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2:00 PM
Rikssvenska (the Swedish spoken in Sweden) has a rather different accent than our Swedish though. They don't just speak Swedish, they sing it. Many people poke fun at it, but I like the sound.
 
Don't they have two languages in Norwegian
 
I can listen to Russians and Germans all day. *swoon*
 
@SPavel Two written languages, yep. There was a major spelling reform, I think it was in the early 1900's.
 
@goodguy5 ze Russians are interested in vat you haf to say az vell
Please speak your state sekrets into zis mikrofon
 
sploosh
 
2:03 PM
Comrade Ivanov, look into zis...sploosh.
 
@SPavel When I was a kid I used to wonder why haven't the English speakers reformed their language
But I guess it's just that much easier to do when the language is confined to pretty much a single country.
(also, both forms of Norwegian are still extant, instead of the Nynorsk supplanting the Bokmål... I can imagine the mess that could cause if various English spelling reforms started bickering)
 
English is fine the way it is, it's other languages that need reforms
 
@SPavel skinner.jpg
 
@goodguy5 the answer is much better. Still not sure if I agree yet. Thinking...
 
@kviiri Nicely done by that teacher. :)
 
2:08 PM
@KorvinStarmast She was a very sweet lady! (I hope she still is)
 
@DavidCoffron Then put up an opposing answer ^_^
I was also unsure about my phrasing when I first put it up, but I couldn't figure out how else to say it until you pointed it out.
 
She suffered a bit of a nervous breakdown later, because some students used to bully and pester her :( She just liked reading books with students, but couldn't maintain discipline against a determined opposition.
 
Some of my favorite music is the a capella singing of the Don Cossack choir.
 
@DavidCoffron which one?
 
I think she'd be an excellent teacher in a perfect world where people wouldn't be jerks.
 
2:10 PM
@goodguy5 I'm also not sure I disagree yet. ^_^
 
2
A: Cover with reach weapons

goodguy5No cover is applied. The Reach is a red herring. It doesn't affect whether or not cover applies. The only thing that it does here is allow the attacker to reach the target. With that in mind we can evaluate whether or not an attack from position 'X' incurs cover from position 'T'. Cover ...

 
hmmm yeah
 
Grid play is tough in 5e because there aren't any good rules for it
 
@DavidCoffron pathfinder had a chart, iirc, regarding how line of effect with cover worked.
I don't think 5e has any such infographic
 
@DavidCoffron Fwiw I generally just ignore Mearls' interpretations of the rules not because they are unofficial but because 90% of them straight up contradict the rules.
 
2:14 PM
4e did too. I usually use 4e cover rules when I play 5e with battle maps, but officially... I don't think there is anything
 
oooh. 250 and 251 of the dmg DO have an infographic
 
AFB unfortunately...
 
Speaking of grid rulings... I've been trying to work something out regarding aoe spell targeting
4
Q: How does Spell Targeting work diagonally on a grid?

Dnd junkieLast session, our mage wanted to attack diagonally with a cube spell attack, thunderwave. Playing on a 5x5 grid map, my DM said he couldn't. He said the mage could only place the cube horizontally or vertically. Is this correct?

Essentially this question really
If the caster is green, blue being the aoe of a cube spell, is that legal?
 
personally, Id say no
 
I can't check the rules right now, but my guess is that it's perfectly legal and something I would personally houserule to illegal faster than you can say "but".
 
2:19 PM
but as a houserule
@DavidCoffron "afb"?
 
Spell AoE's are already simplifications for the sake of smooth gameplay which in my opinion is reason enough to actually keep them simple.
 
What about sending line-based spells diagonally
 
The only way I'd allow diags is if you had spell templates
if so, go for it
at my table
 
did you see Xanathar's?
 
Yup. And we have and use templates at our table to great effect
 
2:23 PM
@NautArch Does Xanathar's have a clarification on this?
 
@SirCinnamon It does under Chapter 2
 
@SirCinnamon not really. But it provides optional rules for using templates
and other ways of determining spell effects. I don't think it unambiguously resolves this issue though.
 
