TRPG General Chat

Magician

4:04 AM

The entire conversation around this tweet is great, though the tweet itself is not quite the right format for TtCb

California Ghost Town for Sale: $225,000. I want to do a Kickstarter for this because reasons. http://is.gd/nhk0gJ

Tweeted by wilw on November 14, 2013 at 2:41 AM

This would work, I think:

@cmpriest @wilw @scalzi murder pie ghosts of the frozen secret nerd city

Tweeted by warrenellis on November 14, 2013 at 2:57 AM in reply to cmpriest

"Tweets to Campaign By is in awe".

BESW

That's pretty amazing.

Tweets to Campaign By will bring the plates and forks if you bring the proton packs.

So, what if there's a Tweet that would be perfect to Campaign By except that it's just describing an 1874 adventure novel?

"Radcliffe and her fearless vampire hunting companions, Merry Bones the Irishman, Grey Jack the faithful old servant..."

Tweeted by sydneypadua on November 13, 2013 at 4:45 PM

"..Doctor Magnus Szegeli, and Polly Bird, one of the vampire's victims, mount an expedition to find the legendary vampire city of Selene."

Tweeted by sydneypadua on November 13, 2013 at 4:45 PM

(It also counts as Real Person Fanfic, because the heroin is this Radcliffe.)

Magician

4:28 AM

Its fair game, I think. I haven't even heard of this novel, and concise description of its premise does spark imagination.

BESW

Duly queued.

(It appears to be one of his books that isn't available for free online. Huh.)

Magician

5:09 AM

Time for another random thought of the day! There's been a shift towards mechanics-light narrative-driven games as of late, or at least it seems that way. Fate, *W, etc. They appear to be better introductory systems, with a lower barrier to entry. They also seem like a better choice for some of us, as we've come to realize complicated pseudo-realistic mechanics are not fun for us. But!

We had to play and enjoy those complicated pseudo-relistic games to understand what was important for us, which part we actually enjoyed. Similarly, we had to observer the rules take the game in one direction, over and over, to realize where we'd like to take it instead. Hard rules provide confidence for GM and replace necessity for trust in GM's competence with trust in rules' competence.

BESW

@Magician I'll argue that last point vehemently.

Magician

@BESW One moment, still unfolding :)

Fate & the like are more mature systems in that way, as they require participants to come together and cooperate in order to function properly. Which is not to say destructive players couldn't ruin D&D, of course they did. But you could try and deal with that in-game (a wrong solution, but a solution nonetheless). For players who don't know what they want or how to deal with others wanting different things, hard rules can provide a common ground.

*W is great in the hands of an experienced GM who can feel the pace of the game and react accordingly. In the hands of an inexperienced and unsure GM, it's a game where SUDDENLY BEARS is the response to any failed check.

To summarize this random thought, hard rules (I should define this term, eh) provide a structure on which we can rely. This structure, if done right, is a very good way to learn RPGs. Throwing new players into rules-light games deprives them of this experience.

BESW

I'd argue that "hard rules" create the illusion of structure, which can be very comforting but is ultimately not actually there.

Magician

@BESW If I show up to a D&D game with people I don't know, I can hope that by adhering to rules we'll play the same game. Of course, D&D doesn't exist, yadda yadda, but the hope is there. I know what I'm in for, and how my actions will affect the outcome, ideally. I trust in the rules. In a *W game, where GM is the ultimate arbiter of everything that happens, rules are guidelines. I have to trust the GM unconditionally, in order to enjoy it.

BESW

And I certainly don't think hard rule systems, or the illusion of structure they provide, are bad.

But D&D is pretty explicit that the GM is still in a position to make arbitrary rules violations at his whim.

He's just encouraged to pretend he's not.

Magician

5:26 AM

True. But D&D GM has those rules in front of him/her, and makes the decision to violate them. *W GM has "something interesting happens if PCs roll 6-, pick a move from the list".

BESW

I have an idea ruminating about this for some time. Let me see if I can marshal it up.

