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5:00 PM
@Skooba worse ;-)
@DForck42 so i shouldn't even get started on identification question then?
@Skooba for id, just make it a QUALITY question. answer these as best to your ability in your question: who, what, when, where, why, and how.
@Skooba Hehe!
@DForck42 I think that he is talking about M&TV's ID as a counter to your saying things about SFF... ;)
@steelersquirrel ahh. i wasn't active on the site when we had the re-dress for id
the standards in place now are a lot better than they were, but I'm still wary of the site getting swamped with them
but I'm also afraid we might kill the site if we axed them overnight
and it's too recent to start a new discussion on it anyway
@DForck42 No, on the contrary. <note to self: stop talking right now>
5:11 PM
i think shogs post points out that sff never had more than 30% ID, which is why its never been an issue for SFF. while other sites end up having far more IDs and far less questions over all
@NapoleonWilson lol
@Himarm yeah, and it's just become such a hot button topic, from both sides
So...the weather in Portland has been great the past few days... :P
@steelersquirrel Oh god, I hope so. Now awful ice storms anymore?
@NapoleonWilson Modified question posted. It does end up being more about Hamilton than Macbeth, but it also depends on the interpretation of Shakespeare.
@NapoleonWilson Nope! It's actually clear and beautiful right now! I actually drove Sheena to work today!!!
5:16 PM
@steelersquirrel Yay! \o/
(...referring to Sheena.)
No. Not topless at 6:30 am. Bummer ;)
lol topless
@HDE226868 too many commas to keep that middle paragraph straight in my hed...
I might take the top down later this afternoon...watch out!
5:18 PM
@steelersquirrel OMG is has 50-60 degrees here
@DForck42 I can only assure you that Marx is worse. But I've edited it to try to improve that.
@steelersquirrel Betty is conservative girl, her top is firmly attached :P
@Skooba Cool! It's not that warm here, but the sun is out at least! I know that the sun won't be out in Pittsburgh for a while due to the outcome of the game :'(
@Skooba Hehehe! I find it odd that you would have a conservative car ;)
@HDE226868 clearer, but now it seems that you've really got two, separate questions. one about why he does the thing in Hamilton, and another about who is the whats-it in macbeth
but that could just be me misreading it too
@DForck42 But the latter is probably down to personal interpretation. So he chooses the former's interpretation and asks why it differs from his.
5:22 PM
Q: Why does Hamilton oppose Aaron Burr in the election of 1800?

HDE 226868In the song "The Election of 1800" in the musical Hamilton, Alexander Hamilton chooses to endorse Thomas Jefferson for president, instead of Aaron Burr. This surprises, Burr, among others, who wonders in the next song why Hamilton chose Thomas Jefferson, his enemy A man he’s despised since ...

its a wonderful raining and 33 out here
@steelersquirrel she'll put the speed on, but if you don't have the right touch she bites
@NapoleonWilson k
Or's wadda thought i' is, a' least.
Why would that have a Shakespeare tag on it?
5:24 PM
@NapoleonWilson had to read that twice to get the accent
@steelersquirrel cause they want authors tags on lit apparently, even though i mildly disagree
But, how is Shakespeare the author of that musical?
@steelersquirrel He's not, but the question is significantly about Macbeth and its relation to the musical.
@steelersquirrel author of Macbeth, which is also in question
Shouldn't the author of the play have a tag then as well?
@steelersquirrel yup
this is why author tags are BS, imho
5:26 PM
@steelersquirrel For consistency's sake, yes. But well, since I'd already prefer the Shakespeare tag to not be there, I'll leave that to someone else. ;-)
<confused squirrel>
Honestly, I always go by author. That's the first thing that I would search for on this site is the author tag, but that's just me.
i always look for specific works/movies/etc
or look through newest
Just the other day I was looking for a Thomas Wolfe tag and looking through the Shakespeare tag. I wouldn't look for a specific work.
@steelersquirrel They have it admittedly a little easier here, since in the field of movies and in contrast to the majority of literature (well, depending on your definition of that again ;-)) the director is by far not the only contributor to a work.
But if you would transpose that tagging policy over to Movies & TV, you already get into the whole director vs screenwriter vs anyone else controversy to begin with.
So if it would work anywhere, then on Literature.
@NapoleonWilson Well, yeah. I wouldn't search for a movie off of a director name...but, I only search for stuff here by author tags.
5:39 PM
And I fell into that trap already, too. Since I admittedly did not consider a poem significant enough to serve as the only tag for my question, so I had to resort to an author tag, which in retrospect might have been a bad idea, though.
Why is that a bad idea?
But with my other question on the other hand, I felt it downright overkill to smash two works and two authors onto it.
So yeah, it's a mess.
@steelersquirrel As I agree with many of the counter-arguments to author tags.
Oh, okay.
But as said, that might as well be clouded by coming from a site where they make much less sense.
@NapoleonWilson it's not super clear cut on lit either, though
A: When should I use an author tag?

