TRPG General Chat

David Coffron

8:00 PM

They must have loved the new movies

SPavel

@DavidCoffron That article is not very good

The "stakes" in Civil War were the Avengers

David Coffron

@SPavel You aren't wrong. I was lol'ing at it

"In this age of multi-franchise Marvel movies, it’s a pretty safe bet no one important is going to die which bleeds the films dry of any real tension."

This line in particular

Delioth

@DavidCoffron Oh thank god. I thought you were serious for a bit and was worried

Mike Q

@Rubiksmoose I generally dislike it because you can't ground universal stakes in the plot. You could just replace every mention of universal stakes with a cut to someone saying "INSERT BAD THING HERE!" and it would have the same impact.

David Coffron

Here is a good commentary

"That's the issue, I think. A good filmmaker can make two people's problems seem as important as the whole world, but others take the shortcut and just say, the whole world's at stake!! as a shortcut to making us actually care about their world."

SPavel

8:03 PM

@DavidCoffron I didn't like Ragnarok partly because of this

I don't care about Asgard, it sucks and everyone there is a jerk

NautArch

@SPavel I didn't care about the loss of Asgard, but Ragnarok is one of my favorite MCU films

Mike Q

@SPavel Thor: Ragnarok was a joke movie and was barely about Ragnarok at all. Very entertaining, but terrible in terms of drama.

David Coffron

@SPavel But The Grandmaster was hilarious (I didn't like Act 3 though for the reason you state)

SPavel

The only good character in that movie was Loki and Loki always gets away anyway

@DavidCoffron Yeah that bit was good, the electric thingy notwithstanding

Also the guy with the accent is really annoying

Delioth

@SPavel It's not the story of Asgard. It's the story of Thor's world being broken down before he salvages what he can

David Coffron

8:05 PM

@SPavel Melty Stick* I'm offended :P

Mike Q

@SPavel Korg, the director's self-insert humor?

SPavel

I mean, at this point the MCU is basically an action sitcom

NautArch

good article on star wars emptiness - contains Solo spoilers

but yet, i'm okay with emptiness. It's like my ~~brain~~ ~~heart~~ ~~soul~~. whatever.

SPavel

@Delioth That would have more impact if Thor had a world, or a personality

He flies around space doing Avengers stuff and is home like once a year for Christmas with the folks

(Odinsmas?)

Mike Q

@SPavel Wednesday, technically

SPavel

8:06 PM

Thor: Ragnarok would be way better if you swapped all the characters for their Stargate counterparts

David Coffron

@SPavel Probably Yuletide

Delioth

@SPavel He has both... If you're missing that you've just not been paying attention. Note that by "world" I really mean "worldview".

(Are we safe for big Ragnarok spoilers, before I do that?)

Mike Q

@Delioth Eh, Asgard is more of a reference than an actual place, from the perspective of MCU audience. It's where Asgardians live, and it gets attacked sometimes. That's... pretty much it. Nothing happens there and nobody we care about lives there.

David Coffron

@Delioth His world is more Earth than Asgard: "I am a king" "Not here!"

Delioth

The actual planet Asgard is irrelevant. That's not what the story is about. The story is about Thor's worldview

David Coffron

8:08 PM

@Delioth 6 months should be fine

Delioth

@DavidCoffron I figured, but also figured I should give people a chance to either look away or speak up

SPavel

To be fair, Thor is not alone in being a boring action protagonist, there are maybe 3 interesting leads in the MCU

Delioth

So an extra note: Ragnarok Spoilers

Mike Q

@SPavel Thanos, who are the other two

SPavel

@MikeQ I didn't find Thanos interesting

David Coffron

8:09 PM

@SPavel Banner, Stark, Rogers?

Mike Q

@SPavel He's got more depth than most of the previous protagonists

SPavel

@DavidCoffron Stark yes, Banner could be interesting but they don't do enough with him beyond "oh no the Hulk"

Steve Rogers is boring by design

David Coffron

@SPavel Then who? Natasha? I guess Loki qualifies

Delioth

@SPavel Hold up... did you even watch Ragnarok?