Magician

Structure provided by hard rules (and you can have a less illusionary structure than the one D&D provides, if you actually focus on it) acts like training wheels in this regard. Hence, something that may be useful: an intro RPG that has these explicit, restrictive structure-wheels, which you remove one by one once you feel comfortable and want to branch out.

BESW

This question got me thinking about the role of the unknown outcome in RPGs.

Ellesedil

Hey all, when answering a question, particularly about story/content, is it ok to quote passages from the book that may be the size of a large paragraph?

BESW

9

Q: What constitutes copyright infringement?

Looking at the question on teleportation, there is this answer that appears to quote a body of text from PHB3. I don't actually own that book, so I couldn't check it out. But that got me thinking about copying text from sources that are not freely available online. How much quotation from publish...

@Magician My concept is, roughly, that the roll of dice and the role of the GM in determining outcomes without dice (through NPC motivation, through fudging, through keeping secrets, etc) are ultimately similar.

In a true "rules hard" game, everyone at the table would be able to predict the outcome of every action with total accuracy unless there is a hidden variable--and they would know all possible variables, so they'd know which variable was hidden.

In most games, the obvious hidden variable is the outcome of the dice.

You know that the dice are an important variable in predicting an outcome, but you can't know what that variable will turn out to be until you roll them.

Another hidden variable might be the monster's armor class, or whether it can ignore a certain kind of damage, or if the king is secretly a mind flayer.

Ellesedil

5:38 AM

@BESW That's nice that there's a meta question about it, but the accepted answer seems more concerned about stopping plagiarism, but doesn't actually define it. In a research paper, if I quote a source and attribute that quote, it is not considered plagiarism, so is that sufficient for SE?

BESW

(Protip: the king is always secretly a mindflayer until proven otherwise.)

3

@Ellesedil My takeaway from the meta thread is that there is no solid answer.

Use your own language as much as possible, cite your sources whether you're quoting or paraphrasing, and cross your fingers.

Oh, and snip out any bits of the quote that aren't necessary to the point you're bringing up. [...] is your friend.

Ellesedil

Ok, that's about what I'm about to do.

Essentially posting an answer to my own question: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/30023/…

BESW

No harm in that.

Ellesedil

I'm not cool enough to know how to make the question format thingie appear.

Magician

@BESW There is always a mindflayer. If there is no mindflayer, the mindflayer is you.

BESW

5:41 AM

@Ellesedil Paste it, with http://, in its own line.

Ellesedil

A

h

Magician

@BESW I wouldn't call dice a hidden variable, just a variable. You know the range of values they can take, and in a hard rules system you know what each of those outcomes means (even if the exact boundary such as AC is unknown). You can assess the probabilities and know what to expect. You either hit or you miss. In a rules-light game, "something interesting" or "something good" happens instead. You could miss, or maybe SUDDENLY BEAR.

Alex P

@Magician I think you're describing DW, which is not as tight as the other Apocalypse Engine games, just by its nature.

Because DW is the game of "You fail, HARD MOVE!"

BESW

@AlexP It's not alone. Do: Temple of the Flying Pilgrims gives the same latitude to the Troublemakers whenever they have the opportunity.

Alex P

Sagas or Monsterhearts of whatever are not structured in the same way.

Magician

5:46 AM

@AlexP Of the whole bunch, I've run tremulus, and it's definitely the case there. Seems to be the foundation of the engine. The GM picks a move out of a list.

BESW

In Do, when your pilgrims gets in trouble, your "trouble" stat tells how you get into trouble, but what kind of trouble you get into is up to the Troublemakers.

Alex P

@Magician You need to define hard rules. Arguably AW's moves are hard rules, in the sense that there's a tight coupling between mechanics and fiction, and often there are specific effects spelled out.

BESW

If you get into trouble by talking too softly, maybe you ask directions and the guy can't hear you so you're sent to the wrong destination and get lost. Or maybe you're thrown in prison on suspicion of conspiracy against the crown because your mumbling was misheard.

Alex P

My wife essentially started on Burning Wheel with me. I don't think the stake-setting part of making a roll was ever an issue for her. It was pretty trivial even from the GM's perspective. The parts she gets hung up on are the hard rules that are there to force certain stuff.

