking about a trend

V2Blast

1:40 AM

haha, yeah

BESW

trogdor

And people Still crawl right of the woodwork to defend X specific show that does it with Thermian arguments

:/

That's why I love you Twitter, oh wait yeah it's the opposite

(just to be fair it really isn't a Twitter only thing)

BESW

This is something I enjoyed watching The Dragon Prince, and reading books like A Memory Called Empire.

They're just like oh yeah, lots of kinds of people. That's a thing. Obviously.

trogdor

One of many nice things about it yeah

The king and his son just happen to be POC and no one thinks it's weird

The general of the army speaks in only sign language and no one bats an eye

Of course it would be nice if they did a little more than that, and refrained from a stereotype joke or two, but they do actually do a better job than many and more of that is what we need right now

I certainly won't say they mistakes they have made outweigh the rest of what I have seen, though I will say that the narcolepsy joke was low hanging fruit they could have easily avoided

V2Blast

1:59 AM

Is there a general "Can touch-range spells target yourself" question?

also one for "creatures you can see"

for D&D 5e, of course

trogdor

Not sure

I don't usually look up D&D questions, even on the rare day I am looking up any at all

But I would assume all spells that are meant to be able to target yourself with they would label as such

?

BESW

2:14 AM

@V2Blast I can't find one.

V2Blast

yeah, neither could I

but in fact all touch spells/effects and all "a creature within X feet of you" effects can target yourself unless stated otherwise, and all spells/effects that target "a creature you can see" can target you as long as you can see yourself (i.e. you're not blinded or invisible)

BESW

> Some spells can target only a creature (including you) that you touch. (source)

> To target something, you must have a clear path to it, so it can't be behind total cover. If you place an area of effect at a point that you can't see and an obstruction, such as a wall, is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of that obstruction. (source)

No need for line of sight, only clear air.

Apparently a window stops a spell?

V2Blast

indeed. unless it's Sacred Flame

nitsua60

@KorvinStarmast you around?

Shalvenay

2:40 AM

hey there @Kadin, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)

BESW

Hi!

user15026

3:06 AM

@trogdor This reminds me I need to watch more oof it.

Rubiksmoose

@BESW according to JC anyways

BESW

@Rubiksmoose I mean, I don't have a problem with it in principle! There's some interesting worldbuilding implications to explore in the idea of magic which travels physically, which D&D will never dig into.

Rubiksmoose

@BESW oh for sure I like it too. It's just JC's argument on why SF works like that rests on some...questionable reading of RAW (IMO)

I used to be all for it but I was actually convinced otherwise

I still play that it works as JC says fwiw, but I don't believe the RAW says what he intended or interprets it to say

V2Blast

yeah, I think Sacred Flame being an exception to the line-of-effect rules isn't justified by the spell wording

Rubiksmoose

unfortunately not :-/

Miniman

3:13 AM

It's just one more ridiculous issue stemming from the absurd stance that there's no fluff text in 5e.

Rubiksmoose

It's one of the most obvious cases of the designer reading what they intended into the spell wording when the text doesn't actually support it.

@Miniman I don't consider that stance too absurd tbqh, but I do think it gets a bit silly sometimes.

It certainly plays a bit into this issue though

trogdor

@Ash I definitely think it's worth it

Miniman

@Rubiksmoose The only way I can accept it, personally, is to take the stance that all 5e text is of equal value - there's no fluff text because it's all semi-fluff.

BESW

@Miniman That's the impression I get, yeah.

Miniman

@BESW I can't really go any further with this line of discussion without violating Be Nice, I think.

Rubiksmoose

3:20 AM

@Miniman yeah that seems to be a reasonable position. I can see why you would take issue with the no-fluff declaration though. Really the hard part is separating what is descriptive about things descibed later in the effect mechanically or the statement deserves a mechanical attribution on its own.

trogdor

@Miniman I just have to point out that I feel very similarly, I've only played this one campaign but I have needed help understanding how certain Mechanics work because they will be damned if they write it in an entirely coherent way

It's a bit frustrating and disappointing how much 5e reminds me of 3.5

In that regard

Or really in any regard even

linksassin

@trogdor Indeed, 5e in it's quest to recapture "the essence of d&d" lost some of the improvements it made in 4e. Sometimes on purpose.

trogdor

@linksassin I would argue exactly on purpose

Also it might sound silly but I am serious when I say, the things they kept from 4e were the things that work the least with everything else about the system