@goodguy5 AFB means away from book
 
@NautArch I dont have access to that page evidently, but I'll check my book when I get home
 
ugh, Apparently, the DMG disagrees with me.
but in a stupid way
 
2:27 PM
@Rubiksmoose For Square templates, it does not show diagonals like with a cone template. But if you did allow it to work like that, then you apply the rule on whether or not the area covers at least half the square.
 
@Rubiksmoose If you use templates, I have a question for you: Do you allow the point of origin anywhere on the casters square? only on the faces?
 
@SirCinnamon This is terrifying, clearly some sort of Far Realm apparition
 
@SirCinnamon a cube spell usually has the origin as the center, no?
 
@SirCinnamon As funny as it might sound, the question hasn't come up. So I think we've been using an anything goes approach to the PoO
 
I think the template makes it simple to overlay, but also count the total boxes to make sure. If creating diagonals effectively creates a larger area of effect by utilizing the diagonals (i haven't done the math on this to see if it's true), then I wouldn't allow it.
 
2:28 PM
@DavidCoffron Im thinking thunderwave at the moment, which does not
 
According to the DMG the following results in half cover ('-' is empty, 'a' attacker, 'c' creature, 't' target):
t - -
c - -
- - a
 
@NautArch usually you won't get any more squares from a diagonal orientation
 
And even if it is origin=center, can the caster cast it running angled to the grid in that case?? Grid play is an optional rule after all
 
@SirCinnamon thunderwave definitely does
And I would say yes, diagonal is fine (Raw)
 
15
Q: Is Thunderwave centered on the caster?

GamerJoshThis came up in game tonight. Thunderwave is a spell with Range: Self (15-foot cube). The description reads: A wave of thunderous force sweeps out from you. Each creature in a 15-foot cube originating from you... Players Handbook, 282-283 Does the area of effect center on the caster (ex...

Originating from you, where cube spells have a point of origin on one face of the cube
(Absolutely fair confusion that is the worst wording of that imaginable)
 
2:31 PM
Oh. That's not how I interpreted the wording of cube at all
Gross, but ok
 
@NautArch Or I'd let it roll both ways. Since enemy spellcasters can also position spells optimally I don't think it truly matters that much. Though there are far fewer spellcasting enemies especially at low levels.
 
Wait. So 5e has optional rules for grid combat, and default spell area is measured in cubes but also cones and spheres and stuff, but there are no rules for how to map them onto the grid?
 
@DavidCoffron In the description of spell templates it says cube originates from a point on its face - which is far. But then using the words "originating from you" especially on a spell based on a soundwave its pretty easy to think its centered on you
@Magician :)
 
@Magician it does...they're just not always clear.
 
@SirCinnamon Then the origin has to be on a face not a corner so your diagonal above wouldnt work but if you moved it down a tiny bit it'd be fine
 
2:34 PM
@DavidCoffron As long a point of the face is within the caster's square?
 
@SirCinnamon that's what I would say. I think the grid rules treat the creature as at any point within the square
 
Well. Can you angle cones? Are there rules for partially covered squares?
 
@Magician if more than half the square is affected, it counts
 
@Magician Angling of cone and line spells is at least implied
 
Then I guess there isn't much of a problem with angling cubes, either. Other than the immense headache.
...but why is Thunderwave a cube? That's hardly a natural shape.
 
2:36 PM
@Magician I guess simplicity.
 
@Magician If there were ever a time to use a cone....
 
But the system already has cones.
 
How many spells even use cubes?
 
I mean. Thunderwave is a 4e spell. 4e had square everything, it was great. Was it just copied over for no particular reason?
And that's why seeing an angled cube makes me twitch
 
Could the cube be angled in 3D too?
 
2:38 PM
@kviiri don't see why not, gotta handle flying creatures
 
@SirCinnamon That's a really good question
 
@kviiri Don't do this to me
 
@SirCinnamon I'm visualizing a cube just glitching around a PC as if it was a buggy video game
 
@kviiri It really bugs me that cubes are a casting shape at all - they dont have... direction
 
@Rubiksmoose I have a feeling the DM and/or PC is making some mistakes with Armor of Agathys
 
2:41 PM
I'm visualizing 4e people (who live in Chebyshev space) seeing this tilted cube and dropping dead on the spot
 
I guess cylinder suffers the same problem a bit?
 