SPavel

Don't get me started on Black Widow

She is probably the worst character

Yuuki

8:11 PM

This is why I love the DC Cinematic Universe. All of their heroes are so complex and dark.

retches

David Coffron

@SPavel Hawkeye?

SPavel

@DavidCoffron T'Challa

Mike Q

@Yuuki I cast Detect Lies on that one

Rubiksmoose

Deadpool is the answer to all the questions

Mike Q

^^^

SPavel

8:11 PM

Hawkeye is ok, he's like, King of the Hill but with a bow

Mike Q

The most interesting protagonists are Stark, Thanos, Deadpool

David Coffron

@SPavel 100% agreed

Delioth

Like a third of Ragnarok is learning that the Hulk is his own personality (and what that is), and most of Banner/Hulk's screentime in Infinity War is exploring the relationship between the two

Mike Q

T'Challa is just Tony Stark 2.0 minus the quips

SPavel

@MikeQ Tony Stark is quips

David Coffron

8:12 PM

Worst villain? Malekith is my vote

SPavel

@DavidCoffron who

David Coffron

@SPavel Exactly (the Dark Elf leader)

Mike Q

@SPavel Exactly

Delioth

@SPavel Thor: Dark World

David Coffron

Although Ronan the Accuser is pretty meh as well

Yuuki

8:13 PM

@SPavel What is T'Challa's design?

SPavel

Dormammu is boring by virtue of not having done anything

Yuuki

Like, what are his personality traits?

David Coffron

@SPavel Nah he "bargained"

SPavel

@DavidCoffron He didn't actually bargain, Strange offered him a deal and he took it

V2Blast

I mean, Dormammu's kind of a villain in that movie but not really because he himself plays such a small part. Kaecilius is the main villain in that movie

Mike Q

8:14 PM

@V2Blast Yeah, Dormammu was more of a force or plot device. Kaecilius was the antagonist.

V2Blast

are we including the TV shows in this conversation?

David Coffron

@SPavel I feel like I dislike most of the villans actually (Abomination, whatever the guy from Iron Man 3's name was, Ego, Vulture)

At least we have Baron Zemo. He was GREAT

Yuuki

@DavidCoffron I think he's just Zemo.

SPavel

@Yuuki T'Challa is the only conservative MCU hero (aside from Rogers, but in a different way). That alone makes him fairly interesting.

Zemo was the Civil War guy right

Mike Q

@DavidCoffron Really? I thought Vulture was the among the most compelling villains so far.

SPavel

8:16 PM

Who was the guy inside a computer?

Delioth

@Yuuki Is rightful king and protector of his land. Prideful AF. Has family he cares about and some generic super-human ability augmented by technology/magic. Only takes up his mantles reluctantly. AKA: He's Thor but with less interesting relationships.

Yuuki

@SPavel I think shouting "you're all wrong" at his ancestors and former kings disqualifies him from being conservative.

SPavel

Agents of Shield has better villains

David Coffron

@SPavel This

Yuuki

@Delioth I'm not sure you can argue "takes up his mantle reluctantly".

Mike Q

8:17 PM

@SPavel that was Zola

David Coffron

@MikeQ Maybe I just don't like the "father protect daughter" thing. He should've killed Spiderman when he had the chance (he was clearly ruthless enough)

Yuuki

The only reluctance he has to being king is that his father had to die first.

Delioth

@Yuuki Yeah, but that's the same reluctance Thor has (later on) to taking up the mantle of Allfather

I'm not convinced T'Challa isn't just a human Thor with new paint and new toys

SPavel

Grant Ward was great, Jiaying was great, Johnson was great

David Coffron

@SPavel So was Hive imo

SPavel

8:19 PM

The girl with razor blades on her fingers was dumb though

David Coffron

(but that is a touchy topic, big debates)

SPavel

@DavidCoffron No, I agree

So much buildup and then it was actually worth it

V2Blast

Yeah, basically all the major TV villains are pretty good

except maybe Ghost Rider's uncle

Mike Q

@V2Blast For marvel, at least. That's a very important qualifier.