DForck42Please note that I've written my answer as if the question is asking about requiring author tags on questions. IMHO Author tags should only be used when the question is about the author in relation to their work. Requiring people to tag every question with the author, or authors, of the wor...

5:42 PM
@DForck42 I know.
I don't know. I am just looking at it from say someone who isn't familiar with the SE system at all...like my sister. She wanted to look at stuff underneath Poe, Shakespeare and Virginia Woolfe. She would search by author rather than by works.
That way you wouldn't have to take stabs in the dark on what works actually have questions about them...right?
That's one of the primary pro-arguments indeed.
5:48 PM
My avatar is changed to awesome and excited coffee drinking squirrel!! Now, I just need to somehow incorporate my steeler logo onto it!
<waits for Napoleon to freak out>
@steelersquirrel Wut?
See ^^
5:48 PM
@steelersquirrel :'(
maybe floating on the coffee?
@steelersquirrel yeah, the problem is that's not quite how SE is designed to be used. it's more about either helping solve problems, or letting people on particular subjects (in this care literary works) find those. authors/directors/what have you are a level or two amove on the meta scale for what SE was intended for
honestly, if we could just have grouped tags, that'd fix SO many issues
@steelersquirrel Does it at least not have that effin' hat occluding its excitedly bright eyes?
but i believe that request got shot down cause we're not SO
5:50 PM
@NapoleonWilson No. No hat! The squirrel is very excited to be seeing a cup of coffee!
or rather just ignored
Q: A proposal for tag hierarchy on SO

DVKExecutive summary Introduction of sparse hierarchy (partial inheritance relation) into the set of tags on SO, in order to allow more efficient question organization/filtering/tagging (especially via "Interesting"/"Ignored" mechanism). The proposal is designed to achieve its goals while adhering...

@DForck42 Indeed. I also don't think SO has much to fight with the godamn 25-character limit. (But at least in Literature we might have another combatant in that fight, as long as they don't do away with work tags.) ;-)
@DForck42 I see your point. It's just that one is more apt to look for a particular author here than for a particular director on M&TV. Like...if one wanted to answer Harry Potter questions, wouldn't they rather go to the JK Rowling tag than look for every title of Harry Potter book?
Q: We need meta tags to be able to organize and search tags easily

Piotr DobrogostWe need meta tags to more easily describe our preferences. Current mechanism (regular expressions) is not sufficient because related tags (semantic issue) don't have to have related names (syntax issue). Problems that would be solved by meta tags; (...) If someone has set up their filter f...