To me, the biggest difference is that you can have a canned D&D dungeon that tells the GM what to do for each scene. It's kinda doing the pacing for you. Most lighter games could come with awesome pregens with a cool situation or whatever, but they're so much more in the "play to find out what happens" design space that they can't really tell you "do this scene next, then this one, then this one."

BESW

@AlexP I know you're not a Fate Guy, but I'd be interested in your take on the DFRPG pre-made modules.

Alex P

5:54 AM

@BESW Never read 'em?

BESW

[unsurprised]

Alex P

My general take on modules is "BURN IT WITH FIRE!"

BESW

Ditto. I used modules for almost all of my two-year 4e campaign, but I heavily revised and reskinned them to my own purposes.

Alex P

I like BW's The Sword. Because it's very focused and compact. It starts you at the end of the dungeon arguing about the loot. It is one scene and everything that follows from it is open-ended.

BESW

But the DFRPG modules, well. I ran one of them with a couple friends and it was awesome.

It was a combination of "run it like this" and "play to find out what happens."

Magician

5:58 AM

@AlexP Ok, I'll give it a shot. Hard rules are a function that, given current state of the game, provides the outcome with no further interpretation required. I'm using a power on the orc, I roll against it's AC, it takes damage and is pushed 2 squares. Breaking down an iron-plated door is Strength check DC 20. GM's job is to match the game state to an appropriate rule.

BESW

I readily admit my ignorance about these things, but isn't a game like AW just flipping the uncertainty?

In D&D, the player makes a choice and the GM uses rules to determine the outcome.

That choice is from a limited set of options--attack (what kind?), move (how?), cast a spell (which?), and so on.

Magician

Soft rules are a function that typically requires more involvement from GM during input, as the game state is more loosely defined. They result in questions: can I use this aspect to gain a bonus? Can I use Hack & Slash on the dragon? Furthermore, they often provide a soft result that's also open to GM's interpretation: I tried to climb the dragon and failed, oops. Now what?

BESW

I'm hearing that in AW the GM gets "make a choice from a list" options and my response is "just like a D&D player, right?"

Magician

@BESW Sort of. Both GMs and players have lists of moves.

BESW

So AW is putting the GM in more of a player-choice situation, and that gives the player more of the experience of the GM.

Because one of the things about being a GM is not knowing what a player will do until he does it.

AW's SUDDENLY BEARS is counterpointed by D&D's SUDDENLY PORTABLE HOLE INTO THE BAG OF HOLDING.

Alex P

6:04 AM

We're playing Sagas. I challenge you to holmgang. There is a move for that. I do middling and have to choose some effect from a list. Maybe I'm wounded, for example.

That is all directly fiction -> mechanics -> fiction.

Or I do poorly and I will die unless someone helps me to recover.

Magician

It's pretty big on "fiction first", though, so actually looking at the list and picking an option is wrong. You decide what to do and pick the move that best fits it. In that way, moves are inspirations and hints. The entire game can be summarised as 6- is GM's choice, 7-9 is success with complication, 10+ is success. That's the entirety of the rules.

DW's Defy Danger is just such a universal move, a catch-all for "I do something". The reason it's called Defy Danger is because if there's no danger, there's no need to roll it.

BESW

@AlexP Other party member: "What were you thinking, challenging BESW to holmgang? He's killed fifteen men! You stop your own bleeding, you idiot."

Magician

Most other moves are there to show players and GM they can do certain things, and provide suggestions for fitting outcomes, to lessen the cognitive load. So Read Person lets you ask GM 2 or 3 questions, depending on your roll, about the character you're talking to.

(other moves let you do things better, or allow you to do unique things).

BESW

Read Person is an especially useful skill when interacting with Lydia the Tattooed Lady.

Ellesedil

0

A: What is the established story/lore of Infernals and their realm in the IKRPG?

In the Core Rules of the revised IKRPG, infernals are mentioned twice and Infernalism is mentioned once. The information on Infernals/Infernalism takes up less than a page and pretty much leaves almost everything up to the imagination. In fact, most of the information on Infernals actually focuse...

Someone let me know if that is acceptable?