SPavel

I stopped watching around that time

David Coffron

8:20 PM

@SPavel Raina is also one of my favorite villains just because she was so dynamic (although her end was a little anti-climactic)

V2Blast

well, obviously for marvel. I'm talking about the MCU shows :P

SPavel

Raina was ok

David Coffron

@V2Blast Deadpool has some great villains too (just saying)

SPavel

Still need to see that

V2Blast

true

SPavel

8:21 PM

Isn't there a 2 now

Delioth

Yeah, like in the last couple weeks

V2Blast

Yes, I watched it earlier this week :)

Solid movie

Yuuki

@MikeQ To me, Reverse Flash has been a great villain for centuries.

SPavel

@Yuuki What a terrible name though

David Coffron

@Yuuki I didn't like the new Flash show that much. Felt like every season was the same. THis speedster is faster than you. How are you going to get as fast?

Yuuki

8:22 PM

@DavidCoffron RUN BARRY RUN

Mike Q

@Yuuki In comics, sure. In the tv shows... sigh I'd rather not discuss them too much because I don't feel like ranting right now

Yuuki

@SPavel To be fair, it makes sense given that Thawne is obsessed with Barry.

Or at least, it makes sense in the comics.

"Professor Zoom" is objectively the dumber name.

David Coffron

"Captain Cold", "Weather Wizard" there are some pretty stupid flash villain names

Yuuki

Although to be fair, it was like the 60s.

SPavel

@DavidCoffron Weather Wizard is a great name, you take that back

Yuuki

8:24 PM

The best superhero name is "Matter Eating Lad".

David Coffron

@SPavel I'm intrinsically oppposed to pointless alliteration

Yuuki

Sorry, Matter Eater Lad.

V2Blast

I assume the coming season of Agents of SHIELD is probably the last one... hopefully the writers will know whether that's the case going into it.

SPavel

@DavidCoffron Then you will have a bad time with Bruce Banner, Steven Strange, Peter Parker...

V2Blast

I'd love to see them bring back/wrap up some hanging threads from earlier seasons

David Coffron

8:25 PM

@SPavel Ew. I never noticed there were so many

@V2Blast They do. Almost all of them

SPavel

@DavidCoffron The writers used them because it made it easier to remember so many names

David Coffron

@Yuuki Dumber than Paste-Pot Pete?

SPavel

Also, Weather Wizard is a great 70s hair metal band name

Yuuki

@DavidCoffron I said best.

SPavel

The kind whose logo is painted on the side of a van

kviiri

8:26 PM

@SPavel this is the reason why every NPC has a punny name in my campaigns

V2Blast

@DavidCoffron I mean the ones that haven't been addressed yet... Like Donnie Gill and Vijay Nadeer (though that's a more recent one). They did do a major thing with gravitonium this season, though, so I'm confident

Yuuki

@SPavel Mister Doctor?

David Coffron

@Yuuki I loved that scene

SPavel

Mister Doctor?

V2Blast

It's Strange!

SPavel

8:27 PM

Oh yeah

David Coffron

@V2Blast "Maybe. Who am I to judge?"

V2Blast

:D

One of my favorite jokes in that movie

David Coffron

"Well, what's this? My mantra?"

SPavel

"It's just really good tea"

doppelgreener

the mister doctor exchange was an excellent scene

Yuuki

8:29 PM

If you liked it then you should've put a ring on it

doppelgreener

Mr. Doctor... It's Strange!

►

Mike Q

@Yuuki Or a gauntlet

Yuuki

wongyou'reinvitedtomywedding

David Coffron

@Yuuki "Wong. Just Wong? Like Adele? Or Aristotle. Drake. Bono... Eminem."

Mike Q

Let's see how much of the script we can recite before violating the DMCA

Yuuki

8:34 PM

@MikeQ Just yell "Martha" at the copyright lawyer.

David Coffron

MToF FINALLY came in my mail!!!

I'll be unavailable for the next... 3 hours? maybe more. Tudalu

Yuuki

8:56 PM

doppelgreener

he's gonna die

he can't eat his shield

SPavel

@doppelgreener What if he has vibranium dentures

doppelgreener

that's a very good question that should never get answered

by anybody

except maybe Wolverine one day

SPavel

@doppelgreener Is adamantium and vibranium the same thing?

