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Miniman
Miniman
7:03 AM
@doppelgreener Sorry for all the pings.
@doppelgreener And for the additional ping incurred by apologizing for all the pings.
And for- no, I'm done.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Miniman There is a crystalline lizard monster thingy in the starting area that drops a weapon upgrade component if you beat it.
 
Miniman
Miniman
@doppelgreener Oh, that thing. Does it sound arrogant if I say that didn't seem secret or like a miniboss?
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@trogdor I have!
 
trogdor
trogdor
ok, then my memory has not betrayed me,.... this time
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Ben I've played dark souls 1 and 3 and Bloodborne, and a bit of 2.
 
Miniman
Miniman
7:07 AM
@doppelgreener I didn't realise you hadn't actually beaten 2!
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Miniman I played enough of 2 to decide I don't like 2. D': I've beaten #1 and I'm close to the ending of #3 and of Bloodborne.
 
Miniman
Miniman
@doppelgreener Yep, that's totally understandable - I had a similar experience with SotFS (as we've discussed in the past). I'm surprised to hear you haven't finished off Bloodborne and 3, though - I get the impression you like them, so I'm guessing it's just lack of time?
 
BESW
BESW
@Miniman Sounds of the Fan Service?
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Miniman Yeah, pretty much.
@BESW Songs of the Fan Service.
 
Miniman
Miniman
@BESW Scholar of the First Sin - a Dark Souls 2 remake which, in my opinion, doubled down on most of the problems with Dark Souls 2.
They went on to do it again, too.
 
BESW
BESW
7:12 AM
Ah, Screams of the Flopped Sequel.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
The deal breaker for me was the enemy removal mechanic.
@BESW Yes that one :)
 
Miniman
Miniman
"Oh, the Silver Knight archers in Anor Londo were an iconic part of Dark Souls 1, so let's remake Anor Londo with so many archers that players won't even be able to do anything except sprint helplessly through."
"Yes this is good game design and will definitely be popular why are we even still talking about this."
 
BESW
BESW
> Sprint Helplessly. You can move twice as many zones as normal with a successful Overcome action, but until your next turn you must defend against any attack made into any zone you moved through, in addition to the attack's intended target.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
> Sprint helplessly. You may move through up to three zones while ignoring all attacks made into those zones, but for each zone you must take a consequence, and for the consequence you must fill your consequence slot with capital letter A's. Lots of them.
 
trogdor
trogdor
lol
 
Miniman
Miniman
7:18 AM
I think a big factor in many of the series' design decisions that I would consider poor is the belief that extreme difficulty is Dark Souls' "thing".
 
trogdor
trogdor
that certainly doesn't seem to be the only "thing" the series has
 
BESW
BESW
> Help Sprintlessly. You can automatically succeed with style on an action to help another character, if you fill your lowest consequence slot with an aspect representing why your cell phone doesn't work.
 
Miniman
Miniman
I'm not denying that high levels of difficulty are an important part of the experience that makes Dark Souls awesome, of course. I just think that "make it as hard as possible" is a design goal that doesn't lead to good outcomes.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Miniman In no. 2 or others?
@Miniman I agree
 
trogdor
trogdor
@doppelgreener I think he is just generally saying that only shooting for difficulty is missing the overall point of Dark Souls
 
Miniman
Miniman
7:22 AM
@doppelgreener In general - the changes they made in SotFS and in 3's version of Anor Londo are both examples.
@trogdor Yep!
 
trogdor
trogdor
:)
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Miniman gotcha
 
Miniman
Miniman
I mean, not least, in the original Anor Londo you can't just sprint through. Even the speedrunners have to take a moment there. Whereas the new one basically eliminates interesting gameplay in favour of just running.
 
BESW
BESW
7:37 AM
> We Can't Stop Here. Whenever you enter a new location, you can create an aspect describing why it's not a safe place to linger, with one free invoke.
 
Miniman
Miniman
7:58 AM
Thinking about it, I think it's fair to say that Anor Londo is an extreme example of a phenomenon that's taken place throughout the series. The first game has a lot of emphasis on single enemies who, thanks to incredibly specific placement, completely screw you over even though there's only one of them. As the series has progressed, it seems to me that it's moved away from that and more towards "you put a toe across this scripted line, now you're fighting a whole bunch of guys at once".
 