Alex P

6:12 AM

@BESW I tell them that Hólmgangu-BESW will deprive us all of our best stuff if left unchallenged. I had to stand up to him, for the sake of all! But deep in my heart I know I was a fool to let him goad me into holmgang.

Ellesedil

I quote a little over half a page in a 360 page book.

If that's too much quoting, I'll delete it and revise it tomorrow.

Or... later today as the case may be.

Magician

@BESW Hrm. Don't think so. Players operate within defined fiction. GM creates fiction. As surprising as shoving a bag of holding into a portable hole is, it's a known outcome of using these two items, and it requires PCs owning them. Someone somewhere wrote it down, and we've read it. It's a hard rule. In DW, it could absolutely be the outcome of putting two items together and rolling poorly, but that would be GM's call creating this fact.

BESW

@Ellesedil It would be better if you could summarize the key points in your own words, but I don't think anyone's going to come hunting for you.

Alex P

@Ellesedil I feel like you could pare it down a bit just for readability's sake. The different sections do seem to repeat each other a bit.

Ellesedil

Yeah, I agree with both of you to an extent.

BESW

6:16 AM

@AlexP Less "pare" and more "bushwhack." [grin]

Ellesedil

I guess I'll just reference the page numbers and remove the quotes.

BESW

For example:

Alex P

So, my experience: I showed my wife two pages of BW rules and we talked about the philosophy a bit and she could GM the core game fine after that. The false starts we experienced had much more to do with characterization and situation than anything related to the rules or pacing.

I can't imagine anyone who hasn't at least read over the books repeatedly and obsessively GMing D&D with great success.

BESW

> Infernals are "mysterious but vastly powerful entities that dwell beyond Caen and Urcaen" who gather mortal souls for unknown purposes. They are said to be highly skilled in arcane arts, to the extent that it is believed Orgoth's dark gods may have been exceptionally powerful infernals.

That's the first quoted paragraph with the important infernal stuff plucked out and paraphrased.

Magician

@AlexP Interesting. I'm theorizing about the importance of hard rules as learning experience, of course, as I've gone through it, and no longer present a clean slate for other games.

BESW

6:24 AM

@Magician Every person I've ever introduced to RPGs, I used 3.5 or 4e because that's what I had at hand.

And almost every time, I found that their first instincts were to simply narrate actions and assume the system could accommodate them.

So the first session or two had a lot of "Sorry, you can only do that once per encounter" and "That's a spell you don't know yet, but you can learn it next level," and "Actually, the elves in this setting don't act like that."

Magician

@BESW System-imposed limitations on the story and setting-imposed limitations on the story. I'm writing about this!

BESW

@Magician Of course you are.

Ellesedil

@BESW Thanks. Do you mind if I use that? I like that phrasing better than what I just edited it to, and it conveys the very information I had already summarized.

BESW

@Ellesedil Sure.

It's kind of a thing I do.

Anyway, my takeaway from years of introducing RPGs to people through "hard rules" systems is that I really want to try using Fate to do it and see what that's like.

Magician

@BESW I bounce ideas off of you guys all the time. Does it show? :P

But now I have to go.

@BESW Let me know how it goes!

BESW

6:31 AM

@Magician Naaaah. [spoingk] Durnit, my Sarcasm Limiter broke.

Magician

@BESW Too many things have been bouncing off of it.

Ellesedil

I need to head out too. Thanks for the feedback guys.

BESW

ttfn

@Magician I've got at least five people who would like to do a Fate session, some of whom have 3.5 experience, some of whom have no RPG experience at all, but nobody's got the time.

user61230

6:57 AM

It's still there, and I'm dying laughing. "Why didn't I earn the Populist badger?"

user61230

Also hi!

BESW

Hey.

in The Bridge, 17 hours ago, by Yuki

@Arperum Yeah, I'm literally two rep away from the bronze pokemon-xy badge.

user61230

How goes the battle?

user61230

YES.

user61230

PERFECT.

BESW

7:22 AM

@Problematic, @AvnerShahar-Kashtan [wave]

Avner Shahar-Kashtan

@BESW I think you're being unnecessarily narrow here. How about everyone is secretly a mindflayer until proven otherwise?

