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2:01 PM
But... River Song was
a) the daughter of Amy and Rory, conceived in the TARDIS which makes her
b) a Time Lord who
c) got kidnapped and was secretly best friends with her parents when they all went to high school as part of
d) an evil plot for her to assassinate the Doctor, who de-programmed her and later
e) married her, while all the time having already seen her
f) tragic-sacrifice death which now makes no sense because she was a Time Lord and
g) subsequent uploading to a computer heaven until
h) a Victorian lizard woman from the centre of the earth used a psychic conference call to
Is it becoming clear why I think she's a blatant Mary Sue?
 
@BESW she did um use up all her mythical "regeneration energy"
 
@BESW Mary Sue?
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith The shoe fits
 
@waxeagle I have issues with that, too.
 
2:05 PM
Every character I make turns out as a failed Mary Sue
 
I once had a very vivid dream where some kind of demon told River Song how she died in front of the Doctor. Very gratifying in some kind of horrible way.
 
@Kethryweryn ...does your dream fairy do work for hire?
 
I was very ill at the time, so I'd say : probably, I just have to find which meds I took. :D
 
@Zachiel One of my favorite fanfiction writers ever had a young female original character in one of her Harry Potter stories. In order to keep the girl from being considered a Mary Sue, the very first thing she did was date Dursley.
 
2:09 PM
lol
 
@BESW Hahahaha that is awesome.
 
@BESW pffft a character of mine won't be able to do that. I want identification with my character. I want my character to be the mean by which I get all what I can't get in life. U_U
 
Oh, River is totally a Mary Sue, and an annoyingly smug one at that.
 
I present Dinovember. The way more fun, less guilt inducing, alternative to Elf on the Shelf: facebook.com/dinovember
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan And she won't go away.
 
2:12 PM
wow I just went over to the who wikia
man am i glad I stopped watching the show a few seasons ago
whatever the season finale was with Fezs are cool was my last ep
and I was like "ugh is river going to become a main character"
 
@BESW I'm all for companions who get the Doctor a bit flustered and out of his flippancy, like Donna Noble, but River is just so annoyingly with her smug omniscience.
 
Donna is great
probably the best new companion simply because there wasnt a romance angle
 
I have problems with Donna being a bit one-note.
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith She doesn't, luckily, though she shows up way too often. But the season after the fezzes is actually the best of the Matt Smith seasons, IMO.
 
Yeah, the matt smith stuff got too wonky for me
Basically of new who I like season 1 best
so its all down hill
 
2:14 PM
I liked pre-Ten Rose best, because she was quite often an awful person (poor Mickey) but she felt real.
@JoshuaAslanSmith The Ninth Doctor was awesome, even if some of his episodes were really quite poor.
 
yes, I agree the scripts for some of those shows werent great, but as a character he felt much more like the old who doctors
 
I think it's telling that the Tenth Doctor episode widely considered the best of his run is the one without him in it: Blink.
 
Is anyone a surgeon, a medic or an anatomy expert here? It's for some RP trivia, not for home remedies so don't worry.
 
and with the backstory you get about what happens between old who and new who it makes sense for the 9th doctor to be a very moody and brooding character whos jaded but still looking for redemption
 
Hm, this is a bit harsh. There are lots of Tennant's episodes that I liked. Even if Blink is the best. And the thing is : without the Dr means without Martha in this season. Which can only be good.
 
2:19 PM
@Kethryweryn Aye, he had some good episodes.
But Tennant was a bit unpolished--he'll be a much better Doctor in about ten years, I think--and he was often given some really unsalvageable lines and scenarios.
 
That is true. Though he had something that Smith often lacks : charisma.
 
Ten is the most human of the Doctors, and I think that's why a lot of people like him, but it makes him the least Doctor-y of them for me. And he's very two-note: manic or serious.
3
 
Hm, interesting points, and I can only agree with you there.
 
@BESW all the feels
 
Every now and then I'd see him do something and I'd go "THAT! I want to see more of that Tenth Doctor!" But then he'd just go back to Manic Pixie Girl.
 