Ben
Ben
I have one word for you: poise
 
Miniman
Miniman
8:10 AM
@Ben Keep talking...?
 
Ben
Ben
8:22 AM
It means nothing anymore. The only armour that's worth a damn in that respect is Havel's and maybe one or two other sets. But otherwise it's just "congratulations, this set of plate mail gives you 3 poise".
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
8:35 AM
@PurpleMonkey FYI the comment flagging dialog has changed. :) The old middle three reasons got merged together since they were functionally the same.
@Miniman I can think of a couple of issues along those lines from DS3, though I took them as a reasonable challenge, and usually they follow the conservation of ninjutsu rule.
 
Miniman
Miniman
8:50 AM
@doppelgreener I'm not saying they don't make reasonable challenges, just that I find them to be a less interesting type of challenge.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Miniman gotcha
 
Purple Monkey
Purple Monkey
9:10 AM
@doppelgreener Ah, excellent, thank you. I thinking of raising a meta about it soon but I guess now I don't have to :,D
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
\o/
 
eimyr
eimyr
9:53 AM
yo
 
kviiri
kviiri
10:23 AM
1
Q: How can I show, that character knows how to handle only one specific weapon?

Artur_BagrovFor example, my character has Big Gun and has +4 bonus when attack using it. Any other weapon doesn't grant him any benefits. Do I need to use skills, aspects or stunts?

fate fate-core
Not a Fate expert so I won't answer that, but I'm curious about this - isn't usually the way to do this to give the character an aspect like "Master of the Blade, the Whole Blade and Nothing but the Blade", invoke it when they use "The Blade" and compel when they try to use something else?
 
BESW
BESW
Hmm. I'm pretty sure we've covered that in another question.
 
kviiri
kviiri
10:38 AM
@BESW How would you do it? As far as my RPG acquaintances go, you're quite solidly the lead authority on Fate.
 
BESW
BESW
There's a ton of different ways to do it.
Probably the easiest is to make it a stunt, either a character stunt representing that this character is especially good with Big Guns, or an item stunt (extra) representing that this Big Gun is especially good for whoever wields it.
 
Trish
Trish
Could it be a rarely enforced "flaw" that he can't handle any other weapon?
 
BESW
BESW
Yes, but that would be... messy and I'd question what narrative it's supporting.
Basically he'd dump a lot of points into a skill AND dedicate an aspect slot to saying that he can't use the skill in most situations, then milk not using the skill for fate points by compelling the aspect.
 
Trish
Trish
unless one looses the weapon all the time, it would be pretty much irrelevant, yes.
 
BESW
BESW
If somebody came to me with that in a game, I'd ask 'em why they're making life harder than it needs to be.
But yes, technically that would work too.
 
kviiri
kviiri
10:44 AM
Yeah, that sounds a bit bad.
 
BESW
BESW
Fate asks "What's the story?" and then finds the mechanics which fit it. Often multiple mechanics will fit, and the group can pick which they prefer.
 
Trish
Trish
I mean, as long as his speacial weapon is available and he can use it, he can use it - the whole flaw thing doesn'T even apply. Then he looses it, and he starts to milk fate points, spending some to get another M16 (if that was his weapon to beginwith)
The narrative it supports? he wastes guns... :/
 
BESW
BESW
> Only Big Guns Please. You get +4 using Shoot to attack with guns that require both hands to pick up.
or....
> Trouble: Fat trigger finger.
Shoot +4
> Big Fancy Gun. This gun grants +4 when using Shoot to attack with it.
> Aspect: A Derringer Broke My Heart.
Shoot +4
 
nwp
nwp
> Repeated Aspect Posting. +5 to disruption when used to split a chatroom into Fate supporters and DnD players.
(it's a joke, not intended to make you stop posting aspects)
 
Asteria
Asteria
Greetings
 
BESW
BESW
10:54 AM
[wave]
 
eimyr
eimyr
hello
long time no see
 
BESW
BESW
> Poe's Lawyer. You get +2 when using Rapport to sow confusion on the Internet.
 