Or at the very least feel tacked on in some weird attempt to appease people who did like 4e

linksassin

@trogdor No need to argue. I'm with you. I haven't played enough 4e to know exactly what they did keep and didn't but there are certainly things that it did better than 5e.

trogdor

Like hit dice as healing

I think it might be my best example

In 4e it was a mechanic that tied into other mechanics

In multiple ways

user15026

3:27 AM

@trogdor I've enjoyed what I have seen I just am bad for forgetting shows exist

trogdor

You take a short rest, you use some of it to heal,your healing classes also use them to heal you, you use long rests to get them and all your powers back

In this way those Mechanics all touched each other

In 5e it feels entirely tacked on

linksassin

To be fair. Hit Dice feel tacked on in 3.5/PF as well. I GM a PF game and my players constantly ask: "What are hit dice for?"

trogdor

@Ash that's fair, I do that too, I still have 3 different anime shows I started and never finished

linksassin

5e was still a slight improvement in at least giving them a use.

trogdor

@linksassin yeah, I mean this is kinda why I compare 5e to 3.5

@linksassin thus is true, but you can see how I feel like it's a step backwards

user15026

3:31 AM

@trogdor I'm like I DO LIKE YOU I PROMISE

trogdor

They made the big leap in 4e and then took it back and kept so little of what made the idea great

linksassin

@trogdor comparing is to 4e is very difficult since it's so different. I feel like 4e would have done better if they had called it something else. Offending you fan base by making too drastic a change is a bad idea

trogdor

@Ash so much this

linksassin

Or if 5e had come before 4e. That might have worked too. I still think 5e is the best version overall though. But it does have some drawbacks.

trogdor

@linksassin well I disagree there, but I can only blame Wizards of the Coast for very much cultivating this kind of feeling in thier consumer base

linksassin

3:33 AM

I mean I run PF for a reason.

trogdor

I don't blame the people who were more or less trained to expect specific things

Or I try not to anyway

I think I fail sometimes

linksassin

@trogdor I don't know. If the next Assasin's Creed game turned out to be a FPS the fan based would be upset. It's fundamentally different to what the fans of the series had expected. To me 4e was a similar thing.

trogdor

4e, in my personal oppinion, was the best edition of D&D specifically because they were actually doing something radically different

@linksassin quite the comparison there, I don't like Assassin's Creed specifically because every game if it looks exactly the same

I will concede though

That, you know, if people like that they shouldn't be blamed for it

They like it and if they want more, great

Buuuuut

If they make that shooter and I actually like it a ton , I should also be allowed that right?

linksassin

That's why I think they should have called it something else. D&D evolved/alternate or something. Other than 4e which implied a replacement for something they loved.

BESW

4e was not fundamentally different from 3.x, really. It simply chose to focus on polishing one specific part of 3.x at the expense of the others. 5e chose to diversify again, at the expense of each part being less polished.

trogdor

3:39 AM

Also, wouldn't it be weird, if later they said " we are sorry for making a shooter set in the Assassin's Creed universe, we won't do it again, but here have shooter elements that don't tie into the next game very well for people who liked it"

Because that's what I'm talking about here

linksassin

@trogdor I don't think anyone that loves 4e is wrong. It isn't a bad game. Neither do I think anyone that prefers 5e is wrong. The reason multiple games exist is so that people can play the game that suits them

trogdor

@linksassin yes, I agree with you

BESW

Mm. And a significant difficulty with most D&D editions is that they try to be all games for all people.

That's where 4e changed; by picking one kind of game to be.

trogdor

@BESW ok maybe I said that wrong, but you understand that what I mean is that 4e is certainly a different beast, they both have similarities for sure, but the fact is that they have a lot of different things going on

BESW

@trogdor Yeah, the philosophy behind the gameplay design goals is radically different but the game itself is still VERY recognizable as a distillation of the D&D d20 System.

trogdor

3:42 AM

What I dislike about 5e is how much it is so dang similar to 3.5, which would bother me even if I liked 3.5 more

linksassin

@trogdor That's a pretty good argument actually. The counter argument is that the part they kept were distinct improvements from the older games.

trogdor

It also doesn't help that, as I said, at least coming from 4e the hit dice mechanic in 5e feels tacked on

@linksassin that's fair

linksassin

@trogdor Can you really fault a game for being similar to the most popular RPG of all time when they made it?

trogdor

But I still can't help but look at it as a step back

@linksassin a little yeah?

