The Reading Room

b_jonas

22:00

Do the votes on the nominations even matter? This isn't an election.

Mithrandir

@b_jonas They do.

Gilles

@Benjamin There are only 380 questions on the site. If we had an agreement on how to tag them, we could still make a concerted effort and retag them.

Mithrandir

Last time I was at a protem election the top 3 by votes got elected

I came in 4th

Gilles

But we aren't going to get an agreement on changing the current scheme.

DForck42

@b_jonas it's probably a complicated formula that they put into Robert's brain

Mithrandir

22:01

After the execution, he walked across the fire-blacked grounds of the Imperial Palace toward a tall blue building. As he stepped across the threshold, a slave ran up to him and knelt, holding up a blue sash.
“Stand up and give your message,” the emperor ordered the unfortunate individual.
“Y-Your Mo-Most Imperial Graceful Highness has a message from the Superior Person of Yalden, a-about the Registry of the Enaste Vale Of Life T-Tun-Tuning, sir,” the slave stammered.
The emperor nodded. He had been expecting a message from the SPY, but the acronym was ridiculous this time. He shook his head.

Gilles

Our opinion is a minority and SE is against us, so why fight it? It isn't going to happen.

Zizouz212

@b_jonas If it helps, I had +15/-8 on mine, and came in like 5th or 6th. Somehow, I got it.

b_jonas

@Gilles You can still add new tags to questions if you figure out good ones, without removing the title tags.

HDE 226868

@b_jonas In general, CMs follow a lot of what the community thinks, but it generally isn't totally based on the voting.

b_jonas

I don't think title tags make sense.

Zizouz212

22:03

The tagging model here is kind of confusing

Gilles

@b_jonas Neither do I, but the people voting on meta and reviewing edits do.

DForck42

i honestly don't use tags to find particular movies on m&tv, but it feels weird to me to NOT tag something with the title of the work

2

Mithrandir

(BTW, opinions on the two large text chunks are welcome)

Zizouz212

I don't know. I think the book title and author can form part of the five tags, but every question needs to have tags in the model that @Gilles had before. Otherwise, you're not searching by conflict, or by topic, but just on the book.

Benjamin

@Gilles Well, why don't you do those things?

Skooba

22:05

To me a good tagging would look like this Language>Author>Work>Topic1>Topic2

Zizouz212

Language?

Benjamin

@Skooba this makes some sense.

Zizouz212

We have multi-language questions too?

Benjamin

@Zizouz212 Yes.

Zizouz212

o_O

Mithrandir

22:06

ANyway, night fellas

Skooba

@Zizouz212 as in russian-literature

Zizouz212

Good evening!

So questions about literature, where the literature in question is in a different language?

Skooba

tags should match what we can have "experts in"

steelersquirrel

@Skooba for mod!!!! +1 :)

Zizouz212

So I can ask a question about a French book for instance?

DForck42

22:07

@Skooba hmm...

@Zizouz212 yes

Skooba

we can have experts for a language group, author, or particular work.

DForck42

we're not limited to English-only works

Zizouz212

Some part of me likes that, the other finds that troubling.

HDE 226868

@Zizouz212 Why?

Zizouz212

I'm not exactly sure.

Skooba

22:07

@Zizouz212 yes but questions for this site do have to be written in english

Riker

belated night @mith

DForck42

@Zizouz212 movies isnt' limited to English-only or American only, that'd be a bit silly

Skooba

@steelersquirrel I'm in last place :(

Benjamin

If no one minds, I will try to implement that and see where we get.

Skooba

I ve got go guys

Riker

22:08

see ya

Zizouz212

@Skooba Oh no, I'm not doubting that. I just find it different. Something is raising my eyebrow, I just still don't know what the something is to understand it.

steelersquirrel

@Skooba Awwww. I'm sorry :'(

Skooba

have a nice [insert time period designation]

b_jonas

@Zizouz212: why would we need a site about just English literature? We already have Sci Fi for that.

Skooba

@b_jonas we do?

Riker

22:09

@steelersquirrel wot you vote for your internet spouse but not your son?

DForck42

@b_jonas is scifi limited to English works?

Riker

shame on you :P

@DForck42 no it is not

b_jonas

@DForck42 No, backwards. English literature is limited to Sci Fi and Fantasy.

Gilles

@Benjamin I vote on meta. I can see that I'm in the minority.

user61230

@DForck42 it's time for a battle to the death

b_jonas

22:10

So I can ask all my English literature questions there.