G'morning, @BESW.

BESW

@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Mindflayers are usually only people in positions of trust/authority.

Or, usually only people in positions of trust/authority are mindflayers?

Personally, I was always more fond of using disguised yuan-ti purebloods.

Avner Shahar-Kashtan

What better way to inflitrate human society than by replacing it, individually and in bulk, with a critical mass of undercover agents?

BESW

Not very efficient.

Avner Shahar-Kashtan

I'm sorry, it seems that lately my response to everything is exaggeration ad absurdum.

BESW

7:27 AM

Heh.

Sven B.

9:34 AM

Hullo.

doppelgreener

10:26 AM

@AvnerShahar-Kashtan New theory: the Changelings started killing and replacing people to infiltrate kingdoms one by one long ago. Since they've acted so perfectly and are disorganised, they often have no idea who's a changeling. The Changelings have, in fact, since replaced every single person in society, but none of them realise it.

Avner Shahar-Kashtan

10:58 AM

@JonathanHobbs There's a line from a Tom Lehrer show that I have on a CD where he says that in th early 50's he worked at the Los Alamos National Security lab "as a spy. In fact, every single person working there at the time was a spy".

Also, I'm pretty sure I ran into a similar concept somewhere, probably in a sci-fi theme rather than fantasy, but I can't for the life of me remember where.

Inbar Rose

11:31 AM

I just found the most hilarious video on YouTube. (youtu.be/5Krz-dyD-UQ) It is a joke on Game of Thrones. Wow - haven't laughed so hard in a while.

BESW

11:46 AM

@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Sounds like something from the Martian Chronicles.

Avner Shahar-Kashtan

@BESW I think it was more Lem than Bradbury.

BESW

Fair enough. I'm positive Asimov has done it too, but each of them has a very different approach to the same concept.

Inbar Rose

No response to the funny video?

BESW

@InbarRose I haven't had a chance to watch it, and since I'm not a GoT watcher I'd only get the jokes from cultural osmosis anyway.

Surprise! The 50th starts NOW! The Night Of The Doctor on iPlayer in less than an hour. Speak to no one till you've see it! RUN!

Tweeted by bbcdoctorwho on November 14, 2013 at 11:18 AM

Inbar Rose

@BESW It's not about GOT at all. It juse uses the videos for a fake voice over.

Avner Shahar-Kashtan

11:54 AM

@BESW So, 2-3 hours until it's on youtube and downloadable, huh? Fine, I'll watch it this evening.

Kethryweryn

@InbarRose Oh god. THIS VIDEO IS PERFECT.

Avner Shahar-Kashtan

It's nice, I'm managing to summon up excitement for the 50th anniversary special, despite Moffat's doing his utmost during Season 7 to make me not care.

Inbar Rose

@Kethryweryn :)

BESW

@AvnerShahar-Kashtan I'm having trouble getting over my sadness that they didn't even ask any of the surviving Old Who actors to be part of it.

Avner Shahar-Kashtan

@BESW I vaguely remember something Davison getting interviewed about that.

BESW

11:56 AM

@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Peter Davison, Fifth Doctor.

All the surviving actors --including Tom Baker who refused to do the 25th-- have said they would've said "yes" if asked.

Avner Shahar-Kashtan

Well, I guess this is part of Moffat's great hubris stuck-up-his-own-assness.

BESW

@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Not that many of the Who producers have ever been without that quality.

Kethryweryn

I love Moffat forever for "Blink", but really didn't like what he did with the show overall when he took over...

BESW

RTD's last story finished was basically "I was awesome and you should hate the next guy," and Turner famously mandated that a companion be an airline attendant because he thought it would get him free tickets.

@Kethryweryn Moffat's got great ideas, but not enough of them to fill out multiple seasons... and like any other creative person, he's better off when there's someone around to tell him which ideas stink.

So now he's in a rut that I call "Why Is The Hot Girl Strange?" and he's milked multiple single-episode stories as well as every season story arc out of that concept.