Asteria
Asteria
hows everyone doing
 
BESW
BESW
@nwp So long as people continue to ask questions about D&D 5e without specifying either system or edition, I will be guiltless about writing stunts inspired by their woes.
2
@Asteria Better than last week! So there's that. What's new?
 
kviiri
kviiri
@Asteria Great, thanks :)
Wow, the main site's review notifier is showing five review items for me! It's like Stackoverflow in here!
 
eimyr
eimyr
11:00 AM
> Struggle against mainstream. When bucking against the flow of the discussion roll +wit. On 10+ you post something appreciated. On 7-9 your post is noticed and choose one: your post is criticised, your post is misunderstood, your post is only noticed after a long time. On a miss the room moderator might offer a painful truth, a pointed reprimand or a hard bargain.
 
nwp
nwp
> Annoy BESW with DnD 5e assumption. Gain a new aspect.
 
eimyr
eimyr
I dislike it when people use "trigger" as a synonyms of "annoy" or "provoke". It's not what it means.
@Asteria quite well, thank you. How about you?
 
nwp
nwp
But that is too long. The aspect name has to be short. I think.
 
eimyr
eimyr
how about "Annoy BESW"?
 
nwp
nwp
That would have been better, but too late now.
 
BESW
BESW
11:04 AM
> Ruin a word. At each significant milestone, choose a word and explain how the world of the game has come to assign it a new and baffling meaning.
 
eimyr
eimyr
@BESW You should be playing Dialect instead Gain +2 to Lore whenever you gain a new Extra.
 
BESW
BESW
> Pedant sniping. You can use Provoke instead of Rapport to overcome a social obstacle if you misuse a word while doing so.
 
eimyr
eimyr
Honestly, @BESW, my PbtA post was neither appreciated or noticed, I think I deserve at least a painful truth, a pointed reprimand or a hard bargain.
 
BESW
BESW
@eimyr You can either languish in obscurity confident in the purity of your solitary exercise, or re-write your post in a system the chat's more familiar with.
 
eimyr
eimyr
A hard bargain then. I shall not yield, even at the cost of being overlooked.
 
Asteria
Asteria
11:17 AM
I'm great! Going to GM my first game tomorrow evening, a Call of Cthulhu session. Super excited!~
decided I'd jump on and what with everyone while prepping my materials
 
eimyr
eimyr
Amazing! Well done!
I've never had a chance to play CoC. How's the prep going?
 
Asteria
Asteria
@eimyr well so far! All of my players have no RP experience, so I'm making character "reminder" cards and inspiration tokens so I can reward good RP attempts.
going to be a fairly lax game but should be fun
 
eimyr
eimyr
You don't seem to be very stressed. I remember I was shaking before my first GM attempt - but then, I was 16 and completely unprepared. It's good.
 
BESW
BESW
Very cool.
 
Asteria
Asteria
haha I'll be stressing more by tomorrow, I'm already super unable to sleep xP
 
eimyr
eimyr
11:24 AM
I'm sure you'll do well. The first game is always about feeling whether the group likes the game at all, rather than an exercise in GM virtuoserie. Is that an IRL or online game?
 
Asteria
Asteria
IRL game, since I'm currently living at a ski resort for work it's just with some workmates.
 
eimyr
eimyr
Fancy work then, sending you to ski resorts.
 
Asteria
Asteria
haha nah just computer tech. It's only an itty bitty resort, like 2 hours from where I live normally.
The mountain is only like, 40 meters above the minimum requirements to be qualified as a mountain. Nothing fancy here
should make for a good game though, sitting by a fire
 
BESW
BESW
What's your cutoff for mountainhood?
 
eimyr
eimyr
Is your game set in a remote ski resort deep in the wilderness of Mount Spookcragge with scarce provisions and a host that looks a bit fishy?
 
kviiri
kviiri
11:29 AM
Wow, that sounds like it should set an impressive atmosphere for RPGs.
 