I don't want to say that no one is allowed to enjoy it for sure

Go crazy in fact

But I'm pointing out, basically, why I do not

Or at least not as much as I could

BESW

@linksassin I've played Stargate SG-1 the RPG. Yes, I can fault a game for mimicking the gimmicks of that success without understanding what created that success.

trogdor

3:45 AM

I still want to finish the campaign I'm in

But that's honestly more to do with who I'm playing with than the system itself

linksassin

It is similar for sure. But there are also a lot of changes. Just most of the changes didn't change the feel but the complexity. So it feels the same but is much simpler.

trogdor

And I don't want to start another 5e game when this one is wrapped up

@linksassin I will give credit to 5e, it's doing a better job right now than 3.5 did

linksassin

@trogdor That's always the case though yeah? I had friends who wanted to play anything but 5e because they didn't love it. We tried a few things but ended up coming back because the system wasn't really the fun bit. It was the game we played together.

trogdor

I do worry that as it gets more added to it it might look more and more like 3.5 though

BESW

@trogdor I keep remembering how @doppelgreener jumped from 4e to Fate without a hitch mid-campaign.

linksassin

3:48 AM

I'm actually waiting for the release of PF2 to decide what to do with my next campaign. It looks like a decent shift from both PF and 5e while still supporting the same playstyle

trogdor

@linksassin yes but with a system I enjoy more it would also be better?

linksassin

@trogdor I have that same worry. The Ravinca expansion and a few others recently have added a lot of content that seems less balanced then the core materials. I'm worried it will get out of hand with the available content.

trogdor

@BESW when was this?

linksassin

@trogdor The point was that we found issues with every system. Nothing is perfect. But if it is a sticking point for you you should use a different one

BESW

@linksassin For a d20-ish D&D-ish feel, the best system I've seen is still 13th Age. Which is basically what you'd get if 5e had been able to keep more of the learning from 3.x and 4e and not been tethered to the requirements of a sprawling franchise.

@trogdor back in the day with his Australia group.

trogdor

3:51 AM

Oh yeah 13th Age

Definitely, if you like D&D you should give it a look

BESW

(It's an indie d20 System game made by the lead devs from 3.5 and 4e.)

Miniman

@trogdor Not to worry. 3.5e tried to make the rules more coherent and less ambiguous as it went on. Not to mention producing better balanced content towards the end of its run.

trogdor

You might like it, if not it was worth the new experience at Least, hopefully XD

BESW

@Miniman zing!

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trogdor

3:52 AM

@Miniman :/ :/ :/

Miniman

@BESW I'm not saying they succeeded, of course, but at least the intent was there.

linksassin

@Miniman PF was the same. Later releases trying to patch holes in the original but making it more and more complex in the process with overlapping rules from different sources.

trogdor

@BESW ah no wonder I don't remember it very well

@Miniman I will say, to be fair, the tome of battle stuff is probably something we should credit for how 4e turned out

Having a space to test some of the ideas like that probably helped significantly

V2Blast

@linksassin what GGTR content do you think is less balanced? just curious

linksassin

4:08 AM

@V2Blast I don't have the book actually so I can't give exact examples. But it introduced a lot of new content and the more content there is the more chance for broken multiclassing. I used that as an example because it was the most different from the other source books that exist

V2Blast

I mean... it added a few races and 2 subclasses, all of which went through UA. I haven't looked at most of them in too much detail, but I haven't heard of any being broken or anything

(the backgrounds, maybe, as they do add spells to the spell lists of any casters that take them)

it doesn't really seem that different from other sourcebooks, other than being better organized

BESW

Good Game, Tiny Racoon.

linksassin

Maybe it wasn't a great example. My point was more that as they continue to add more and more varied content they possibilities for exploits will grow.

V2Blast

I mean you specifically said "The Ravinca expansion and a few others recently have added a lot of content that seems less balanced then the core materials.", which is why I was curious/confused what you meant. I agree that the more content there is in general, the greater the possibility for shenanigans

Miniman

@V2Blast cough Hexblade cough

Also, they published the Zealot and the Storm Herald barbarians on the same page.