BESW

No, and neither of them is gravitonium.

doppelgreener

9:01 PM

oh whoops right he's got adamantium going on, not vibranium

SPavel

@BESW Gravitonium? I 'ardly know 'em?

BESW

In the Marvel universe, adamantium is a nearly-indestructible steel alloy; vibranium is an extraterrestrial metal element with vibration properties unlike any earth material; gravitonium is a rare element with unique interactions with gravity and electricity.

SPavel

(also wouldn't gravitonium, logically, be a material made up of gravitons)

doppelgreener

vibranium is an extraterrestrial metal element with interactions with physics unlike any earth metal

BESW

(Gravitonium hasn't appeared in any of the films yet, but it's featured prominently in several seasons of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.)

Yuuki

9:04 PM

@SPavel Not if it was invented by a Dr. Jimmy Graviton.

doppelgreener

someone can punch it and it transfers no energy through to cap because of absorbing all the force, yet cap can hit people with it pretty hard and bounce it off things.

it's a very strange metal

and probably extraterrestrial in that it came from another universe entirely

Yuuki

I don't think einsteinium is made up of Jewish physicists.

BESW

Oh, and then there's zero matter, an element with negative energy.

SPavel

@doppelgreener You don't mean... a previous continuity?

doppelgreener

@SPavel i don't. :D

BESW

9:07 PM

@doppelgreener In most iterations, the explanation for the shield is that it's made of vibranium/adamantium striations, so it has different effects depending on which part of the shield is hit.

(And Cap, being at the peak of human physical performance because of the serum, can control the shield's positioning with great precision.)

SPavel

You know what was a good superhero show that made sense

Alphas

BESW

I'm sorry, did you imply that making sense is part of being a good superhero show?

SPavel

No it was separately a good superhero show and made sense

doppelgreener

@BESW ooooh. that makes a lot of sense, you know.

more adamantium at the edges to let it bounce & to hit people with, more vibranium in the middle to absorb force.

SPavel

In that bit in Civil War, Spiderman should have just stolen the shield and escaped

Could have sold it to Klaue for hella bucks

BESW

9:12 PM

Hela bucks lost a lot of their value after Ragnarok.

doppelgreener

they really did

BESW

Really, though, the material continuity of those stories doesn't matter; the best Marvel/DC style comic stories are emotionally centered and material logic emerges from the emotional continuity.

In the films, this manifests in each hero having their own emotional or moral beat they need to hit in order to succeed. And Infinity War is disturbing because they hit those beats but don't get the success we've been taught to expect as a result, while Thanos is going through the arc we usually associate with the heroes.

David Coffron

If ayone still cares about wierd material properties in the MCU, see the metal Stark makes (which shouldn't be possible), pym particles (which makes no sense), and everything about forging weapons in a neutron star.

(are thoseweapons still made of Uru in the mcu)

(I guess so: marvelcinematicuniverse.wikia.com/wiki/Uru)

Yuuki

@DavidCoffron They say Nidavellir is powered by the heart of a dying star but judging by the forging scene in Infinity War, it seems like Eitri's just never heard of propane.

Or acetylene.

David Coffron

@Yuuki But yeah: weird materials in the MCU are pym particles, Tony Stark's new element, Uru, and Vibranium. They just don't have the same phsyics as other materials

And vita rays. Whatever those are

BESW

9:24 PM

And gravitonium. And zero matter. And Hulk.

David Coffron

And the inifinity stones I guess. Whatever in the world those are

I think they are just programs that hack the code of the universe: "I think I'm deciphering code" -Jarvis

Yuuki

@DavidCoffron So... spells?

David Coffron

@Yuuki Yeah xD

BESW

In the film continuity the Stones were created at the beginning of the universe by the Cosmic Entities (Death, Entropy, Infinity and Eternity, according to background visuals in Guardians of the Galaxy), who used pre-Big-Bang "singularities" to craft them.

David Coffron

@BESW And how does that give them such specific properties that manipulate precise aspects of the world?

BESW

9:38 PM

Within the films? unclear.