Asteria
Asteria
@BESW It's 1,500km, roughly
 
eimyr
eimyr
...I think you might be on Mars
 
Asteria
Asteria
wow that k is not supose to be there
try 1,500m
 
eimyr
eimyr
:D
 
Asteria
Asteria
I mean....yeah...my mountain is on mars
 
kviiri
kviiri
11:32 AM
Hey, in my country at least the comma is a decimal separator, so that'd be just 1,5 km :)
 
BESW
BESW
....Yeeeeah, the highest spot on my island is just over 400m.
 
eimyr
eimyr
... how did I not notice that?
Well, my parent's house is on 1112 above sea level, so not quite there yet.
 
Asteria
Asteria
@BESW INFINITE ROLEPLAYING POWER ...... itty bitty island
Jeez that just shows our tiny the mountain is
 
eimyr
eimyr
nah, it's appreciable height
you can totally have a FIS-approved facilities on 1540m
 
kviiri
kviiri
Back when I was a kid, my idea of a large hill was a 20 meter high landfill mound.
(40 meters from sea level)
 
Asteria
Asteria
11:37 AM
@kviiri itty bitty hills make the best napping spots
 
kviiri
kviiri
@Asteria That one doesn't, people from all around the town come to the hill for sledding in the Winters and teenagers get drunk there in the Summertime :P
I guess the latter is mostly because there's only one way to get to the hill by car, so it's easy to notice if the police are coming and evacuate the booze immediately to the woods nearby.
 
Asteria
Asteria
@kviiri teenagers scare the living hill outta me
 
kviiri
kviiri
I was in one of those parties once, although I abstained from alcohol strictly before reaching the age of majority. The view was nice, the people less so :P
@Asteria But luckily, there's a much more serene forest next to the hill, plenty of good napping spots there :)
 
Asteria
Asteria
@kviiri I am of the belief that such scenic hills exist purely to nap on
 
kviiri
kviiri
@Asteria :)
 
trogdor
trogdor
12:26 PM
I am too afraid of heights for that
something low to the ground for me thanks
though to be fair, I do like the view from a height up place to see the sunset from, some advantages there
but not for sleeping XD
 
BanjoFox
BanjoFox
wouldn't a hill still be considered "ground"?
 
trogdor
trogdor
@BanjoFox you may be technically correct there, but you can still fall from it XD
 
BanjoFox
BanjoFox
very true
 
kviiri
kviiri
I'm very afraid of heights too, but it somehow varies on the style of heights. I'm much more spooked by trees than rocks, for instance.
Completely irrational in the sense that a good tree has lots of branches to securely grasp, while rocks are slippery, uneven and harder to grab.
 
trogdor
trogdor
@kviiri same here really, like being on a plane, despite the fact that it is possibly the highest point I have ever been on, is not as bad as being up a really tall building
probably because I can't see the ground
 
kviiri
kviiri
12:37 PM
I associate a plane with secure ground, so it's not really worse than being upstairs for me, at least for industrial-size jets.
As for the smaller propeller planes, they are a lot more shakey and get me unnerved. Still not as bad as being high up in a tree, though!
 
trogdor
trogdor
@kviiri I was on a plane we call an "island hopper" around here
it was not the sturdiest thing, but it was flying lower and for not as far, and strangely enough had more space for us
so it was actually still better than most planes I have been on
it was like, a 30 minute flight
which for me is soooo much shorter than any other flight I have been on
typically to go anywhere I have flown to it takes 9-12 hours of flight from here
 
kviiri
kviiri
Heh :)
You live in Guam too?
 
trogdor
trogdor
best bonus there is for me is to shorten the flight time
@kviiri indeed
 
kviiri
kviiri
Neat!
 
trogdor
trogdor
it's a neat place to live
the only major downside I have found is how long I have to fly to go see family
 
kviiri
kviiri
12:45 PM
The longest domestic plane trips here take about 1h 30min. They have a reputation for being mostly for people whose employer pays for the travel expenses.
 