V2Blast

4:23 AM

@Miniman true true. Not in Ravnica though ;)

linksassin

@V2Blast That I did. Loose wording on my part, I think I choose ravinca because it introduces a whole new mechanic in the guild stuff. And because it isn't AL legal I assumed it was less balanced.

V2Blast

Nah, the AL-legal part likely has more to do with them not having an AL campaign set in Ravnica at the moment

Miniman

@V2Blast Well, yeah.

linksassin

What @Miniman says would probably have been better examples.

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BESW

6:31 AM

Campaign idea modified from a LARP idea I just ran across (will share link when my devices sync up): 15-year reunion for a wizarding school class.

linksassin

@BESW I could get behind that. All wizard party would be interesting to balance though.

BESW

Not a D&D campaign.

The focus would be on the drama of relationships and identity at a school reunion, but exaggerated and enhanced through the lens of it having been a preternaturally dangerous school and the adult wizards being able to express their feelings through supernatural powers.

Trying to run that in D&D would make it effectively free-form except for artificial limitations in terms of magical narrative options.

linksassin

What system would you use then?

BESW

Probably a Faith Corps drift.

Straight-up Fate or Cortex Plus would be easy enough. A Golden Sky Stories drift would be hilarious. Monsterhearts is an obvious choice, if that's the group's style (it's not mine).

V2Blast

@BESW Faith Corps?

BESW

6:41 AM

Anything that pushes characters to act on internal and relationship-driven conflicts.

@V2Blast A mashup of Fate Core and a "good vs evil temptation" Cortex Plus drift.

V2Blast

...what's a drift

BESW

Like a hack, or a variant: take an existing system and modify the mechanics so it drifts in a new direction of play.

V2Blast

ah

BESW

But a drift tends to be more formal than a hack, and change the overall experience more than a variant.

I think I picked it up from Bubblegumshoe, which has drifts for Scooby-Doo style play, Veronica Mars style play, etc. Still recognizably the same system, but modified so the game feels dramatically different in play.

Faith Corpse combines Fate Accelerated approaches with Cortex Plus general but character-specific descriptive skills, and replaces fate points with a temptation system which reflects a kind of "light side/dark side" conflict within the character while serving a similar pacing role as the fate point economy.

I think it'd be well suited for a story about dramatic and conflicted magic-users struggling with self-confidence and peer pressure.

...Faith Corps. Not Faith Corpse.

trogdor

8:30 AM

@BESW ha! a GSS version of that would be fantastic XD

BESW

8:41 AM

@trogdor There is a witch character option....

trogdor

yeah there is

though to be fair,... it would sort of limit what everyone could do and make them all do the same kinds of thing

I mean if you want that it works

if you don't specifically,.....

but the Witch is kind of made expecting everyone else needs the kinds of things they can do

like reducing transformation costs and disguises and stuff

so yeah a cursory look at it, unless this is also a game about hiding that you are a wizard/witch a lot of the magic stuff you can do by default isn't,.. incredibly flashy

at least if everyone is gonna be a witch for it

I wouldn't call it bad but I would say it might be a little limiting for using magic to express emotion

especially if you want to allow diverse types of magic and a lot of creativity

maaaybe the system overall would even need a little tweaking if we were going to use it for something like this?

BESW

8:57 AM

Definitely. It was an off the cuff idea that I kinda like but it'd need a lot more thought to make work.

trogdor

yeah

I mean, I love the GSS system, and I would love to play more of it

but using it for something it wasn't specifically designed for might be a bad idea or at least some work put into it

BESW

9:15 AM

But thinking about applying different systems to a concept helps define the concept, because realizing why a system is wrong is important too.

trogdor

true

and I didn't realize why I thought that wouldn't work till I thought about it fully in the context

BESW

D&D? Now I know that physical combat isn't the kind of drama the story is about; it's about relationships and identity. GSS? Well, that's too positive too quickly, I'd want to hack it so it's harder to make friendships which maybe means it's not the right system but now I know something more about the relationships I want to center the story around.

And as you pointed out, is the magic aesthetic subtle and secret or big and flashy? I think big and flashy, because I want the magic to be how the characters externalize their the internal conflicts because they can't just talk it out like emotionally healthy people.

(Like how every fight scene in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon could have been a musical number instead.)

trogdor

XD

@BESW yes that's what I figured you wanted

that's why I looked at it and was like "hmm most of these won't work"

BESW

But as I think about that, I realize that this is... a game I really want to exist but not one I'm qualified to make.