Yuuki

How does a presumably vibranium-laced bead keep you from being paralyzed and/or dying simply by being stuck into your bullet wound?

BESW

Within the comics, the.... most common... origin is that they're six of the seven fragments of Nemesis, the first living being in any reality and possessed of limitless power over all existence.

David Coffron

@Yuuki It is powering an electromagnet I thought

(plus he's had heart surgery since then)

Yuuki

Huh? I'm talking about Black Panther.

David Coffron

@Yuuki Oh whoops

BESW

9:42 PM

@Yuuki That tech is powered by vibranium and uses vibrations in ways we don't understand, but that doesn't mean it's limited to the vibration-based effects of vibranium, any more than our tech is limited to the effects of burning fossil fuels.

David Coffron

Here's the wiki article: marvelcinematicuniverse.wikia.com/wiki/Kimoyo_Beads

They're a piece of tech, apparently Shuri (or someone else in the past that invented them)included a medical functionality

Yuuki

Honestly, none of the techy-magicky-whatnot in the MCU bothers me.

They exist to facilitate the story and I don't really bother with learning exactly how the Eye of Agamotto manages to warp the flow of time because all I need to know is that it does manipulate time.

David Coffron

@Yuuki True. Same could be said about many features of tabletop rpgs. I don't care how magic works as much as what I can do with it

Mike Q

@Yuuki As long as the pseudoscience/magic is internally consistent, yes

BESW

Eh, internal consistency is a snipe hunt in these things. So long as each movie works, I'm not gonna be bugged by interfilm continuity problems.

Yuuki

9:54 PM

As long as I don't think of problems with the MacGuffins before I get home, it doesn't bother me.

But if I have questions before I get in the car, then yeah maybe there's some issues.

Like I didn't think about why they didn't use the car disabling thingies when Klaue was getting away in Black Panther until I got home.

So it doesn't bother me.

BESW

I'm still waiting for the superhero story about the nonsensically powerful telepath who absolutely, steadfastly refuses to do anything with their powers without the explicit consent of all involved.

(Or I'll just make it my next character in a heroes RPG.)

Yuuki

I still want the mad scientist that tries to get superpowers by "activating" his brain to fire at 100%. And ends up having a seizure.

BESW

@Yuuki The Flash comes close to that with two different characters in the most recent season. Because it is The Flash, it is not handled well.

...also can we please have more films and shows that are based on non-Marvel/DC comics? They're just part of the crust on the superhero slice of the comic pie and I want to see Goldie Vance and Lumberjanes and The Pack and Yohance and Atomic Robo and...

Yuuki

I think there was an Amazon Prime show based on Powers.

BESW

iZombie is good but iZOMBIE was so much better and in comparison the show feels watered down and ashamed of its roots.

Yuuki

10:03 PM

Or Hulu?

BESW

(And even that's a Vertigo imprint, now that I think of it.)

Yuuki

I feel like Invincible would require too much CGI to be financially feasible right now.

Sir Cinnamon

@Yuuki Cant they just have the actor stand off screen so they wouldnt be able to see him?

crickets

BESW

10:25 PM

The Middleman was cancelled after one season, sadly. Hmm. What else has come to the screen from comics that isn't under the DC/Marvel banner?

(Powers wasn't adapted until after its acquisition by Marvel.)

Joel Harmon

@BESW Am I the only one who would love to see an XKCD movie?

BESW

(Once you go outside American publishing it's a lot easier: Persepolis, Tintin, Asterix...)

Somebody get HBO to make Digger into a miniseries, please.

Or if that's not gritty enough, Mouseguard.

(Though apparently Fox is talking about a Mouse Guard film...? I have my doubts.)

nitsua60

10:42 PM

@JoelHarmon are you familiar with xkcd #1190, "Time"? (If not, I strongly recommend that you don't look it up.)

Joel Harmon

@nitsua60 I am.

nitsua60

Well, then: there's your XKCD movie =)

(Frame-rate's a little low, for sure.)

Joel Harmon

I should have known, but it's been compiled into a movie.

Joel Harmon

11:04 PM

@nitsua60 I suppose the real question is who you would cast in it.

Transcript for