trogdor
trogdor
not so here
probably half the people on a plane here are tourists
the other half are people visiting relatives or coming back from vaction or so forth
I don't know for sure obviously, but I think the majority of people on business trips are in the first class seating here
and technically I suppose we don't really have a "domestic flight" because that would basically mean flying from here to,.... here
you would just drive for at most an hour or so
and that is like, if you live on literally one end of the island and need to get all the way to the other end for some reason
 
kviiri
kviiri
Yeah, it's probably different from us where half of the country is pretty much empty :P
 
trogdor
trogdor
and, I assume, whichever country that is, much larger than a small island
:P
 
kviiri
kviiri
Finland :)
 
trogdor
trogdor
ah yeah
certainly larger
 
kviiri
kviiri
12:52 PM
Yep
People heading North usually drive or take the train I guess.
 
trogdor
trogdor
but going South they would take a plane?
there isn't a train going South too I mean?
 
kviiri
kviiri
Most of the population lives in the South. I guess people coming from North to South would take a train too :P
 
trogdor
trogdor
ok
I just usually think that if a train goes one way, there will be another going back
 
kviiri
kviiri
Yes :)
That tends to happen!
 
trogdor
trogdor
just seems like the right way to do it, even though I have rarely ever been on trains XD
 
kviiri
kviiri
12:58 PM
Hmm, theoretically if traffic was heavily one-sided, we could disassemble the trains in the popular destination and load several on a bigger train and ship them to the popular point of departure!
 
trogdor
trogdor
that seems like a lot more work
 
BanjoFox
BanjoFox
or... you have a loop at the end so that the trains can turn around.
 
trogdor
trogdor
that works too
 
kviiri
kviiri
@BanjoFox But taking trains back empty is wasteful!
 
trogdor
trogdor
I wasn't trying to say you absolutely needed it to be different trains
 
BanjoFox
BanjoFox
1:01 PM
@kviiri -- tell that to the Washington DC. metro system hahah :D
 
trogdor
trogdor
just that going back the way you came through the same travel method seems like a smart idea
 
kviiri
kviiri
I really like trains.
 
trogdor
trogdor
I actually like em a lot too
 
kviiri
kviiri
Too bad they are usually far more expensive than a bus around here and only faster if they don't experience technical issues (plot twist: they often do :<)
 
BanjoFox
BanjoFox
booo!
 
trogdor
trogdor
1:04 PM
the last trip I took was to Japan last year, and they have a really neat number of trains to use to travel
and underground subways
it was very nice to travel that way
 
BanjoFox
BanjoFox
Stupid Japan and their stupid trains! :D How dare they set the bar at measuring train delays in seconds.
 
trogdor
trogdor
I never noticed a delay
XD
 
kviiri
kviiri
Also there's no direct railway connection from Helsinki to Pori, which is the most common trip I'm making anyway, while National Road 2 goes almost directly between the two.
 
trogdor
trogdor
I like driving,.... but if I had to drive that distance (I assume a few hours at least) I would not like it so much
 
BanjoFox
BanjoFox
hrm
 
kviiri
kviiri
1:12 PM
Bus fares have gone down a lot since ten years ago, now it's like ten euros. Takes 3h 30min on bus.
But usually my SO drives me there, she doesn't mind driving that much.
 
trogdor
trogdor
I probably wouldn't mind driving that long,... unless it was all at once
no rest stops would be bad
XD
 
eimyr
eimyr
@trogdor I do two 3:15 journeys every week. You get used to it.
 
trogdor
trogdor
@eimyr I mostly mean to like, use a bathroom once or twice
 
eimyr
eimyr
it's possible not to!
 
trogdor
trogdor
possible true
I have a pea sized bladder though
(badum tish!)
XD
 
BanjoFox
BanjoFox
1:20 PM
heh... I do 1:15 hours commute daily to work (and another 1:15 back)
dangit @trogdor -- I want to favorite that but because its in three (four) posts it would seem out of context :p
 
B. S. Morganstein
B. S. Morganstein
Morning friends!
 
trogdor
trogdor
@BanjoFox Muahhahahaha!
 
