The Reading Room

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verbose

12:01 AM

@Tsundoku oh, interesting. I found it really fun to read. Of course for me Vasco da Gama was someone we spent time studying in school, so I felt a connection to the story. And maybe that has to do with the translations we read? I haven't compared the Penguin translation to the Oxford one in detail but the Oxford one is well done on the whole.

bobble

I'm not sure the tag excerpt for meter is accurate to how it is used:

> Questions about determining and representing the meter of a poem, a practice called scansion.

While some questions with the tag are simply asking for a meter/scansion (example, example), some are about meter as a concept (example, example). Should the latter sort of question be retagged, or should the excerpt be updated, or something else?

(All questions taken from near the top of the "Newest Questions" page for meter, to represent current usage)

verbose

@Tsundoku Sir Walter Raleigh wrote The History of the World while in prison awaiting execution.

bobble

@bobble Is this a topic that should be discussed on meta and not just chat?

title and/or character-analysis? literature.stackexchange.com/questions/2149/why-is-gatsby-great

... bobble promises no more tag questions today

verbose

@bobble both, I think

verbose

12:39 AM

@bobble well, meter is messed up anyway. It makes no sense to count feet and then express the result in meters. Like, iambic dimeter is two feet, which is 1.28 feet short of an actual meter.

I'm sad I missed saying hi to @Sciborg when they were here earlier today.

bobble

If you're comfortable going to a different chatroom, Sciborg + Graylocke + North + I chat in The Grove on a semi-regular basis :)

verbose

Thanks! Who's Graylocke?

bobble

Another friend, from Puzzling. They're part of our D&D group.

verbose

ah.

bobble

If you want to read the D&D sessions, they're here: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/118089/…

verbose

12:55 AM

I'ven't ever played D&D. My late husband used to, occasionally. Our dream was to go to Atlanta for Labor Day weekend so he could attend Dragoncon and I'd attend the underground equivalent, Dungeoncon. Never happened, alas.

bobble

Did he have a problem showing up on time?

verbose

@bobble No, he was typically very punctual. I'm Mr Late, he's Late Mr.

5 hours later…

verbose

5:38 AM

Just came across this meta question and was thinking perhaps we need a performance tag.

6 hours later…

Rand al'Thor

11:38 AM

@verbose I was thinking about your proposed rewording of the proposed audience-specific texts for the recommendation close reason. (I've been giving it a few days before editing it into my answer, in case more tweaks come up on that new meta post.)

> Such questions lack definitive answers, making them unsuitable for our site.

Do we want to say this? Many literary-analysis questions lack definitive answers: an interpretation can be given, and backed up with evidence from the text, but often it can't be proved more correct than any other interpretation.

I deliberately avoided phrases like "can accept many subjectively-correct answers", which could apply to some analysis questions too, in the texts explaining why recommendation questions are off-topic.

Alex

Having a definitive answer and being able to demonstrate a definitive answer are two different things. The former is what determines questions’ suitability.

List questions are easier than analysis questions with regard to the latter, but the underlying concept is the same.

2 hours later…

Tsundoku

1:38 PM

I would avoid saying "Such questions lack definitive answers, making them unsuitable for our site." for the same reasons that Rand al'Thor has given. We have "open-ended" in the suggested usage guidance but not yet in the suggested post-owner guidance.

@verbose And there are many other meanings of meter.

@verbose I don't think it has to do with the translation, or at least not primarily. It's mainly the content: the Portuguese being the greatest warriors ever, the sense of entitlement to the subjugation of other peoples, the Christians-good-everyone-else-bad point of view, the mixture of ancient gods and Christianity, the neverending lists of Portuguese heroes: these would be bearable in isolation, but the combination of all these was just too much for me.

bobble

2:23 PM

@verbose that would be because I bumped it for a tag edit :)

2 hours later…

Tsundoku

4:12 PM

@Bookworm The OP deleted the Maupassant question, even though that was totally unnecessary. It had two reopen votes when it was deleted.