Zizouz212

@b_jonas It's something that I hadn't expected. And what do you mean Sci Fi will take all English literature. Surely I wouldn't be able to ask about a non-fiction book, would I?

steelersquirrel

@Riker Wut? I voted for you right when I saw your nomination, silly! Skooba is not my internet spouse, we just have several illegitimate internet children together ;)

Riker

ah ok

@steelersquirrel uhh insert lenny here there's just too many mods for me to actually lenny

Ankit Sharma

@b_jonas SFF is limited gnerwise not language. I have seen and even asked non english stiff question there

b_jonas

@AnkitSharma Yes, of course. I'm not saying that all Sci Fi is English. DVK has been asking questions about Strugatskys' sci-fi books. (Though I would like to see more people who can answer Stanislaw Lem questions on Sci Fi.)

Don't try to get it backwards. I said all the English literature is sci fi.

Sci Fi in the broad sense of that site that includes Lord of the Rings.

Or at least that's the impression I get from my bookshelf.

steelersquirrel

22:14

@Riker This is why I could never be a mod. I just can't hurt people's feelings. I could never hammer someone and I have developed great friendships with so many people here, that I am afraid that I would have a really hard time being impartial, I totally admit that.

Ankit Sharma

@b_jonas k

b_jonas

@Emrakul I think in this case you get to choose the weapon. Shall we bring the lirpas, or would you prefer a fistfight?

Ankit Sharma

@steelersquirrel if you are partial with almost every human being that means you are impartial :P

b_jonas

@AnkitSharma Yes, but if he impartially can't hammer anyone, then he wouldn't make a good moderator.

Mithrandir

@b_jonas *she

...Still here lurking o_o

My parents went up and left me with my laptop. Bad move :P

Ankit Sharma

22:17

@b_jonas yeah she is too nice to be a mod

b_jonas

But luckily people can do a lot of useful contributions even without being a mod.

Mithrandir

Yep.

Review tag wiki edits, people!

steelersquirrel

I will be the first to admit that I would be heartbroken if I had to hammer one of my chat buddies. I will be the first to admit that I would not make a good moderator because of that. I'm not a hard ass like Ankit and Napoleon ;)

2

b_jonas

And if there's a chance of people who could contribute very usefully turning away because such and such people are chosen to become a moderator, like it's happened on Sci Fi with at least three contributors, then the SE overlords have to choose mods VERY carefully, and I don't envy their situation.

Mithrandir

Ack, the Math Overflow accepted answer style o_o

Ankit Sharma

22:22

@steelersquirrel I hope hard ass in good way :D

Mithrandir

The whole thing is green

Riker

@steelersquirrel :(

but i understand

steelersquirrel

I'm all for giving people a second chance. Rand has never done anything to me and has always been more than helpful. He has probably helped me more than anyone else with just helping me to understand the SE system. I know that there's animosity towards him because of the past. I just hope that everyone remembers that he was the one who was really promoting this site and has been active ever since.

5

b_jonas

Hmm. Should I ask a Stanislaw Lem question, hoping that we find the Lem sci-fi experts here that we couldn't find on Sci Fi SE?

@steelersquirrel I would like Rand as a moderator like I said, but I don't think it's a valid argument about that that he's promoted this site.

steelersquirrel

@AnkitSharma Hehehe! I was just kidding, silly! Well, Napoleon is still a hard ass ;) (that just means strict, btw) ;)

Ankit Sharma

22:25

I know

Anyway time to leave

Bye good night/day/evening/noon/whatever

steelersquirrel

@b_jonas What do you mean? Are you saying that he hasn't promoted the site?

Hamlet

@Nathaniel I would be honored, thank you!

Riker

night ankit!

b_jonas

@steelersquirrel He did promote the site, but I don't think that matters for whether he'd be a good moderator or not.

4

Zizouz212

Eek.

steelersquirrel

22:26

@b_jonas Why? It shows that he cares for the site and it's success.

2

Riker

that is part but not all of being a mod

but I do think rand has the rest covered

Mithrandir

@Zizouz212 ?

b_jonas

@steelersquirrel Yes, perhaps.

Zizouz212

The way I look at it (as a moderator myself), is that promoting the site shows passion for the subject, guaranteeing that the moderator will strive to learn more and contribute as much as he/she can. It may not demonstrate capability or proficiency in moderation, but it tells you about the person.

2

Riker

@Mithrandir I think he means "damnit I'm just here to have a fun time why did I come in the middle of serious discussion"

Zizouz212

22:28

@Mithrandir Sorry, I was loudly expressing my "eek" to an email I got :(

steelersquirrel

I know that it's just part of being a mod. I was just pointing out that he was instrumental in getting the site up and running.

@Zizouz212 Exactly! Well said :)

b_jonas

I think I'll risk a Stanislaw Lem question. What's the worst that could happen?

Zizouz212

Why thank you :)

Gilles

@b_jonas Actually, no. Their attitude is pretty consistently “take it or leave it”. Which makes sense from a purely economic standpoint: in practice there's never enough people who leave to make it a problem.