Adam
Adam
@B.S.Morganstein good morning
 
trogdor
trogdor
good time of day, yes quite
I must depart for the thing called sleep now
 
BanjoFox
BanjoFox
@B.S.Morganstein -- Good morning delicious friend! :D
 
B. S. Morganstein
B. S. Morganstein
1:23 PM
@BanjoFox Are you saying that you find B. S. delicious?
 
BanjoFox
BanjoFox
@B.S.Morganstein -- it is something I picked up from Fallen London XD
 
B. S. Morganstein
B. S. Morganstein
Ah I see @BanjoFox, unfortunately the reference was lost on this Canadian
 
BanjoFox
BanjoFox
in fact... I might make this my new avatar - Hello, delicious friend
Fallen London is an RPG for mobile devices
 
B. S. Morganstein
B. S. Morganstein
Fun?
 
Anaphory
Anaphory
@BanjoFox I found tedious somewhere in the middle. The individual bits of narration are nice, but for some kinds of tasks you have to play them again and again.
 
BanjoFox
BanjoFox
1:30 PM
Its okay. It is like a choose-your-own-advenutre and you have a limited amount of turns
 
Anaphory
Anaphory
(It's been several years since I played it.)
 
BanjoFox
BanjoFox
@Anaphory -- yeah :( I played for about a month and got tired/frustrated.
 
kviiri
kviiri
For those who want to play Space Marine Mammal, but more seriously.
 
BanjoFox
BanjoFox
oh this again ;)
 
kviiri
kviiri
What again? :P
 
BanjoFox
BanjoFox
1:38 PM
Apocalypse World.
It does look cool though just felt like teasing about it ;)
 
NautArch
NautArch
top o my morning everyone!
 
B. S. Morganstein
B. S. Morganstein
@NautArch 'ello
 
kviiri
kviiri
@BanjoFox Hey, it's among the more popular indie systems! :P
 
Adam
Adam
@NautArch hello
 
BanjoFox
BanjoFox
@kviiri I WASN'T QUESTIONING THAT! I SAID IT LOOKS FUN! :P
 
NautArch
NautArch
1:50 PM
It appears summer has finally arrived in my area. A couple days now in the mid 80s and sunny with no rain.
 
kviiri
kviiri
@BanjoFox You need to play it already, friend! :P
 
BanjoFox
BanjoFox
@kviiri -- I don't have any, friend(s) to play with :P
 
kviiri
kviiri
Aww :<
 
BanjoFox
BanjoFox
yeah I know.... I (foolishly) moved away from my gaming group (stupid need for jobs/money XD).
what the heck was I thinking :D
 
kviiri
kviiri
You need to create a new one then!
 
BanjoFox
BanjoFox
1:52 PM
There -is- a local gaming Meetup every Friday but I have yet to actually hang out and meet people v.v social fail
 
NautArch
NautArch
@Szega You just beat me by a minute with your answer on that illusion question :)
 
BanjoFox
BanjoFox
sorry... i am in an (extra?) jovial mood this morning... for some reason o.@
 
NautArch
NautArch
@BanjoFox missed it. And it's better received, so phooey on me :P
 
BanjoFox
BanjoFox
haha :D - my original post was "@NautArch -- DOWNVOTE!" but that may not have been taken as the light-hearted joke it was meant to be.
i.e "how dare @Szega answer before you get a chance" :P
 
NautArch
NautArch
@BanjoFox oh, it's fine :) I've got a thick skin and I realized that my answer (due to lack of rule citatons) was downvote possible.
 
BanjoFox
BanjoFox
2:03 PM
@NautArch -- I try not to downvote unless something is really egregious. Plus downvotes on my stuff make me sad (even though they shouldn't). Probably cause I'm too fluffy ;)
 
godskook
godskook
@BanjoFox Fluffiness is treasonous, citizen. Please report for summary execution
 
NautArch
NautArch
@BanjoFox I hear you. It's not so much the downvote I dislike, it's not knowing why.
 
BanjoFox
BanjoFox
@NautArch that too, but as we've seen knowing why leads to more drama ;)
@godskook - I;ll have you know that I've only got 2 Treason stars right now :p
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@NautArch You didn't have that back in early July? We did.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@nitsua60 Not really. There was a lot of rain up here, but I don't really remember a stretch where I had to water my garden :)
but I could easily be misremembering. I'm just amazed the summer is nearly over :(
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
2:11 PM
National Geographic Travel Photographer of the Year winners have been chosen, and are incredible (Sergio Velasco)… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/892726581831106564
Tweeted by pourmecoffee on August 2, 2017 at 12:39 PM
 
NautArch
NautArch
@doppelgreener wow
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
(esp. the alt-text)
 
NautArch
NautArch
Feels like after yesterday's GM-dependent decisions conversation here there are now several questions that are...GM/situation dependent.
 