that one was declied by jeff
@steelersquirrel Well, they use harry-potter on everything Potter anyway. ;-)
5:54 PM
@steelersquirrel i don't disagree that it's nicer to have it, i just disagree with making it required
Yeah. I guess that was a bad example. I would go for a Hemingway tag rather than trying to find any titles to his books.
@DForck42 Which is the problem, though. Once you tell people they can search for an author by tag, they'll expect that to work, and not just on some questions where people added the author tag on their own taste.
<continues to beat dead horse>
@steelersquirrel lol
So you either want author tags (on non-author questions) or you don't. Having an anything goes attitude towards tagging leads to...I'd name a site, but I'll just say...a mess.
5:57 PM
Name it! Name it! :P
I'm outta here. See you guys :)
@steelersquirrel Have fun!
@steelersquirrel Cutesplosion Sweetsageddon!
@steelersquirrel :-(
(and now, i bet 1 rep, someone will star that)
@steelersquirrel I will have to post on biology.SE but I'm almost certain coffee is bad for squirrels
6:13 PM
Starring is like serial downvoting. Talking about it doesn't have a huge chance of making it go away (wasn't me, though).
@NapoleonWilson I proposed that, but it seems like it's not something people really want.
@Emrakul Yeah, I upvoted that. Normally I am strongly against the use of author tags on all questions. But I also realize that there are better arguments for it on Literature than there are on the sites I'm used to. So I'm not that fussed either.
@steelersquirrel I've seen people argue that the words to a song should be on topic, but not the music; that the text of a play should be on topic, but not how it appears on stage; that interactive fiction should be on topic, but not questions about its interactivity... some people object to a question being on topic once the words leave the page. But these examples clearly don't make internal sense, so I don't think it's that simple.
@NapoleonWilson I'm pretty ambivalent, too, honestly.
6:52 PM
@Emrakul I tend to agree with that... "some people object to a question being on topic once the words leave the page." especially since it is really an adaptation, even if faithful can not impart 100% of original context. Plays are the tricky part because they were always meant to be on stage.
are non-fiction books and their influences on-topic?
Q: What types of non-fiction are on topic?

SkoobaHaving read the current tour the "ask / don't ask" is short an vague. Now I would expect that since we are currently in private beta. However, to me a big definition on scope would be a debate between fiction and non-fiction. Ask Specific issues with literature Real problems or que...

epic thanks
still in discussion i would say
consensus seems to be no though
at least not unless it has a plot
aka the story of somebody's life and how he did blah is on-topic but not much else
6:57 PM
well yeah. I mean biographies and such.
hm okay
the book in question is a history book and I'm asking about the influence of a specific poem on a part of the book
@steelersquirrel also get a mod to refresh your chat profile, I still don't see the new avatar :(
you don't want encyclopedias to be on topic
@Riker by history book, do you mean text book?
this one, it's a long-ass book about a ton of stuff
fwiw what I'm asking about is a recurring element in a chapter, which is the act of referring to the islamic empire of the 11th-16th centuries as "The Tower of Darkness"
apparently the same phrase is used in the Rubaiyat
@Riker well that doesn't seem to be literary. That would like asking why Japan was called "The Land of the Rising Sun"
my question would be "is there any direct evidence the author took this motif from the rubaiyat"
it's not really why it's called that, it's more of "did the author do this act because of this reason"
7:03 PM
Q: How accurate are Rick Riordan's portrayals of ancient myths?

YannisThe story of Cadmus and Harmonia as presented in Rick Riordan's Percy Jackson's Greek Gods, is unique in claiming that Harmonia became mortal: Cadmus wasn’t sure he should be stealing the dragon’s dental work, especially if he was already on Ares’s naughty list, but he did as Athena commanded...

@Riker We are still in private beta, ask it and see what happens
cool will do in a bit
if nothing else it may prompt more discussion on meta
Yay, we have a main feed bot!
7:05 PM
pretty slow though
about 30 min slow
Better than nothing
Wow, that question of mine really gathered some views
Q: What is torrent encryption and does it make my traffic anonymous?