Mithrandir

> Rand also referred many, many people to the Area 51 proposal, without which the site would most likely have not launched in the first place

b_jonas

22:29

@Gilles I see.

Mithrandir

Anyway, really have to go to bed now. Adios. Vote for me :D. *waves*

b_jonas

@Mithrandir And? Why does that matter? I'm still not entirely convinced that it's a good idea that the site got launched. If a hypothetical person X promoted the new Lit proposal without any vision of how it would differ from the old Lit site, then the Lit site got relaunched, but it failed in exactly the same ways as the old Lit site, that wouldn't make X a good moderator.

What matters I think is that Rand has an idea of how the new Lit site should work, and has moderator experience on Sci Fi to know how to steer the site in the right direction. That's what makes a good moderator.

2

Zizouz212

@Riker Nah, got an email from uToronto.

Riker

ah

about acceptance into it?

assuming tha'ts uni of toronto

Mithrandir

Riker

22:34

lol

steelersquirrel

Hehehe!

user61230

@b_jonas LIRPA FIGHT.

Zizouz212

@Riker Nah. From Victoria College. They're reminding me to complete my application.

Riker

ahh okay

Zizouz212

Ah this is so scary

b_jonas

22:37

@Mithrandir It's still not an election.

Mithrandir

@b_jonas I know

But there is voting

steelersquirrel

He can still use campaign flyers ;)

Rand al'Thor

@Zizouz212 Is it a competition? Because I thought I claimed that honour :-P

Riker

hmmmmm

lack-of-knowledge fight!

Zizouz212

lol

Riker

22:39

@Zizouz212 @Randal'Thor what color hat does mario have

Zizouz212

I didn't even know what to say there.

Riker

last person to answer wins

Nathaniel

@Hamlet Here you go!

Zizouz212

You do realize that neither of us would answer right?

Gilles

@b_jonas The old Lit site was shut down because its traffic was too low. Since then the rules have changed and it wouldn't have been shut down under the current rules.

Riker

22:40

@Zizouz212 yeah that's the point

Rand al'Thor

@Riker Who's Mario?

Zizouz212

And in video games, I played old ones, just not the xbox or whatchawhatever.

steelersquirrel

@Randal'Thor You're here!!! Yay!! Did you see that ~~some fool~~ Skooba nominated me for mod? Seriously, like not even a joke! ;)

Riker

ok @Zizouz212 rand wins

Zizouz212

But green hat.

I remember that.

:)

Riker

22:41

lel nice try

Zizouz212

Wait what?

I'm googling gooing it.

Riker

no he has a red hat

Zizouz212

Oh. It's red.

Who had the green hat?

I could've sworn he had a green hat

b_jonas

@Gilles But that can't be the only reason, right? If it was, then this site had been relaunched with all the posts of that site as a starting point.

Zizouz212

Oh Luigi.

Mithrandir

22:43

It also died because of bad posts

Rand al'Thor

@Mithrandir No they don't.

Gilles

@b_jonas No, they don't restore old contents when a site is relaunched.

b_jonas

@Gilles Not even if low traffic is the only reason why it got closed? Ok.

Mithrandir

@Randal'Thor proof?

Gilles

@Mithrandir this isn't the ostensible reason, even if it might have contributed

b_jonas

22:43

I wasn't here for the old Lit site.

When exactly did it get closed in first place?

Zizouz212

@Mithrandir I was 5th place, with +15/-8 on OS. I carried the blue diamond on my head.

Mithrandir

Hmm

Okay then

Rand al'Thor

@Mithrandir I'm too ~~lazy~~ busy to go hunting.

Emacs?

Gilles

42

Q: Why did Literature fail?

In the interest of not repeating the same mistakes if another book- or literature-related site is proposed: why did Literature Stack Exchange fail? What should we learn from this? How can we avoid repeating the same mistakes?

Mithrandir

11

Q: Why was the previous Literature SE closed?

What's the history behind the first Literature StackExchange? Why was it closed? How can we avoid the same thing from happening to this one?

discussion

28

Q: How can we make this literature proposal succeed when other literature proposals have failed

Proposal: Literature I recreated the Literature proposal because I would really like a place where I can answer questions about Literature online. However, I'm a little bit worried, because past attempts to create a Literature site have all failed. Can this proposal succeed?

arts

b_jonas

22:45

Ok, but when was the old one closed?

As in, what year and month?

Gilles

@b_jonas my MSE question was posted when the old Lit was closing.

So April 2012.

b_jonas

@Gilles Thanks.

Zizouz212

I find it slightly amusing that the migrated from link leads to Emrakul's nomination

Rand al'Thor

@Zizouz212 Flagged it for ~~mods~~ CMs to clear migration history.

b_jonas

Will see how it fares

My question that is.