Because no matter how it gets dressed up, it's always going to be a game about how adults are still affected, years later, by violent trauma they experienced while teenagers, at their schools.

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BESW

9:22 AM

And that's not a story I can structure responsibly.

Momonga-sama

Is there any reason this question is specifically about Eidolons, at all? Could we make this question more generic and usable if we removed that restriction? — Erin B 13 hours ago

That one guy, who didn't answer the question and tries to sabotage the question itself and other answer. XD

trogdor

@BESW that's fair

BESW

@ErinB If there's a generic solution, then it's workable for Eidolons and will be a good answer AND usable by more people. If there are Eidolon-specific solution, then making it generic will reduce the usefulness to the asker. The Stack works best when providing actionable solutions to the specific problems people are really facing. Good answers show their work enough to be generalizable whenever possible, but forcing a question to generalize often leaves us with watered-down generic answers that aren't as useful to anyone. — BESW 47 secs ago

Momonga-sama

9:43 AM

Amen @BESW

BESW

Not my best phrasing, I'm in a bit of a hurry.

V2Blast

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Momonga-sama

@V2Blast I think it's basically "Is the Spinning Blades worth it, since I can't use it along with my school technique (except at round 1 if I have initiative)?"

doppelgreener

@BESW Thank you for that thoughtful reply.

BESW

Momonga-sama

9:59 AM

@BESW This plus the fact somebody answered to actually use a hook.

BESW

Momonga-sama

TFW when every fight is basically fishing

trogdor

Lol

A lot of your welcome around here

BESW

10:25 AM

"This sword sucks. You said it glows when danger is near," he said. "And?" the wizard said. "It ALWAYS glows." "Yes. It has sharp edges."

Tweeted by ASmallFiction on April 10, 2019 at 6:11 AM

Daniel F. Walthall's "Axebane's Maps!" free hand-drawn maps for personal use.

MikeQ

10:47 AM

@BESW Possible idea: Some interaction mechanic about reminiscing, either how things were better or tougher when they were students, as opposed to the newer, softer generation. Maybe it's a stunt, call it "Back in my day"

BESW

@MikeQ I like that idea. If I felt comfortable going forward with the concept I'd probably use a confessional aside.

MikeQ

"Kid wizards these days have it so easy. Back in my day, we had to prepare spells using Vancian magic."

BESW

@MikeQ See here.

MikeQ

Because you weren't a high school wizard?

BESW

Because I'm only just barely the Columbine generation; the emotional impact of normalized high school violence isn't something I can speak about knowledgeably or responsibly.

MikeQ

10:56 AM

Maybe change the premise, so it's some other type of reunion?

BESW

Such as?

MikeQ

Retired adventurers, 15 years after they saved the <place> from <threat>, and the very mundane things they've been up to ever since, and how they react to the world's inevitable changing

BESW

Hmm.

MikeQ

It may be better suited for one of those super-lightweight 1-page RPGs, rather than Fate, since it's not about proactive characters overcoming actiony challenges

BESW

Sounds like it.

Sort of a "sit around the table sharing baby pictures and sighing" kind of thing.

Maybe a lightweight thing inspired by APFMT.

KorvinStarmast

11:45 AM

@nitsua60 Sorry I mssed that prompt, was afk

doppelgreener

@Ash please do, it's great

It's not the best fantasy storytelling ever but it's fantastic

And whenever you reach season 2 episode 4 I'll have a meme for you

(reach here meaning finish)

trogdor

lol

also it does get better in season 2

just overall

but especially the animation

doppelgreener

Oh yes

trogdor

it's got a little bit of a pacing problem in my opinion but it's ignorable

doppelgreener

The animation issues are resolved in season 2

@trogdor I agree

The representation the show has gives me life

BESW

11:54 AM

@doppelgreener I have encountered some criticism of the depiction of the people around General Amaya, because she does all the work meeting them: brings her own translator, is shockingly proficient at lip-reading, etc.

The society does not accommodate her, she must accommodate the society.

trogdor

@doppelgreener Claudia is a little borderline non-diagnosed Autistic with some sort of possible stereotyped traits, but even if that is the case it seems extremely accidental, and the Narcolepsy joke, again, could have easily been avoided, but otherwise extremely yes to this

BESW

Which is... accurate, sadly, but falls short of the mark for a show that generally seems to be trying to show a more-enlightened-than-modern approach to diversity.

trogdor

@BESW it's certainly not perfect, but they are trying harder than anyone else I have seen in the same arena recently

BESW

Very true.