Bookworm

Q: Identification of a short story by Maupassant

In a short story by Maupassant, a young man is upset by the past infidelities of his mistress, a rather paradoxical situation since he came much later after the infidelities (and somehow benefited himself from them). I would like to identify that short story.

bobble

@Tsundoku undelete votes requested?

Tsundoku

4:35 PM

You can try, but since the question is probably no longer in any queues, I don't know whether that will work.

Alex

5:02 PM

@Tsundoku I believe users with deleting privileges can see recent posts with pending delete/undelete votes from the Review dashboard, even though there is no specific queue.

Mithical

Mostly correct - it's in the delete tab in the 10k tools, not review

Tsundoku

5:53 PM

Ah, right. The question now has two undelete votes.

bobble

6:13 PM

Should the meta-comments for the Klipspringer question (that is, ones discussing why it should be closed, helping the author edit it into an acceptable form, and discussing why it should be reopened) be deleted now that the question has been edited & reopened? It shall they be left for posterity?

Alex

7:03 PM

@Mithical The link to Tools is on the Review page though, no?

Rand al'Thor

@bobble I deleted the ones that were just about its closure and reopening, and left the ones that had some information about the actual question.

@Tsundoku Sorted.

@Alex Yes, but I'd wager most reviewers never bother to click there.

bobble

I was checking it more often but it's a pretty boring page for such a small site

"Top-voted questions, you say? I know those, I edited/commented/voted on them"

"Recent close reasons? Uh, I saw all of these already"

Rand al'Thor

:-D

There's always something fun in the "recent close reasons" section on SFF.

bobble

Hey, it's Puzzling's Gareth!

What brings you here?

Rand al'Thor

> I’m voting to close this question because it's an obsession with nipples
> I'm voting to close this question because what?
> I'm voting to close this question as unclear what OP is smoking.

bobble

7:15 PM

@Randal'Thor what was the OP smoking?

Mithical

7:33 PM

@Randal'Thor Sargeant Shadwell would like to know your location

Rand al'Thor

:-D

Tsundoku

7:47 PM

@bobble In a few months I will be ready to dump 95 questions. That might spice things up ;-)

bobble

s/I a/In a

Rand al'Thor

Siaina?

Tsundoku

sed

Rand al'Thor

I know what she sed ;-)

Tsundoku

OK, let's not get upsed.

@Bookworm Still not sure about those infidelities.

Rand al'Thor

7:57 PM

I tried searching for some likely keywords in Project Gutenberg's collection of Maupassant short stories (even though it includes some from Richepin etc.)

By the way, I have a few more Effi Briest questions coming up.

Tsundoku

Good. Those are not yet verboten.

Alex

@Randal'Thor See how many sentences you can construct that say “Most [category of users] never do [appropriate action].”

bobble

@Randal'Thor, a meta-meta reference for here?

Rand al'Thor

@Alex Most Alexes never do pedantfests.

In fact, I only know one that does.

Tsundoku

@bobble "Bobble, come (look at this question)"

Alex

8:05 PM

@Randal'Thor I’m not entirely sure what a pedantfest is, but it certainly sounds like fun.

bobble

@Tsundoku why?

Tsundoku

@bobble "a few more Effi Briest questions coming up"

Rand al'Thor

@Tsundoku An easy one to begin with, then something which might require a bit more in-depth understanding of the characters/story, then something which probably has a lot of significance through the book.

@Tsundoku But why bobble?

Tsundoku

Because she asked whether that was a [meta-meta-]reference.

Rand al'Thor

@bobble Thanks, added.

(how many per-site metas are you following?)

bobble

8:10 PM

Puzzling's, Literature's, and RPG's consistently; other sites whenever I happen to pass by. My browser autocompletes "scifi" to the meta site and not main, so I end up passing through the meta whenever I want to check out main-site.

Bookworm

8:33 PM

Q: What are the "torch dance" and "garter dance", in 19th-century Germany?

From Theodor Fontane's Effi Briest, which I'm reading online, during the wedding of Effi and Innstetten in Chapter V: The dancing had continued till three o'clock, with the effect that Briest, who had been gradually talking himself into the highest pitch of champagne excitement, had made various...