Mithrandir

22:48

@Randal'Thor this time won't have to worry about accidentally reopening questions? :)

b_jonas

If it gets closed here, I could repost it to Sci Fi SE, where it's definitely on topic.

Rand al'Thor

@Mithrandir Heh, yes.

I don't think we need a joke tag ...

Also, @b_jonas, doesn't that count as a story-ID question?

b_jonas

@Randal'Thor I've no idea what counts as a story-id question now, after the things people said.

@Randal'Thor Feel free to retag, I don't know how we should use tags on this site really.

I tried to give some tags as a starting point, but I'm not sure about them.

Zizouz212

I have the urge of starting a meta post over whether we can try and design a tagging model, or what kinds of tags we wish to include on almost every question

Rand al'Thor

@Zizouz212 Too broad?

Zizouz212

22:54

Yeah, which is why I only have an urge :P

Mind you, it's also just meta - a place for discussion

Gilles

-12

Q: What should be our standard tags?

What tags should we define for the main site? What tags should we define for meta?

discussion tags

b_jonas

@Rand: if it matters, scifi.stackexchange.com/q/91466/4918 "Reference for the first name of Neville Longbottom's grandmother: Augusta Longbottom" wasn't tagged a story-id question.

Hamlet

@Nathaniel thanks. I'll respond to it in a sec: I'm writing a new question right now.

b_jonas

That and this one both involve combing a few hundred pages of books for a specific detail.

Gilles

less broad, but also closed:

-5

Q: What are the recommended literary term tags?

This question is slightly different from other tag related questions, in that I'm asking which tags the site would benefit from, when viewed from subject matter expertise perspective. On SciFi this was easy - there are really very few generic SME trade terms that could be used universally. Howe...

discussion tags

Zizouz212

22:56

@Gilles I wasn't quite going along there; I have to think about it a little bit

b_jonas

But maybe that's clear only in retrospect, because I thought that name wasn't in the books: scifi.stackexchange.com/q/46203/4918 "Reference for the first name of Sirius Black's mother, known from her portrait: Walburga" isn't named in the books but I had no way of knowing that in advance.

@Gilles I'd like to see your specific proposals on what kind of tags we should use. In the form of as a meta post asking when we should use those kinds of tags.

Bookworm

0

Q: Did Captain Pirx make a joke in base 13?

When Douglas Adams was asked whether he invented this question because six times nine is actually 54, which is 42 when written in base thirteen, he replied: “I may be a sorry case, but I don't write jokes in base 13.” This denial by Douglas Adams is well known among his fans, see eg. “How di...

polish-literature stanislaw-lem

Gilles

4

A: Do we need such broad tags on questions about specific works?

As a counter to Robert's post, I am of the counter argument crowd. Many fans of literature (and dare I say "experts") will be interested in a particular language-of-origin. To me a first time or casual visitor will be interested in russian-literature and use that as a starting point for search...

DForck42

le sigh, make one grumpy response to a meta and it's held in memory forever...

Riker

lol

Mithrandir

23:00

Yes. That's the way it works...

b_jonas

@Gilles Yes, I think language of origin tags would certainly help. I myself categorize the fiction books on my bookshelves primarily in two groups: on the top shelves the ones that were originally written in Hungarian, on the bottom shelves the ones that weren't. But that's not enough. We'd need some sort of tags other than that too.

Gilles

@DForck42 shrug make many grumpy responses on meta and any specific one will be lost in the mass

b_jonas

Whoa... I'm getting upvotes for this question! I didn't expect that.

DForck42

@fi12 internet hug

Riker

@Gilles there comes the pedant with spelling fixes

Mithrandir

23:02

Don't complain. Your post has a higher score by eleven than my nomination :P

Rand al'Thor

@Riker bows

Mithrandir

Wow this place is addicting

It's after 1 am

DForck42

@Mithrandir lol

Riker

rip mith

dead of no sleep

steelersquirrel

I'm outta here. See you guys later :)

Mithrandir

23:09

Niiiight

Zzzz

Riker

night!

Rand al'Thor

Night @steeler!

and @Mith if you're actually off

Mithrandir

... Maybe

I'll drop this off and then go to bed

Riker

lel night

Bookworm

23:27

0

Q: Why does Meursault kill "the Arab" in The Stranger?

In Albert Camus book The Stranger, Meursault kills a character (known only as "the Arab") for no real reason at all. Meursault acknowledges that he doesn't have to kill "the Arab" ("It struck me that all I had to do was to turn, walk away, and think no more about it."), and when he does shoot "th...

camus the-stranger

Rand al'Thor

23:58

@Riker Congrats on becoming a Trusted User, btw. (I only just noticed.)

Zizouz212

Trusted users in private beta? o_O

Transcript for