It's got minor variants like "Why Is The Cute Little Girl Strange?" and "Why Is The Creepy Old Woman Strange?" but overall he's becoming increasingly one-note. It's not a bad plot, but he needs to get more variety.

Kethryweryn

Exactly.

Avner Shahar-Kashtan

12:06 PM

Well put

BESW

Basically, he spent several decades as a fanboy writing Doctor Who fan fiction. When he got the chance to actually write scripts, he used his best ideas: Curse of Fatal Death, Blink, and so forth.

By the time he got control of the show, he was running out of the good ideas.

Avner Shahar-Kashtan

The Second Album Syndrome.

BESW

12:22 PM

Pretty much, yes.

Used up all the best ideas, hasn't had time to get more, but has less editorial oversight because of the previous successes.

Sven B.

12:37 PM

Hmmm... Not entirely sure where I'm going with this paladin of mine...

BESW

@SvenB. A rather odd Guns 'n' Roses riff?

Sven B.

@BESW Ha ha, no, just second guessing myself on the build I chose for my PF character.

Not sure why, but he feels a bit generic.

Kethryweryn

12:58 PM

Why would the build make you feel he's generic ? Generic in term of game mechanics ? Or do you feel he's a bit bland (and therefore maybe more a problem of characterization ?)

wax eagle

still lolling at satyr as a bard implement.

BESW

@waxeagle I once had some satyr bards, but they played pan pipes.

(They were heralds of the Vermin Lord.)

wax eagle

makes sense to me

Sven B.

@Kethryweryn Generic in term of game mechanic... As in, not many options available on the field.

BESW

Paladins are rough, without variants.

Sven B.

1:04 PM

I'm beginning to realize that. As far as characterization goes, I think he's okay, if a bit two-dimensional.

BESW

They need too many stats, spread too thin.

Sven B.

Well, at least PF removed the need for a high WIS.

Kethryweryn

I won't really be able to help you there. Last time I played a paladin was on 3.0... a long time ago. And there weren't many interesting options at the time. Bad multiclassing overall, an ok class but not that great. I don't really know what they changed in 3.5 or PF.

Sven B.

PF made the spells CHA based instead of WIS.

BESW

Do PF pallies get turn undead?

Because divine metamagic is awesome for spicing up a build.

Sven B.

1:08 PM

Yes, using Lay on Hands uses

BESW

Does your group allow 3.5 materials?

Inbar Rose

Have you gotten level 6 yet? (leadership feat + paladin mount) ?

You can start making a small cult?

Magician

Night of the Doctor is up on youtube, in case it's still of interest.

(probably has been for an hour)

Sven B.

I'm level 5. And chose the sacred weapon instead of the steed.

BESW

I rather liked the "Divine Counterspell" variant from Complete Mage.

(Instead of turning undead, you get to counterspell as if using dispel magic.)

Sven B.

1:11 PM

Will have to check with my GM about what supplements are allowed.

Paizo's Advanced Player's Guide and Ultimate Magic are in use, that's for sure

BESW

Throw in the Curse Breaker variant (remove curse/break enchantment instead of remove disease and its improvements), and you've got a decent start at an "evil wizard smiter" build.

But those are 3.5 Complete Mage. I dunno PF variants at all.

And there's a Dragon Mag variant that replaced detect evil with discern lies.

Sven B.

Interesting...

BESW

(it adds detect evil to your spell list, so you aren't in the cold.)

Inbar Rose

There are many things you can switch your turn undead usages into.

BESW

Now, please excuse me for about 8 minutes while I go watch Night of the Doctor to see why Twitter is blowing up.

Inbar Rose

1:17 PM

I think there are also variants to what you can do with your smite as well

BESW

(I hear rumors of McGann, and that cannot wait.)

Sven B.

I quite like the idea of being an undead hunter, even though I have no idea how many, if any, undead we might run into

BESW

@SvenB. You can sacrifice lay on hands, turn undead, and remove disease to get the ranger's favored enemy feature with a restricted list.

Also: OMG OMG OMG. Night of the Doctor is about the best move Moffat could have possibly made.

Phil

?

BESW

In under 7 minutes, he legitimized the entire Dark Years canon.