GallifreyanThis question is inspired by this article (in Russian) about a website called I Know What You Download. From what I understand, they scan the DHT networks and display torrents that any given IP participated in, and although it is sometimes inaccurate, it can provide data on Internet usage, and th...

I thought they'd downvote it to hell
@DVK-on-Ahch-To Hehehehe! Awwww. I'm just messin' with ya! :)
@steelersquirrel it was probably me
@DVK-on-Ahch-To Coffee is a must have in any squirrel's diet! ;)
@Emrakul Hmmmm... I don't know. I would just think that if it's a song, then it should be asked on the music site. That sounds pretty simple to me, but that's just me.
@DForck42 Probably you?
@steelersquirrel that starred the frowny face
7:17 PM
@NapoleonWilson Awwwww. See! That squirrel is frigging awesome!!
@DForck42 Ahhhh...gotcha! I don't star faces anyways. Napoleon always used to in TSR, but it annoyed everyone ;)
Why didn't our chat get one of these?
in Mos Eisley, 1 min ago, by Stack Exchange
posted on January 26, 2017

On January 24, 2017 starting at 17:53 UTC, we experienced system degradation (read only) followed by a site outage. The Stack Exchange network went into read-only mode for approximately 5 minutes before being offline for 12 minutes. It took us 2 minutes to notice the issue, 5 minutes to locate the source of the issue and 10 minutes to get service restored. Approximately 3.5 seconds worth of dat

@Skooba posted:
Q: Did the author base this element off of the Rubaiyat?

RikerIn a non-fiction history book, Millenium: A History of the Last Thousand Years, a (temporarily) recurring element is "The Tower of Darkness". Chapter 3 is even titled that, and it's fairly clearly referring to the Islamic empire or caliph and its rule of a significant portion of Eurasia. When s...

@Gallifreyan private beta thing?
@Riker all sites were down, private beta or not.
ye but maybe our chat didn't get it because private beta
@steelersquirrel PETA people will be here shortly to discuss their opinion of the topic :)
@steelersquirrel I wasn't actually sad - I was star-baiting!
7:32 PM
> DVK-on-Ahch-To Coffee
sounds like DVK is on ahch-to so (s)he can "coffee"
@Riker blue milk. Best in the Galaxy
@DVK-on-Ahch-To Hahahaha! Yeah. Squirrel abuse is running rampant around here ;)
@DVK-on-Ahch-To too many ts
@steelersquirrel idea: set PETA on the patriots
tell them the patriots are abusing squirrels and making them depressed
the lawsuit should prevent them from entering into the super bowl
Hey!!! Good idea!! ;)
@NapoleonWilson noice
desktop notifications show your avatar when it's edited, not DVK's ;)
7:44 PM
@Riker What? What did Napoleon do?
edited DVK's message to fix the link
Oh, okay. I'm glad you guys know what's going on ;)
seriously though, feedback on this?
Q: Did the author base this element off of the Rubaiyat?

RikerIn a non-fiction history book, Millenium: A History of the Last Thousand Years, a (temporarily) recurring element is "The Tower of Darkness". Chapter 3 is even titled that, and it's fairly clearly referring to the Islamic empire or caliph and its rule of a significant portion of Eurasia. When s...

it's about analysis of a non-fiction book
7:51 PM
I got nothing ;)
yeah, but feed about it being on/off topic?
Er... I don't know. I'm still trying to wrap my head around people thinking that songs are on topic ;)
@Riker i dont' see any inherent issues
but, i don't know the subject matter at all
7:59 PM
@Riker t-t-t-tROLL in the dungeon!
Q: Did the author base this element off of the Rubaiyat?

RikerIn a non-fiction history book, Millenium: A History of the Last Thousand Years, a (temporarily) recurring element is "The Tower of Darkness". Chapter 3 is even titled that, and it's fairly clearly referring to the Islamic empire or caliph and its rule of a significant portion of Eurasia. When s...

Q: Was this information on Mr Radley ever revealed?