@NautArch I think the biggest one could be having waves of enemies attack the tank that they cannot hurt and that kills them with cold damage.
 
@DavidCoffron please review the changes to my answer and (assuming you upvoted) please confirm that your upvote still applies.
 
/not attacking with range
but yeah I suspect there is defintely some rules problems at the core as well.
 
@Rubiksmoose All it takes is a hit or two to remove the spell. Let's see they're upcasting to level 3. That's 15HP. Even with damage reductions, it's going to disappear after a few hits.
and that's just if they only attack the PC in melee. A ranged attacker can remove the armor without even getting near.
 
2:44 PM
@NautArch I'm VtC until we get some answers
There is too much room here and not enough info.
and hohenheim has been around so they'll be back with a clarification sooner rather than later probably.
 
@Rubiksmoose yeah, i'd like more info, but may still put together the answer on how armor of agathys works.
guess they're a Fullmetal Alchemist fan
 
@NautArch But that might not actually be the issue at all is the thing.
 
@goodguy5 looks good to me and that's how I figured RAW would work (albeit in a silly way). That's also basically how it worked in 4e.
 
@Rubiksmoose i'm having a hard time seeing how it isn't. Agathys is very much a temporary thing and better suited for creatures that don't get hit a lot. It'll help stop an initial attacker, but it's going to dissipate pretty quickly otherwise if it's on a frontliner.
 
@DavidCoffron I don't have quite as photographic a memory of the DMG, not having read through it as much as the PHB
I'm not even sure I've read through the DMG, cover to cover.
 
2:47 PM
@NautArch from the question: "s long as the caster has the temporary hit points from Armor of Agathys, the attacker takes damage, even if the attacker didn't actually deal any damage."
Thus, the tank has found a way to reduce the damage to 0. Thus temp HP remains. That is probably wrong but we have no idea how it is wrong/
 
@Rubiksmoose I can't think of anything that would reduce attacks that much. But even then, stop using melee attacks on the tank!
 
Beautiful afternoon over there in Estonia.
 
@Rubiksmoose That tactic is delightful. note to self
 
@goodguy5 @goodguy5 it's a good read, but a lot of it is filled so if you are an experienced GM, most of it is unnecessary.
 
@Rubiksmoose Are there many effects in the game that reduce damage a flat number? Resistance divides by half so that only makes 1 damage into 0 damage, right? Even a hit of 2 damage deals damage
 
2:52 PM
@Rubiksmoose @Rubiksmoose it is definitely the way the spell works which is clever (although not that effective unless the NPCs are doing very little damage)
 
@NautArch exactly, thus the premise of the question is based on unclear (and likely misapplied) rules understanding. That is where the solution to this question will come from likely, not AoA.
@SirCinnamon I cannot think of a way to consistently reduce damage to 0. If there was a way at such a low level, every heavy armor user would be doing it.
 
@Rubiksmoose I think you're right. Hopefully Hohenheim jumps back in with some details.
 
Heavy Armor Master reduced damage by 3, flat.
right?
 
@Rubiksmoose Probably applying resistance twice or something illegal
 
@Rubiksmoose I'm starting to think my bard should have taken it when I dipped warlock.
 
2:55 PM
This question appears to be about the order of reducing damage, between heavy armor master and the temp HP of armor of agathys. I think this is either a dupe, or heavily related to this questionKorvinStarmast 2 mins ago
@goodguy5 correct.
 
And the answer to that guy's question is easy "don't attack them"
 
@goodguy5 or it's attack them from ranged, with magic, or in melee with magical items.
 
@NautArch that only solves half the problem
 
@goodguy5 how? once the temp HP is gone, the AoA is gone.
 
Hey, all. How's the Stack?
 
2:59 PM
but a bard with cutting words and Armor of Agathys could be a dangerous combo with a high level spell slot.
i'm really bummed I didn't put that together now.
 
I'm really hoping that the character has some form of resistance
 
barbarian maybe?
 