2:21 PM
hahaha
 
@BESW The most human in more ways than one. ;)
 
the next time my wife criticizes me for liking actual manic pixie girls in fiction, I will now mock her for liking the male version of the manic pixie girl
 
Smith and Eccleston are both able to be very inhuman.
 
Although there was the 8th...
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith Hahaha
 
2:22 PM
Smith is great at being insanely old and tired, but trying to be young. Eccleston is great at looking at humans as if he's not one of them.
 
What did you guys think of Clara ? She was, in my opinion, a clear improvement over the Amy seasons. Still, the explanations about her "strangeness" were disappointing.
 
Clara was handled about as poorly as was possible.
She had potential, but we were studiously trained to not get emotionally involved with her character.
 
Though my favorite female fiction character has nothing to do with manic pixie girls
 
We liked her first appearance, it was great! We loved her. Then she died.
Then she showed up again! But it wasn't the same person, so we had to meet her all over again, and we loved her. Then she died.
 
2:25 PM
Then she showed up again! But it wasn't the same person, and we knew the routine, so we didn't dare love her.
 
whos everyone's favorite companion from all of who?
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith I've got a three-way tie between Ace, Sarah Jane, and Jamie.
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith I'm strictly new who (though we've watched a bit of the first doctor stuff). Of the new companions, I like Rory the best I think.
 
I haven't seen the old doctors, so I can't really judge them.
 
@waxeagle roryroryroryroryroryroryroryrory.
 
2:27 PM
I think its a tie for me between Teagan and Adric
 
I prefered Rose and Dona.
(for the new ones).
 
and original romana thrown in with the other 2
 
@BESW I kinda liked where Micky ended up too...
 
Donna was too abrasive and one-note for me. "I'm not worth anything! I'm a TEMP from CHISWICK!" It got as old as the Cardiff jokes.
@waxeagle Mickey deserved his happy ending(s).
 
@BESW poor guy was sooo abused
 
2:28 PM
Hm. Her persona was annoying as hell yes. Still, she was the best Doctor of the season. :D
 
@Kethryweryn I still say that counts as a regeneration.
Which, given [spoilers], makes Smith the 13th Doctor and Capaldi's Doctor needs some Plot to justify his regeneration.
 
hah
doctordonna
 
I really really hope they use the 50th or the Christmas Special to bring back Gallifrey and un-do the LGTW to some extent.
You've plumbed the post-war angst for all its worth, and the Doctor's just not as interesting an intergalactic hobo if he doesn't have a home full of stuck-up prisses to counterpoint him.
 
@BESW and IIRC they've got a bit of setup for that to happen anyways, they've already almost brought them back once
 
What we know of the Special positions it perfectly to undo the Time War.
 
2:34 PM
and there was that sense that something wasn't quite right with knowing looks and whatnots
 
@RedRiderX That'd be the Spoiler.
 
@BESW Oh oops. >.>
 
Hi there
 
Clara and the Doctor are inside his own timeline, and The Spoiler means that they're able to use that to pierce the lock on the LGTW's events, so they're uniquely positioned to change those events.
@Trajan Yawp.
 
@BESW Oooh okay.
 
2:38 PM
anyone have any experience with dungeon world
 
I do
Even if in a play by forum only
 
what's the matter @JoshuaAslanSmith?
 
we may or may not be running the next season of encounters in dungeon world
 
Is there any stats for spartan weapons in dnd?
 
2:39 PM
So Im looking for a good free primer
heavy spear?
javalin
heavy shield
short sword or scimitar for the leaf blades they used
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith what are you looking for, exactly? Have you seen the GM guide?
 
I have seen nothing
I will be a player
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith Ok. I was just curious if there were any specific weapons for them. Thanks.
 
@aaron, nope and frankly the way those weapons are modelled in the game youll probably be suboptimal
one handed spears dont have reach
shiedls dont add much other than ac
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith mh ok so I think you only need to take a look at the booklets and the base moves sheet, just to know what your possibilities are.
 
2:43 PM
@JoshuaAslanSmith REF too in 4e
 
yes that would be good is there w website I should go to for that?
true
but I meant I one of the things I dislike about dnd in general is the way weapons are moddled
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith dungeon-world.com
 
oh is it free on there?
 