BanjoFox
BanjoFox
yep.... and now I have to quit the Internet. @doppelgreener wins.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
2:28 PM
@BanjoFox you should see some of the stuff BESW's posted: chat.stackexchange.com/…
Today In Your Fantasy Volcanoes Aren't Terrifying Enough ^
 
BanjoFox
BanjoFox
That reminds me... I need to search/check for a tag idea that I had.
 
nwp
nwp
What is the policy on RTFHB questions? Is answering it ok?
 
BanjoFox
BanjoFox
@nwp -- I would post some polite version of RTFHB and reference the page(s) if you know what they are :)
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
15
Q: What Do We Do With "Read The Book To Me" Questions?

mxyzplkSomewhat of a related question to Why Are Our 5e Questions Terrible? - questions from people who haven't read the book yet, and want us to do it for them. This is a little different from the discussion in Should a question be judged on its level of "expertise"? because these questions don't even...

discussion
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
Consider if you had that question and someone told you "read the book."
You'd probably roll your eyes and go "gee, thanks, hadn't thought of that one."
So, make it helpful and point out where & what they ought to read and what they should be looking out for, or whatever's applicable.
 
kviiri
kviiri
2:39 PM
@nwp Lack of research is not a close reason, so answering honestly is fine. But RTFHB is not a good answer in itself.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
right, you can answer and downvote. ^
we will sometimes close those questions as unclear. "How does {specific class feature} work?" would be closed as unclear with comments of "Have you actually read the book on it yet? Where have you gotten stuck?"
 
kviiri
kviiri
Also, <dnd-specific-advice>when considering downvoting a question that's explicitly answered in one of the rulebooks, eg. the question I answered about flanking a few days back, remember that players shouldn't be expected to know about DMG content to ask rules questions.</dnd-specific-advice>
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@kviiri nor might they understand how to parse what's there, because understanding D&D is hard.
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@nwp My personal line of it is whether the thing the person needs is there on the page they're clearly looking at. In that case I'll roll my eyes and downvote. (IIRC there was a warlock-spell slot-short rest question the other day that fit that description.) But the moment you have to pull things from two separate pages I give the benefit of the doubt to the querent, partly out of annoyance that in 40 years TSR/WotC has barely gotten any better at explaining their game.
 
kviiri
kviiri
@doppelgreener must... resist... urge... to start... a DnD 5e rant again... :P
@nitsua60 This is pretty much what I do, too.
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
2:44 PM
11 hours ago, by nitsua60
@Miniman I hate to be an armchair quarterback, but the one semi-rant I've got about TSR/WotC is that you need to already understand the game to make sense of the game's manuals. And I'd say that goes all the way back to 0e!
 
nwp
nwp
I feel like it is one of those and I'm just rep-whoring [insert politically correct term here].
 
kviiri
kviiri
@BanjoFox Hey, I got a good reason for you to learn to play Apocalypse World: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/apocalypse-world
@BanjoFox Look at that! The last AW question is from half a year ago!
We need more people to ask questions so I can answer them!
 
BanjoFox
BanjoFox
@kviiri -- LOL... I never said I needed reasons ;)
 
kviiri
kviiri
@BanjoFox This is the reason you don't need, but the reason I deserve.
...or wait, is that how it goes?
 