I do appreciate that all the signing is recognizable and accurate ASL, because that's hard to do on their budget.

trogdor

right at this time, trying harder than anyone else is a pretty good thing

and yeah I hope eventually that trying harder than anyone else will bear even better fruit but I think we have to make some small allowances

we don't have to ignore the mistakes for sure

but ignoring the effort is also bad

BESW

12:00 PM

There's also the bit where the spoiler with the most screen time and empathetic depiction spoilers an episode later.

trogdor

yeah,.....

that's not entirely cool

they didn't really need to do that

I can see some reasons but also I can see that they could have done the things they wanted to do and just not do,.... that particular thing

doppelgreener

There was something I read from the creators around why they chose to do that, which was comforting for myself and others who were kinda disappointed by it

BESW

Or they could've done it, but included more spoilers, because the problem with the trope isn't that it happens, but that it happens so often compared to the total amount of representation in media.

trogdor

@BESW yeah that's definitely something they could have done to mitigate it

doppelgreener

Why are we doing this thing where we're picking apart the show for all the ways it didn't quite do enough

trogdor

12:04 PM

I was actually just thinking they could have included more of that and that that would have made it less really bad

@doppelgreener I mean,... I really like it, I actually do

but some of this stuff does bother me

and it's not like I am going up to the show creators and saying "you is bad"

but I do think talking about the things they could do much better is valid

I could also say, I really love the way magic works in the setting

they have done some interesting stuff with that

BESW

@doppelgreener ...because in this chat I've already gushed about the magic system, the representation, the way they give totally unnecessary time and thought to making minor one-scene characters seem real, the nuance of the villains, and toyed with Fate mechanics for modelling a lot of those elements?

trogdor

it's extremely good

all those things

also the main characters interactions get better and better over time

BESW

Apr 4 at 7:50, by BESW

> Primal Magic. You are a magical creature born with the secret of a primal. Choose one of the primals, one skill, and one action type. When an aspect related to your primal is present in a scene, you can use your chosen skill and action to create magical effects. If you spend a fate point on the action by invoking a primal aspect for +2, you can also use a different skill or different action type instead (you may spend two fate points to do both).

trogdor

they seem to be steadily improving at that

doppelgreener

@BESW To me I just mentioned I like the representation (which is far above and beyond most other media) and had listed back to me all the ways in which it's inadequate, which is ... not great??

BESW

12:10 PM

But I'm also interested in how things I like can improve, and learning from them how I can improve.

trogdor

@doppelgreener put that way yeah,.... sorry about that

BESW

@doppelgreener Fair enough, sorry about that. I was coming at it from the perspective of continuing existing conversations we've had about how good it is, not thinking of it as a new one.

trogdor

I won't speak for BESW but it's kinda hard for me to take that hat off

@BESW same

doppelgreener

Right, yeah, this is a new conversation for me. I don't remember if I've even brought up this topic here, or to Ash.

BESW

Like, you were specifically responding to Ash in a conversation where Troggy and I were both mentioning the awesome representation.

doppelgreener

12:14 PM

I can't see that context

trogdor

also,.. for the Claudia thing, that's just something I can't refrain from premising, even if it's a mistake, most of the time I see it it's either a mistake or false information no one bothered to research

doppelgreener

Oh, now I see it

I just saw a couple of messages about its representation

trogdor

but for the rest of it I wholeheartedly apologize

doppelgreener

No, that's alright

I understand

trogdor

@doppelgreener I mean I do to, we jumped right into that stuff

:)

doppelgreener

12:23 PM

@BESW FWIW though I haven't seen those (and didn't notice the fuller conversation with Ash) and now I'd like to read some of those.

I think I saw that primal stunt one, and looks like I did at least briefly mention TDP here

BESW

@doppelgreener Long rambling discussion starts roughly hereish

trogdor

was there earlier stuff too?

I think actually that was what Ash was referencing

oh wait yeah ok Ash was replying to that praise up there

doppelgreener

Thanks!

trogdor

it was not connected to earlier conversations

doppelgreener

I agree with a lot of the stuff in that conversation, and I love the part where they don't subtitle or repeat Amaya's speech

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