As an aside, I'm talking more about Doctor Who and The Night of the Doctor in RPG.SE chat and Arqade than I am in SF&F chat.
 
oh 10 dollars isnt bad for the pdf on drivethur
ive been afraid of the SF&F se
 
2:44 PM
@JoshuaAslanSmith Yeah, DW is completely free.
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith Be afraid. Be very afraid.
 
getting involved in the army of the dead and why dont the eagles fly to mount doom questions showed me there were a lot of opinionated people on there who haven't even bothered to read all of the aprop. source materials (i.e. the simarillion)
2
 
@BESW What's so frightening about SF&F.se ?
 
@SvenB. @JoshuaAslanSmith's experience above is pretty representational.
 
who basically viewed LOTR as a D&D type setting vs the very classical myth logic it works by
 
2:46 PM
@JoshuaAslanSmith At least the content is completely free: github.com/Sagelt/Dungeon-World
 
Thing is, science fiction and fantasy questions aren't really appropriate for the SE format.
There's no "real problem" to be answered, every question except "please help me figure out what this book is I remember reading twenty years ago" is based on idle curiosity.
 
they could be if they are less opinionated and more asking for clarification about what did or did not happen in the books. Maybe even asking about the works themselves vs. the plot where you could bring in scholarly sources
haha that is the most popular of questions
 
Right.
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith tactical strike team >> unarmed aerial assault against heavily guarded area...but whatevs....
2
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith And the majority of the site sees them as a necessary evil, rather than the only kind of question their site can truly handle in the spirit of SE.
 
2:48 PM
hahaha
@waxeagle exactly the point is to destroy the ring in secret so that saurons actual power is never directed against those seeking to destroy it
 
Also, their scope is really poorly defined.
 
Makes sense...
 
pretty sure that despite never seeing his power manifested in a D&D type way, that he had some serious mojo to toss around had the ring been flown in on eagles
 
You regularly get people arguing that some particular kids' franchise shouldn't be on topic, or that magic realism isn't really fantasy.
 
hahaha
I wonder if anyone has flamed SF&F.SE with the penultimate flame question
 
2:50 PM
I'll bet that the word 'verisimilitude' is used a lot.
 
Seriously, there was a massive debate over whether Life of Pi was on topic.
Because the carnivorous island might or might not have been a hallucination or a lie, they argue, it's not fantasy.
 
@BESW wat
Wow.
 
Which, um, drops out Alice in Wonderland, Gulliver's Travels, the film version of Wizard of Oz...
Oh, but one guy said Gulliver's Travels isn't fantasy either, because it's an allegory.
 
Huh.
 
So there goes The Phantom Tollbooth and most of Ray Bradbury.
 
2:52 PM
What about other philosophical tales, like Micromegas ?
 
Do we have a not SF&F books SE?
 
I'm usually of the "which shelf would you usually find it in the bookstore" classification fans.
There was a literature.SE, but it never made it past beta.
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Ah okay.
 
But I'm also of the "if there's doubt, let it stay" persuasion.
 
2:54 PM
Hmmm I could see why that would happen
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan Sure.
 
@BESW: I don't think the SE format can't work with the more subjective sort of answers that SF&F works with. It's a different form of Q&A, with less objective answers, but still a Q&A of sort.
@JoshuaAslanSmith Which one, the wings/no-wings?
 
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan who would win in Sci-fi vs. fantasy / magic vs. technology
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith Ah, that will be closed quickly as Shark vs. Gorilla question.
 
Someone busting on my beloved sff.se?
 
2:58 PM
@AvnerShahar-Kashtan You mean Shark vs Bear, surely?
 
Jeff Atwood on August 15, 2011

Who would win in a fight between a Gorilla and a Shark?

OK, maybe you’re thinking that’s a ridiculous question. Perhaps it is. But various forms of this question get asked all the time. Consider this now-ancient Stack Overflow question titled Python v. Perl:

Okay, so I’m finally making the jump into scripting languages and I have decided to focus on either Python or Perl. The problem is: I don’t know which to cut my teeth on.