CHEESEFrom To Kill a Mockingbird: Mr. Radley walked to town at eleven-thirty every morning and came back promptly at twelve, sometimes carrying a brown paper bag that the neighborhood assumed contained the family groceries. I never knew how old Mr. Radley made his living— Jem said he “bought ...

@steelersquirrel Google "Vysotsky" (assuming there's enough meaningful material in English). Basically, song lyrics is more or less poetry. Much of it is good quality literature, by any criteria you may want to use. (yes, there's useless lyrics. But Sturgeon's law says there's useless everything)
I don't think anyone (that I saw) argues that songs are ontopic outside the lyrics.
@steelersquirrel My personal opinion is that it's more a matter of the question you're asking than the content you're asking about.
i.e. if you're asking about the musical structure as it pertains to the narrative the music is trying to tell, it should be on topic.
8:07 PM
But not everyone shares that thought. [shrug]
@DVK-on-Ahch-To ^
And that makes a lot of stuff on topic, which makes people kind of uncomfortable. Are movies on topic? Are video games on topic? Under this line of thought, yes, if (and only if) your question pertains to narrative and message.
@Emrakul It also would make oral tradition on topic, regardless of whether it happens to be accompanied by other things as part of the method of communicating the narrative. (But @BESW can share more on that than I.)
@doppelgreener Yeah. And I think that would be a nice thing for this site.
I'm still clueless why people refrained from asking film, song and video game questions in the definition phase of the site, though.
8:14 PM
@NapoleonWilson because by default when people think literature they think books, specifically fiction
i assume, anyway
@DForck42 Indeed. (I'm also not actually clueless.) ;-)
@NapoleonWilson I'm not so sure ;-)
What would be the point of even having other SE sites, then? Everything is pretty much "the written word ". If I receive a jury duty summons and want to ask about it, why would I ask on SE Law when I could ask here...since it's a letter in writing? That's what I am trying to understand.
@Emrakul Problem is, experts here are unlikely to know much about musical structure, barring lucky coincidences. Even if it pertains to narrative, it's still a musical expertise.
@NapoleonWilson Do you know what Hogwarts motto is? (that might be an answer to the question you asked)
@DVK-on-Ahch-To No.
8:18 PM
@steelersquirrel The difference isn't in "written word," it's in "narrative." A jury summons isn't trying to present a story or draw a narrative.
The way I've drawn this is actually quite specific, and includes pretty much only questions relevant to understanding narrative forms and structure.
@DVK-on-Ahch-To Just because we don't necessarily have "experts" on the topic doesn't make something off topic. We're not experts on the "classical form" of BPM literature, but this site exists anyway. We're all here to learn.
@Emrakul Sure it is. When you are selected for jury duty, you get a narrative on the particular case you will be hearing. So, would I ask about that here or on SE law?
@Emrakul It's less "do we have experts" and more "where are the experts more likely to be found?".
These are the questions that you open yourself up to, imo.
8:22 PM
@steelersquirrel I think this argument is a straw-man. Law isn't narrative.
'"classical form" of BPM literature' experts are more likely to be found here. Musical forms experts, on Music.SE
Ultimately any question of topic is going to, at some point, come down to "I know it when I see it." It always will, no matter where you are on Stack Exchange.
@Emrakul So, we should post an answer saying "Rule 34" on all scope Meta questions. Problem solved.
I would just hate to see this site fail for not having a clear understanding of what literature actually is and making it more complicated than it needs to be. That's all.
Q: Was Mark Twain actually almost a millionaire twice over, before he became famous?

CascabelSupposedly Mark Twain once said: "a gold or silver mine is a hole in the ground with a liar on top". In the frontier tale "Roughing It", he claims he was almost a millionaire twice, but he sold his shares before the mines hit it rich. Did this really happen, or is it another case of a tal...