BanjoFox
BanjoFox
@kviiri -- I could say the same thing about Paranoia ;)
 
kviiri
kviiri
2:45 PM
@BanjoFox I think you'd be right to say that :)
It saddens me how many good systems don't get almost any attention on this site. Then again, yesterday's analogy about the doctor's office might apply here too :P
 
Adam
Adam
@nitsua60 That's because at some point there was a choice to be made: are the manuals instruction books that teach you to play the game, or reference books that you use to look up rules? Somebody chose reference books, and cursed new people to learn from books that were not really made to teach things as their primary purpose.
2
 
BanjoFox
BanjoFox
@kviiri -- I will probably grab a copy of ApocWorld after I finish reading all my new Paranoia stuff.
 
kviiri
kviiri
@BanjoFox The second edition is going to be released for sale in a few days I think.
@BanjoFox However, the difference between 1e and 2e isn't major: see rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/88507/…
Actually I should maybe retouch my answer now that I've got more experience with 2e
I got a few ideas on how I could improve that.
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@nwp Don't forget, though, that the real audience for the answer isn't the person asking the question.
268
Q: We're working on a new stat to help convey the reach of your posts here

JaydlesWe've got a new statistic on the shiny new Profile Page Prototype. It's not perfect yet. And we did a pretty crap job of explaining what it's all about! Let's talk. What you do here isn't just about solving one person's problem. A while back, a user contacted us about his friend's account. His...

discussion profile-page feedback people-reached
(esp. at "You gotta get this to get us.")
Even if they're a help vampire, a well-written answer still advances the Stack mission: a well-sorted DB of expert Q&A.
 
BanjoFox
BanjoFox
@kviiri -- It will probably take me a few more days to fishing reading YCBBB Remix
I also got my preview copy of Monarchies of Mau to read so I am not without things to do ;)
 
godskook
godskook
3:13 PM
@nitsua60 I did not have that problem when learning 3.5 off the SRD, but then, I'm an outlier, so....
 
kviiri
kviiri
I don't really think I've had problems learning the rules themselves from DnD books, either.
On the other hand, stuff like "when to call perception checks" or "how much should I tell my players about the monsters" and "should I allow them to search for traps between every square" etc, those kinds of things always were tough for me.
Time to hit the road for now.
 
nwp
nwp
Poor road. What did it ever do to you?
 
kviiri
kviiri
@nwp Really hurt my eyes at least!
It rained earlier today, now it's sunny, the road is wet and impossible to look at because it's all SHINYYY like a wealthy woman's neck.
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
3:34 PM
@godskook Glad to hear it--I should admit, not having played 3.x or 4, that perhaps those manuals are amazing and I'm just unlucky in that regard. But I do have plenty of sympathy for anyone who comes to these cold and says "oh, I didn't realize this thing two hundred pages away had this impact on this decision I made at chargen."
 
godskook
godskook
@nitsua60 Well, I mean, that's a bit of the nature of any system where decisions matter and that there's lots of decisions to be had, isn't it?
 
kviiri
kviiri
Could be nostalgia speaking, but IIRC 4e had generally reasonably clear rules (because powers were quite self-contained).
 
nwp
nwp
@nitsua60 I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. Making avoidable mistakes due to not knowing the rules is something a new adventurer would do and sort of models real life character progression.
 
kviiri
kviiri
@nwp But new adventurers played by rules-nerda are exempt because?
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@nwp Right, but should fighting with two weapons be that hard to present in 5e?
 
nwp
nwp
3:39 PM
@kviiri Rule nerds tend to start at lvl 3 or 5 :P
@nitsua60 No, there are a few things they could have done better.
But overall it works decently well I think. Coming from someone who just started with 5e and didn't play before.
 
kviiri
kviiri
I actively enjoy it when the game lets a PC be smarter that the player!
 
godskook
godskook
3:55 PM
@nitsua60 you seem to have migrated from "must have pre-knowledge to understand the manuals" to "must read the full manual to understand the manual", and those are qualitatively different accusations.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@BESW for this question you answered I had considered suggesting giving the character Shoot +1 with a stunt for +3 to shoot exclusively with one gun, on the justification you can use one gun really well and others pretty averagely. But it's also as you mentioned, if the player never actually has to use another gun, that's functionally no different to having Shoot +4.
 
godskook
godskook
@doppelgreener Is "limited ammo" a thing in Fate?
like....as a stunt-bite or w/e
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@godskook sorta. there's no mechanics about ammo unless you introduce them yourself, however narrative fiction would say "no, you cannot shoot twenty people with your six-shot revolver and no spare ammo" if anyone cares about that level of fidelity, and people can have an aspect such as "out of ammo" put on themselves.
 
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