Most of my programming experience is in C, Java, and C++. There’s no specific task I would be learning Python/Perl for, other that possibly applying it to my dev work to make life easier in general. …

 
@zachiel hmmm cant find any of the classes or core rules on their site
the codex seems only to be monsters
 
go to download extra material, character sheets. (oh how is the section called)
 
ah
yeah just saw that
 
I'm glad I missed some of the 93 messages written while I was away, considering the SPOILERS in them. :D
 
3:07 PM
haha
this reminds me of the article I read about the son of the guy who wrote up the tardis trying to get ownership over the idea
and people freaking out in the comments because he referred to doctor who as a children's program
 
Best kind of children's program.
OH MY GOD NIGHT OF THE DOCTOR OH MY GOD OH MY GOD OH MY GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH *pop*
 
Hahaha.
 
0
Q: What's better for incorrect content in a post?

wraith808I was reviewing an edit (by an anonymous person), that they removed a statement from a post, saying that this was incorrect. I rejected the edit, and left the comment that they should downvote and leave a comment rather than wholesale removing content. Then I thought that might be a good clarif...

 
basically there was nerd rage over it
and its like
doctor started out as a children's educational program
for history
 
And SCIENCE!
The Daleks were a lesson about radioactive fallout.
 
3:18 PM
lol
science not so much
true
 
(Also Nazis in tin cans.)
 
Actually, for the first couple seasons the stories alternated consistently: go back in time on Earth for history for one story, then forward in time or into space for science for the next story.
 
What I mean to say is taht the history was probably more accurate than the science
 
And the historicals were utterly without science fiction elements except that the recurring characters were from a different time and place.
 
3:22 PM
though both were probably not very accurate
 
The historicals were generally most accurate when they were re-using sets from BBC historical dramas.
 
I love The Gunslingers, but it's got very little to do with the events leading up to the OK Corral shootout except that it happened in that time and place with some people with those names.
(The Doctor goes into town to get a tooth pulled, and is mistaken for Doc Holliday.)
 
lol
nice
@zachiel thanks again I definitely am liking the look of dungeon world
 
Lots of padding, but Hartnell is having so much fun.
 
3:25 PM
indeed
lol at the dungeon world fighter alignment option: good) defend those weaker than you, neutral) defeat a worthy opponent, evil) kill a helpless or surrendered enemy
 
And although many people find the Ballad of the Last Chance Saloon grating and interminable, I like it.
 
my first thought was: " Why not all 3?"
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith It'ss a nice game but I find it really strange at times. Every thing you do could go catastrofically bad, while if you don't do anything you can be sure it goes bad.
@JoshuaAslanSmith you can do all three, you're just choosing which one gives you 1xp per session if you do it.
 
also their appropriate of the USMC Rifle creed swapping in weapon for rifle was great
ah gotcha
because I basically play jaded, pramatic idealists looking for redemption in every game that I play
and all of those apply to that archetype
wow apparently there is a witcher tabletop RPG, though sadly only in polish
 
"Well the Moff gets a free pass from me for the rest of his tenure on the show anyway" #gallifreybase (yep, pretty much, yes)
I wouldn't go that far. He still hasn't dug his way out the River Song hole.
 
3:37 PM
english speakers (and imperial unit users, you fools), isn't it weird that pit trap area is 10-ft-square ? isn't it roughly a square whose each side is 3 feet long ? Like 25% of a square for tractical fights ?
 
(And the Ponds' method of leaving the show is just lazy.)
 
or am I totally misunderstanding feet-square ?
 
@Trajan Yes, but only in D&D terms.
In D&D, they mean 10'x10'.
 
that's just silly
 
@Trajan 10 foot square means 100 square feet
 
3:38 PM
@Trajan ...yes. Yes, it is.
 
@waxeagle aaaaah ok
 
But since it's one of the few things they're consistent about...
 
and how do you know if "10-ft-square" is a square of 10 square feet or a square with 10 feet long sides ?
 
@Trajan because everything in D&D (at least past a certain point in it's history) is in 5ft squares
10 ft^2 doesn't fit into any increment of 5' squares
 
One Square = 5 Feet, and Squares are the unit of measure from 3.0 on, at least.
 