@NautArch wouldn't work with heavy armor... unless he got some sort of (homebrew?) armor that counted as both heavy and medium. like mithril plate or something
 
@goodguy5 Medium armor? for Unarmored defense?
 
@goodguy5 good point :)
 
3:03 PM
Oh no i guess rage doesnt require unarmored
 
@SirCinnamon for the rage bonuses
i.e. reduction
 
Right
 
@NautArch You think? BI is so limited I'm not sure I see the benefit when it can be applied in so much better places (eg keeping an ally from dying)
 
@Rubiksmoose It's not that limited with a short rest refresh once you hit that level. But if the bard is in melee, it's a nice buffer. Now that i'm thinking about it, it's rare that I'm toe to toe with someone. That temp HP would drop.
 
@NautArch at 5th level you'd get 25 temp HP and be able to do as much damage if someone hits you with a melee attack. However, why not just polymorph into a bear with that same slot. You get more HP for one thing.
(also it is not a bard spell so you'd need to use MS to get it)
 
3:07 PM
@Rubiksmoose because it's not concentration. and I've got a warlock dip so could have picked it up instead of osmething else.
 
@NautArch that is fair.
@NautArch riiiight right makes sense. Yeah I can see that being good sure.
 
note to self.... Barb-lock
 
You could also have an allied paladin with the damage sponging effect (cant remember which oath). Then you still get hit but take no damage (since your pali-bro took it for you)
 
@goodguy5 the problem is how much temp HP and how quickly you're going to lose it.
 
yea, but... resistance
 
3:13 PM
@goodguy5 So you're thinking the warlock is the primary class with the dip into barb?
 
@NautArch yes
 
You could get resistance from other classes... let me think...
 
Dragonborns have elemental resistances
 
Pseudo resist from abjuration wizard...
 
@NautArch what are you getting at in your comment on my answer?
 
3:20 PM
@goodguy5 that i think you were right the first time.
that offset is not opposite
 
@NautArch ah. I think that by every interpretation except the RAW from the DMG, I'm right.
It's silly to think otherwise.
 
it's silly to think that if you're offset from something you're still opposite from it?
 
yes
 
i don't think i agree.
If you are offset by 5' in a lateral direction, you are no longer opposite.
 
exactly
 
3:23 PM
That would be my thought as well
 
More to my point, it's silly to think that the example in my RAI section would give any cover
 
right, I don't think the RAW is what you have. But maybe that's the difference between adjacent and opposite vs Opposite only?
 
Man, I get irrationally peeved when people just copy and paste the entire spell and/or ability into a question (even casting time, upcasting effects, etc) without pruning it at all for the purposes of their question.
Consider this revision: https://rpg.stackexchange.com/posts/53506/revisions
Sooo much better and easier to read.
 
Eagle is doing something
 
I don't think the intent for Half Cover is non-adjacent.
 
3:33 PM
last time it did this the mate appeared
 
and it's gone.
 
Sometimes you just feel like screaming. --Bird
 
Big mood
 
@NautArch What do you mean?
Also, by the strictest interpretation, do all creatures other than the first in a line of effect get +2 to their saves? (regarding other creatures as cover)
 
@Rubiksmoose I share your peeve. I tried to +1 your edit and failed. 8^D
 
3:44 PM
@goodguy5 I think of cover by creature working like Flanking which requires adjacent and opposite. If something isn't directly in front of you, it's not providing cover.
 
@NautArch I don't think it needs to be adjacent. I think that a melee combatant can provide cover against a ranged combatant.
 
The bird is redecorating
The egg has sunken rather deep in the nest, it's hard to see now even when the eagle isn't there.
 
@goodguy5 I don't think it does, I think th eintent (unproven either way) is that there needs to be someone directly in front. Once you are offset, cover no longer applies.
 
@goodguy5 @NautArch you might both be working from different rulings. RAW vs RAI
 
what about the case of:
A_____________________________C T
And if you have your DMG handy, look at p250. I'm trying to find it online, but no luck
 
3:53 PM
@kviiri I noticed that, it gives me some anxiety to think of it singing right through the bottom of the nest
sinking
This bird's posture at the moment is odd, i guess he's sunning himself?
 