Kethryweryn

1:26 PM

Please shut up, as I won't be able to watch it 'til I leave work in five hours. :p

Phil

Comment goes so far over my head I didn't even feel it :os

@Kethryweryn Oops, sorry

BESW

Nash does a decent job explaining why it's a big deal, so I'll just leave that link and stop gushing.

Metool

mirrors on the ceiling

Kethryweryn

Haha no problem.

Metool

pink champagne on ice

[steps out]

BESW

1:27 PM

I'll just say, the "leaked" picture of a Time Lady? Not a Time Lady. So. Much. Better. Than. That.

Aaron

Good Morning

Sven B.

@BESW I'll have to run that past my GM, but that looks promising. But I guess I'm stuck with whatever feats I already picked.

BESW

Oh, and go watch The Brain of Morbius. I'll be hunting it down again.

Sven B.

No relation with Marvel's Morbius the Living Vampire, I'll surmise?

BESW

Nope.

Morbius is a Fourth Doctor villain, an outlaw Time Lord mad scientist, kind of a Gallifreyan Doctor Frankenstein/Nazi War Criminal mashup.

The Doctor encountered him in exile on a remote planet, where he was nothing but a brain in a jar and was forcing his minions to build him a new body. He wanted the Fourth Doctor's head.

There are a number of reasons the story was perfect to re-visit for this short, but to go into them would be spoilery if you haven't seen the short yet.

....it IS still imminently Moffat-y, because it also messes with established canon in deep irrevocable ways.

But it makes sense so far and can be reconciled, so I'm not mad. River Song's true nature? That I'm mad about, and will stay mad.

Sven B.

1:46 PM

Not too happy about the whole "human baby in a TARDIS = Time Lord" ?

BESW

@SvenB. [tantrum]

a) Not all Gallifreyans are Time Lords; becoming a Time Lord is an artificial process reserved for only a handful of privileged Gallifreyans.

b) Not all Time Lords had to be Gallifreyans; there was a plan for the Seventh Doctor's companion Ace to become the first human Time Lord by passing the appropriate tests to qualify for the process.

Joshua Aslan Smith

this is a good newbie question

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Q: Are old versions of D&D compatible with new ones?

Some 30 years ago I used to play Dungeons and Dragons: red 'Basic', blue 'Expert', black 'Master' edition box sets, etc. I still have them and was recently playing with my son, who loved them. I want to get him his own sets, and thought the D&D essentials Monster Vault looked good. My question is...

dungeons-and-dragons

BESW

c) Perhaps most importantly, regeneration is bio-technology. It is not something inherent to Gallifreyans, it's something you get as part of the technological perks of being a Time Lord.

Joshua Aslan Smith

doctor doctor

BESW

@JoshuaAslanSmith It is!

Joshua Aslan Smith

1:51 PM

thats the kinda question that will really drive traffic and search hits to rpg.se

BESW

Rassilon invented regeneration, and used it as part of his plan to establish Time Lord society. It's repeatedly referred to as a thing which Time Lord tech can manipulate, extending the number of regenerations a person has, removing them, and even exchanging them.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@besw what is river song's true nature?

BESW

6 mins ago, by Sven B.

Not too happy about the whole "human baby in a TARDIS = Time Lord" ?

Aaron

@BESW Wait River is a time lord?!?!?!

BESW

River Song was conceived in the TARDIS, and apparently that gives her "Time Lord DNA."

My face smashed straight through both palms and my desk.

Joshua Aslan Smith

1:55 PM

yeah thats one for the warpath right there

further reason why new who can't compare to old who

BESW

I mean, it's not like Old Who was especially internally consistent itself.

Joshua Aslan Smith

whenever you saw timelord society in old who you completely got the feeling that access to all of the tech was somethign closely regulated (as if it was nuclear arms)

Aaron

Flails about falling of his ball seat.

Joshua Aslan Smith

and the doctor is just someone who faked through the system long enough to then run away from it all

but they even made him president for a time after all of that (or whatever the actual title is)

@BESW true, but tonally its a lot more classic sci-fi

its hard to describe why new who pushes me away so much

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