3:41 PM
@waxeagle yes, that what bugged me
 
One day, they'll discover meters. And common will be chinese. But we're not there yet. :D
 
(Although both 3.0 and 3.5 still insist on talking in terms of Feet, they mean Squares.)
 
@Kethryweryn you can easily and with little loss convert D&D to 2m squares
 
chinese use the metric system ?
 
3:41 PM
@waxeagle I'm just trolling.
 
I know :)
 
french version of D&D and PF use meters
 
In fact, the rule is that if you need to draw a circle, it's actually a composite of all the Squares whose area is filled no less than half by the circle.
 
do they convert squares to meters or is it 1:2?
 
it's a conversion
a short-range spell is 7.5m + 1.5 * spell caster level
IIRC
 
3:43 PM
@Trajan what did they do for 4e?
 
Yes.
 
dunno, never played
 
4e doesn't use feet, but squares.
 
@Kethryweryn right, but the squares have a stated feet equivalency
 
But the Squares are still 5 feet to an edge.
Well... ish.
4e geometry is Lovecraftian.
 
3:44 PM
(not that it matters for the game, the squares could just as easily be any length)
 
Not sure then. One of my PH is in french, I'll check if they mention it.
 
Within any given 5'x5' space, 4e geometry is Euclidean.
 
@BESW and going diagonal "cost" two square every two squares.
 
But the instant you consider an area or distance greater than 5', space begins to warp.
 
squares become circles...circles become...odd
 
3:45 PM
then the sleeper awakens
and you fight him
an fulfill your epic destiny
 
The value of pi actually changes as soon as the circle's diameter exceeds 5'. It becomes a whole number.
 
Hahaha.
 
Cthulu!
 
@waxeagle well, hardly, ranged weapons' range are expressed in distance, not in squares
 
Darn didn't comment fast enough.
 
3:46 PM
@Trajan not in 4e...
 
oh.
 
Is there an english memory trick you can teach people so they know how to spell Cthulhu ?
 
everything except overland travel uses squares in 4e
 
Aches always in front of you ? (H in front of U) ?
 
@Kethryweryn yes. memory.
 
3:47 PM
@Kethryweryn spell check :)
 
However, racial heights and features are still expressed in Imperial units.
 
@BESW true
 
@Kethryweryn we have 1.5 meters squares in Italian D&D. And 1.5-meter-steps.
 
@Kethryweryn It's okay, Lovecraft didn't spell it consistently either.
It's like Chinese or Arabic--the necessary symbols don't exist in standard Western-alphabet systems.
 
Well, that's the thing when you transcript from ancient manuscripts of forgotten languages.
Exactly.
 
3:49 PM
Ia, ia! Orthography fhtagn!
 
That's why I never spell out exotic NPC's names. Always great fun.
 
Still, it makes my eyes HURT. Oh good, hurt, h before u, just like Cthulhu.
 
Kuh-thool-hoo.
Or possibly Kut-hool-hoo.
 
@besw fluff heights, actual size descriptions based on type (medium large etc) are still squares
 
Always pronounced it Ktool-hoo
 
3:52 PM
I say it as choo-thu-loo because its sillier that way
 
Lovecraft was known to sometimes pronounce the last syllable with an "L," so...
 
Haha. The sound "choo" means "cute" (chou) in french. I like it. Choo-thu-loo.
 
Mon petit choufleuri [cit.]
 
 
@Kethryweryn heh, Cthulhu is very cute, specially when he's a plushie...
 
3:56 PM
I'm crying inside. While having a manic laugh. Everything's fine. Cute Cthulhu's here.
 
 
Oh gods. What did we DO ?
 
@Kethryweryn We have looked into an abyss, and the abyss has offered us cookies.
3
 
4:00 PM
I always heard Ktulu (sounding like Lulu)
 
@BESW Hahaha.
 
(All my pictures thus far have been courtesy Ursula Vernon.)
 
@BESW I like this one
 
as per our early square discussion
 
The grammar seems non-euclidean aswell. :D
 
4:05 PM
is a site dedicated to the mashup of cthulu mythos and internet memes ala icanhascheezburger
 
With another H. Just like in HURT. (I'm trying).
Love the Innsmouth family photo.
 
tru story bro
 
....this is not Cthulhu. That is an anthropomorphic star-nosed mole.
 