8:33 PM
@steelersquirrel If it does fail for a poor understanding of literature, that, in itself, will be a valuable lesson for what to do with future sites to have them succeed -- for a potential example, "call them something other than Literature".
@doppelgreener What was the reason this site failed in the past?
@steelersquirrel I haven't read the meta analysis on that yet.
Have you? There'd be some irony if it was, in fact, because the users in that iteration couldn't define what literature was. O_O
No. I just know that it failed in the past from people talking about it. I don't know why, though. Yes, that would be rather ironic ;)
8:37 PM
@steelersquirrel ID and recommendation, as much as I've heard.
Shog9 did a breakdown of it that I can't find right now.
Hmmmm...okay :)
Q: Why did Literature fail?

GillesIn the interest of not repeating the same mistakes if another book- or literature-related site is proposed: why did Literature Stack Exchange fail? What should we learn from this? How can we avoid repeating the same mistakes?

A: What do we think about story identification?

Shog9Identification questions are like... The cabbage, radishes and shredded carrots that some sushi shops put on the platter before stacking up the meat & rice. They make the plate look nice and full, and they're something to chew on once you've eaten all the meat... ...But no one goes to a sushi r...

@Emrakul ^ second link may be what you're thinking of
Both, actually! Nice find!
9:08 PM
Been out all day, had relatives from the States here. What'd I miss?
I have another Library of Babel question incoming.
9:22 PM
@DForck42 The other answer to the original Lit question about riddles said:
> This <a href="http://www.darkwinner.com/literature/roadAnalysis.html" rel="nofollow">site</a> presented a very good analysis of the poem, but there is only one positive part of the poem that he offered:

<p>"Making all the difference" suggests a "good thing." It's a sigh of contentment. So in the last stanza when the narrator says he took the road less traveled by, that results in a good thing.</p>

<p>In answer to your title, he posts this:
>This is the type of poem that really seems to express what a lot of people feel. As a result, many people zealously defen
@Mithrandir Could you clean that up?
How do you find good poetry and short stories to read?
Nope, ran out of time.
@Mithrandir Okay.
@Benjamin I go out and go to the bookstore, and I get magazines.
@Mithrandir Which magazines specifically?
9:26 PM
IDK, I read kid magazines. Cricket, and things like that.
I remember Cricket!
Short stories are in The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction.
...I asked a question about one of those on SFF and the author showed up to answer it.
It was one of the few kids' magazines that ever had anything which seemed to be about me.
@Mithrandir I'm confused as to how this answer about poems is related to the riddle question
@DForck42 I have no idea.
9:27 PM
@Mithrandir lol
I pulled it from the data dump.
sounds like there was a data corruption, or something
I find new reading material partly by subscribing to feeds from subjects and people I like, and they make recommendations.
Q: Does it have to be those two spells, or would any combination of "impossible" spells work?

MithrandirIn the July/August 2012 issue of The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction, they ran a story entitled "Wearaway and Flambeau" by Matthew Hughes. In it, Hurdevant puts two spells on Raffalon: Ixtlix's Sprightly Wearaway and Chunt's Descending Flambeau. When they are used in combination with a tr...

...I killed the conversation again...
@Mithrandir I am just writing some questions/
9:39 PM
@Benjamin About what?
@Mithrandir The Library of Babel and The Cemetery of The Forgotten. I will probably soon be asking about The Total Library and The Necklace.
Out of curiosity, did anyone else gain or lose rep from a user being removed?
...I've heard of them, but never read the, Well, good - we always need new questions :P
But I think I might be being serially upvoted, I was considering raising a custom flag and having the CMs look into it.
@Mithrandir By whom?
@HDE226868 No.
@Benjamin No idea.
Oh no, Riker pulled ahead. Must find another question to ask...
9:43 PM
@Mithrandir On what measure?
@Benjamin Rep :P
We keep getting ahead of each other...
That was a quick accept...
@Mithrandir A day later, really?
@Benjamin No, I mean that it said answered 36 seconds ago and it showed accepted :P
@HDE226868 I did
That's all.
9:52 PM
Q: How do real-world languages exist in "The Library of Babel"?