@DavidCoffron I think i'm coming from both. The requirement is "between you" which to me suggests that all three creatures must be in a straight line.
 
sorry for the (lack of) quality. had to take it myself
 
i am so confused by that page. I don't understand the red/black line difference, and I don't know why you'd 'choose' to use a red line over a black line to attack the same creature.
 
Pursuant to my text in my answer. one sec
 
I don't think it's a "choose"
 
4:00 PM
To determine whether a target has cover against an attack or other effect on a grid, choose a corner of the attacker's space... trace imaginary lines from that corner to every corner of any one square the target occupies. If one or two of those lines are blocked by an obstacle (including another creature), the target has half cover....
I guess now that I have an image, I might as well attach it.
oh. found a better one via image google search
 
@NautArch You choose any square you want, so if the "best" square has lines blocked, then there is cover etc.
 
just better quality
 
@goodguy5 oh I remember that. For some reason I thought what was 4e. Whoops
 
that boggles my mind
it makes perfect sense for stuff like "walls"
but seems silly for soft cover targets
 
@goodguy5 creatures are constantly in motion not stationary in their squares. That's why creatures cause cover
 
4:12 PM
@DavidCoffron I agree that creatures cause cover, but My problem is the way that it defines it mechanically.
 
Picture the creature standing in opposite corners of the square, that way it makes more sense.
 
WAIT A MINUTE
(caps intentional)
the example they give of the ogre.
If you use the back corner as the "best square" then the target doesn't have cover.
 
@goodguy5 your right. The PC should've waited til.the ogre was in that section of its space (narratively speaking)
 
but that invalidates the example. it isn't following its own rules
And that's still not my point.
I don't think that a source of half cover should be governed by the same strictness of rules as a source of full cover.
since there's no quarter-cover.
 
@goodguy5 even if the example is bunk the rules still stand.
Just imagine that quarter cover isn't enough to get a significant advantage. Bang now you have quarter cover
After all half is +2 a.c./ 3/4 is +5 ac / extrapolating, 1/4 would be +.8 a.c. and we always round down in 5e
 
4:19 PM
wouldn't 1/4 be 1.25?
and besides the fact that this is all a problem that arises because of using "squares"
 
Half is 2 fifths of 3/4. 2 fifths of +2 is .8
 
oh. misread. my bad
 
Just eyeball it and you'll be fine, fussing over rules this much isn't good for you.
 
@GreySage I mean... yea. but isn't that our "job" here? lol
 
@goodguy5 the creature doesn't occupy the entire square but occupies any space in that square at a given time (that's how I imagine it)
 
4:21 PM
yes. they're electrons, I get it.
but if we compare it to another source of half-cover, a waist-high wall.
 
@goodguy5 actually, electrons is a good analogy. Quantum mechanically speaking there is a uniform probability of occupying any space within the square (or group of squares for larger creatures)
 
Beautiful evening sun at Eagleland, Estonia.
 
would you give any mechanical bonus for having a waist-high wall where the "creatures" go in this example?
T - -
w - -
- A -

what about
T - -
w - -
- - A
or
T - -
w - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - A
 
If half the points of one face on a 3d cube are covered, yes. (3d space is hard to imagine)
(Especially when they arent lined up perfectly)
 
@kviiri Eagle is in "conserve heat" mode now.
 
4:26 PM
Then we just disagree.
It doesn't make any sense to me, so I'm not playing with it that way. I don't know anyone that would.
 
Id just imagine the creature ducking behind the wall for the attack, narratively speaking ("constantly in motion")
 
but there is no "behind" for most of those positions
 
@GreySage how is there a Best square when any square is a hit on the creature.
 
Ok. Against the wall and down
To get half cover
(If possible)
(Depends on the angle)
It just makes you slightly less likely to hit (which makes sense on a smaller target)
 
@NautArch For some chosen squares, the arrows pass through more or fewer obstacles. The "best" square will be the one that passes through the least obstacles. If the best you can do is 2/4 arrows are obstructed, then: half-cover.
 
4:30 PM
whatever. If we were in person, I'm pretty sure I could break out some legos and convince you to come to my siide.
 