Hahaha.
 
The star-nosed mole is one of the few monsters introduced in the Psionics Handbook for AD&D2.
 
4:11 PM
this made me laugh
 
It eats Psi points.
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith (I'm guessing these were the foods they had in their fridge at the time the urge to experiment struck them.)
@SvenB. It's invisible aswell no ? Reminds me of something.
 
the description of the second study and the leech's being anthropomorphized is funny
 
@Kethryweryn I don't think it was invisible, but being a tiny burrowing critter, able to eat away at your psi points from a small distance, it could be a real nuisance.
 
obvious fodder for killer gms
you walk through a tunnel, the walls of which are honeycombed with them
 
4:26 PM
Yeah. Psi-moles were ridiculous on many accounts.
 
Psi-mole sounds like an SI unit.
 
Not entirely sure what it would be used for, though. Pressure times quantity... ?
 
psi-mole (n): SI unit of mental energy. One psi-mole is roughly the energy expended during a politician's apology.
 
LOL
 
expended by whom ?
 
4:44 PM
user image
5
 
best nose game evar.
 
@BESW LOL aswell.
 
@BESW Most hardcore game of "got you nose" ever.
I've spent far too long reading SF&F.SE DW questions...
So is Time Lord/Lady a title or race?
All I had previously thought has been thrown into question.
 
@RedRiderX More a title than a race.
 
@RedRiderX no, Galifreyan is a race. Time Lord is a position w/in that race
(with hints that being a TL is not strictly a Galifreyan role)
 
4:55 PM
Oh okay.
 
Gallifreyans who meet certain requirements (tests, breeding, etc) get inducted into Time Lord society.
 
@waxeagle Yeah, that's where I started to wonder.
What with Ace and all...
 
The induction includes biotechnological upgrades, including regeneration.
@RedRiderX So far as we know, no non-Gallifreyan on screen has ever been made a Time Lord (ignoring River Song, because... River Song).
 
IIRC the doctor's grand-daughter is galifreyan but not a TL, but I've not watched those episodes to actually know
 
But yes, Ace was planned to become a Time Lord before the show got cancelled.
@waxeagle I think Lungbarrow had her as another throwback, similar to the Doctor being a throwback to The Other?
Also, it's strongly implied that Time Lords can regenerate to be other races.
 
4:57 PM
I just confused me a bit when I thought I head Time Lords described as Galifreyan.
Like how Silurians and Humans are both Earthling.
 
Most if not all Time Lords are Gallifreyan, but many Gallifreyans are not Time Lords.
Consider "Time Lord" to be a kind of super-elitist Mensa association with mad awesome perks.
 
Alright I think I've got it straight now.
 
Leela married a non-Time-Lord Gallifreyan, I think.
[double-checks]
 
It just seemed a little strange that a race's name is based on planet of origin alone.
Though I guess it can happen.
 
Ah, my bad. Leela married a Time Lord and lived among them but didn't seem to get inducted herself.
It was significant because Gallifreyans were sterile, and she bore the first child on Gallifrey in millennia.
 
5:02 PM
@RedRiderX it seems to me that it's a fairly common convention for humans naming alien races
for whatever reason we regularly envision monoracial planets.
 
We do it for ourselves, too. African, European, etc.
 
5:20 PM
Very true.
And it seems like most of the time that's how it works out.
One dominant race on a planet.
 
So the only difference is that everyone on the planet identifies with the planet rather than a part of it.
 
5:34 PM
...I think I've been looping Ballad of the Last Chance Saloon for about three hours.
Nope, only two.
Tweets to Campaign By has seen this campaign module before.
This is how the world ends, not with a bang, but with a meticulously-scheduled series of events designed by revenge-minded octopuses.
At first Tweets to Campaign By assumed the spectacles had secret alien glyphs on the lenses, but then we realized that was silly.
What caused all that racket and pistol shooting Wednesday night? Somebody lost a pair of spectacles, but no personal damage resulted. LA1885
 

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