BenjaminIn The Library of Babel by Jorge Luis Borges, the speaker tells us, He showed his find to a wandering decoder who told him the lines were written in Portuguese; others said they were Yiddish. Within a century, the language was established: a Samoyedic Lithuanian dialect of Guarani, with class...

Q: How do people eat in "The Library of Babel"?

BenjaminIn The Library of Babel by Jorge Luis Borges, we learn that there are hallways in between rooms, which have bathroom and sleeping facilities when the speaker says, To the left and right of the hallway there are two very small closets. In the first, one may sleep standing up; in the other, sat...

@Bookworm Yay, my first round of questions arrived.
@Bookworm I keep seeing weird questions about this work
@DForck42 They are probably all from me.
@Benjamin btw, you've asked ~15% of all the questions so far...
@Bookworm Don't you know that you're not allowed to eat in the library? ;)
9:58 PM
@DForck42 Of all questions?
@Benjamin yup
that won't include deleted, of course
@DForck42 How did you calculate the total number of questions?
You've asked 52 quesions.
There are 347 total questions.
@Mithrandir But, where did you get that number?
@Benjamin 52- your profile
347 - the new questions page
@DForck42 Okay, this is the number I was wondering about.
52 is 14.985590778098% of 347
@Benjamin :-D
10:23 PM
@Riker hai
10:35 PM
@Riker boom
@Mithrandir where's the kaboom?
@DForck42 kablooie
@Mithrandir ahh
That better? :P
I haven't received many good answers to this meta question that I asked yesterday. Perhaps you all have some input on the topic you'd like to provide?
10:47 PM
I need one more vote to be the first to get 4 Enlightened badges...
I personally don't like language tags, but no specific reasons...
@fi12 wow, you have one deleted answer there and another with a score of
@Mithrandir yeah, that's why I'm asking here :)
@fi12 replied
@fi12 sorry for the terse response, tired and grumpy
and tired of the tag discussions
The SFF tag discussions have been taking years and we're still all mixed up...
@Mithrandir we've got 17 questions spanning 8 days of being open... that's a bit over 2/day
Yep. One of the chat rooms created for the SFF discussions was named Tag Wars :P
10:57 PM
@Mithrandir lol
honestly, 99% of the bs arguments could be EASILY fixed if we could have meta tags, or a rollup tag, or whatever you want to call it
@fi12 I've dared to step up and post an answer.
@HDE226868 Seems legit.
There's very good reasons that tags need to describe questions, not context.
@BESW Precisely.
@BESW basically why I disagree with requiring authors to be tagged in all the things
I considered searchability as a criterion, but I don't think that's a strong argument in this case.
11:05 PM
(And you guys probably know by now I'm usually all about context.)
@DForck42 Yeah, author/title tags... I want to see how that plays out in the long run.
I suspect it'll be a case of it being so "common sense" to do it that regardless of actual usefulness the effort of curating them will be more cost than just letting it happen.
@DForck42 I buy that one because I think that it's possible for someone to be an expert in the works of [Author X]. I think that fails in the language case.
But I'm interested to see how it all works out.
Because above all else, tagging fails when it's not obvious how to tag.
Tagging's about getting every person who asks a question to do a modicum of cataloguing, so that we don't have high-rep users spending their days on grunt-level curation.
If our tagging system doesn't make sense to most querents most of the time, we've lost the labour battle.
That's a major reason tagging's supposed to be an emergent folksonomy: let the community tag as it sees fit and only intervene when there's a demonstrable problem happening rather than a problem we anticipate.
That way when we do have to prune back the wild growth, we've got a good sense of what makes sense to the community.
Tags are kinda like green beans: you leave them alone until they're pulling down the trellis.
11:26 PM
@HDE @Mith @Riker Can we undelete this question?
It could be on-topic, and it looks like the OP has deleted it after some negative comments from a single user.
We don't want to chase people away from Lit at this early stage :-/
@Randal'Thor >_< I wish valorum could be a little nicer in his comments
I understand, but he could say it a tad more polite than that
What do you think of this kind of answer?
A: How do people eat in "The Library of Babel"?