@goodguy5 Im pretty sure I could do the same. There is less of a target if someone is using the half-wall to hide part of their body at the angle. Whether it is enough for half cover depends on the geometry
 
Also, it's worth noting that medium creatures don't provide cover for sufficiently large creatures, as they do not "cover half their body"
 
The same principle is used in soccer/football for goal keepers
 
as to what the magic number for that is, who knows
 
The magic number is 2/4 arrows (by the rules). The magic number IRL is 50% cross sectional surface area. It's a reasonable approximation
 
4:36 PM
I meant "Magic number" as in "what the ruler for size difference is", sorry. I was holding two thoughts and didn't explain the one I wrote.
 
@goodguy5 oh that I have no idea. A medium goliath could be almost the same height as an enlarged human (per the spell)
 
Right. Two size categories definitely doesn't provide cover.
Halfling in front of an ogre? No penalty to shoot the ogre.
 
Eagle is pretty in the golden sunlight
 
But I don't know about one size category... Halfing vs dwarf, for example
 
@Rubiksmoose Thanks for that edit, I agree. Also, when the material is not openly distributed (e.g. part of the SRD or basic rules) it's doubly important to only copy/paste what's necessary. We operate on a fair use basis, expecting people to have the material for reference, and only share what's necessary for analysis/discussion of it. There are some who want to transcribe entire chunks of content so as to give it to anyone who hasn't got the book, but that's not fair use.
 
4:43 PM
pedant is one of my new favorite words
 
@goodguy5 I love when they wear amulets
Then its a pedants pendant
 
XD
 
Or when they put icons of amulents on their banners
Pedants pendant pennant
 
what if they have tiny amulets that they put onto ants?
Pedant's pet ant's pendant pennant
 
@SirCinnamon "actually it's an amulet"
 
4:45 PM
@doppelgreener Pdant
What if the banners is part of them preparing for a big gala
Pedant's pet ant's prep dance pendant pennants
 
that's a stretch but I'll allow it
 
@doppelgreener The PC word is "periapt"
 
@SPavel Pedant's Pendant = Perfectionist's Periapt
 
@SPavel is that how you spell that?
holy crap, I've been spelling that wrong my entire life.
Peripat is what I've been doing/saying. thanks brain
 
Do you enunciate the whole thing? its a "PARE-EE-APT"?
 
4:51 PM
@goodguy5 Spelling wrong your entire life? You must be a sorcerer.
 
heh
 
To be fair, i've been ironically saying amulet as omlette for so long that its hard to stop
 
@SirCinnamon that's pretty funny
 
@SirCinnamon Omelet of Mighty Fists
 
@SPavel Might be a neopets item
 
4:53 PM
Omelet of proof against detection and location
 
Check the giant omlette every day
 
consider the plight of the neopets though
 
Can't make an amulet without breaking some eggs
 
note to self..... make a tavern that makes Omelette of ___ (any amulet power)
 
two decades ago, millions of kids had neopets, sometimes dozens of them!
 
4:54 PM
it lasts until you eat your next meal or 12 hours, whichever is sooner
 
and in the time since, most of us have moved on or lost our account credentials altogether
 
@doppelgreener I think before I stopped playing, I checked them into the roach motel
 
there are tens of millions of neopets who are starving and will never be fed
 
@goodguy5 Nice save
 
@SPavel good on you
 
4:55 PM
Close that loophole
 
@doppelgreener Yeah but now they have to spend eternity in a roach motel
 
@SirCinnamon yea. Originally I was like "yea, you can choose to starve to death to keep XX effect", but then I realized there were plenty of ways around it
 
@SPavel i'm sure they're building their own internal support networks to stay fed and to be able to change their housing and so on
 
@goodguy5 If I have a wizard displace food into my stomach, it doesnt count!
 
@SirCinnamon can I get a wizard to displace food out of my stomach
It's no bulimia if it's magic!
 
4:57 PM
It's often joked that skynet will be real, but little does mankind know that neopets are staging an uprising.
 
@goodguy5 Ready Player One 2: Revenge of the Neopets
 
actually, that would have been funny. oasis pets
I don't think I saw many/any
maybe one bird or something, but it seemed ornamental
 

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