Rand al'ThorLike many of Borges's tales, The Library of Babel is meant more as a thought experiment than a realistic story. Don't overthink it. There's no mention anywhere in the story of where the librarians get food and how they eat - or, for that matter, of how the plumbing for the toilets is operated an...

I don't even know what to think of this kind of question. ;-)
So yeah, the answer looks good.
11:34 PM
On the one hand, it's basically the only sensible answer to the question. On the other hand, I can see how you might say it doesn't really answer the question.
@Randal'Thor Needs support for its claims about Borges.
@BESW The claims that the story was meant more as a thought experiment than a realistic story?
I thought that was ... kinda obvious.
"Many of Borges' tales are mostly thought experiments," "Typical Borges stories are written for their wacky ideas rather than their realism."
So much so that it's quite hard to justify!
Okay, so here's a good rule of thumb:
If my answer to a question boils down to "Your question doesn't understand obvious things," then I need to re-evaluate my understanding of obvious... because it's pretty obvious somebody didn't think it was obvious. Or, you know, the question wouldn't exist.
In other words, if someone asks a question to which the answer is "common sense," then a good answer will assume it's not common sense for the person who asked--and so will try to explain it as clearly and deeply as possible.
11:39 PM
Which he seems to have done.
He's made statements, yes.
But they're based on context the querent may not have.
That's why he explains it in his answer.
Give some examples of other Borges stories with similar issues, maybe?
It's all generalities and "trust me, I know what I'm talking about."
I mean, I think it's a correct answer. But it's not a really good answer so long as the only support for "the spirit it was intended: as a thought experiment and philosophical exercise" is Rand's say-so.
Hmm, this is a good point.
If it's a close read answer, show the close reading.
It you're basing it off reviews and critical opinion, share those.
If Borges has written about his intent, point us at the letter/essay/introduction where he says it.
11:42 PM
@BESW Which is difficult when my claims are based more on a general gut feeling after having read a dozen Borges stories than anything specific in the text of any one of them.
Yes. I agree.
I guess I could list some more examples, as you say.
It's very difficult to translate "I just feel it" into a good answer.
It's a skill we're learning.
Or go into more detail in listing practicalities in The Library of Babel which haven't been addressed in the text.
Human reproduction was another one I thought of. How does the population of librarians sustain itself? If they have children, where and how do they raise those children?
The fact that issues like this aren't addressed anywhere in the text is itself evidence that the author didn't intend for us to care about them.
Indeed. It's just really hard to grasp what the asker is actually after. It just looks like a question thrown out for the sake of it and missing the point. In that regard it's really not that easy to answer.
11:45 PM
@Randal'Thor That'd be a good "close reading" kind of answer.
@NapoleonWilson Then we should be voting to close it as unclear.
It kinda reminds me of video game questions that poke at game design from a lore standpoint. It's hard to answer those, and this kinda seems to fall in the same bucket.
You could as well ask why the Man of the Book didn't use the time turner to teach all the other librarians how the library works.
(Also I've been trying to think of more things to ask, but I'm on a non-fiction kick right now and that's hard to ask about)
11:57 PM
Now this is actually a much better question than the other one.
It seems like the same kind of "meh, why fixate on such a silly issue" question, but in fact it's answerable very much in the spirit of the story.
Q: What's the meaning of the ending of "Thirteen Reasons Why"?

christieOn my audiobook version, Hannah says the words "I'm sorry" and "Thank you" on sides A and B of tape 7. Why did she say "I'm sorry" and "Thank you"?

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